Are high end appliances worth it for resell value?

More info needed: what type of apt? what is you time line for moving. A 10 year old Sub-Zero may not impress any buyer in 2019. What is finish level and condition of rest of apt? My feeling is appliances should be somewhat consistent with rest of the place or it is just weird. That said, if the rest of the place is pretty high end, don't cheap out on the appliances.

That's funny. "As far as our use we don't care and can use basic whites like in grandma's house."
That is what 90% of my buyers would say about the kitchen. It always pained me to hear as I love to cook and bake. Ah my lucky wife.lol.

I have often wondered when "stainless" would be out? Will it get as tired as the avocado green appliances I grew up with? Kenmore Elite, GE Profile sounds good. Also keep in mind that if your current kitch isn't "blinged out" dropping a big Viking or Sub-Zero in the middle of an 'older" kitch can look....well bad or dare I say tacky.

As far as I'm concerned, stainless was out as soon as it appeared at Home Depot. It had completed a long journey from the mid-1970s raw-loft trend that included discarded commercial fixtures.

alanhart, if stainless is out, then what is the new stainless?

Black.

The industry tried to push other metallics, like bronze and copper, but I don't think it went anywhere.

I think patinaed copper appliances could be really cool in the right setting.

ohhh. Don't bring black back so weird 80's bachelor pad. I saw this in places lke the "Milan" which went Bankrupt in the early 90's.

Honestly, most buyers will completely redo the kitchen to their own taste, so high-end appliances are a bit of a waste. I've looked at apartments with blinged out kitchens and bathrooms (with the attendant asking prices) and rejected them because they're not my cuppa joe. I don't want to pay for a fire-engine red Bertazzoni Pro Series 8-burner gas stove if I'm just gonna junk it and start over...

I'll take grandma's house any day. Oh, and Burkhardt--haven't you gotten the memo? That avocado green stuff is back in style, man!

I ultimately purchased a place in need of renovation because I hated reno jobs other people did and then wanted to sell me at a premium. I've installed stainless in my new kitchen largely because of it's practicality and function--not for its own sake. Refrigerator and DW got custom panels because I didn't want to see stainless or black or anything if I didn't have to. Range is a utilitarian thing and visible from parts of other rooms, so it had to look good but work well. Microwave above range matches range only because to do otherwise would look odd.

My suggestion: just be sure the appliances match and if you like inexpensive white, then get that. New owners can swap them out so simply it is silly.

When you sell, how your kitchen will "play" will depend on what's on the market then, which will depend partly on price point. On the high end -- $2mm plus -- we have been seeing a speeding up of obsolence, so kitchens, which used to last about ten years in fashion/technology terms, now need to be replaced every six-seven. So if you are in that price point, and are staying for a few years, your next buyer will rip the kitchen out anyway.

If you are below that, then you want what your neighbors have. If you're in a building where your competition is going to have $4K stoves, then you want a $4K stove.

If you can only spend $$ on one thing, I'd pick the fridge rather than the stove.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Ali, Burkhardt, etc.: Does there seem to be a new "now"? Do people still buy with customization in mind, and accept the compacted schedule of design-obsolescence? There was a recent (frivolous) NYT article talking about "value" v. "luxury" in kitchen fixtures.

Either way, I agree that you should never renovate with an unspecified buyer in mind.

Sub Zs are energy hogs - only suggestion is go as energy efficient as you can and put in what you like - we're tall so for us freezer on the bottom was key. did it suit the wee ones who bought our place when we sold it - most likely nope but can't fret about the next owners.

I like the mid-level lines much better, KitchenAid, JennAir, some but not all GE Profile, etc. It should just look good with the cabinets/countertops.

Thank you very much for the advice. The whites it is. I do love the counter depth fridge though. Any thoughts on those?

cd fridge? love it.

I agree, the cd fridge is the best.

"Honestly, most buyers will completely redo the kitchen to their own taste, so high-end appliances are a bit of a waste."

totally agree. and also this question is a sign that we are still in bubble mentality. along with the last money magazine that includes an article on resale value of home improvements. the article claims that the value of your home goes up if you change rotten windows for new ones. if the most basic maintenance (that costs that make homeownership a little like a money pit) is viewed as an investment on the value of the house we are still in bubble land IMHO.

As someone who is (or was) looking to buy AND who cooks I can tell you that personally, a Sub Zero, Viking, Mielle, Bosch, etc. anything is a big turn off. The few people I've known who've had stuff like that have had problems and repairs were ridiculous. Just put in something that looks good, will be reliable and, if it breaks, won't cost an arm/leg to fix. Just one person's opinion.

Ditto re: whatever you do looking dated (in the wrong way) in ten years anyway.

A good look can be something that's old but was expensive when new. An old wide white double-oven stove looked great in a Park Ave. kitchen that turned up here recently. A few years ago a Des Artistes apt with 40's/50's kitchen turned up. Or at, say, the Beresford, the original metal cabinets have been a selling point.

Or just leave it however and call it a "cook's kitchen."

Sorry, looking2return, I totally disagree with you that "the few people I've known who've had stuff like that have had problems and repairs were ridiculous." I'm a Sub-Zero fan specifically because they are built to last. My mother has had a fridge-only Sub-Zero for more than 30 years. It has moved houses with her, she has changed out the front panel to blend with decor evolutions, and the thing still works like a charm. Another SZ in the family is now 27 years old. We replaced the compressors on both fridge and freezer about 7 years ago, and it's still chugging along just fine. And ditto on lovely counter-depth fridges. I'll gladly pay the price for this sort of appliance because I don't expect to frivolously redecorate my kitchen every 6-7 years.

alanhart -- I haven't been selling top-end lately (though I do have a $27,500/mo rental) --

in the starter to mid-range, buyers seem to want pretty countertops (there's a slight trend towards composites -- think CaesarStone) and a built-in microwave. A brand-name dishwasher, such as a Miele, and a Sub-Zero fridge are still selling points. A wine fridge (which costs about $250) is a nice sweetener, too. A year ago, my NJ contractor friends were telling me that a pot-filler faucet (also fairly cheap, around $300) was a great sweetener in the suburbs.

But I've never seen anyone comment on the make of one stove vs. another. If you're not renovating in the Wolf stove/double Dacor ovens range, I'm not sure that it matters.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Yes -- the delta in appliances is about 15K (fridge, stove, washer/dryer, DW, Microwave)
It shows that you are not cutting corners every which way...

let me understand better. you are saying that about 15K is the right number for new appliances?

$15K without specifying how many and which appliances is sort of high sounding to me. A Liebherr 30" fridge, Thermador 30" Gas pro-style range, Viking OTR microwave, Bosch DW with delivery and taxes = about $12K.

If you are adding wall ovens, larger fridge or need to go Sub-Zero, or want a Miele instead of Bosch, add a few thou and then I agree: you are at $15K. These will look odd in an Ikea kitchen though.

My take is to make only the improvement in the kitchen that will make a buyer say it's nice and I don't have to change a thing. That means being current, looking good and fitting in with the overall decor. Most buyers aren't buying a place to have a Viking range - they are looking at the majors - location, space, layout, price, etc. The kitchen is a bonus/secondary consideration. So long as it doesn't have to be redone, it really won't play a big part in the equation.

The only pool of buyers that will care as to the brand name of their appliance are (for the most part) a pool of buyers that can afford to redo the kitchen anyway. Trying to anticipate what this small pool of buyers may want, is difficult. Appeal to the masses.

15k is too high, even with brand-name appliances. 10k should buy you a 36" subzero, Miele gas cooktop, oven & d/w.

Counter depth fridges are much more expensive but look great esp in smaller kitchens. The downside is that drink cartons don't fit well in most. So if you are addicted to diet coke like I am, you have to take the cans out or put carton in sideways. Silly, I know, but a little annoying.

No high end appliances are not worth it for resell value. If its bosch it probably don't work well. Its similiar to rims on a car has no effect on trade in amount.

Depends on what it adds to the aesthetics. In a small, tight kitchen, counter depth fridges make a huge difference. That the maker happens to be Subzero is irrelevant.

bela, there're quite a few counter-depths out there now. Used to be just Sub-Zero and, when I got one, Amana. If you want to pre-shop for dimensions, etc., www.consumerreports.com is worth checking out.

Friend of mine just had the compressor on his Sub-Zero blow, after only 15 years, and got a new Viking for not much more than fixing the S-Z would've cost.

ue10021 -- no -- the delta is 15K. The difference between 12K -- to 27K. Kenmore may work -- but Viking sings to buyers. If you are selling an apt for several million -- it is like skipping the granite counter top an dgoing with corian -- Yuck!

Granite's over with if you want to be drop-dead. For that you need thick (3"+) slabs of marble. No cheating on the edges; thickness has to show in the undermount sink. Thinner's OK on the full-height backsplash. The impracticality says money-be-damned. That's for generic high-end Manhattan, with the white inset-door cabinets, etc. For modern/cool, go with quartz or something like that. For either you need stuff like Gaggenau.

Yeah, they say granite causes cancer or some such. But marble--youch. Stains and scratches and pits. Blech.

Yes, but for that kind of kitchen you're not the one doing the scrubbing and sealing.

I have marble, and I love the patina. If we ever sold and that was the only issue with the buyers, easy enough to replace.

@ the end of the day property value will continue to plummet, prospective buyers won't include appliances in the value of property.

Yeah, it's all fine until someone leaves an open bottle of red wine out. Those rings are nearly impossible to remove :(

mutombonyc -- it is foolish to think that if they think you are a cheap bag -- that they will not think twice for your unit over another -- prices will continue to fall -- but being a cheap skimping jerk will reek on the sales front to any prospective buyer....

Let's keep off topic. I like countertop talk. So I did an experiment with Caesarstone recently. I took their Misty Carrera or some such color that was whitish with gray in it. I took honed and polished 5"x8" samples. Then into each one I ground and smushed a raspberry and a blueberry, poured a little puddle of balsamic vinegar and another of red wine, dripped tomato sauce and some coke. I left it all over night. In the a.m. I rinsed the slabs. Perfectly clean with the exception of a near imperceptible shadow under the honed raspberry stain. Pretty impressive I thought. And because the stuff comes in 10 foot slabs or something (maybe more), most runs can be done seamlessly.

the new trend is having appliances match with the cabinetry concealed... so it doesn't really matter what brand you have

Kylewest: I have marble, I know it stains (and I have some stains) but honestly I don't care. I just like the way it looks. If that were the only dealbreaker if we had to sell, I'd replace it with the stone of buyer's choice.

Honestabe: most American brands cannot be integrated seamlessly with cabinetry (except for Subzero) - so it's a bit circular to say it doesn't matter what brand - i can name off the top of my head exactly which brands for what appliances supply take custom panels

To my knowledge, the only refrigerator maker that provides a completely integrated refrigerator in the U.S. (w/o the ugly side strips) is Subzero (7-series) - that is why there is a price premium - this is dime a dozen (and cheap) in Europe

Dishwashers - a few more brands (Fisher-Paykel, Miele, Bosch)

Kyle, right. Quartz/glass is the way to go for practical use, and looks good. Granite is too HGTV. But for pure effect, big chunky marble is great, stain or no stain. In some Italian magazine I saw a thick (say 8") chunk with the bowl carved out of it.

I think Leibherr does the euro refrigerators where you attach a panel across the whole front -- no edges showing.

manhattanfox, you sound like bjw2103, and he's pathetic, the truth is the truth, prices will plummet based on the current market value largely based on supply vs demand and the economic snow storm. You will not gain an additional 5k on the 7k you spent on granite and if you did you still lost. You see all of the new developments across the city, bosch, granite and views of the city can't help the fact of the selling to renting depreciating value. There's a great difference today between asking and selling prices.

mutombo, the kitchen-for-resale discussion is way back there. Now we're on kitchen for its own sake.

Thank you NWT! I am so weary of money talk and down market. Let's just talk about pretty things! More fun.

Yes, Liebherr makes a completely integrated fridge which comes in a 30" model for $1500-2000 less than Sub-Zero and which is extremely nice. I don't like the double door gizmo arrangement to avoid the strips around the panel--personally the strips holding the panel in don't bug me. I've always been surprised there aren't more 30" counter-depth choices out there for fridges given most of America lives in urban environs, but that is likely me failure to understand the rest of the country as a result of being a NYer.

I love white marble counters. The patina of your life that is reflected in the stone over time, even some of the damage that inevitably results from the pot that slips and makes the white cloudy spot. But it isn't for every kitchen and look and I really don't like colored marbles in kitchens. Any counter that makes it impossible to see if it is clean I do not like. Currently have black flecked very-ordinary granite in the rental I'm camping in and hate it. Hate how food looks on it, hate not being able to see crumbs, feels like a tomb in there sometimes.

Can we talk sinks for a second? Who has a sink they love and why? How deep? Franke is all the rage and many are very deep it seems.

I have white carrera - as I said, love the patina. I asked for a less streaked, and whiter slab. What's amazing to me is that the European imports haven't made it. There are so many counterdepth, fully integrated cheap fridges in Europe. A Miele 30" wide freezer & refrigerator costs 900USD.

I have 2 Frankes and an Elkay sink in previous kitchens. I love the Franke - my criterion is that it be wide enough to fit oven trays & deep enough for my largest pots. Love having 2 sinks as well. Elkays are great as well, no real diff. between them and Franke. I don't love the white farm kitchen sink or the copper sink look. White just gets dirty so fast.

I've had 4 Hansgrohe kitchen faucets now and I'm never going back. I love having a pull out and the spray button.

Maybe in my next kitchen reno, I'll go all retro and get one of those retro fridges and diner-esque kitchen cabs. Throw in an Aga stove.

I'll confess that I've never had a fully-integrated dishwasher that satisfied me. To be honest, the Kitchenaid/GE dishwasher in our camping out rental while doing renos beats Miele/Bosch/FP. But, they don't make one (or didn't) that took custom panels.

Stoves! An acquaintance is reno-ing a home. She got it in her head (maybe from too much time walking around William-Sonoma) that she needs to have a LaCornue stove. And she doesn't cook! It costs $20,000!!! or something close to that. Anyway, the behemoth she selected weights so much an engineer had to be hired to make sure it wouldn't fall through the kitchen floor. An I-beam later (God knows what that cost), the La Cornue is ready to move in.

I recently put in a 10" deep Elkay Avado undermount stainless sink. This is the design with the straight sides and corners -- much more like a box than the rounded corners you find in most sinks. I really love it. Love the look, love that it is easy to clean. Hubbie would have preferred the 8" when all was said and done. He feels like he has to bend into the sink too much when scrubbing pots.

And I LOVE LOVE LOVE my Franke faucet. It has a flip lever to move from different spray functions. Other brands and designs with the push button mechanism to go from stream to spray seem to get stuck over time.

I am in awe of the beauty of LaCornue but it's so impractical. Agas have the retro look and are much cheaper and lighter.

By counter depth do you mean the fridges that are half the size of normal fridges? Or are there two parts, one fridge, one freezer and the overall size is the same? Because I'm in an apartment with a smaller fridge now, and I've gotta say, it is one of things I look forward to most about owning my kitchen.

Counter depth meaning the fridge doesn't protrude from the counter. They can be exactly the same capacity as a "normal" fridge, but would obviously have to be taller to be the same capacity. IMO, it's aesthetically displeasing to have a fridge "jut out".

Counter depth refrigerators are only as deep as standard countertops, so they do not stick out beyond the edge of the countertop. It makes for a much more seamless, smooth, less bulky look. It has nothing to do with the height of the fridge. You can get fridge-only counter depth units or fridge/freezer configurations (side-by-side, fridge over freezer, fridge over two freezer drawers, etc.)

Sub-Zero makes the depth profile narrower by putting the compressors and other mechanicals on top of the unit, rather than in the rear of a standard fridge. That's why SZs always have ventilation grills above the doors.

damn, sticking to the thread question nwt and kylewest don't like it my bad.

Here's my answer - only as it contributes to the aesthetics of the apt and not to be the outlier among the other properties for sale. If everyone has a Viking, you need a Viking. If nobody does, not sure what it gets you in this market to have one.

Exactly. Here're some categories of buyer:

1. Fuss-pots who're going to hate whatever you do, won't want to pay for it, and will start over.
2. Just want it respectable and appropriate to the apartment.
3. Indifferent, so landlord-grade will be fine.

So, leave it alone, get a broker's advice, or do what the neighbors do. If your building has a sponsor still selling apts as tenants die, do what they do.

I was in the La Cornue store in Montreal, and quite ready to walk out with one to stick in my 5-foot by 8-foot kitchen ... but I don't understand you marble people; wine stains it, oil stains it . . .what do you eat?

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Thanks for the sink comments. Can't wait to see my kitchen installed (today!).
Ali, the stains are part of the point. It isn't nice for a dabbler in the kitchen perhaps, but for a real cook, it becomes like a family member. Stains, bruises, evidence of a life well-lived and enjoyed. That said, I'm getting Caesarstone because the stains would drive me crazy :-)
Isn't this stuff SO much more interesting and fun to talk about than Stevejhx's threads on...ANYTHING! I wanna own and reno a kitchen to make it my own and pick out pretty stuff! To hell with rent vs. buy. Boring, boring, boring.

We did a kitchen last summer. Installed soapstone counter tops, just love it.

I heart kylewest.

Great thread (despite mutombo's attempts to sabotage as usual).

I have a Blanco stainless kitchen sink - it's a single basin, which I kind of prefer. Also think quartz is the way to go for countertops. Marble does have charm, for sure, but for a clean-freak it's maddening. I could never do it.

Also, no one has mentioned Asko for dishwashers. Quite happy with it so far.

Anyone ever microwave a Peep?

Oh, sorry, thought we were talking kitchen experiments here...

informed opinions on butcher block counter tops?

@kylewest - I am getting Caesarstone countertops installed in a few weeks. Did you go with the polished or honed? Would love to hear how it looks once installed.

Squid, LOL.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

UWSmom, I have granite and butcher block counters and really like the combination from a work standpoint. I don't have to drag out cutting boards every time I chop vegetables. But you have to be okay with a worn-in look once the knife marks start accumulating. You can periodically sand them down and use mineral oil, which goes a long way toward making them look fresh. I've seen people who have varnished their wood countertops -- I don't quite get the point. You can't cut on them, nor can you put hot objects down. I think if you are going to do a section of butcher block (definitely not necessary for the whole kitchen -- and definitely not around a sink or wet area), be prepared to use it and accept the marks that will inevitabley appear. But along the lines of kylewest's comment that marble shows all the wonderful marks of one's life and kitchen adventures, I think wood can do the same.

From a resale standpoint, I think real cooks love having the butcher block, but many others might be turned off by a perceived 'ick' factor. I personally never cut meat or fish on the wood, but I suppose it could make a buyer contemplate someone else's kitchen hygeine.

I suppose if you just like the look of butcher block (I know many don't), then you would treat them like any other type of counter top and never cut directly on them. I wonder if you cam make them completely impermeable with a sealant? Shiny varnish kind of gives me the 'ick' factor :)

I had half butcher block/half grouted three inch tiles in a prior apartment, and the house upstate has granite with a 5'x4' island with a butcher block top. I love butcher block, but I could see how many wouldn't. It doesn't take long to sand them down when you want to freshen up things.

Not saying my kitchen is sterile, but there is a fair amount of cutting meat/chicken going on in my kitchen and trying to clean butcher block would drive me crazy. I have 2 Epicurean chopping boards from Zabar's - they're great for everything. If I cut meat/chicken on them, I pour boiling water afterwards on the boards & knives & sponges (not necessarily clean boiling water, pasta cooking water great for this purpose). I also try to cut on top of the paper wrapping from the butcher's in order to save on cleaning.

Kylewest - exactly to my point on Carrera marble. I do try to contain the stain-causing activities to one side of the sink, so it's easy to remember to wipe off. The thing is, I cook 3 meals a day, so regardless of what countertop I get, my kitchen will have more wear and tear than the average Manhattan kitchen. Not sure what I'd do if I had to sell, I could probably give it a facelift (new cab doors & countertop).

If I encountered a well-worn marble counter in a kitchen, I would consider keeping it, personally. Unlike an old toilet seat or beaten up base moulding, an old marble counter can add charm and a sense of history and depth to a place.

ITM: Ceasarstone I'm getting is "Pebble" in polished. There isn't a huge difference in Caesarstone appearance or function based on hone or polished and I just went with what will look cleaner and be the most stain resistant.

My kitchen arrived today and is being installed as we speak. I can't believe it is mine. 100% custom for less than a Rudd from MCKB including installation (which means no tax b/c it is a "capital improvement"). What I've learned when renovating: be there yourself as often as possible to tweak details, keep things from going too far off track when errors are made and identify potential problems and solve them before they are problems. I don't think it is possible to over-think or be too involved in your own renovation. SO EXCITING!

kylewest,

Congrats! New kitchens are pretty exciting. How much are you renovating? Just the countertop?

Kylwest, Any recomendation on contractor? Kitchen builder? How is pricing relative to Home Depot?

Kylewest, give us all the juicy details. This is the most fun I've had on a thread in ages. Cabinet type? color? appliances? backsplash? floor? any major splurges?

Kylewest - I assume you know and/or frequent the kitchen forums on gardenweb. The way my Carrera is seamed, replacing the one area that gets stains/scratches is not a big deal. To be honest, if we remain gainfully employed in NYC, this could be our forever home until the kids leave home.

Funny timing of this thread. Our dishwasher broke yesterday. We may have a buyer of our place. If that's our case would you replace the dishwasher or just give them a concession on price? I was going to ask them what they'd prefer (within our budget) but if they pick something that doesn't match the rest of the kitchen as it currently stands and the deal falls through, it will look really odd. Haven't looking into dishwashers yet so I have no idea what they cost.

Buy a new one ASAP that fits in with the rest of your kitchen - don't give a potential buyer any reason to balk. A very good dw can be had for $900.

Re: replacing DW: as a buyer I preferred a $400 credit over a low-end DW which I'd essentially just throw away during reno.

nyc10023: have found Gardenweb very useful and helpful over the last 8 months. Great resource for info: www.gardenweb.com Home Forums.

Kas 242: Juicy details on my reno! Custom kitchen cabinetry arrived today. Shop-painted lacquered soft-white; framed doors and drawers with just enough detail to be interesting but not suburban or ridiculous. Soft-self-close drawers--love that! Great little "furniture" feet detail on the bases. Every inch to my specifications. 1/2 is installed. Rest over next 2 days. Poor guys had to CARRY the pantry up 6 flights--and it was HEAVY. Elevator too small. Cool slide out shelves inside it. If anyone interested in top-notch custom shop that is less than MCKB so-called custom kitchens by thousands of dollars, email me @ kwest@nyc.rr.com . I have no idea how any of it compares to Home Depot, but I suspect significantly more--it's all to-customer-specs, ply-wood frames with maple veneer interiors, dove-tailed drawers, MDF inset doors, etc.

Gray ceasarstone counters coming. Mix of dark and light gray and white 1"x2" glass subway tiles for backsplash (Villi tiles available from Cancos in custom blends). Stainless behind stove to address heat (glass tiles not so good with stove heat). What you'ld expect by way of fancy appliances. Floor is continuation of hardwood in main room to which kitchen is partially open. Just open enough so I'm part of the action when slaving away at the meal, but private enough for guests not to see my mess. Fabulous Hudson Valley Lighting 1940's era look to overhead fixtures (2). Cool faucet that looks like retro R2D2 from Rohl for the Franke sink that I am hoping isn't too deep for me. It's nice and big, though. The whole kitchen is just a 10" galley layout, but it is going to be a FABULOUS 10 feet! After dreaming of having a kitchen like this my entire adult life, I will actually have it in a few weeks!

Rest of reno almost done. Finish work being done all over. Nice shiny satin paint on custom doors, grout in calcatta marble bathroom tomorrow, finish strips on base mouldings started. It is all coming together in these last 2-3 weeks.

When it is done, it'll be a completely renovated, customized and ideally laid out home we'll be able to live for a very long time. Up-to-date but inspired by the 40's and 50's. Can't wait to move in.

And Steve, yes, we could rent for less. It is also a place we've created together and can't wait to share our lives in hopefully for many, many years.

kylewest, congratulations! I'm glad that you're seeing your dream come true & that you're enjoying it so. Thanx for sharing - & keep posting!

Which brands do developers use for the kitchen (fridge/stove/dishwasher) and bath for high-profile buildings like TWC, 15 CPW, etc?

I know that One Madison Park uses Gaggenau for their kitchens

LOL about calacutta marble and cancos shoutout - i have calacutta in my bathrooms too and i'm a big fan of cancos (though haven't bought anything from them yet)

I suspect kylewest isn't typical of most buyers, so i would replace that dishwasher - not with utter crap but a solid kitchenaid / bosch dw.

Your kitchen layout sounds close to mine - hardwood floors, continuation from lr. Mine is closed on one end, open on the other. I can easily add a wall to close off w/o having to do major demo (may make sense later on when kids are older).

Yeah, I don't expect I'll ever have kids (rather spend the money on appliances it seems), but kitchen could easily be closed back up if someone wanted to in future.

Appliances for some highend places are surprisingly mundane because they expect new owners to rip them out. Trump put in GE profile in Trump International. No one spends $15MM on an apartment and has those--as nice as they may be in some homes.

In the pre-Second-Depression era, bragging rights for brands in kitchens of new condos went to Sub-Zero fridge (de rigeur, although I think Liebherr is nicer and more "green"), Wolf or Viking slide-in ranges or cooktops (despite Vikings ridiculous repair rate and Wolf's non-sealed burners which are impossible to clean), Miele DWs. Also seen were/are Bosch, Asko, Gaggeneau. Maybe I left out one or two brands, but all-in-all, I doubt anything listed here comes as a surprise. Alas, in the new-age, as the NYT RE section described last weekend, brand names are "out" and quality of life, family, apartments as a place of comfort and serenity in turbulent times are all in as selling points. But trust me: "serenity" with a multi-million dollar price tag will still come with buyers expecting Wolf, Subzero, Bosch, and Miele.

thanks for the reply kylewest

the best appliance I ever put in a kitchen was a counter depth fridge..

Great posts kylewest. Makes me want to go out and buy, wait, no, wait, yes.

Am looking at open houses these days. Saw a charming two bedroom pre-war at 400 E. 59th this past weekend. Had older Gaggeneau appliances that were hysterical, something out of the Jetsons. If it suited your sense of humor (assuming still fully functional, of course) would eventually be great conversation piece. They actually weren't that noticeable at first because the cabinets had been updated to incorporate them cleverly, but it would be kind of fun to show to guests.

julia, I agree, the CD fridge is a lovely creation.

I didn't see your question about baths, M. Toto toilets were all the rage. interestingly, some people on www.gardenweb.com reported not being happy with the anemic "hurricane" flush of some models despite Toto's most-popular-toilet mantle. Other fancy toilets are Duravit.

For bath hardware, Waterworks breaks the bank quicker than any others I know of. English companies (e.g., Perrin and Rowe) do a pretty good job of separating you from your money too but their names aren't as well known and I think that is why they weren't in as many fancy new condos. Rainshowers of any type were/are very big selling points, although actually showering under them is something of a matter of personal preference not everyone shares--they aren't viewed as universally wonderful by users as one might assume from all the hype. Body sprays by any make were also very hoity-toity; the more the shower resembled a car wash spritzing you from every conceivable angle, the better developers and marketers believed. Get a sprayer and blower under the toilet seat and the bathroom is complete with this "Japanese Cleansing Toilet" that comes with a remote control and instructions! If you like your guests talking to you about your toilet, this is the way to go--everyone feels the need to comment when such a contraption is discovered on a visit to one's home. Other standard highend items include a Robern medicine (get really fancy and put a little fridge in the cabinet for her delicate makeup or such; or maybe a lock box inside for those Vicadin you are hoarding; or a socket for your electric nose hair trimmer--all will add many hundreds to the cost). More highend bath stuff? Custom tempered glass doors and shower walls with polished nickel clips and hardware. Expect a few thousand for that--those panels are EXPENSIVE!

I'm a total slave to trends then. I've had both Toto and Duravit toilets. What I loved about Totos was the engineering inside the tank, so much neater and cleaner than the rubber and chain. Great customer support too, I had a question and got it answered by an expert in 10 mins. Duravits - impractical for various reasons, but I love the look. I'm a lover of the dual-flush toilets and also the "if it's yellow, don't flush" - my ultimate goal (maybe not in Manhattan) is to go for the non-hooked up composting toilet. Crazy that we use clean, potable water to flush our toilets when millions die for the want of a drink of clean water. As for faucets, again I'm an engineering geek and I cannot, cannot stand the way most Kohler valves are put together - it's like "but the want of an o-ring" the entire assembly can malfunction.

Kylewest, thanks so much for all the great kitchen details. It sounds gorgeous. I love the look of white painted cabinets, but have worried about maintenance. Is there a special painting process or sealant that you recommend?

Too bad SE doesn't have a picture attachment function. It would be fun to see how it all comes together in the next few weeks.

FWIW, when I started out looking to buy, we 100% wanted a place we didn't have to renovate. Then we saw what there was and realized we didn't like anyone else's taste and couldn't imagine spending all those 100's of 1000's of dollars for something we would just settle for. So I said if we bought something for less money that needed 80% renovation (not new floors or windows or complete electrical and plumbing), then I'd be willing to oversee the reno; we'd spend the money we saved making the place near perfect and for the same price more or less we'd have a dream home. The latter is what we did.

Reno is a long and time-consuming slog, but not necessary high-stress or nightmarish if you hire the right people and have a strong vision. The more you know what you want, the less you'll spend making mistakes and paying others to present you with options. Never take the lowest bid, be willing to pay for detailed, top-notch construction drawings, don't cut corners with permits or building rules, lean toward contractors your architect or board president or building super like, check on the reno constantly. Hey, know what? We should start a thread on reno tips for success...