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My calculations were a little different. Based on Streeteasy's comparables tool, my apartment is already worth about 20% more than I spent all in, whereas if my renovation had cost twice as much, I would still be upside down. I agree that these differences diminish over time and that as long as you can afford it, you should choose what makes you happy and not worry about ROI. Tastes vary, and you can never count on someone else valuing the same things as you do. Any way, my main point in posting was not to argue over whose taste is more refined but just to respond to the OP's original question with my experience so that he/she can consider the various alternatives for a project of this scale.
I agree with you multi: I actually saw part of the expenditures on fancier finishes as a bit of an insurance policy. If I need to move in 5 or 10 years those things will matter on resale. If I spend 25 years there it won't matter bc a buyer will most rip them out regardless. Meanwhile I get to enjoy them and my personal utility curve tends toward the higher quality finishes. Alex:: I agree there is a middle ground too obviously but for me I didn't think the savings was worth it between good and outstanding, especially not in my neighborhood.
I fall somewhat between Primer05 and bfgross. While labor is labor and materials are only a proportion of the total bill, I am pretty sure my contractor charged "profit and overhead" as a percentage of the entire contract, so there would be a bit of a ripple effect for expensive finishes. Also, it's not as if there's nothing between La Cornue and Waterworks on the one hand and Kmart on the other... I take exception to my renovation being compared to a diet coke, lol! I think a better comparison is a Porsche 911 vs a Bugatti Veyron.
@bfgross - Thank you for sharing your experience. Your experience is consistent with mine (much smaller scale); the materials are nothing compared to the labor. When you are doing a renovation of the scale you are talking about, why penny pinch on the finishes? It would be like ordering a diet coke with a big mac or putting flimsy tires on a high performance automobile.
If you do a gut renovation and the GC bill is 1MM, your labor is going to comprise 60% profit another 15% leaving maybe 25% for materials, so I could spend 250k for really high end and the next guy could spend 150k, saving 40% off my spend, but the total bill savings might only be 10%. Got it?
You mean their calling the building "Park Grandeur" doesn't quite describe it?
No landlord-provided heat is pretty standard for old walk-up tenements like that. The law says hot water has to be provided, so that's all the landlord pays for. They do have to provide the means of space heating, and so give you the mini-split system you can run as you like.
Your story reminds me of my own tenement days, living above Second Ave. That apartment hadn't been tarted up with stainless-steel appliances and marble windowsills, though, so we didn't expect more than the bare minimum from the landlord. At least there we didn't have Metro-North trains roaring by every few minutes.
I am writing this comment to warn all future potential renters to stay away from this building. I had been a renter at this apt for a full year lease and I must say this has been my worst experience in my 20 years of living in New York. Please note the building DOES NOT provide HEAT. The heater/AC unit was together and I paid $250-300 on average every months. If I had known beforehand, I wouldn’t have rented. In addition, the management is the worst. They never fix problems on time and always came up with excuses. There was toilet/poop water leaking from the apt above through the ceiling of my bathroom for months. They also once sent “someone” into my apt (not knowing what they were doing) without any notice, and admitted only after I said I would call the police to report the case. There were also times when the alarm in the building was set off for the entire night, and no one came to shut it off until the next morning. There is little security in the building considering the location of it. Outside was constantly loud and smelly due to the 24/7 restaurant right next door. Lastly, even when I moved out, they deducted a “cleaning fee” when I had cleaned up every corner of the apt in spotless condition. They didn’t mention any of it during the move out day inspection and I only found out from the refund check. All in all, save yourself the headache and stress if you are looking at this apt. There are better and cheaper ones in East Harlem.
If your listing was off the market for 90 days or more, we will be able to change the days on market to match the day that it was re-listed. However, if your listing was off of the market for less than 90 days, the best thing to do is to create a whole new listing for the property and mark the current listing as 'no longer available'. If you have any further questions we would be more than happy to help you. Just reach out to email@example.com and one of our team members will answer your inquiry as soon as possible!
My listing on street easy has been on the site for about 273 days and lots of clients brokers are asking me why why why .
There is any way to remove that to a 7 days or fresh listing ?
Can I remove this listing and build a new one ?
Or just wait for SE to pick up the sale, and it'll show on the building's Past Sales page.
ACRIS is http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/CP/
By "taxes paid" I meant the RE transaction tax paid when a deed is recorded. On an old condo deed you'll find a stamp where the amounts were written in. Take the biggest amount and divide by 0.004 and you'll get the closing price upon which tax was paid.
That's just for old stuff, which is no good for the current market anyway. For anything in recent years, ACRIS has an explicit closing amount.
thanks but I think I need an acronym key. Can you go by the tax assessment/property assessment. Is it me or does everyone have a vested interest in propping up prices... brokers / check; the city / check ... they all have a vested interest in getting you to over spend on a house or get you to think something's more value than what it is. Incidentally Harley prices in the last few years are unreal for brownstone if I'm reading this correctly. Like literally 1 10 bagger from a house! =O
https://www.urbandigs.com - SE has them, cityrealty has it, urbandigs has it, after that its a matter of what NWT says, merging the sale with rls listing info and on top of that its listing discount/days on mkt, stats like that which can vary from site to site based on how each cleansed the integrity issues within rls..rls is basically the mls of Manhattan, stands for rebny listing service and is how brokers share listing info in manhattan
I don't know whether to pay up for the front hallway wallpaper, or insist on a discount. Probably a discount as the installation highlights how ugly the doors are. I would have covered all surfaces with the paper.
And 'bad broker' for listing it as a 'loft', just because the ceilings are a bit higher than usual. Maybe that's how they justigy the extra 2m.
It looks like 6k sold for 4,600,000 earlier this year. This (7K) was listed for $7,700,000 and now dropped to $6,750,000 but does anyone really think it will sell even close to this listing price? I guess it only takes one buyer who really wants the place regardless of price, but wow.
If you broke your lease rather than terminating with the landlord's consent, not only are you not going to get your security deposit back, you may be taken to court to pay the remainder of the rent due under the lease. If you sub-leased the place, you aren't getting your deposit back until your tenant moves out and you return the apt to your landlord.
I'm wondering if anyone else has had difficulty receiving their security deposit back from MGT Management, the company that runs 500 Sterling Place. I had an absolutely horrible experience living at 500 Sterling and moved out after only 6 months. It's now been 3 months since I left and I still haven't received my security deposit back.
1. where are you looking
2. and are you looking for a studio or something smaller
My job. Chronic saver here.
Cashbuyer, out of curiosity, what is the source of all that cash?
Sorry fieldschester, I wasn't asking for help finding a neighborhood. You've been very helpful on this thread so far. Thanks so much.
Interesting, you rejected a neighborhood without telling us which neighborhood actually does suit you.
You just ask your question and let everyone just respond for your pleasure?
Anyone who responds further to cashbuyer2015 is an idiot.
I made an offer on a place with a 2 pet limit. I told them I had 3 cats up front during the interview. One I "inherited" from a relative; the cat was elderly and in bad health. The Board said this wasn't a problem. They would be more concerned if we had 3 large dogs or animals that made a lot of noise. Some boards are not as rigid about the rules as others.
I share your attorney's sentiments and I say this as a broker. You should not lie. Not only does it have the potential to land you in a courtroom but also, assuming you are approved with the lie, do you really want to play hide and seek throughout your time in the coop? No place, regardless how exceptional, is worth the incessant stress you would be welcoming every time you vacate the cat from the apartment. You are buying an apartment in NYC, which is a beautiful accomplishment. It should be celebrated and cheered. Instead you would be walking in hesitant and doubtful having known you started this relationship based on a lie. So my advice is ask your broker (not seller’s) to reach out to management and get a firm answer on pet policy. Your broker or attorney can also make an appointment with the management office and speak to them in person if there are any unwritten rules which cannot be communicated via email. At the end of the day, if the answer is a firm 2 pets, walk away and continue your search elsewhere. What’s meant to be yours will be yours. I wish you good luck in achieving the best outcome in this situation!
No pets is NO pets
Yes, the Board could try to take action against someone who sneaks in an extra cat. But is the Board really going to spend the time and money to hire a lawyer, etc. in order to do so? Odds are low, unless it's a widespread problem impacting the building (e.g., crazies with nine cats, multiple yapping dogs, etc.), and the Board goes after all violators.
The Board can certainly threaten to evict the tenants or cancel the Proprietary Lease, but the odds that it will actually be able to do over a second cat are basically zero.
Lying would be beyond stupid. The board could cancel your lease, remember a co-op "owner" is just a renter who happens to have equity interest in the landlord's company.
What we almost did--but ended up not having to do--was have our attorney put a rider in the contract that protected us if we were rejected because of pet issues. Atty offered to do this.
Your bigger problem is that the seller will pass on you. Why take a chance in this market?
See the latest NYT article on the value of outdoor space:
It's a condo, not a sorority. I'm with jelj.
Exactly, IRL is no fun.
But those're same-floor roof decks, where you walk right out from your own living room.
The value difference between having and not having a common roof deck, where you have to leave your apartment, take the elevator to the top floor, then climb a flight of stairs, is probably less than the OP imagines. Then there're the other owners lying in wait up there, wanting to be engaged with....
SimonHHH: You have to keep your emotions out of this. A roof deck is an extremely valuable piece of property. Either the PH resident has legal proof that it is his or he doesn't. Once you've raised this question, even just in your own mind, you're already feeling resentment towards this resident. Since the "ownership" of the roof affects the value of your apartment and the added value of building amenities, you have to keep that foremost in your mind.
In my building, we have similar apartments with no terraces, 2 terraces, and a huge roof deck. The spread on the actual sales among the 3 was well over 1 million dollars.
I had a relative who rented the back half of the ground floor plus the garden in a brownstone. The new owner threw construction debris out of the windows of upper floor apartment into her garden. Apparently the former owner claimed she was not renting the space; she was maintaining it because the only access to the backyard was through her apartment. Her lease clearly showed that she had exclusive use of the garden as part of her rent. Her lawyer took care of this immediately and the new owner had to pay for damages to her garden. They also had to haul away the construction debris in the garden by hoisting it through the parlor floor apartment rather than her apartment .
Your Board should have the roof, parapets, façade, etc. inspected for preventive maintenance on the building. They HAVE TO review and approve any plans to the roof since any changes to it affect the whole building. Things are going to become even uglier if the resident puts in a roof deck without the proper approval.
Their's a limit to how low a seller can unload their apartment
Wanderer: Useful info, and well worth the time to read. Thanks!
here you go, might not be the latest info but it gives you a good idea of what the board can do.
The board may reject the proposed sale, as it diminishes the value of all the apartments in the building (or, more accurately, the values of shares in the corporation). Your contract contains a statement that the contract between you and the seller is contingent upon the board's approval of you and the contract terms, so yes, the co-op can keep the contract from being completed (if the contract doesn't, you need a better lawyer). If your application has been denied, it is unlikely they're going to invite you for an interview. Your broker should speak with the sellers broker who can maybe suss it out with the seller and the board to ensure that the board isn't mis-reading the sellers concession as a reduction in the price per share. If the board is holding to a particular price per share, you can either pay up, or walk.
Separately, why on earth would you not have market comps in front of you when you made your offer?
Not an expert at all but weren't boards left and right rejecting sales prices that were too low during the credit recession of 2008-2009?
It's important to have a Board with high standards .
I would submit that a "strict" board is good , even when sellers complain that they can't sell ( they were happy buying with the same standards though)
Move. Good time to sell, rent a while and do more research before buying again. Worked fine for us.
Why don't you join the board and convince some like minded people to join you. Effect change from within.
I would sell right now after 1 year here, except spouse won't agree (commute's too good/hates to move). But I'm sure either the board will change or we will be gone in a few years.
Looking back, pre purchase, the only clues were: building not clean relative to its price point ($950 square foot low floor currently); numerous small neglected jobs around the building (leaking outdoor faucet pulled out of wall, failure to keep things painted, smelly trash area with houseflies); board involved in a stupid lawsuit.
Good question. Given all the seemingly endless problems where I live now?.....yes, the strict, slightly crazy UES co-op was better than this.
Then there're lots of small-time developers out in Brooklyn who built would-be condos during the last boom, got 421a, got caught in the bust and rented them out instead, but neglected to tell tenants they were RS: http://nyti.ms/1PxsHw7
These are cases where someone takes advantage of the middle class , due to shortsighted policies
CIpriani guy, Peter Cooper Village lady, all unfairly benefitting at cost to other taxpayers.
The Cipriani guy's apartment being RS is a great example of the magic of 421-a.
The rental unit there at 450 W 42nd gets a 20-year tax abatement. This year Related is paying $273,000 rather than $5,500,000. In return, the apartments have to be rent-stabilized. What's great for Related is, the base rents
started so high, so they get the benefit of no taxes while not taking a hit on income. The tenants do get the benefit of guaranteed lease renewals, so it's not entirely one-sided.
I lost count of the Cipriani guy's cases. Lots, NYS and federal.
NYS does have a 50-hour pro-bono requirement for admittance to the bar. Then your biannual fees go to indigent legal services.
A lot of lawyers do pro-bono work, but there's no requirement. A big firm's website will list what they're involved in.
If you're a lawyer at a storefront in Ridgewood, reduced to representing notoriety-seeking comedians, pro-bono might not be high on your due-to-society list.
That Burton character sounds like quite the so-and-so.
amazing that this is still going on
that's an unreal story
Story in today's paper about why it hasn't hit the market: http://nyti.ms/1KBR7km
I'd love to see the floorplan of the apartment but it's 13 months since Helen left the building. Hmmm . . .
Escrow is the answer
There is a way to find out ahead of time if the co-op board will require the purchaser to hold the $$$ in escrow or just show it on financial statements by checking with the management company. Just because the board has this policy in place - it does not automatically make them fussy.
is the $50,000 in United States Dollars, or in some strange foreign currency http://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/33006-f-coops
What neighborhood is this in?
jelj13 ... what does your comment have to do with this thread ?
I lived in a newly constructed condo with the latest and greatest state of the art roof. It failed throughout the city wherever this style roof was installed, even in a building across the street built by a different developer. We had 3 new roofs within 15 years until we finally found the proper replacement. The first roof was a replacement from the manufacturer. The second was a re-do of the replacement along with parapet work. The third was a totally redesigned roof that finally worked! We had 3 different managing agents during that time frame.
I leave live at M at beekman the Board and Grogan management are fixing the roof again the building as we now know is only 7 years old I have an novel idea do the right once instead of patch and hide more cost effective less water damage to rest of the building in my opinion the present board M at Beekman and Grogan management are killing this building .From my experience the truth comes out any covert or illegal activity are punished one man or woman stands for principle in time others will join the founding fathers and brunch of farmers beat at the British who were the world super power at the time
sounds like every street in NYC
Certainly no New Yorker should have to live like this, ever: Construction. Noise. Increased prices. Old buildings and infrastructure. Ridiculous! I'd recommend C0lumbia C0unty except they also have old falling apart buildings and people.
I lived in this building for a year. Do not rent here. First, you will be surrounded by major construction until at least early 2017. There are two large apartment buildings being constructed on this block (W 77 b/w Amsterdam and Broadway). So the construction noise is a nearly constant problem from 7 AM to 6 PM weekdays and Saturdays. In addition, the landlord cheap and uncaring. This is an old building with frequent problems (e.g., elevator breaks down, leaks, etc.), and yet the landlord seems only concerned with trying to raise rent as much as possible, even on long term tenants and even amidst the constant construction. That is why the turnover is so high. So while this building has potential and the apartments have a decent amount of space, you will likely regret renting here, especially if you do it anytime before Spring 2017.
I thought NYC and the hotel lobby were suing AirBNB , is there an update on that ?
NYC wants the hotel taxes , hotels want their monopoly
>I live in a well-established, large condominium building in San Francisco with very strict rules.
Riccardo, you are so establishment
tell us more
@deanc - no, it's not a lost profits case - too speculative - there's a "reasonable certainty" standard that needs to be met,
@NYC_sport could that also include potential future profits on the property sale......seems weird there wouldn't be a limit.
The usual form of a sale contract limits the seller's remedies to forfeiting the deposit, but does not limit the buyer's remedies. If that is what your contract provides, then you could sue for specific performance or damages, assuming all conditions to closing are satisfied and the seller refuses to close -- a fairly big assumption. Your damages would be the same as in any breach of contract case -- basically the amount needed to return you to the position you would be in absent the breach.
Let's say coop board is immune to poison by seller and grants interview.
major yo-yo this week
Yeah, right back where it was at the end of 2013 and down 10% from where it was 6 months ago.
Oh what a horrible week for the stock market, look where it ended up.
@Streetsmart, I wouldn't believe too much what I read about the Chinese and Australia.
Basically its a phony PR story being driven by politicians to explain away why Sydney and Melbourne have such high property prices.
In other words.....looks at the hand, nothing up my sleeve, blame the boogey man (or in this instance the big bad Chinese).
The reason Syd/Mel has high prices is every man and his dog in Australia wants to live in one or the other and NO ONE wants to live anywhere else, eg imagine America if you had a choice of LA (eg Sydney) and NY (being Melbourne in this story) and no one wanted to live in Colorado/Boston/Charlestown etc etc......
(you also have Miami eg Brisbane.....but only old people and Gucci loafer wearing people head to Brisbane/Gold Coast).
Until Australia grows up and starts having 20 different viable cities.......its always going to be expensive/the Chinese fault :)
US Tobacco, good company. No smoke! Unlike the Chinese.
540 feet seems about right , I think
When looking at lines in certain buildings I've been amused to watch square footage appreciate along with price over time. I saw one jump slowly from 600 to 750 over 10 years.
To NWT, interesting. This apt last sold in 2010, and the sales record suggests 450 sq. ft. That suggest this price is about $1,254 per sq. ft.!!!
This is really funny: I went to see the reverse layout unit in this building around 3 years ago.
It was also on a low floor, but it felt quite spacious to me, save for the EXTREMELY tiny kitchen.
But it had the same exposure & nice garden / courtyard view. The building was very well kept, with a beautiful lobby, nice gym & Mario Cuomo as one of it's residents.
Unfortunately, it was a bit out of budget for me - otherwise I most definitely would've purchased it. Always wanted to live on Sutton or Beekman Place!
Beekman Place taste on a Bensonhurst budget...sigh...
No. See the reversed plan at http://cdn-img1.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/41/41277441.gif?_ga=1.259562314.119960580.1436392453
It's maybe 520 ft². You should compare the place against similar studios, not against other 600 ft² apartments.