80% Carpet Rules

RS you're out of your f'ng mind. all leases say that they can force you to do 80%. i don't think any say that you have to without someone complaining. i could be wrong, but that was how our lease was worded. and the two before that as well.

Different rules apply to aboutready

hi lipcomm. was the procedure painful?

My building requires 80% floor covering excluding kitchen closet and foyer unless expressly authorized by the board. I am certain your rules are similar and do not state the 80% rule becomes effective once a neighbor issues a complaint.

rs, you must be joking. of course the rules say that. have you gone to any open houses recently? how many people cover their floors 80%?

what a f'ng joke.

aboutready
11 minutes ago
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yes, and I'm going to speak to your husband to initiate a lawsuit

..and when you sign an agreement to purchase or rent and the rules are objectionable you negotiate and have them changed or go somewhere else. This is no different than moving into a building which prohibits pets and then bringing in two dogs, a cat and a lizard, or playing the stereo at 2:00 a.m. when the house rules say you cannot.

rs, you are 100% wrong. there is no negotiating for the 80% rule. and so, as i said before, let people move to the suburbs. it will help your property values so much.

but no. the real issue is that the rule is applied with ZERO consistency.

aboutready is entitled to treble damages because the rule is applied with ZERO consistency

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/20/realestate/20qa.html

Is the ‘80% Carpet’ Rule A Legal Requirement?

Q Is my upstairs neighbor legally required to carpet 80 percent of his floors? Both he and I are renting in a co-op building.

A “Carpeting 80 percent of floor area is not a legal requirement, but it is an obligation found in many leases,” said Sherwin Belkin, a Manhattan lawyer who represents landlords.

But he added that whether or not such a clause is in a lease, a landlord is obligated to ensure that one neighbor does not disturb another, under what is known as the warranty of habitability.

“If the upstairs neighbor is creating an excessive amount of noise, the landlord is obligated to take steps to ensure that the downstairs tenant’s rights are not violated,” Mr. Belkin said.

But the key word here is “excessive.” “If the upstairs tenant is not engaging in any inappropriate activities, and the tenant below is offended by the normal noise of apartment living, this would not give the downstairs tenant a viable right to complain,” he said.

Ultimately, Mr. Belkin said, the issue of whether noise constitutes a breach of the warranty of habitability would have to be decided by a court.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/w/warranty-of-habitability/
n landlord-tenant law, a warranty of habitability is implied in a residential lease. The law imposes certain duties on a landlord to maintain the premises in habitable condition. Failure to do so, such as providing adequate weatherproofing, available heat, water and electricity, and clean, sanitary and structurally safe premises, may be legal justification for a tenant's defensive acts, such as moving out (even in the middle of a lease), paying less rent, withholding the entire rent until the problem is fixed, making necessary repairs (or hiring someone to make them and deducting the cost from next month's rent).

There are no set rules. However, generally, the landlord must provide drinkable water, heat (in cold weather), a working sewer system, a safe, working electrical system, an operating smoke detector, a lock for your door, a home not filled with rodents and/or bugs, and a sanitary condition of the structure of the home and outside area.

The landlord must repair substantial defects in the rental unit and substantial failures to comply with state and local building and health codes. However, the landlord is not responsible under the implied warranty of habitability for repairing damages which were caused by the tenant or the tenant's family, guests, or pets. The landlord may be sued for a partial refund of past rent, and in some circumstances can be sued for the discomfort, annoyance and emotional distress caused by the substandard conditions.

http://www.stroock.com/SiteFiles/Pub415.pdf

Recently, however, it has been shown that excessive and continuous noise can be hazardous
to physical and mental health and can contribute to a reduced quality of life.5
Therefore, notwithstanding a historical wariness to find noise complaints actionable,
6 courts are beginning to extend the warranty of habitability to cover excessive
and unreasonable noise disturbance. New York City administrative agencies have also
responded to the issue of excessive noise.

yes, rs. noise is a problem. definitely. the 80 floor covering rule doesn't even begin to deal with the issue. that's my point. your neighbor can have 80% covered and still be the biggest, nastiest, noisiest person in the building.

the rule is random.

Carpet doesn't prevent all noise, it lessens it, but there are many rules or laws that are not 100% effective, in what they were designed to do.

Are you arguing that you are not bound by your lease agreement?

aboutready
9 minutes ago
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...
the rule is random.

is that the definition of random in the same dictionary as the word irregardless?
The rule is not "random" at all.

Yale education my a**

Riversider
1 minute ago
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Carpet doesn't prevent all noise, it lessens it, but there are many rules or laws that are not 100% effective, in what they were designed to do.

Are you arguing that you are not bound by your lease agreement?

Different rules always apply to aboutready

The carpet rule is also about the managing agent showing that it took reasonable steps to enforce the warranty of habitability and did so in a non-bias way. Everyone has to do it.

This is the same woman who says that the law is the law and you mess with it at your peril.

Find that quote!

aboutready, you should be in bloody therapy. For god's sake, please stop this oversharing. I wouldn't be shocked if it turns out that you invented you whole sorry life.

aboutready
about 11 weeks ago
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http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/15604-huge-news-sty-town-tenants-win?last_page=true

modern, please try to keep up. this thread hasn't been just about RS ever.

rs and licc who are busy trying to criticize me for my largesse are experiencing their own. you don't think it's legit for me to point out the hypocrisy?

murray, treble damages because of the history landlords have in NYC. it's very difficult for tenants to win, but when they do.

i recall a story told when i took the NY real estate licensing class at NYU. one RS landlord was particularly nasty, and pissed off a huge number of tenants, one of whom happened to be an attorney. he combed through the code with a fine-tooth comb and discovered that the kitchens in the building were a few square feet smaller than required by the law. he sued on behalf of himself and the others and they received treble damages for years of rent. i think that was the beginning of the anti-attorney bias in buildings. lord forbid landlords should have such stressors.

the law is the law. fuck with it at your potential peril.

also available in Google cache

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:fomP1yq9V8AJ:streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/15604-huge-news-sty-town-tenants-win%3Flast_page%3Dtrue+%2Baboutready+law+peril&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://www.carpet-rug.org/about-cri/what-is-cri/frequently-asked-questions.cfm#9

IAQ – Asthma

My child has asthma, I want carpet but what do I look for?

CRI is not aware of any published scientific research demonstrating a link between carpet and asthma or allergies. Look for green label carpets and cushions, plan for good ventilation during the installation process and plan for routine vacuuming with a green label vacuum. We are not aware that any particular product is better than any other.

http://www.canadiancarpet.org/carpet_and_health/health_facts.php

Fact: Carpet keeps allergens from becoming airborne.

Carpet holds allergen-causing substances tightly and, as a result, keeps them from becoming airborne, minimizing their level in the breathing zone; this translates to lower exposure potential. The allergens held by carpet’s filter-like effect may be removed by vacuuming, thereby refreshing the filter-like properties of the carpet to allow more material to be removed from the air. Vacuuming carpet once or twice a week removes allergens, including dust mite feces - a known source of allergen. It is important to use an efficient vacuum cleaner - central system or a machine with a HEPA filter - to minimize re-suspending allergens.

Rsider - um, you are looking at sources that want to sell carpets. Allergists (including ours) all say that carpet are not good for allergy sufferers. No, our building does not have an 80% rule.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/flooring/carpet-allergy.htm

The Carpet and Rug Institute (CRI) defends its product, claiming that carpet fibers actually trap allergy-provoking substances like dust and pollen and prevent them from circulating in the air where you're more likely to encounter them. While this may be true for those of us blessed with more tolerant immune systems, medical professionals often advise people with severe allergies to remove wall-to-wall carpeting.

The Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America agrees with the CRI: There are indeed more allergens on surfaces than in the air, but, the organization adds, the slightest movement can disturb them. That means that whenever you sit on that shag carpet, you're sending all those allergens airborne where they can circulate for several hours [source: Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America].

aboutready
about 11 weeks ago
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http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/15604-huge-news-sty-town-tenants-win?last_page=true
...
the law is the law. fuck with it at your potential peril.

OK --

Back to the topic of carpeting requirements. They are patently unenforceable. You hire a lawyer -- after the noise continues -- all written complaints to Board, Building Manager on file--

You go to court. The court requires a formal measuring. The defendent lays down 15 area rugs and it is 80% covered.

The court dismisses the case. You eat your legal costs.

The next day -- defendent rolls up and returns the area rugs.

You are back to square one.

Repeat.

Repeat.

Repeat.

All money losses to you.

Can't sleep and turn to streeteasy to narcotize.... Damn, the vacuum issue ----- which HEPA green machine to buy? I've got an Oreck and it's fine but I'm tired of it, and I want a canister model.

Just get carpet and a vacuum and stop bitching to people. Asthma and allergies are all modern illnesses created by society and ridiculous parenting.

Miele or Dyson, poorish. I was constantly breaking cheaper vacuums until I bought the Miele (7 years, so far so good).

"Just get carpet and a vacuum and stop bitching to people. Asthma and allergies are all modern illnesses created by society and ridiculous parenting."

Thank GOD a voice of reason.

For the record, the two best vacuums on the market today -- most powerful and best filtration systems: Kirby and Filter Queen.

Poorish: surprised that no-one made a risque suggestion for a sleeping aid.

"I want a canister model."

Even the best canisters can't quite compare with uprights when it comes to deep-cleaning rugs and carpets

worth a repost

jsmith9005
2 days ago
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"romary, again, PLEASE READ. i don't have an issue now. none"

Then why were you cursing everyone out in this thread? Here's just a sample of your diatribe:

"how the f did you take "a glimpse of their living room" without their consent?"
"how do you have a rats ass clue as to why they don't have floor coverings? "
"you're a tard. "
"btw, you're still a tard. no compassion."
"once again you're absolutely full of shit matt. absolutely. "
"maybe one day you'll have a kid with asthma. happy days!"
"do you get it now? your kid can be a fucking obnoxious loud nightmare "
"Matt, you are such an asshole. such an asshole."
"btw, you're a jerk of the highest order."
"good f'ng lord the assumptions here are crazy. maly, same for you."
"give me a f'ng break"
"and really. what an assholic thing to write"

There IS joy in Mudville! I will go out and buy myself a lovely Miele this weekend! NY10023 has given me permission! I've admired them at Gracious Home .........

Which reminds me ......... I was thinking about these types of things, and I asked my 23 year old son what he thought middle-aged women sat around and thought about. He looked at me for a moment. "Sour diesel?" he asked.

For f&*ks sake, let this lame thread die and quit "bumping" it for the childish and selfish need to see your own posts. The OP has abandoned it... let it go. I'm only responding since it's already at the top of the discussion queue.

yeah manhattanfox, listen to 1OneWon

my miele's 10 yrs and still going strong..worth every penny..

aboutready?

i guess your reading comprehension skills aren't so great. read the posts.

aboutready
11 days ago
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report abuse jpssuttonplace. how the f did you take "a glimpse of their living room" without their consent?

anyhoo. just a little piece of info, that may not be relevant in the slightest here. but back in the day when our child was a normal, rambunctious kid who liked to practice various gymnastic moves despite my pleas that she be still i lived in great fear of a tenant like you. you see, our daughter had extreme asthma. doctors will all tell you that floor coverings are one of the worst possible things for asthma. many buildings will tell parents they don't care. noise reduction is more important than your child avoiding the ER. or long-term steroid use.

Aboutready wants us all to feel badly for her asthmatic child. you're right, your comment has no bearing on the converstation, but it is fun to read the thread and see how you took it over anyway, and made it about you.

the 80% carpeting clause is in every standard lease. it's there to be enforced if occupants are noisy. asthma or no asthma.

Jimhones, how did you get blocked? Blocking is only for select repugnant people like me, columbiacounty and rufus. Why you? And why not other repugnant people like whoreready, violent Rhino, cheating 67th and Eddiesomewhereelse.

I bought a Hoover recently, and the maid seemed disappointed, which I thought was pretty funny. It does a fine job, and I like that it has bags for the dirt. At $70 at Best Buy, I could afford to replace it five or six times before I get to the cost of one beautiful Miele canister. Of course I won't have to: it should last 15 to 20 years. I won't give up on my Miele dishwasher which has been operating super quietly without a service call for 10 years, but I'll take the trusty Hoover upright vacuum any day. If anyone has ever tried to operate a Dyson, it may function great, but it is beyond intuition. Try explaining the Dyson operating procedures to temporary help if you haven't operated one in a while. If your over 35 years old you'll appreciate the design of the time tested Hoover.

Where's the carpet?

http://www.petercoopernyc.com/#/gallery/undefined/interiors/pcv_04_29904_shot_17_113_4

In the lease.

does 80% carpeting exclude the bathroom? could be a mess if you are forced to carpet the bathroom and then you have a lot of problems with the toilet.

hfsabout
8 minutes ago
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report abuse does 80% carpeting exclude the bathroom? could be a mess if you are forced to carpet the bathroom and then you have a lot of problems with the toilet.

80% of the floorspace of your apartment. kitchens and baths excluded. which means in most cases you probably have to cover 90% of the rest of the usable space. it is in every standard lease written in nyc, completely enforceable if deemed necessary

Split the difference and buy a bathroom mat in Home Depot

"Where's the carpet?

http://www.petercoopernyc.com/#/gallery/undefined/interiors/pcv_04_29904_shot_17_113_4"

***

Good point. Every single picture of the living/dining rooms and bedrooms is a lease violation.

aboutready, any final comments on your disregard for the rules and your neighbors?

Typically if you log a complaint about the 80% rule, the board should first check if you abide by the 80% first. So if you complain about the unit above, you must follow the rule yourself.

Rules don't apply to the aboutready family.

Also, I posted 7 weeks ago and columbiacounty gets all excited last night?:
hfscomm1
about 7 weeks ago
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aboutready, any final comments on your disregard for the rules and your neighbors?

columbiacounty
about 10 hours ago
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exciting nite for you, you fucking moron.

responding to aboutready:

jsmith9005
about 6 months ago
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report abuse "romary, again, PLEASE READ. i don't have an issue now. none"

Then why were you cursing everyone out in this thread? Here's just a sample of your diatribe:

"how the f did you take "a glimpse of their living room" without their consent?"
"how do you have a rats ass clue as to why they don't have floor coverings? "
"you're a tard. "
"btw, you're still a tard. no compassion."
"once again you're absolutely full of shit matt. absolutely. "
"maybe one day you'll have a kid with asthma. happy days!"
"do you get it now? your kid can be a fucking obnoxious loud nightmare "
"Matt, you are such an asshole. such an asshole."
"btw, you're a jerk of the highest order."
"good f'ng lord the assumptions here are crazy. maly, same for you."
"give me a f'ng break"
"and really. what an assholic thing to write"

jsmith really finds the gems.

On today's thread where aboutready wished us all "farewell", jsmith showed us a link from 2 years ago... a prior farewell from aboutready

jsmith9005
about 13 hours ago
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I think I've heard this before - http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/2496-the-sky-is-falling
Who wants to take an over/under that she posts again within 3 months?

aboutready
about 2 years ago
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report abuse I'm sure a number of you will be happy to see my departure (although Spunky, I will truly miss you) but I have found a number of real estate blogs where I don't even feel compelled to post very often, because I agree generally with what's being said (and they're run by real estate brokers, no less.) I'm sure that nervous habit, or excessive boredom, will cause me to check in once in awhile (particularly about specific buildings I might be interested in), but generally I find you guys to be storks with your heads so stuck in the sand its gotta cause some major itching.

New York IS different, just not THAT much. Bye, and good luck.

Anyone have a point of view on counties?

Anyone?

Anyone?

aboutready
about 1 hour ago
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sure

Oops, silly me, a slip, I meant
Anyone have a view on carpets?

someone quoted a sample of _______'s diatribe:

jsmith9005
about 8 months ago
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...
Then why were you cursing everyone out in this thread? Here's just a sample of your diatribe:

"how the f did you take "a glimpse of their living room" without their consent?"
"how do you have a rats ass clue as to why they don't have floor coverings? "
"you're a tard. "
"btw, you're still a tard. no compassion."
"once again you're absolutely full of shit matt. absolutely. "
"maybe one day you'll have a kid with asthma. happy days!"
"do you get it now? your kid can be a fucking obnoxious loud nightmare "
"Matt, you are such an asshole. such an asshole."
"btw, you're a jerk of the highest order."
"good f'ng lord the assumptions here are crazy. maly, same for you."
"give me a f'ng break"
"and really. what an assholic thing to write"

"how the f did you take "a glimpse of their living room" without their consent?"
"how do you have a rats ass clue as to why they don't have floor coverings? "
"you're a tard. "
"btw, you're still a tard. no compassion."
"once again you're absolutely full of shit matt. absolutely. "
"maybe one day you'll have a kid with asthma. happy days!"
"do you get it now? your kid can be a fucking obnoxious loud nightmare "
"Matt, you are such an asshole. such an asshole."
"btw, you're a jerk of the highest order."
"good f'ng lord the assumptions here are crazy. maly, same for you."
"give me a f'ng break"
"and really. what an assholic thing to write"

In response to the poster who said: "..and when you sign an agreement to purchase or rent and the rules are objectionable you negotiate and have them changed or go somewhere else. "

You do realize that New York housing laws are EXTREMELY in favor of the tenants right? There are no laws that require you to have carpeting. Even if you don't have any carpeting there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING the landlord can do about it unless you are causing a significant amount of disturbances.

The reason many if not all buildings don't enforce the carpeting rule is because there is nothing to enforce. If the landlord takes this to court the judge will laugh at him/her (unless of course you are causing disturbances to your neighbors.

All you pro-carpeting people seem to be forgetting one thing. What if it's still noisy and you have adequate carpeting? Then what?

""Where's the carpet?

http://www.petercoopernyc.com/#/gallery/undefined/interiors/pcv_04_29904_shot_17_113_4"

***

Good point. Every single picture of the living/dining rooms and bedrooms is a lease violation."

To be fair that looks like a model apartment.

Just another note. This whole 80% carpeting rule are more to safeguard landlords rather than tenants. You can clearly see this as none of them ever states what type of carpet you should have. It could literally be paper thin and it'll be alright. That right there should tell you something.

the 80% rule is more a coop thing than anything else. In a coop it is totally enforceable. It is a house rule that is agreed to when the coop is purchased. It is meant to minimize the noise transfer from apartment to apartment. It is an imperfect plan but it is better than nothing. A landlord might have an 80% rule written into the lease.

and in a co-op, if you refuse to abide by the house rules you can be evicted. Yes, evicted--forced to sell.

and in a co-op, if you refuse to abide by the house rules you can be evicted. Yes, evicted--forced to sell.