No agenda here, aside from being generally interested in brownstone and downtown Brooklyn. Just saw this on the Streeteasy splash-page: www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/294791-condo-75-smith-street-downtown-brooklyn-brooklyn PRICE HISTORY: 1/21/06 Previously listed by Corcoran for $1,050,000 6/13/08 Listed by Corcoran at $1,050,000 6/17/08 Corcoran listing unavailable at $1,050,000 7/10/08 Price... [more]
No agenda here, aside from being generally interested in brownstone and downtown Brooklyn. Just saw this on the Streeteasy splash-page:
www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/294791-condo-75-smith-street-downtown-brooklyn-brooklyn
PRICE HISTORY:
1/21/06 Previously listed by Corcoran for $1,050,000
6/13/08 Listed by Corcoran at $1,050,000
6/17/08 Corcoran listing unavailable at $1,050,000
7/10/08 Price decreased to $999,000
10/02/08 Corcoran listing sold
11/20/08 Sale closed for $700,000
11/25/08 Price decreased to $825,000
Beyond the schizoid price history, it *might* be an interesting comp for the downtown Brooklyn condo market. I say might because I haven't actually seen any the units in The Smith myself, so I don't know how its interior compares to buildings like Toren, Oro, etc.
It's also interesting because The Smith was closing units well in advance of the meltdown so price movement there tracks the prime pricing-to-meltdown period.
So, this is a 2 bed, 2 bath, 1,200-sq.-ft. "luxury" condo in a location with potential. It closed for $700,000 on 11/20/08. Similar units in the building (same floor and identical or similar layouts) appear to have closed for $1 million+ just last May and similar units are available now, asking at, or north of, $800,000.
I'm interested in others' thoughts on the relevancy of a sale like this to the area. Here are The Smith's advantages/disadvantages as I see them.
DISADVANTAGES:
--The Smith is a condo/hotel/retail building. The lower floors are supposed to be operated as a hotel (not sure if they know who will run it) and the retail space is unclaimed after 2 years.
--Location: it's right on the corner of Atlantic and Smith, a very busy, noisy location with zero charm. It's also right next to the Brooklyn House of Detention, which keeps threatening to open again as an operative jail.
--Location: It's in downtown Brooklyn. Again, no charm, dead as dirt at night (but this is true of all locations in DB)
--The building: It's no beauty queen.
--Views: The building's short, and has no views of Manhattan. Views toward Brooklyn, however, could be nice as there are few tall buildings and you're looking Southeast, which could be nice light.
--Potentially shoddy construction -- again, no first-hand knowledge, but the buzz on Brownstoner was sometimes critical of the finishes, etc.
ADVANTAGES:
--Price: This sale is WAY lower than comparable space in other downtown Brooklyn new condos.
--Location: Despite its drawbacks, the building is quite close to the best parts of Brooklyn Heights/Cobble Hill -- shops and restaurants on Smith, Court and Atlantic; Trader Joe's, Sahadi's, etc. This would make it much more immediately convenient than Toren, Oro, etc.
Transportation: Like all downtown Brooklyn condos, it's close to, like, 10 different subway lines -- 2/3, 4/5, R, M, A/C, F, G and this location is actually better for that than the buildings on Flatbush (shorter walks, more options).
Any opinions here? At first, I said "$700,000? Wow." But I can see the place might have some major flaws ...
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Response by JKB
over 17 years ago
Posts: 162
Member since: Nov 2007
Oh, one more disdvantage: I see this is a Boymelgreen project.
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Response by cleanslate
over 17 years ago
Posts: 346
Member since: Mar 2008
The Brooklyn Detention Center re-opened. Not sure if it affected the price, but I know they also want to get rid of the few remaining units and they happened to be the top-floor units and duplexes.
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
Am I reading this right? A more than 30% loss?
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Response by JKB
over 17 years ago
Posts: 162
Member since: Nov 2007
Yep, that's right. But cleanslate makes a good point. Most of this building appears to have sold, and the developer may be trying to cash out fast on the remaining few duplex units (the 12th floor may, in fact, be the top - it's not a huge building).
No matter how you look at it, though, the people who paid more than $1 million for almost identical places can't be too happy. I can't believe that the price difference is anything but the shift to a serious buyers' market. The only other justification for such a drop would be the difference in views (good toward the southeast and Brooklyn, the backsides of taller, ugly buildings to the north and west).
But that still wouldn't justify a 30% discount (and the other remaining units are discounted 20-25% just at ask).
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Response by broadwayron
over 17 years ago
Posts: 271
Member since: Sep 2006
10/02/08 Corcoran listing sold
11/20/08 Sale closed for $700,000
11/25/08 Price decreased to $825,000
I don't get that list of events. So, on 10/2 it "sold".
Then, they closed roughly 6 weeks later (which, is pretty quick).
Then 5 days later, the price "decreased" to 125K over the closing price? Huh?
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
I saw an article on how brokers are raising priced right before they take apartments off market to "help" the data.
Probably same kind of lying broker scum here.
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Response by JKB
over 17 years ago
Posts: 162
Member since: Nov 2007
I agree with nyc10022. If you have access to price history on Streeteasy, this kind of tactic doesn't work. But for buyers who don't dig a little, a broker move like this makes it look like the sale price was only $125,000 less-than-ask, i.e. less than the $825,000 Corcoran last posted, after the sale actually closed.
It can even have an effect on Streeteasy. Take a look at the "Sale" page for this property:
Unless you click through to the original Streeteasy listing, you see only a last-ask of $825,000 and a sale of $700,000. Far from the truth ...
One of the great new features of Streeteasy is that they now list Previous Listings for properties where they're available. You can see if there was an attempted or successful sale years earlier, what the ask/price was, and who had the listing. It's good info that creates a richer picture of the property's sale history.
Don't know if Streeteasy mines ACRIS for this info, or if it's only available on listings that are in the Streeteasy database. It'd be great if they eventually can connect all current listings to previous sales in ACRIS. ACRIS has actual, recorded sales that sometimes go back to 2005, and maybe further (I've only seen records as far back as 2005).
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
Good insight.
But, no, none of this completely dishonestly from the brokers surprises me. They deserve to rot in hell. Think of all the real financial losses they've caused already.
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Response by broadwayron
over 17 years ago
Posts: 271
Member since: Sep 2006
Wow, that's real cheesy.
I had a feeling it was something like that, but didn't think a price change would be accepted after a "sold" item was posted.
thanks
Oh, one more disdvantage: I see this is a Boymelgreen project.
The Brooklyn Detention Center re-opened. Not sure if it affected the price, but I know they also want to get rid of the few remaining units and they happened to be the top-floor units and duplexes.
Am I reading this right? A more than 30% loss?
Yep, that's right. But cleanslate makes a good point. Most of this building appears to have sold, and the developer may be trying to cash out fast on the remaining few duplex units (the 12th floor may, in fact, be the top - it's not a huge building).
No matter how you look at it, though, the people who paid more than $1 million for almost identical places can't be too happy. I can't believe that the price difference is anything but the shift to a serious buyers' market. The only other justification for such a drop would be the difference in views (good toward the southeast and Brooklyn, the backsides of taller, ugly buildings to the north and west).
But that still wouldn't justify a 30% discount (and the other remaining units are discounted 20-25% just at ask).
10/02/08 Corcoran listing sold
11/20/08 Sale closed for $700,000
11/25/08 Price decreased to $825,000
I don't get that list of events. So, on 10/2 it "sold".
Then, they closed roughly 6 weeks later (which, is pretty quick).
Then 5 days later, the price "decreased" to 125K over the closing price? Huh?
I saw an article on how brokers are raising priced right before they take apartments off market to "help" the data.
Probably same kind of lying broker scum here.
I agree with nyc10022. If you have access to price history on Streeteasy, this kind of tactic doesn't work. But for buyers who don't dig a little, a broker move like this makes it look like the sale price was only $125,000 less-than-ask, i.e. less than the $825,000 Corcoran last posted, after the sale actually closed.
It can even have an effect on Streeteasy. Take a look at the "Sale" page for this property:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/775859
Unless you click through to the original Streeteasy listing, you see only a last-ask of $825,000 and a sale of $700,000. Far from the truth ...
One of the great new features of Streeteasy is that they now list Previous Listings for properties where they're available. You can see if there was an attempted or successful sale years earlier, what the ask/price was, and who had the listing. It's good info that creates a richer picture of the property's sale history.
Don't know if Streeteasy mines ACRIS for this info, or if it's only available on listings that are in the Streeteasy database. It'd be great if they eventually can connect all current listings to previous sales in ACRIS. ACRIS has actual, recorded sales that sometimes go back to 2005, and maybe further (I've only seen records as far back as 2005).
Good insight.
But, no, none of this completely dishonestly from the brokers surprises me. They deserve to rot in hell. Think of all the real financial losses they've caused already.
Wow, that's real cheesy.
I had a feeling it was something like that, but didn't think a price change would be accepted after a "sold" item was posted.
thanks