500 Fourth Avenue Closing Date

I went there yesterday to reserve a unit. They just gave me a vague closing date of Fall 09. They were saying it's a conservative estimate because they think they could possibility be done with construction before that, it's just paperwork that would hold everything up. I believe they are working on TCO so when they get that I guess we would have a better idea. So I'm guessing anywhere between Sept. and Nov.

Any updates on the closing date? Have they started closing?

I believe that they are trying to coordinate the closings with the date of the auction.

lol

Unless they all of a sudden sold 80+ units, looks like they pulled those listings but kept a few listed for shits and giggles. I don't get it. Maybe to make it look like they sold those units?

I guess until we get more color from people who are still interested and come here to report, all we know for sure is that 33/156 are in contract.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much the parking spaces were going for here? If it ends up like 80 Metropolitan, parking spaces might be thrown in for closings to prop up the price later on...

I believe that they were 50G's. Is the building complete now?

What I was told, Parking is under another Management Company. I think it was @ $260.00 a month.
The building is still not complete.

Does anyone have any updates on 500?

I just passed by 500 yesterday and the building is still not complete, guess closings will start sometime in June.

It appears from the stats on this site, that they have 33 units in contract.They need 39 in contract to obtain financing from Fairmont Funding which is the preferred lender for the project. Other lenders will lend at lower percentages sold so it really is just an issue of construction now. They need to obtain the TCO. I know some of the apartments are already finished.

I'm assuming closings will not realistically occur till April, 2010.

Has anyone had dealings with Fairmont yet? I tried to contact them several times to get information on the mortgage process etc.. but after a few weeks of repeated emails, all I received was a "we will get in touch with you soon" response, followed by nothing. And this is supposed to be the developer's 'preferred' lender.

The fact that they took 80 units "off the market" and listed as "unavailable" does not seem like a good faith effort on their part to get this building sold. Any legitimate reason they would have for this? Posting units like that is not going to generate more interest by giving the illusion that suddenly tons of unit sold. Do not know too many people that would be fooled by that.

I think they were removed from their sales website for the holidays, and re posted after the holidays.

I think the 80 units taken off the market was a mistake. Streeteasy downloads from the City; they don't contact the developers directly. Or so I'm told. When they updated from 31 to 33 units in contract, they evidently reversed the number of units still on the market (80) and those taken off the market (5). They corrected it in about a week.

It wasn't a mistake by streeteasy. The listings were pulled by prudential, taken down for the holidays and then re-listed after the new year. I thought it was really strange, spoke to the broker and his explanation was that a lot of the brokers were going to be on vacation. Still no estimated completion date, he said estimate was end of winter.

place is going under i bet

The building has 39 units sold pre-construction. The buildings approved lendor will now fund as well as other lendor's.

Once units are finished, sales will obviously go up. The economy is improving, and tax credit has been extended. Further, Brooklyn sales are up overall city wide.

The problem is not going to be with sales but with obtaining the TCO. That can take some time.

Over 1 month later and still no contact from Fairmont after signing the purchase agreement and submitting the mortgage application. Anyone out there had better luck with them than I have?

Communication with them is a joke. Did they tell you if you were approved?

A joke indeed, unfortunately not a funny one. Approved? I have not even had them tell me anything other than an email saying they would get back to me. Going on since mid-December.

That is absurd - I would email the sponsor, sponsors attorney and your/their broker and let them know how frustrated you are with the situation.

I have also experienced the same issue with Fairmont.

New and interesting update from the world of Fairmont. The main contact, "Mordy" has up and left to another company, which may explain why no one can contact them. More interesting is that suddenly, Fairmont is no longer the "preferred" lender the developer was cramming down everyone's throats. The sponsor is recommending the new company that Mr. Mordy went to, Chicago Bancorp. Anyone else find this a little.... odd? Just seems more and more that the buyers are on an island alone surrounded by the broker/lender/sponsor group. I am no real estate professional by any account, but there is supposed to be some separation between the lender and seller or there is no 'arms length' fair dealing.

Smells like rotten fish to me...or is that the nearby Gowanus Canal?

what about the superfund designation, that might hurt.

Sorry for the cross-post --
My husband and I looked at 500 Fourth Avenue at the open house yesterday. The building is still unfinished, although we were told that move-in would be this spring. I know that the original move-in for tenants had been for the fall '09 -- so what happened to all those who bought apartments in this building when the opening was pushed back? And to those who had already bought apartments, how was it to deal with the changes? We're just at the beginning stages of looking to purchase an apartment, and we'd appreciate any feedback. We loved the finishes of 500 Fourth Avenue, the kitchen and baths, layouts, as well as amenities -- the building itself feels like exactly what we'd want. However we have concerns about location and also that it still looks unfinished despite its imminent opening.

So, has anyone else heard about closings beginning in mid-april?

@nyc2brklyn-- I looked at the building last spring, went into contract in the summer and was supposed to move in around Thanksgiving/Christmas but that didn't happen. THey are saying end of April closings and I think they may be on track for that but I can't say for sure. I also really like the finishes, the building, the location is great ( I live 5 blocks away now) so I am hanging in there but it has been super frustrating to wait for sure. Also, early buyers got 10% off, which may the apts a pretty good deal. I think that if you can get a good price on it and it feels like the right place for you, you should make an offer. I mean they only sold 25% of the building so they should be room to neg.

@ saintanger- I am using Mordy now at his new bank, all is the same as it was with Fairmont, there is nothing fishy going on that i can tell.

how much of a premium do you think you're paying to go with chicago bankcorp vs shopping a mortgage on the open market?

The agent and lender both have talked about closings within 45 days or so (late april) but I just went to the building to check on progress, and aside from some improvement in the lobby/ground floor as far as taking shape, the upper floors are still in mid-construction. No idea where they get their estimates from. At this point, I cannot see how they would make closing in time for anyone looking for the tax credit. unfortunately, all it seems we can do is what we have been doing... waiting.

@ Samlam - got back in touch w/ Mordy after much waiting and things seem to be progressing. The only strange thing I was thinking was the developer switched their preferred lender status to wherever Mordy happens to be, which gives the impression he is getting something extra out of it.

@499 - considering that no other bank will lend with a building only 25% sold (and generally nothing under 50% from what I have been told by some major banks), there is little choice if any.

@SaintAnger I understand that there is no other choice than the preferred lender at this point. What I'm wondering is to what degree do they leverage their monopoly status? Are their interest rates/fees comprable to the mainline lenders out there?

taking into consideration that the Gowanus is now a Superfund Site, i highly doubt that this building will be getting any other financing even after it reaches the 50% or 70% mark. It is within spitting distance of the canal and Fannie will not buy those mortgages most likely.

The upper floors in "mid-construction". I visited last September and that was the status at the time (we went up in hard hats. What is up??

Hi, over 2 weeks ago, they where up to the 9th floor & last week I was informed they're up to the 10th floor (which means aside from all walls up , appliances are going in).
I think there's a good possibility closing's may begin when they predicted they would - Mid April .

@Brklyn33 - Of course there still is the small matter of the C of O...

@ab_11218 - Toll Bros pulled out because there were essentially on the superfund site. Does Fannie have any regs concerning proximity? I took a quick look and couldn't find any. Besides, I think 4th ave is probably the true toxic worry.

there is a blanket statement of within 3000 ft of SuperFund Site, railroad, etc. since we're in the city, 3000 ft is excessive for other things, but SuperFund Site within 2000 ft?????

Ab, the 3000 ft limit affects prime park slope, carroll gardens, and cobble hill. So, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=217260&vid=5&download=1 has a map showing the 3000ft limit. (Also note that this building is about the same distance as 3rd St and Sixth Ave in Park Slope.)

hell of an image, that. got a link to whatever article that was attached to?

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100225005852&newsLang=en

The broker told me that the delay in closing is almost exclusively due to waiting for the TCO from the city. He said that there are several inspections for new construction and that 500 Fourth has passed all but the final inspection. The city does not give advanced notice of the next inspection but inferring from the timing of the previous inspections, the developers estimated they would be able to close mid April to early May. The construction certainly has come a long way since last fall. The exterior of the building has been finished and they are working on the interiors of the higher floors. There are floors, cabinets, counters and even some appliances as high as the 9th floor now. I don't think construction will hold us up much unless you are on the 11th or 12th floor. The TCO, however, is more of an unknown.

BTW, a TCO can be issues for ranges of floors. They can get a TCO for floors 3-6 w/o needing to finish the upper floors. The common areas (lobby, hallways, elevators) need to be completed -- i.e. safe (gym equipment, pool tables, etc don't need to be installed).

The pavers for the common roof deck were delivered as of yesterday, and, assuming nice weather, will be installed soon. I think June closings are possible, but April/May may be wishful thinking.

With only 39 units in contract for the longest of time now I would be very leery of buying into this building. Still most lenders will not approve mortgages without having 50 to 70 percent of the units sold, especially when it comes to new construction. Also, the building was designed by Robert Scarano who is know as the bad boy of architecture. A lot of his project fail to receive Cert. of Occupancy. Google is name and read up. I would be very worried as a buyer that the building will not be able to sell enough units to keep the building a float and eventually either need to go rental or bankrupt. Good luck to those who have contracts and are still waiting to move in.

Our offering plan states that Pasquale Castellano is the architect for 500 Fourth. There is no mention of Scarano, even though multiple Brownstoner and Curbed NY.com articles describe 500 Fourth as a Scarano building. Castellano submitted amended plans to the city as of Nov. 21, 2008 which were accepted on Jan. 16, 2009. I'm not sure what this means, but it looks like Scarano has been off the project for about 1.5 years. As for financing, it's available from both Fairmont Funding and Chicago Bancorp and as more units sell other banks will offer financing, too. It is expected that new construction will not attract financing from private lenders. That is why the sponsor always has to arrange financing themselves until the building is 50% sold. While sales have indeed languished the past few months, 500 Fourth is doing better than most other new developments. They're also up to 41 now.

Thoughts on superfund impact to saleability here?

@winter Here's mention of Scarano--

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/WorkPermitDataServlet?allisn=0002018522&allisn2=0001045342&allbin=3337708&requestid=2

what's the latest on C of O/ closings?

That's disturbing about Scarano. We went to an open house this past weekend and were told the TCO, covering the first to 8th floor, might be come in in 2 weeks. According to their calculations, people could be closing in at most 6 weeks. We should know by now not to take these estimates too seriously but it is encouraging nonetheless.

Closing dates are being set for the first 7 floors.

how soon are they starting?

Mine is the beginning of June. The statement from the real estate office said around 30 days.

Hi. I have been reading some comments about the difficulty of closing and getting a mortgage due to the fact that less than 50% of the building's apartments are sold? what are peoples experience's, is this true ?

There is no difficulty getting an FHA mortgage and closing, but it requires an up front mortgage insurance payment of 2.25% of the loan (this just increased in April from 1.75%) regardless of down payment amount; and a monthly MI payment until 78% LTV is reached. The rates on the FHA loans appear to actually be about 1/8 point less then the conventional/conforming 30yr "High-Cost" mortgage, but that would differ from lender to lender. So, you are basically tacking an additional ~2% onto the price of the unit. As I said in the other forum, I'm going to move forward with an FHA loan as I would prefer to move in now, and it's worth it to me to pay the up front cost, especially since it's impossible to know what interest rates will look like when the building gets to 50% sales.

I just came back from my mortgage broker ( Frank Tamayo) who I highly recommend. I used him on my current apartment and he was great. So he confirmed that Wells fargo Is offering a very good rate for mortgages in the building even though the sales are still under 50%. The negative is that the closing costs are 8K- 10K which seems quite high! I was told that condo closing costs are always high but I don't know the specifics on mortgage closing costs for new construction condos. There is something called splitter loans which Frank mentioned. He suggested I talk to my lawyer about splitter loans because it would reduce the closing costs of the mortage.
And yes the interests rates are really good now so I am hoping it all falls into place soon!

BTW- edicara....good luck and congrats! I love the building and am hoping I will be able to move forward and live there soon!

What happened to Mordy Husarsky who was affiliated with first Fairmont Funding and then Chicago Bankcorp? Is he only offering FHA loans too? I don't think 8-10 K are that high for closing costs, unfortunately.

HI...winter, yeah you are right 8- 10 is not at all. In fact, I was wrong about that figure YICKS- the banks really sock it to you! The quotes Im getting for closing costs are between between 17- 19K. I think Fairmont Funding stopped giving mortgages to the building- I need to check on that though. The banks offering mortgages seem to shift. I guess more will come on board as sales increase. it looks Like 50 % is the magic number for new construction and 500 4th is not near that yet- last I checked 46 were in contract. I'm checking out M and I bank and Wells Fargo now. I am looking into conventional mortgages so I'm not sure what the scenario is for the FHA loans. I'm going to meet with mortgage broker( Frank Tamayo) tomorrow so I will have more info after that.
It seems that you are a number of steps ahead in the process, which is encouraging!!!

Hi Ciaokt, If you (or anyone reading this)happens to find anyone who would give a conventional loan on this building with less than 50% sold, can you please pass on the contact info to me? I have asked around and so far evey one is just offering me the FHA. I honestly do not want an FHA. I am putting down over 20% and do not want to pay the monthly Mortgage insurance on top of the Initial Mortgage insurance you have to pay up front. ick...
I would greatly appriciate any Ideas or contact info. I would hate to have to wait till 50% sold and who knows by then what the rate will be. I have Been in contract for over a year now.

Thanks

We are closing June 11th and are still working with Mordy- he's not at Fairmont anymore- he's through Chicago Bancorp. Out of curiosity, for those who ar edoing an FHA loan, what type of interest rates have you been given at the other banks?

Gigi1, I am 100% in the same boat as you. I am sick and tired of waiting, but I refuse to spend all that extra money when I am putting down 20%. I was told that Fairmont is still a preferred lender, that Mordy Husarsky is now at Chicago Bancorp and they are also a preferred lender, and 3rd company, affiliated with Wells Fargo but whose name I forget, is also. All three will only do FHA loans at this time.And closing costs will be about 20K regardless. 8-10K is, unfortunately, wishful thinking.

So glad this board exists...I know I am not alone here!

gigi1- I got an e-mail from our sales agent the other day with this info about conventional loans:

For those of you that have inquired about who is handling the conventional loans for the building, M & T Bank is already doing some conventional loans in the building. For your convenience, I've copied contact information below:

2. M & T Bank

Leona Cowan-Mundy

Senior Mortgage Consultant

cell 914-582-2431

lcowan-mundy@mtb.com

Don't FHA loans typically get a slightly favorable rate, which over the life of the loan, more than makes up the difference for the MI?

FHA loans always have slightly higher % when compared to conventional and they carry a required mortgage insurance on top of that.

One problem with FHA also, I believe, is that there is a large amount rolled into the loan in addition to a monthly premium, so you are paying interest on a higher loan amount in addition to a monthly premium.

AHW, thanks for the contact info!

ab_11218, are you sure about the higher %? Because I've looked at many FHA loan vs. conventional loan comparisons and FHA loans always have 1/8 - 1/4 point lower interest rate.

I got quoted a 5.2% interest rate for my FHA loan- does that seem high? I'm certainly not an expert in this area and I'm sure the amount of the loan and our info has something to do with it, but a quick google search and it looks like there are FHA loans still in the upper 4% range.... I just want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything!

here are 2 links that explain FHA loans and both say the same thing. FHA loan rates are a little higher then conventional.

http://www.mortgageqna.com/federal-government-loans/compare-fha-vs-conventional-mortgage.html
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/real-estate/reguide/fha-loans1.asp

Ahw001 THANK YOU! I will for sure give her a call. rick189 - Yes I too was given the same information from Mordy's group as well as Wells Fargo.(Randy was his name) They where both very helpful.

is this the biggest pain in the butt or what :-)

Rick....yup it is hahaha!
Thanks everyone, I'm finding the info here very useful !
GIGI-I have a estimate for a loan from M and T ( thru Leona Cohen as well ) but still hoping and shopping around to see if I can do better on those dreaded closing costs. I'm also working with Frank Tamayo, who I think is a really top notch, ( his number 718 623- 1400) mortgage broker. I will keep you posted.

What's the fee on the mortgage broker?

Hi folks, I signed a contact recently and am getting a FHA 5 yr ARM loan. We are planning to have a baby soon so will only be in this one bedroom for a few years. We haven't locked in our rate yet and wells fargo called me today to tell me it is 3.5% !

so you're buying a new development, paying crazy closing costs, and planning to stay for less than 5 yrs. are you expecting to lose approx 5-10% of your investment due to in/out costs of buying/selling?

this just doesn't make any sense.

Some people you just can't help.

Hi all. Having the same issues here. After starting with Fairmont funding, transitioning to Chicago bankcorp and waiting several months for them to straighten out our mortgage application, we were notified that Chicago was now only doing FHAs. I spoke with the DE Capital (Wells) rep today who said they are also doing FHA only until 45% - 50% sold and then suggested the 5/1 ARM FHA at 3.25% (with 1 point). We put 20% down to avoid throwing money away on MI in the first place. I have to agree with Rick189 here especially since the closing costs on a new condo development are extremely high to begin with. (also agree that this has become a huge PITA!)
I also spoke with the M&T rep who was very helpful but was told that at the moment, they were only doing conventionals on 25% down but may start doing 20% at the end of this week. Their rate was good at 5.25% but I am a bit worried if they do not come down to 20% down to qualify for a conventional mortgage. Has anyone been approved for a conventional putting less than 25% down yet?

Hi SaintAnger and all. I have not yet been approved for the 20 % down- anywhere. I too am waiting for M & T to come down to 20%. guess we are all in the same boat (putting down 20 % and not dealing with an FHA) the Rep at M & T was very helpful. I am awaiting her phone call.
For those of you who are closing soon, Congratulations!

The M&T rep has been very encouraging. The building is now 40% sold (I think) and I really think it's going to happen - that they will come down. Then again, I might be delirious at this point.

This board is quite the source of comfort in this mess!
I too am anxiously awaiting the word from M&T. She said most likely the decision would be made by Friday. Strangely enough I received my closing letter today scheduled for early June! I am going to go over to the sales office and speak with the agents this weekend and try to get some actual answers from them for a change.

It sure is.... And I have found it so helpful in trying to sorting out this whole mortgage mess-especially being the new kid on the block!
I am waiting to hear from Lee from M and T as well. GOOD LUCK to everyone. Hopefully, we will all meet, in the not to far off future in the building!

I might drop by the building this weekend also. SaintAnger, please let us know what you hear!

I hate to say it but I am glad I am not alone. I to am anxious to finally move in. Sharing this info has been very helpful. I am not as freaked out anymore. Don't know if you have been by the building recently but the lobby looks AMAZING!

HI future neighbors. I just got off the phone after completing my mortgage app. with Lee Cohen from M and T bank. She was great, super helpful ! So thanks to everyone here for providing such insight and useful info about this whole ordeal! It now seems real and exciting!

We just completed our FHA loan application with Mordy last night, so hopefully we'll be finished with this mortgage mess soon and can actually get excited about moving in! This has been a longggg, sometimes frustrating, process as we were one of the "early birds" last spring! I can't wait to meet my new neighbors! We'll be at the building tomorrow afternoon to take some measurements in our unit so mabye we'll see some of you there!

Hi ciaokt -- did you have to put down 25% for a conventional loan from M&T Bank? We've bought in the building, too, and are looking to get a conventional loan at 20% down if possible. Any feedback would be much appreciated!

I got a conventional mortgage in the building via Metlife; I'm putting 20% down.

My mortgage broker is:

Joel Schreiber
Senior Loan Officer
The Everest Equity Company, Inc.
Toll Free: 800-923-0031 Ext. 148
Direct Tel: 845-675-4024
www.everestequity.com
mortgagesbroker@gmail.com

I was working with Mordy but he moved to the new company and said he couldn't do a conventional mortgage anymore, and Fairmont said the same so I thought I was screwed. But Joel had Metlife issue waivers for the building so I could get a conventional instead of FHA. I'm paying 4.99 with one point on a 30 yr/fixed. Joel's been great, I recommend him.

HI. nyc2bklyn- yes I did. You should call Leona ( Lee) @ M and T and see what she have to say. Someone mentioned earlier on that Lee said that very soon M and T might allow loans with 20% down so it's def. worth calling and checking. Her number is 914 582 2431.
GOOD LUCK.

Have we confirmed when the first closing is? I know of one unit set to close 6/10. Anyone earlier?

I have heard someone has as early as 6/3, anyone earlier?

What about the TCO for the remaining floors? Anyone have an idea when it supposed to be granted? Thanks.

when I was there on Sat Karen said that there are a few people moving in the last week in May! Apaprantly there were several people who didn't need any financing!!! crazy

Looks like they'll have to make some significant progress this week then. The building doesn't look like it's 2 weeks away from closings...

Does anyone have good recommendations for H06 condominimum insurance policies? I have been informed that we need this.

I will be moved in by May 31, provided the mortgage comes together but it looks like that won't be a problem.

Jake_F, do we need that H06 policy prior to closing? First I'm hearing of it.

Yes, I believe we do.

WOW... moving in that's great! I was told the end of July. I'm on the 9th floor so I'm definitely later, but who knows how much later ?
I was at the open house Sunday and the lobby looks good, plus the colored glass on the gym entrance is really pretty.

Anyone doing an FHA loan will need H06 insuring 20% of the purchase price, with a fair chunk of it allocated to "walls-in" coverage (I did 50% personal property, 50% building property). I did mine (for another Brooklyn condo, not 500 Fourth) with Allstate, which was pretty reasonably priced.

My agent:
Michael Feldman
169 Seventh Ave.
( near 1st St. )
Brooklyn, NY 11215
718 499-7000

I was by on Sunday also and was pleased with how it all looks, and also with the apparent interest of more prospective buyers. The gym will be the last thing done and probably not until after people are living there, since it's been used as a staging area for construction, but they've ordered all the equipment that will be in there.

For insurance, I went with Adam Wolfson at Global Coverage - awolfson@globalcoverage.net. 212-683-2622.

Thanks for the agent name, Kiz. I called them and got a policy through AllState that was 200 dollars cheaper than Geico for seemingly the same thing. I should have everything I need now to close.

ciaokt, are you sure about that moving in by the end of July (and your on the 9th floor)? I heard the C / O for 9 and 10 should be coming in any day now & hopefully for 11 and 12, the beginning of June.

HI gigi, Wow that would be great ! I guess it's really hard to be sure about closing dates until they are happening. I was told by karen at last Sunday's open house that the 9 th floor might be around mid July or so, and that things were moving fast ( so I added on a couple of weeks to that thinking better safe than disappointed) but who knows? I'm hoping you are right! Are you on 11 or 12? btw- Did you see the glass panels on the gym doors?-I love the colors they used.

Gee if Karen is right (which she probably is) thats not good news for me. I'm on the 12th floor. That would mean we would probably be getting in @ September & who knows what the rates will be by then.
I have not checked out the gym glass panels yet. I was there over a month ago and the room was bare. I may go by in the next few weeks to see the progress. Overall I totally dig the color plans they went with.