Streeteasy Discussion Board Suggestions

1) Free to browse talk for everyone
2) major credit card is required to post to talk but it is free for 100 (pick a number) posts per month. Each additional is .01. The numbers don't really matter here, having the credit card info solves the issue I believe.
3) insiders can post as many times as they would like

Streeteasy then has the credit card numbers of all posters and can manage offenders according to published guidelines

I hate that it has come to this, I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to this site, but it is way out of control.

JM, I haven't heard back from SE about a very similar proposal I made ... but it's the only answer. The critical part is to have an umbilical cord between a real person and that real person's ONE username.

Alan + Juiceman. Good ideas!! Anything that encourages responsibility and accountability.

I wouldn't give out my credit card number in order to post. IMDB.com is an example of a site that requires a credit card to post, and that's why I don't post on there. I don't feel comfortable giving out my credit card number... I think verifying via text message is better, and probably less of a liability for Streeteasy (so they don't have all those credit card numbers), though I could be wrong.

It's a tough one Alanhart. There have been zero success stories moving from free to paid forums and when done, it decimates the user base. Most paid forums stared out that way (wsj and espn come to mind). Streeteasy has a difficult decision to make, get rid of the trolls and potentially alienate a loyal user base or live with the trolls. I don't envy the decision.

Avery, that's the dilemma. You are not alone. They have lots of credit card numbers today, you need to give them one to be a insider.

The "paid" I'm talking about is basically the breakeven for handling credit card processing. And not debit/gift cards, which have the same problem as mobile phones (i.e. text confirmation) ... you can get them anonymously at any bodega or the like, for a song.

I'm sure there will be a few who won't want to be bothered with the credit-card thing, but after a dropoff there'll be a critical mass of participants (probably).

Most of the other proposals I've heard will result in a vast desert ... like a certain DIY home-improvement site (Bob Vila?) with tens of thousands of threads asking questions, and either no reply or replies that are merely more (sometimes tangentially-related) questions.

Just look at poor ephraim tonight. Even the biggest critics of aboutready, etc., can't be bothered to answer the few clearly asked questions that are very much in the realm of their experience. Glass houses, stones.

1. Definitely take a look at slashdot. Also DailyKos. Since it's a politically oriented blog, it has to deal with lots of trolls.
2. Introduce tags to the comment threads. This would help newbies find old discussions that cover topics they are interested in. They can then add their own additional questions to those threads. I think we end up seeing the same questions repeated every 6 months. You could also improve the search functionality for the comments section to be a bit more flexible.
3. Introduce a longer list of topics (including, say, general "market commentary" and allow us to filter the discussions page by which topics we are interested in. Having a separate topic for discussions of specific properties would also be helpful. I would also make that link more prominent because I think it's one of the more underused features of the site.
4. Not related to the discussions, but I would love to be able to create a search, and then see the results historically. Like, what would I have gotten if I'd done the same search 6 months ago

Anyone know if the cell phone idea has been tried? I know the Credit Card one has and alanhart is right, it will decimate your discussions. Consider this-as longer term posters here, we might not think twice about a more difficult registration process. However, it becomes a huge barrier for people who are new and don't know how valuable this site can be. It will cause them to move on rather quickly.

Suggestion: Posters should simply be civil to each other. IMO, it's fine to disagree & joke around, but hurtful personal attacks should be banned.

SE could write up an "oath" that the poster must agree to before being able to post. I've seen it on other boards.

I would vote for the mobile phone verification if it is feasible. However, a point. You might be able to circumvent that type of verification system with Skype or Gvoice. I don't know. I've never tried, but it is worth looking in to how easy it would be to use Skype or google to generate a bunch of numbers before you spend a lot of time building a mobile phone authentication system.

One simple idea is to add hierarchical threading to the discussions: I think this might be the simplest solution with the greatest impact. Voting and rating is hard to do right, but threading is pretty simple. If the main problem is that threads veer off course, that would allow threads to veer off course, but readers uninterested in the off topic thread would have a visual clue as to where the main conversation picks back up. (If you add hierarchical collapsible threads, it makes it even easier.)

I think the mobile phone text is a good idea. I also participate in a forum on Costa Rica real estate. They have a strict one user name per IP address, not sure how easy this is to circumvent? But when I tried to create a new user account it would not let me until I contacted the site admin.

Hi wishhouse, long time no!

You confused my position -- the credit card thing will temporarily slow things down, but ultimately not. Creative destruction.

Cellphones are not a practical solution because anyone can buy a new cellphone number (and another and another and another) supercheap as a prepaid.

Alan, how cheap is supercheap for pre-paid cell numbers?

Making it harder to be verified/post runs the risk of losing the critical mass for a message board to work. A voting system creates a message board that rises to the standards of the voters, not necessarily of Streeteasy. Look at Yahoo Answers for an example where voting doesn't work.

I think a Watercooler board could absorb a lot of the random posts that build community while leaving the real estate boards more on-topic.

inonada, I don't really know, nor do I know if there's a market for their resale. In the UK a few years ago you could get set up for L10 or so, L5 of minutes included.

Very infrequent or new posters should be cultivated and encouraged. They should feel safe from the instant and predictable wrath if the know it all's and the thread should be allowed some time to evolve. Too often I see new posters get bullied into submission and forced into rambling explanations on why it is they decided to buy, rather than moving the discourse to where there is a benefit to them coming here and staying and evolving into new valuable contributers.

1st Suggestion:

Start a rant-free zone for novices. Like a kiddie pool with no deep end. Let them play in there and get their feet wet without the fear of being shouted down; a place where the top 10 or 20 posters wouldn't be allowed in. Whenever they decide they are ready, they can come on over to the deep water, where the sharks are circling.

Forgot one point: let the OP choose when and if he wants the thread moved into the main forum.

JuiceMan, spinnaker, I really like the ideas. Sounds like SE is taking this seriously, which is encouraging - not sure how much more of this I was willing to put up with, at least on as regular a basis as I have in the past. I'm not opposed to some back and forth, but I think some of the antagonism that might be viewed as ultimately friendly by those involved has really been off-putting, esp for the newbies. One of the reasons I expect to post less, especially in response to the same ol' "market commentary" bs that inevitably turns repetitive. I think it's as much on us to make this place better.

>>Start a rant-free zone for novices

Spin: I don't think this would work. If new posters don't have access to the best parts of intelligence and community from some of the regular posters on SE, the pool of new voices will not grow. The solution needs to based on a way to keep them away from the worst elements of the community that would discourage them from sampling SE.

And, it is not just new posters who can't bear the personal attacks. I am disgusted with SE because of a poster who insists on attacking me. I think the answer lies is a self-policing system (acceptance of rules, tagging unacceptable posts etc). This can be backed up by a warning system- maybe a three times and you are out system. This should not be monitored by posters who can be quick to pull the reactionary trigger but by SE who can fairly judge the posts, history and the nature of the complaints.

"I think it's as much on us to make this place better."

Could not agree more bjw. This happened a while back and the regulars made an effort to improve the behavior and it really worked. I'll make a couple suggestions that come to mind:

1) swe & bjw need to find a way to co-exist, I think they both bring a lot to the table
2) stop bashing LIC as a place to live just for sport
3) keep rent vs. buy debates civil, eliminate personal attacks
4) keep the political discussions focused on the impact on real estate
5) regulars should call out other regulars when things get sidetracked (and we should listen)
6) encourage newbies and most of all, utlize the collective wisdom of all of us (which is substantial and amazing quite frankly) to help answer their questions
7) encourage more content from Urbandigs, West81st, Ali, Sunny Hong, etc so that this once again becomes an invaluable real estate tool that will help all of us.
8) streeteay has to fight the troll issue with all they have got

apt23 - I know you're not saying only the top 10 posters are intelligent. I would contend that the kiddie pool would not only draw out the long time lurkers with plenty to offer but also help grow the community. Remember how civil SE used to be when everyone was a novice?
All the other ideas to deal with the trolls and the attackers are valid as well, and should be applied to the kiddie pool. Damn, gotta work on that name. Chill Zone maybe.

@ChasingWamus I disagree, I think the voting system on Yahoo Answers works extraordinarily well. The responses that have too many negative votes are hidden, making the site easier to read and navigate. If a question or answer is abusive, it gets deleted. And I think Yahoo Answers is one of the most positive, helpful, encouraging, fun, sites on the Internet, in part because of the way the site is set up... it encourages mutual respect.

JuiceMan, I think all your suggestions are good. On #1, I've long tried to be civil, but nothing's come of it, just personal attacks. In the interest of others though, I'll do my best to ignore him. I would add eliminating much of the broker bashing that goes on here. It's often done for sport it seems, and while some broker practices leave much to be desired, and I understand the frustration, I suspect it alienates more people than it helps here. This should be a community for anyone involved in real estate - yes, even those that actually work in it. I don't think it was ever intended as a buyer haven.

Also, I was thinking more about this this morning, and I think absolutely the best idea was from Streeteasy to limit the amount of times a poster can post per day. I think at most it should be 10 times a day. That's already too much in my opinion. But I think limiting how many times someone can post in one day is a terrific idea, and it should definitely get implemented if possible.

And if there is a way to verify only ONE account (whatever the best way would be to do that .. ) and limit the amount of times the one person can post per day... I think alot of the issues might be solved.

avery: I think limiting the number of posts would be well, limiting. If financeguy posts a complicated market strategy and 12 people ask for more elaboration, should he ignore them to save his post quota? He very generously and very patiently explains his position to questioners right now which is helpful. I don't think you should limit that kind of exchange.

Otoh, people who endlessly post drivel would be well served by limits. But how to implement. Perhaps if a poster was tagged as inappropriate 10 times in a day, they could be banned for the rest of the day. However, you would have to have the technical wherewithal to allow only one tag per poster per day. Otherwise, the troll could eliminate anyone/everyone by sitting on tag button.

@apt23 I get what your saying. But, to use your example,I think financeguy does a terrific job of explaining himeself clearly the first time around. I've never seen it happen on here where 12 people have asked him to clarify his position. I've never seen financeguy post more than ten times in one day I don't think... The people on here who I personally find to be most helpful do not post excessively.

Avery APT23.... I agree with 23 on not limiting posts to 10 a day. Often a good discussion requires a constructive back and fourth. On this thread alone you have posted 4 times in this last hour. You very well could be contributing on other threads. I certainly wouldn't want to have to wait 24 hours for your response.

@NYCDreamer I started this thread with the intent to be helpful while everyone on the other threads were just name-calling, bickering, arguing. This is the only thread I've posted to today/yesterday/all month. Show me a good discussion back and forth here on Streeteasy... It's hard to find one.

Avery.. I don't think I expressed myself well. I'm sorry. I think this a great productive thread and I hope it grows to hundreds of posts with many more from Avery. We all want to end the mindless nasty bickering. I just don't want to limit the valuable discussions with posting limits. SE has asked us to give them suggestions and this thread is a great start.

BTW I've been on this board for three years and posted maybe 10 times the first 35 months. I feel the board is in crisis and finally decided I would give my .02cents to try tto make it better.

pls, if ar can be found posting elsewhere, let me know where, so i may go there to read

Please don't limit posts. Some of the best threads (the comps posts and the open house posts) often have a single poster posting many relevant items. Because we're limited in the number of links, it is often helpful to break this up into several posts. I think limiting the number of posts would encourage people to try to create even more usernames.

right and right, wishhouse. And right, Wbottom. And right as always, NYCDreamer.

I would be in favor of limiting the number of comments that a person can make either daily, weekly or monthly. I agree that back and forth discussion is often helpful, but I'd rather get more input from new posters. Sometimes it's tough to get involved in a discussion because it's been taken over by a few regular posters.

I am in total agreement with Dwell (as I often am) that personal attacks shouldn't be permitted on SE. Discussion and disagreement on RE topics is fine, but I don't need to read of personal attacks based on gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation or even personal qualities of a poster that you may dislike.

It is not hard to figure out where lines were crossed on this forum, long, long ago. Once crossed, who cares about freedom of expression? This is a red herring used in connection with the Internet that is not applied to public bathroom stalls, hostile remarks directed at elected officials, abusive/threatening language in private between family members. But -- oooooooo -- the Internet is sacred! One Halloween, drunk teenagers and twenty-somethings whose faces were concealed by masks were being a nuisance in my neighborhood diner. When asked to tone it down by a waitress, one of these kids started calling her a bitch and a hag. The waitress and I exchanged bored, disgusted looks and she said, "Yeah, you're a real big man now that you have a mask on, aren't you? You wouldn't dare speak to me or anyone else like that if you didn't have your Halloween costume on." Sound familiar?

The idea of eliminating comments after they are made by some sort of group vote (yes/no, does this comment add to the conversation) is a possibility. But I would hope that by limiting each poster to a certain number of comments they might choose not to waste them on tiresome personal attacks. It seems sad to punish the many good people here because of a few nasty ones. I realize that some people view these comments as harmless fun, but sometimes IMO they go too far. Spinnaker is right that new posters often "get bullied". I am also tired of reading "fights" between posters here who I doubt have actually ever met in person. When I attended the last SE meetup, I was not surprised to discover how civil everyone was in person. I've always been a big advocate of the Ignore function because although some posters made good points on RE topics, their personal attacks outweigh for me their helpfulness.

Here's a suggestion.

How about the next time a nightmare troll singlehandedly DESTROYS the board, SE actually does something about it, such as banning them or getting the police to do it, rather than let it fester like a sore and contaminate all that is healthy and good.

Especially since they have such Amazing tech people... it should be a breeze.

It's like when the news shows the goriest and most horrific stories simply for the ratings.

I don't like any of these rules. Simple common sense and good judgement could have prevented all of this.

@glamma In my opinion it was the back and forth bickering, name calling, condescension, lack of respect, by more than one of the posters on here... I saw your other thread where you suggest starting a new real estate blog. You should start one! You can start a group on Yahoo groups. If people are unhappy with a situation, try to positively fix it, positively change it, come up with suggestions to make it better, or leave it. Moving forward is the best way to go. And,to be honest, I wouldn't shed many tears if some of the regular posters on here moved to another board.
@lobster & @lowery agree.

This forum requires a moderator or two.

@hsw9001 I completely agree.

"This forum requires a moderator or two"

This forum requires less obsessive posters, but its the internet. you're gonna have trolls, and regulars, and brilliance, and idiocy. so be it. who cares. ok, sorry, many of you do. i understand.

but there are too many cooks in this kitchen, i tell ya!

am i the only person who thinks this is kinda funny (not the personal attacks but the DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA)? i'm sorry. maybe i'm evil.

no, uwsmom, there are too many cooks in this state-of-the-art chef's kitchen

... months and months (or more) of real estate obsession, and you don't even speak in broker drivel phrases?

[Sorry if I sound like I'm just a cozy person for calling you on that.]

in an attempt to stay on topic, i have two thoughts:

1) to anyone who is taking this seriously (i hope there are few to none) - try explaining the last few days (and threads) to someone unfamiliar with streeteasy. it's a good time.

2) to streeteasy - a former boss of mine was very diplomatic, OVERLY diplomatic. we used to sit in meetings for hours discussing ways to improve the work environment/morale/relations. We RARELY came to a consensus and usually everyone left angry with at least one person in the room. He was a brilliant neuropsychiatrist, a good man who really had the best of intentions, but he was a TERRIBLE leader.

@uwsmom I hope it is taken at least semi-seriously so that the psychotic personal attacks, scariness, drama, etc. does not re-appear and/or is at least minimized. I don't visit this forum to make friends, or for the drama, or to witness name-calling, personal attacks, etc. I visit this forum for one purpose only, and that's to learn. I won't keep visiting (and I'm sure there are others like me) if it again devolves.

gcondo: Here's a current example. I think they did a pretty nice job.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/533951-coop-415-central-park-west-manhattan-valley-new-york

a well-put-together ad, i agree. even looks like a nice apt. is it fairly priced? should be interesting to see if thay manage a smooth reasonable sale w/out a broker

Avery, you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I have nothing but respect for most of the regular posters here, value their contributions to the discussions and do not want to see them leave SE.

One of the things that Aboutready said to me at the May SE meetup was that she was glad that I hadn't stopped participating in SE discussions because the site needed all kinds of people to be involved, not just people who were basically similar in temperament. I'd like to think she's right.

@lobster I agree with you. I too have a lot of respect for most of the regular posters.. And I wholeheartedly support that sentiment of all kinds of people need to be involved.. Anyway, what do I know? I'm basically a reader of the Board.. I rarely post anyway. This board is an INCREDIBLE source of information (who can disagree with that?)... and I want to keep visiting.. and I want the regular posters to keep posting.. but I don't want to have to sift through the bickering and name calling... Streeteasy asked for feedback, I tried to give my feedback, although I think maybe I should have emailed Streeteasy directly, and not done it publicly. That's basically it.

@lobster Yikes I just reread my postings, and in no way did I mean to imply that you and lowery agree with me!!! Doh!!! I wrote:
@lobster & @lowery agree.
I didn't mean it to imply that you agreed with ME, I meant that I agreed with YOU!! Argh! Communication fail on my part. Sorry about that.

Avery, you've done alot to help generate a good dialogue about Streeteasy and we all appreciate your effort. Glamma is really right - this is a problem for Streeteasy to solve and we should all let them do their job.