155 West 11th Street
3 sales•2 rentals
Decades ago, Coops successfully lobbied to be in a different tax class than single family homes. Unfortunately it terribly backfired. If not for that, none of this would be an issue.
Yes, I agree that this is basically an unfortunate consequence of trying to make the city's innumerable abatements that relate to people (veteran, primary resident, whatever) work for co-ops.
I still think there are many reasonable arguments against the system:
Although the tax bill has the corporations name on it, the tax benefits letter breaks out abatements to individual shareholders - so it is in effect an obfuscated tax on the individuals, and *only* the individuals, because the corporation just assesses it anyway, and those individuals should have the ability to manage their own tax affairs.
Alternatively, if one argues that the property is owned by the coop corporation, then fine - coop corporations can't be veterans, primary residents, or whatever other favored classes of natural people that exist, so those classes of abatements can't apply to coops or their shareholders.
Why should co-op corporations be compelled to pay managing agents to keep track of which of its shareholders and residents are in any of the government's favored classes? If the city wants to provide a system of abatements for these people, then great - they can administer it for themselves.
Presumably this outcome of invalidating the abatements would lead to pressure to to come up with a sensible tax system that recognized that a huge amount of real estate in NYC is not owned by natural people, and less of the abatement mess that exists today.
It seems a double standard that the city gets to "see through" / "pierce the veil" of the corporation to find out about residents, but the residents can't "see through" in the other direction to verify that they're being taxed correctly. Surely it should work both ways, or no ways?
I agree with everything bryantpark says. I have owned two coops in NYC over the past 10 years and neither did I not get the rebate for the first two years. I was till charged the amount of the rebate as an assessment by the coop so there was really no incentive on the part of the management company to ensure that it was all sorted out properly and in a timely manner.
I think a large part of the problem is built into the Cooperative form of quasi ownership. Coop shareholders do not actually own any Real Property. The only parcel, tax bill, etc. is that owned by the Coop Corporation. It's only fairly recently that individual Coop sales were even recorded. My guess is that if any individual shareholder(s) did decide to bring it to court, it might get defended with a privity claim.
The whole system for cooperative abatements is really stupid - these are the main problems:
A basic lack of transparency - shareholders are charged on the basis of the contents of Cooperative Property Tax Abatement Change Form submitted by their managing agent. They never see this, and lack the opportunity to sanity check for correctness prior to submission, because it goes straight from the managing agent to the DOF. Any correspondence with the DOF tends to get redirected back to the managing agent.
This makes shareholders completely dependent on the managing agent to get their abatements right, and makes it almost impossible for them to verify or correct any issues.
The managing agent has no incentive to get this right or make it easy, since the shareholder will get assessed and have to follow up on any and all problems. This sweet arrangement gives managing agents they can bill for, since shareholders can’t do it for themselves, without bearing any actual responsibility.
Also, there’s an unnecessary and confusing lag built into this system. As an example, the 2015/2016 Cooperative Property Tax Abatement Change Form was due February 15, 2016 - but is only for "changes of ownership or eligibility of cooperative units on or before January 5, 2015". By the time the form is due, the data is guaranteed to already be over 13 months old, and even older by the time the benefits and assessments get issued.
The needless lag and complexity are a bad combination. It’s more or less guaranteed that a shareholder will have a problematic first 2 or so years of ownership, and unlikely that attorneys or managing agents will be able to actually work this out at closing correctly. Far more likely is getting hit with the previous owner’s setup (if nothing else, you’d think the DOF could “reset” the abatement back to the defaults when they see an ACRIS filing).
For your first year or two of ownership, you could ask the managing agent if they have everything worked out, and either they wouldn’t have even had to submit it yet, or they would have submitted it and you’d have no way of finding out whether they “forgot” you - until, eventually, you find out the hard way - an assessment.
Is there any chance that this whole system is not just needlessly complex and poorly administered, but could actually be challenged legally for any one of these reasons? Any attorneys or law students looking for an interesting case?
I’m no tax protester, I’m happy to pay whatever the going rate is, but I think I should have the ability to submit and verify my own information for assessment, and have the assessment made in a timely fashion, like 3-6 months later, not 13 months.
By 1929, Henry Mandel owned the city block bounded by Ninth and Tenth Avenues and 23rd and 24th streets. The land was once owned by Clement Clark Moore, who wrote ‘T was the Night Before Christmas, and was located across from the fashionable Millionaire’s Row. Mandel hired the architectural firm of Farrar & Watmaugh to design the massive complex, which was built in two phases.
The central structure, comprised of ten adjoining buildings, was completed in 1930. A year later the four imposing corner structures were added. The complex contained 1665 apartments comprised of 4.000 residential rooms. Mandel’s dream was grander still.
He filled London Terrace with state-of-the-art amenities that included: a 75′ x 35′ pool, an acre of gardens, a building-wide intercom system, on site shopping, a free page-boy service, a telephone message service, a penthouse community room, a roof top play area for children, a deck exclusively for children and another roofdeck furnished like it was located on a ocean liner. The pool, roofdeck, gardens and intercom system are still in use today.
Acclaimed and ambitious, the dream eventually killed its creator. The Great Depression struck just as Mandel started to build, forcing the developer into foreclosure in 1934. Mandel jumped to his death from atop his dream building, leaving the elegant London Terrace in a financial mess that took almost fifteen years and four banks to clear up.
In 1948, the building was divided into two parts and sold to separate management companies. The Kriesel family bought the corner towers and the ten middle buildings were sold to four partners, which included two electrician brothers and a mason. The towers went co-op in 1989 and the center buildings, known as London Terrace Gardens, remain as rental units to this day.
You can find more info and news about London Terrace on my website:
That's a pretty good list. Some might quibble with your rankings here and there, but a good list regardless.
What are the best streets in Southampton Village and does that translate into actual differences in property values? By best street, I am referring to the quality of the streets' homes (visual appeal), the natural beauty of the road, if any, and the landscaping provided by the homes on the street.
In summary, which streets are the very nicest to look at / drive down:
I have created this ranked list, but would like to get other people's point of view on the ranking and property values:
First Neck Lane
Ox Pasture Road
South Main Street
Halsey Neck Lane
Great Plains Road
Captains Neck Lane
Coopers Neck Lane
Little Plains Road
Interesting this thread last for a full year. And on the other hand, my comments are moderated.
Why can't they just have their own door for the poor people to use to keep them separate?
wait so there is no roof deck or a BBQ area? So if I had ten people over, we'd need to shell out $1K just to hang out?
the only issue i have with this building is i am a member of lifetime and i can only have guests once every 6 months. That means when friends come over and want to grab a bite at the cafe or get a spa service with me they have to pay $40 each time i think its a bit unfair considering there are no communal spaces in the bldg whatsoever :( hope you guys make a open options for lifetime fitness members and tenants so we can have a lounge area for guests no actually using the gym
@Snuffles - quite possible. For uwsnewbie2015, I'd also suggest keeping a detailed written timeline, and make sure there's an email with a date that comes out of every conversation.
That way, when your next annual meeting comes up, you'll be well placed to ask your manager and board why it takes them 3 months, 6 months, whatever, to get this done.
don't know your building, but did they 'suggest' that you use a particular contractor/architect, etc? Its possible they get kickbacks and so are pissed you didn't "use their guy" and so will do everything to make it miserable for you to use anybody else in hopes that you cave and just use "their suggested" guys....
Btw, Who is the managing agent?
Just go to board president or a board member and request them to get it done. Hold back on the loud complaint.
@hofo - I guess that would work if the boss is competent, but in my case he's a big part of the problem, and frankly some (definitely not all) of his underlings are much better.
Definitely a lot of the front-line management staff are pretty demoralized (I would be, too). For the most part, they're just not efficient people, and have a high turnover. It's not worth getting angry or complaining about - I just ask nicely once, and then the next step is to go to their office to "follow up", i.e. watch them do it. Keep a record of everything, because they won't, and then you have a paper trail ready to hand over to the board in due course.
Price of 275k seems high for a 200 square foot room. The down payment alone (not considering co-op liquidity requirements and closing costs) is 55k. Is this being marketed more as a pied-à-terre?
Perhaps they wanted to market the combo for a little while before deciding to do the renovation since it would have been wasted on anyone buying both.
They are trying to sell this with the 1 bedroom next door. Maybe the 1 bedroom sold on its own or they just want to discourage bids on studio alone. the combo is still listed as available for $750K, and honestly even with a gut renovation needed, a studio with a reasonable maintenance in a well kept elevator building for $275K is not unreasonable.
Could you have done the same renovation for less than 25k? (probably not, considering carrying costs between post-closing and renovation completion). Not that there's a lot to renovate there.
Completel gut renovation doesn't stop them from increasing the asking price by 25000
Beware of the unethical landlord/owner of this building. He first asked me to bring a certified check and the signed lease in exchange for the keys after accepting my offer. But then he canceled on my way there after another renter came in offering all months up front. The apartment was not getting a lot of attention but he used my offer to get a better deal. I get capitalism but that's just slimy. It's not even that nice of a place. I dodged a bullet. Good luck with your dirty business tactics and finding a loyal tenant.
In my midsize building, $20 for any task, since overtipping for several short ones (like snaking a drain) evens out for undertipping for the few longer ones (like appliance repair). Thanks to the tips he also prioritizes me for buildingwide services, too, like HVAC cleaning.
I'm with 3oo_mercer / c0lumbiac0unty, except 50 for the hour.
Is he a live-in super? If so, your maintenance/common charges are going towards his free housing to have around for things like this. I just see it as part of what you pay for, not just servicing common elements. I do give generously at end of year though. But your scale sounds reasonable if you want to give something. :)
CC, It is technical not building's responsibility to maintain your toilet or leaky faucet in your apartment if it is a condo or coop (rentals are different). To me, super is doing a little extra beyond maintaining the common elements and infrastructure of the building. Since he is doing it on building's time, he should not be paid like a for hire handyman but should be something. My thinking is $20 for small 10-15 minute service. $40 per hour after that.
I only tip end of year. The whole point of a super is to maintain/fix things in the building. Otherwise you wouldn't bother having a super and would just call an individual handyman service every time something was needed. Maybe I am a cheapskate? If it was something cosmetic like helping you install blinds I would tip, but not for normal repairs/maintenance.
Please be advice that the place is listed as pet friendly but has a maximum weight policy for dogs.
Hope in the future they be more clear first hand.
"operation fee:$1000, expedite fee:$500, lease admin fee:$1250, credit report fee:$150, application processing fee:$700, move-in security fee:$500, move-out security fee:$500." ---Those are fees charged when you apply for the rental. I am wondering what work they do exactly to charge this ridiculous amount of money to just admit you in!!!!!!
looks like amateurish BS...
I wanted to know if anyone has tried this 'off-market' service and what their experience was like?
Click the "contact owner" button on the page.
how to communicate with the owner of #11C apartment ?
So when you gut the bathroom, the building comes in and replaces the risers on floor by floor basis?
The building is very proactive in replacing building plumbing. Over 60% of the risers have been replaced. The building requires purchasers of apartments in original condition to gut renovate the bathroom and kitchen so the building can replace the original building plumbing.
In much older buildings, they most likely need the plumbing in back of walls replaced, checked out/add shutoff valves. Best time to do that is when walls are down. Granted if the building is that old, its main pipes will have issues as well, but I guess they do what they can.
What does a "full and complete renovation" of the bathroom mean?
If it means removing all the fixtures as well as retiling, it surely seems unreasonable to dictate exactly what kind of renovation a buyer should do within their own space. A 1920s original bathtub is deeper and longer than most tubs available nowadays, and some people like the original style of a pedestal sink.
Does it really make sense to force people to rip all this out just because the board decides it's necessary?
I have to chime in here. I know this board also REQUIRES buyers to do a full and complete renovation of the bathroom. This also should be reflective of ask price. All elements are important when buying a new property.
Exactly, 30 - 12.5% is nothing, just tack it on to any rental.
Percentage wise it's 12.5% more. If there were 2 smaller apartment, 1 for $7.000 without terraces and the same apartment for $7,875 with terraces would it seem like that big a deal?
Worth it to me.
Interesting that the building only has 3 BRs and up.
Did they miss this year's window though for families moving to TriBeCa? 10% price chop on the most expensive apt.
Worth it to me.
Interesting strategy to have a building only with 3BRs and up.
Check the ugly thing that it's planned to be built next door...
The "Contact Agent" button points to (212) 799-3492.
I'm very Interest in this apt. And need to talk to a representative. Why they is no contact information ?
Who do I talk to ?
Some people live under bridges.
Teich, To my point earlier, some people live in common areas.
what can I say. The first plan you link to has two doors to terrace. If one is difficult for you, just use the other. The second seems big enuf to me----and all those closets! I like it. And, it is certainly chacun a son gout, but I love the lobby with that amazing staircase and the really beautiful central courtyard. It feels bold and beautiful---refreshing after seeing too many L-shaped studios.
Chacun a son gout Joandark, but come on, in the studios, even with "alcove", some cannot accommodate a full let alone queen bed against any wall without an adjacent door to the terrace (here: http://cdn-img0.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/16/214227516.jpg?_ga=1.221464400.976394169.1466278523 ) or that annoying column (here: http://cdn-img3.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/23/209118223.jpg?_ga=1.151750129.976394169.1466278523 ). Practical and handsome are not really the right adjectives if you're seeking to praise the floor plans -- how about idiosyncratic and unique! And absurd! And hahaha! to fieldschester, yes, this is such a schlep to any subway I guess the offered shuttle is mandatory.
I had a completely different response. I loved the non-cookie cutter floorplans. I thought the kitchens were---generally, floorplans differ!---practical and handsome. The various nooks and angles suggested using the spaces in ways not dictated by the architect, but up to the user. Also, I thought the terraces were configured in ways that made them actually usable, unlike the empty balconies hanging off so many buildings.
Remember there is going to be a larger per floor increase in price at a "break floor" where floor plans change and/or the unit clears surrounding buildings and the view improves substantially.
^^Meant 1100 sq ft 2 BR.
Odd pricing in this building. This is priced way off from the 1100 sq ft 1 BR in the building going at 1.3m. Even if you give a generous $20k allowance per floor for the higher floor, the price is still 100-150k over what it should be compared to the smaller unit. Is that tiny terrace the justification?
What is the normal price increase to go up per floor?
This is not the real price!! we were about to rent it, made the deposit, submitted our paperwork and suddenly the landlord decides to charge 2,700 instead.
Oops url didn't work, here is the url to the photos - http://bit.ly/2a8hBom
Does anyone here know anyone with experience in building brick to brick decks using metal framing with wood top?
We are looking to replace our current deck (technically a terrace as it is a setback over a lower roof) but only interested in companies that can do a brick to brick metal frame as the current one “rests” on the roof below and we don't want the new one to do this.
The current deck is about 10x22 and some photos are here
http://www.collins.net.pr/Photo/House photos/135 Henry St, Brooklyn/3. Final Outcome/slides/2009-26-06 19-56-22.htm
Let me know if you have someone you want to recommend or post details if you've had this done.
My email address 'dean'at'collins'dot'net'pr'