We submitted two bids

Best of luck...I hope they were nice low balls!

Hope one or the other pans out!

I'm confused at the process of making offers. If both of the offers you put in are accepted - what happens? when is it binding?

The other day I did a few comparisons and it seems many of these are getting much more reasonable. Seems a bunch of these 3 beds 2100-2400 f2 are being listed south of $1,400 f2. At least they are in the area where you are now allowed to bid.

theburkhardtgroup, curious to know whether you predicted the real estate crash? I don't remember you posting that the market is going down before it actually happened. Not very convincing. And no, they were no lowball offers. One was already market down a lot from 07 sales prices and the other one is pretty reasonable I think. Your generic 'put a lowball offer in' is oversimplifying, it all depends on how well it's priced.

"I'm confused at the process of making offers. If both of the offers you put in are accepted - what happens? when is it binding?"

It is binding when there is a fully executed contract signed by the buyer, buyer's attorney, seller, and seller's attorney. Before that, nothing is binding.

uppereast,
Finally, the voice of reason. Absolutely, just saying "lowball" is an oversimplification. Everything depends on how well it is priced relative to the comps and other properties on the market.

Good luck, UE! Hope you move into a home you love.

Uppereast:

I have tended to be very bearish on Manhattan RE prices for a long time now. However, obviously, no idea what you are bidding, but I like it. I am now of the mind that there are many apts I would be comfortable bidding on. The problem I had in all of '07 '08 was the list price. I would see an apt I would pay 4mm for and it was listed for 10.5mm. So whats the point, you do nothing. Now I am seeing apts that are listed for 5.5mm or so that I would pay 4mm for. Now I think they are approaching numbers that are close enough to warrent my bid being presented. Only problem now is that I havn't seen the exact one I want, some close, but the fairy tale hasn;t shown up yet. Good luck to you.

Thanks, 407PAS. I am kind of exhausted by the repetitive mantra on this site. There are quite a few properties now that are marked down to reasonable levels. On one of them there is actually a another buyer tripsing around, let's see whether we are faster.

Thanks for the explanation 407PAS. So even if an offer is accepted its nothing to get excited about b/c someone might come in with a higher offer and the seller can rescind their acceptance?

Good luck uppereast!

Good luck uppereast. Keep us posted on your progress. I was just thinking that we will see a bounce in activity as the spring selling season kicks into gear and the school notices go out. A little more realism on the part of sellers will help too. Catching the knucklehead with the bat running around the UES won't hurt.

I sense a tinge of hostility in your reply I was only infusing a bit of humor, no need to read to much into it.

However for the record, I stopped "selling" last March and started advising all my clients to wait(I also took my own advice), in the meantime I do rentals(and started my own shop to do this). I am also on record in the "RealDeal" that I felt the market would continue to slide. IMHO I still believe we will see declines in prices, I think we get back to 2002-2003 price points.

"too" much into it.

theburkhardgroup, last March was too LATE. If they bought in 07 or early 08, they are out of money now... What do you tell your clients you sold to in Jan 08?

bol - let us know how things sift out

As much as stevexhj sometimes annoys me with his repetive posts, he actually forecasted much better than you who is a professional broker.

Question for you uppereast and please take no offense, I am not trying to pry, just curious. Do your offers have a mortgage contigency?

Jake, No, they don't. We could do all cash but will not. One is a Park Ave building and they require 60% down so it's easy to get mortgage.

Well I don't have a crystal ball and was not alone in missing the call, that said I was better than most. I was bearish in 2008 and most of my income was from the rental side, only 3 sales and all were to people that plan to be in there homes a very long time. One was a sale at 45 5th ave for about $1000 psf, so not too bad.

2007-Very few can see that far out, if I had that ability and the conviction to follow through on my predictions I would be a very wealthy man, enjoying my property in Costa Rica.

"Thanks for the explanation 407PAS. So even if an offer is accepted its nothing to get excited about b/c someone might come in with a higher offer and the seller can rescind their acceptance?"

Well, usually if a buyer proceeds in good faith, with their lawyer performing the due diligence on the building and its finances, and everyone signs the contract within a relatively short period of time, the deal works out fine. Before signing, either side can walk away without any penalty.

I think some buyers are afraid to bid because they think they are bound after a number is agreed upon. I always tell potential buyers that they have time to think about whether they want to go forward. A week or two should be plenty of time for them to decide if they want to proceed, and, if so, they sign a contract.

uppereast,
Yeah, I hear the constant mantra but I have also seen properties that I would bid on. Good luck with your offers.

Stop me if needed uppereast but this is something I have been thinking about. You could pay all cash but will look to take out a mortgage. You don't need the mortgage but see some advantage to having it. The offers are not contigent but the intent is to get a mortgage. You are the most well qualified borrower around putting 60%+ down and with enough liquid assets to pay cash for the apartment. If you can't get a mortgage its very likely no one can.

But what if you can't get a mortgage? Many new development buyers were convinved they could get a mortgage and did not have mortgage contigencies. Take a look at the Brompton thread. I understand that you have enough cash to buy the apartment without a mortgage. But if the sh*t really hit the fan and well qualified borrowers could not get mortgages that could really hurt property prices. You I think see a benefit of having a mortgage and not being able to obtain one is a negative.

Why not include a mortgage contigency in the offer? It seems to me sthat ellers are losing the upper hand on just about everything else why not this issue too? I would imagine there are not too many potential buyers like you left. The risk I know is very small that you will not get a mortgage but if its not really a risk why wouldn't the seller agree?

theburkhardtgroup, O.K., at least you are honest.

Jake, It makes me more attractive to not ask for a mortgage contingency.

Last March was late to be telling people not to buy. It is the prior 9 months that caught people at the top.

uppereast: I agree that under the right circumstances why not buy? I am helping a buyer/friend put together an offer on a unit they are currently renting, owner needs to sell.

If I was in a more stable line of work :), I would start putting some offers in on houses we have been following in NJ over the last year.

Congratulations Uppereast!!
Good for you!!
I hope you get what you're looking for!

We were about to bid on a classic 7 (not on Park) but hubby decided we should wait another 6 months!! Things have changed at his office and it's not as stable as it was a couple of weeks ago.

I would love to find a nice classic 7 to rent for a year and wait and see what happens a year from now.

Once your offer is accepted and you're in contract, please share with us the details.

>>Once your offer is accepted and you're in contract, please share with us the details.<<

But of course don't share any of those details until the contract's been signed and countersigned...

For the record, uppereast, I'll say that I don't understand your hostility towards the people who advocate lowballing, nor your self-righteous pride in presenting offers at ask. It's your money, but as a buyer you should be glad that prices have come down. You should also be aware that almost nobody is predicting that it's all done and they're not coming down any further (unless you count Pam Lieberman and co. as honest interlocutors). You may have your own reasons to buy (although I cannot fathom any reasonable ones) and to pay ask (ditto), but there's no reason to think people here are reveling in the whole economic catastrophe. I'm happy for the NYC RE crash, but would have preferred it to happen without all the rest, and I'm pretty sure it would have, at least to a certain extent. Of course, with the added impetus we're in for rock bottom.

I don't think uppereast ever said the offer was at ask. A lowball is generally an insulting offer that wastes everybody's time.

So, is StreetEasy going to announce the exact hour, minute, and day when the buyers should start buying?

People sold as prices went up and nobody is crying for the sellers, saying that they should have received a higher price for their apartments, when their properties appreciated above the prices they got. Now, when prices are easing, everybody is screaming to stay out of the market until some bottom is reached.

trompiloco, Did I ever say I bid ask? There is a wide range between low balling and paying ask. It's not all black or white as you and your fellow posters paint it.

uppereast,

More attractive to whom? More attractive to the seller's broker? More attractive to the seller? You are already a very well qualified buyer and go above and beyond the financial requirements of the co-op board. Is there a bidding war on these apartments where you need to distinguish your offer? Don't answer that but honestly I haven't seen too many apartments trading through the ask lately.

It's to the seller's benefit and to the detriment of the buyer not to have a mortgage contigency. This is having disastrous consequences in the new development market. I cannot get my head around why seller's (and brokers) get away with this in New York. Just becasue that's convention and that's the way we have always done it?

Jake, I am not above and beyond the board. Park Ave boards are tricky. They require more than 100% in liquid assets. This is not the first time I am buying and I have worked with the same bank over and over again. I know that I am getting a mortgage.

Congrats uppereast! Hope it all goes well. If any similar things come up as rentals, just send them my way now that you are no longer in the market!

I must say that I would not sign a contract without a mortgage contingency in place. I just don't trust the banks. I have seen one walk on a friend of mine, just a few days before closing.

I find it mean-spirited on the part of the seller to not accept a mortgage contingency. I don't want someone's deposit as part of a soured deal. But, you know, this is New York and lots of people wouldn't mind doing that.

407PAS - I like a lot of your posts but I don't think anything is meanspirited if something is in a contract that two parties agree to. I agree with uppereast that offering no mortgage contingency makes them very attractive to a seller although I am not sure it is even necessary to do that in this environment. Notheless, if the buyer is willing (and the seller most definitely would be), there is nothing meanspirited about it.

Thanks lo888. I'm glad you enjoy my posts. Since I am both a seller and a buyer, as a seller, I have trouble requiring something of a buyer that I would not agree to as a buyer. I guess we can disagree on whether it is mean-spirited. You're right, I don't think this concession is necessary in this environment.

There is a lot of mean-spirited language that can be written into a contract. Hence, everyone should read their contracts carefully, and have their lawyer do a thorough review, before signing on the bottom line.

I think there should be humanity in our business dealings. I know sellers are trying to protect themselves from failure. I understand the motivation. Then again, with a strong candidate, the risk of failure should be small.

I know I stopped bidding on one place when I could not get a mortgage contingency, even though I knew I could get a mortgage. Maybe that was because my wife was yelling at me when she realized the consequences of not getting financing. It doesn't take much to sour a deal.

407PAS - I wouldn't sign without it either! The banks are horrific these days and the reprecussions of being turned down and having to cough up the cash are pretty grim. That being said, if I had a very nice buyer like uppereast make me an offer without a mortgage contingency, I would gladly take her over someone offering 5-7% more. Not that lucky though!

It sounds like uppereast has a very strong relationship with his banker and based on what we know has a little bit of dough. :)

I still think it is prudent in today's market and almost expected that the seller allows for a mortgage contingency.

On a small deal I did a few years ago at 131 Thomson street we allowed for a mortgage contingency with specifically defined terms. Everything is negotiable, let the attorneys craft something that allows reasonable terms of this contingency for both buyer and seller. There are just too many uncertainties out there today.

lol uppereast has a case of buyers (bidders) remorse. Who would act all defensive to an innocent comment like:

"Best of luck...I hope they were nice low balls!"

And wtf does "curious to know whether you predicted the real estate crash? I don't remember you posting that the market is going down before it actually happened. Not very convincing." have to do with that?

Enjoy making denials to yourself for the next decade about the pad you way overpaid for.

uppereast: my gut says that you will be accepted for both offers, as you sound like the only non-lowballing buyer in town. what a courage you have! kudos to you.

jgr: LOL, i felt it was an overreaction too but cause the whole process sure is exhausting, not cause of remorse.

jgr, I just sold my 2br. Wished I had sold last year but it turned out O.K. Currently looking for 3BR.

Admin, As I said before, prices were already greatly reduced. If I now offer 20% below already 30% below, I don't think I will go too far.

Most of sellers are still not facing the new reality

"I just sold my 2br"

well, that changes things. if you were to jump to the mkt a new i would expect you to low ball a lot. but instead you are trading up, which lowers your real losses in case the market crashes as you will be for the most part losing the profits that your previous 2Br generated (provided you bought it on 2000 or before). so not a big deal.

uppereast,
Congratulations on selling your two bedroom. I hope everything turns out ok with your sale. How are you handling the bidding on a second place when the first place has not closed yet? Are you going to try to time the second closing after the first?

Uppereast - any replies on your offers yet? Also, I didn't notice that you didn't close on your sale yet. Are your buyers all cash?

good luck uppereast -- we are OA so I hope you are too.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Congrats, Ali! Did you find a junior 4?

Congrats Ali! All the best.

Well Ali you certainly are putting your money where your mouth is! Best.

Thanks, more info once we are in contract!

ali r.
[downtown broker]

"The point I am making is that banks are starting to make money again. I am not advising to buy Citi stock nor do I work there. All I said a couple of weeks ago was that my bank and some other banks are starting to make money again." - uppereast

uppereast, i asked you already but you didn't answer. probably you didn't see my question (this is the 3rd time though). which business areas within IB do you believe/see that are actually showing better profitability?

So Did you or did you not secure the apt with you low ball bids

Uppereast - any replies on your offers yet?