220 RSD, Bank Sale

sorry, typo, RSB, not RSD.

Here's the $630K sale: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/906090

can someone paste . i can't read it..

NWT, thanks. Not running on all gears this morning. Upstate our internet is painfully slow.

Riversider, there's no associated listing. this is the recent sale.

Seller Jp Morgan Chase Bank, National Association
1111 Fannin Street, 12th Floor
Houston TX 77002

Buyer Wong, Philip
156 Hicks Street Apt #1
Brooklyn NY 11201

Property Type Condo
Size 979 ft²
Price per ft² $643

and chase appears to have bought it for $823,000.

Looks like someone paid 1.049 for it before the bank bought it for 823.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/94646-condo-220-riverside-blvd-lincoln-square-new-york

11/10/2005
Previous Sale recorded for $1,049,000.
07/13/2007
Listed in StreetEasy by Nestseekers at $999,000.
07/19/2007
Listing is no longer available.
10/29/2008
Sale recorded for $823,179.
07/24/2009
Sale recorded for $630,000.

1 bedroom, 1.5 bath with vu of Hiway.... $630K sounds about right.

actually sounds a bit high. but a comp is a comp.

what exactly does this mean ?

how does one get on these bank sales? I am interested in another condo on 220 RSB

The reason the seller couldn't bail on this purchase and just sell, is because there are 36 apartments for sale in this building alone. And, they would have also been competing with the other Trump buildings. How can the people looking at The Rushmore not see the writing on the wall.

40 Active listings at Trump Place 120 Riverside
24 active listings at Trump Place 200 Riverside
21 active lisings at The Heritage at Trump 240 Riverside

How does a seller compete? If there is anyone in these buildings that HAS to sell, we will be seeing more bank sales, I think.

I think this particular unit was involved in some sort of mortgage fraud that was uncovered before the market tanked. Not saying $630K isn't appropriate, but it was something the banks were probably looking to get off their books fast. I bet west81st can recall the details. I.e., the Chase at $823K was probably the bank foreclosing.

You guys BETTER get used to it A Wave of Foreclosures is coming...It takes 400 days in NY to get through the process where JQ Public can buy The Financial Crisis Debacles are not here YET

Chase is smarter than you think You think they dont know whats ahead !!??

$643psf... was it alpie who laughed when I said $500psf prime nyc as an appetizer?

Does that mean the 85 listings in that nabe need to redo their calculations at $643psf? No, I think they need to do it at $550psf, bc anyone now will be demanding a discount off the "fire" sale. They will try to poke a million holes on why $630K is not right... but here is the rub... Mr. Wong is someone that was given a first chance and feels "privilaged" to get the first foreclosure in NYC (prime) and their are plenty on the sidelines like him who are licking their chops... but when there aren't buyers that get excited from a friend at a bank that calls and says "hey, have i got a deal for you!" , will we be at least headed towards bottom.

Trust me, I've seen this played out before... Mr. Wong... "knows" someone and got first dibs and is happy as a kitten... but will see the rest of the 85 units price way below him on a year or so.... he might've even picked up a 2bdrm for $630K in a year....

nice find aboutready...

how did Mr. Wong manage to snag such a desireable foreclosure? When I looked into foreclosures, the only thing I was able to find was garbage. Does Wong work at Chase or know someone high up there? Because I am 99% sure that Wong is not your "average Joe."

and if your right about Wong "knowing" someone w67, then that is a shame. Had Chase put the unit on the open market for EVERYONE to make an offer, I am sure they could hae gotten more money. Don't tell me there is nobody out there who would not pay $650,000...

I love it! I love it! I LOVE it! Thanks for posting this aboutready it made an already GORGEOUS day even better :)

Aboutready I see you pay very close attention to the market in Manhattan. How much long do you think it will take before it bottoms out completely?

West 67 -- It is 85 units combined at 120,200 and 240 RSB.. You didn't add in the 36 at the OP's 200 RSB. So total of 121 units in those 4 buildings alone. Add in all the rentals at the other Trump buildings on the Blvd and not to mention the coming nightmare of The Rushmore.

Prez, why would anyone pay 650 when you gotta believe someone or some many of the 121 will HAVE to sell eventually (soon?) and the prices will be driven down. If you had a spare 650 to invest wouldn't you want to wait on the sidelines to see what happens? The banks had this experience in Vegas and Miami. They held onto inventory because they didn't want to sell at impossibly low prices. But the prices just continued to go lower -- lower than any prognostication. No the banks have learned the lesson, sell when you can. It is the sellers out there in our fair city who haven't learned that lesson.

El_P, maybe MR. Wong is known to close deals... I've had banks take my lower offer given my reputation of closing w/o financing at a moment's notice. Nothing makes a banker look stupider than having to go back to the credit committee to say, even at firesale prices, the unit is back on the book before the quarter closing timeline.

As apt23 has so correctly pointed out "What the Fuck is market when there are 121 big matza balls hanging out there for months, if not years?"

In banking there is bottom up valuation and top down valuation... in this market it's only bottom up... if I was about to close on a unit for $1000psf cause everyone else was selling for $1300psf.. .and then I saw $643psf... it would give me pause.... you think the potential buyer pool for the 121 units aren't saying the $643psf is "market"? and the $1200psf is crap at this very moment.... get a clue... anyone wanting to clear at that spot gotta go below $643psf and quick before the nuclear winter sets in this fall... GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!!!!!!!! it's way too cold that way anyway.... FLMAO... anyone who bought in the last 6 months are going to get a FINANCIAL DIVORCE!!!!! LMAO.... Luchias.. made my weekend! tooooooooooooo

121 Units. That's like a whole new high rise coming on the market. And talk about shadow inventory. Imagine living in one of those buildings and thinking you would really like to sell -- shaky job, baby coming, etc-- and then find out you would be the 41st apt. in the building on the market. Why bother?

Whats the deal with this building? I always thought this was the nicest one of the Trump buildings. Is something going on that everybody wants out?

I'm guessing people borrowed more money than they could really afford to buy there and now it's finally catching up to them. I love watching all of this play out. w67thstreet was right when he said, "Grab some popcorn & pull up a chair." b/c this is going to be a big one :)

Question is, At what price does it become uneconomic to build new units. Several new condos are going up in the area, Laureate, Aldyn, etc. A good time to buy is usually when you are purchasing below replacement cost. What price per square foot rules out new construction?

Riversider Extell keeps building so I guess that mean stay away. Replacement cost is going down now also.

AR: What is up with the sale at 10 R in this 220 building? Friend/family/foreclosure? Also 4U went for $670,000. Another anomaly?

10 R:
05/08/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,099,000.
07/24/2008
Price decreased by 5% to $1,049,000.
09/19/2008
Price decreased by 5% to $999,000.
09/23/2008
Listing entered contract.
10/17/2008
Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
10/17/2008
Price decreased by 0% to $995,000.
10/24/2008
Listing entered contract.
11/05/2008
Listing sold.
11/05/2008
Sale recorded for $265,000.

I've seen a sale recorded in ACRIS at a very low price--it was a sale to a related party subject to an outstanding mortgage. In other words it was the "equity" being transferred, not the apartment.

You guys have NO IDEA the amount of corruption in the REO sales end of things.

Her's my best example:

There was a unit in a commercial building on East 17th Street which had been on the market for some time and couldn't sell. It was and oddball listing since it was granfathered in as residential as some sort of "caretaker" unit in a commercial building. It came up at a foreclosure sale, and a commercial broker who also managed the building had expressed some interest in the space. The bank wouldn't disclose their upset price, and there was about 30,000 in mtc arrears on the unit. I was the only bidder, and stopped at $90,000 (the winning bidder is always responsible to pay the arrears). I told the attorney for the bank to please make sure the bank got my $90,000 offer, and followed it up the same day in writing. The bank used 3 brokers in Manhattan for their REO, but the one who got the bulk of the listings is a notorious slimeball. I told one of the other brokers about the foreclosure having happened and he showed up when the bank took possession of the unit, much to the surprise of the slimeball broker. They both submitted Broker's Opinion of Value reports to the Bank's REO department. the slimeball broker had received an offer for some very small amount from the commercial/managing agent. The guy I knew submitted a number somewhere around $100,000.

What did the bank do? They gave the listing to the slimeball broker, then the wrote off the property and handed it to the Coop for the mainentance arrears rather than take my offer of $90,000 plus the arrears.

I've got tons of other stories like this. But one continuing theme: the way it works is the bank assigns a broker who tries to be the one who sets the value. Usually, they try to set it as low as possible so it is easiest to sell. If it's very low, it never makes it to the market, but gets sold to a crony*. If it gets priced low but not very low, the broker stiff arms other brokers (won't be as easy to do anymore given the change in co-brokering rules/attitudes).

* example: there were 3 units foreclosed at 240 East Houston on the same owner. 2 went to a broker who does the bulk of work for that bank (but isn't even a Manhattan broker) and one went to me. The bank priced them low at I think $125,000 each and they got sold to a customer of the other broker. now, I got a half a commission for virtually no work because i never even got to see the inside of the unit before the sale, but I know that the units all should have gone for significantly more than $125,000 each.

apt23, i assume PMG answered your question. but there are a huge number of units in these properties both for sale and rent, all fairly like (relatively, i realize different sizes and views), and that is the type of property where i'd expect stress to show up early. there are a number of others, and not all of them downtown or uptown.

luchias, i couldn't possibly answer your question. i've been early to the party for a long time, i felt in 2004 that a bubble was forming and got the hell out (at quite the profit, i might add, but not what i could have gotten in 2006. 2007, the peak, wouldn't have done well as the view was about to be destroyed by some development on west 22nd.)

but i firmly believe that there was almost no rational cause for the price appreciation. yes foreigners and financial types had cash to blow. but i believe that there were and are significant other stressors in the market that will become increasingly evident over time, and the superficial money seems to have largely disapppeared as well, despite tales of foreigners in buses trolling hell's kitchen looking for large groups of units to buy.

as i always say, you will know a bottom by the boredom. things will be fairly uniformly priced. if that doesn't happen, there's probably some stimulus keeping prices inflated. incomes tell the tale, and they are down. also, to all of you looking for a good deal, do recall that a lower median price, or average price, or whatever, is kind of meaningless to the person who is extremely diligent, patient and has some flexibility. you may think you can only move in a certain month range, but think again. if you have to pay for two places for awhile, if you can afford it, you may hit pay dirt. you may not. but the key here is to be very active in your searching, and be flexible. even at the bottom, percentage wise, some people get much better deals.

by uniformly priced, i meant they'll make some sense. properties in a certain neighborhood at a certain condition with a certain size and a certain maintenance won't surprise you generally with the price. it won't be perfect, never is, but will seem more logical.

10/29/2008
Sale recorded for $823,179.

This is the referee's deed back to the bank. It could either be the bid the bank took it for at the auction or the judgment amount.

i'd make a guess that it was the judgment amount. the original sale was $1.04m or some such, and $823,179 seems like an odd auction amount, but a conceivable judgmnt amount. although i certainly don't know for a fact.

i would also, and in fact, there is somewhat of a common misconception among foreclosure attorneys that the bank can save on transfer taxes by taking a unit back for some nominal amount. in reality, no matter what the purchase price is, you are supposed to pay transfer taxes on the lien amount.

Thanks for responding to my question aboutready. You may not have been able to give me a definite answer as to when the market will finally bottom but you certainly, as usual, made good points for me to pay attention to. Thank You your posts make it worth my time to hangout here :)

Luchias, what a lovely comment, thank you. If you ever need any comps analyses done, just shout out.

"Prez, why would anyone pay 650 when you gotta believe someone or some many of the 121 will HAVE to sell eventually (soon?) and the prices will be driven down."

Because when a property is bank owned, people assume it is a good deal and they will be more likely to pay more than a regular listing. You can deny this, but I have seen it happen countless times.

yes alpie, just like you said there NEVER would be bank sales in NYC.

the bank sold in about two months. they easily could have taken more time, they chose not to. so should it have been for more, because they could have done better?

ALPIE, FAIL.

they sold in a short time because Wong was likely a crony. Does anyne have any evidence that this unit was ever put on the market, or dd it get sold to Wong in a back room?

and I have said that there would never be co-op bank sales. Exlcuding a few land lease buildings, I have yet to see a single bank owned co-op.

silly alpie, what does it matter? it's a comp. and that's what matters.

and you're just taking a throwaway comment from my best guy w67th, but you know nothing other than the fact that the property sold for over $1m in 2005 and was sold to the bank for about $820k and then sold for $630k. all of those chains in the transaction were bad. and they will continue to happen, at an accelerating pace.

The $820k transaction means nothing. It's not a real sale. It's likely the mortgage balance. ANd as far as the $630k sale, I doubt the sale was legitimte. THe buyer is likely a crony.

and I should also point out that most of these foreclosure and distress sales have been limited to the RBS buildings. Weve been talking about them for a while on SE. So what is happening at RSB is not representatve of the overall market.

you are so ignorant. the $820k was indeed likely the mortgage balance, that the bank paid off to get clear title.

and then they sold the property. "i doubt the sale was legitimate." fuck you, alpie. you have been forever saying that a foreclosure couldn't happen in manhattan, and you can't deal with this, although i don't know why since you rent in hell's kitchen and own in nj.

no, fuck you. As I have said before, foreclosures are not wdespread. Get that drilled into your bubble brain. If your hoping for foreclosures to brng down prices all over Manhattan, your out of luck. Find me a class 6, 7, or 8 foreclosure. There are none! Trump is just a small pocket of dstress.

oh alpie, i so pity you. my bubble brain? please, honey child, i have so proven my credentials over yours.

you did indeed prove yur credentials. I think they included selling 3 yeats too early? Such a pitty.

as noted---he who is full of dog shit should remain silent.

oh dog food, you must be joking? if i sold three places at large profits, and i sold one a bit early (and it was really just a bit because the one good thing about the apt. was obliterated by the development behind it)

does that mean you did better than me with your NJ purchases? or that you think you could have done better than me generally, while you were off investing in NJ?

fuck off, idiot.

the f bombs are flying tonite... El_Presidente, all I am saying is the banks are gonna look for "real" buyers. Mr. Wong was a REAL buyer and the Bank was a REAL seller. If the other 121 units want to sell, they are gonna have to price their units for "REAL." They are pricing like 10% off 2008 prices and as if they were one of 7 units for sale.... ignoring the 114 units that have the same finishes, same walls, same location, same pool, same doorman, same windows, same elevators, same everything except elevation and line layouts.... it's like someone selling salt at a premium cause it's in nicer packaging... LMAO

silly, the f bombs are flying tonight, and one wonders why i would bother.

hey 67th, is the boat ready yet?

"and I have said that there would never be co-op bank sales. Exlcuding a few land lease buildings, I have yet to see a single bank owned co-op."

This is like the fourth time I've pointed out that about a month and a half ago? a Coop which is considered VERY solid for it's neighborhood had it's first foreclosure in it's almost 30 year history.

I'm also willing to bet, based on who is handling it, that it gets sold in a similar fashion to this one (RSB), even though several purchasers have tried to make deals and been given the old stiff arm.

there alpie... 30yrs said there was a co-op foreclosure... (i'm not being sarcastic, I really believe the guy)... now find another angle....

cal 2-30... yep, ready to sail : )

"and was sold to the bank for about $820k"

"The $820k transaction means nothing. It's not a real sale. It's likely the mortgage balance"

I have to agree with the second of those 2 statements, when held in a vacuum as they stand.

Although one thing to think about: it does say that no investor was willing to pull the pin at the $820K number.

"all I am saying is the banks are gonna look for "real" buyers. Mr. Wong was a REAL buyer and the Bank was a REAL seller."

And I am saying that I have a good deal of personal hands on experience which is that historically that has not happened.

Let me ask this, which is a different question: if I was buying units from banks which I turned around and immediately sold at a 33% markup, what would you call those sales? This is a real question, because I don't know the answer either. Maybe we call it the same way we called sales in new construction buildings where contracts were signed in 2005 but closing did not occur till 2007...... ?funny?

my guy at the bank asked me not to unload for 1 yr...so as to not make him look bad. But I always bought on a CF basis...

and there is a "value" of a guy willing to step into deals when asked on short notice for all concerned. Reputationally, one has to not get "too" great a deal if one wants to be in the game a long time... but my contacts have all left w/ these crazy bubble... it used to be there's be one or two of these deals that came along in the 90's.. be it a broker/attorney/bank contacts that I had... but w/ the bubble.. my services were no longer needed and I didn't want to touch the stuff they wanted to offload in the 2000-2007 period... it made no sense on any level....

comps on this building just went to 650 PSF. This building is fu%*&. No appraiser will allow for a loan any place near 1000 PSF.

samadams, no appraiser SHOULD allow. we shall see. and you're 100% right. appraisals SHOULD drive the market down.

I don't see any evidence that the buyer in this case got special treatment. Chase seems quite willing to sell REO at 220 RSB to anyone with a working browser. Try searching ZIP code 10069 at:
http://www.wamuproperties.com/

W81, Could WAMU do a worse job of getting the word out. The site leaves much to be desired.

why is one of the REOs $160k more? Does it have a better view or something? THat's quite a big price difference...

"appraisals SHOULD drive the market down."

And why shuld they? If appraisers come in low, they will find themselves out of work and black listed by the banks.

it seems to me that some irrationally (and sometimes fraudulently) high appraisals helped fuel this fiasco. i would think that appraisers would now want to err on the conservative side just to keep their business in tact. i would think that banks would want that too.

Here is the scenario to determine bottom. If an appraisal comes in below contract price then either the seller lowers price or buyer kicks in more equity. Until buyer puts in more than 50% of the difference, we have not hit bottom.

Alpie? R there more reo in prime NYC? : )

I agree apt23. The last thing that the banks want now is appraisers going overboard on value. If I were an appraiser I would be very cautious.

AGreed The_President has it all backwards. The aprraiser will be blackballed if the aprr. is high. Banks dont want to lend in NYC they know that prices will go down at least 20 percent more. This is going to be an ugly year for NYC prices.

Until the risk of losing the loan to a competitor becomes #1 issue.

Riversider the banks dont want to lend, they need the capital

True.

the banks love to lend, to clients with little chance of default at 30%. glad to see the bank bailout working so well.

Actually , in this market, they love lending.... if they can sell to the gov't

you guys are clueless if you think they want to lend in NYC right now. They dont even want to refi people

While I think that this sale is interesting, REO sales are always significantly lower than market. I do believe that this will drop the selling prices for this building, but I find it hard to believe that they will go down to 650 psf or anywhere close. Remember this was a low floor one bedroom with alot of competition around with a seller that wanted a quick closing. That is always worth a few dollars. I think that Mr. Wong got a great buy, but I don't think that it will be replicated with any regularity in newer, 'prime'(in the eyes of the beholder) location buildings. I would jump right now to buy one of the two bedrooms for sale in either this building or in 200 RSB for close to 650 psf. Am I crazy or realistic? Take your best shot at my comments.

Here's some history on 4A: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/4683-at-trump-place-220-220-rsb-some-lines-appear-to-be-nearing-2004-2005-price-levels

It came up recently on another thread (I remember looking up Pesahov and Wong) but can't find it....

skippy I would guess that an appraiser would put this building around 800 PSF now and I am sure that the next sale in this building will be under 900 PSF. Prices will go down faster then they went up

samadams, i'm about as big of a bear as you can find. read the post. it's kind of funny in a sick way.

skippy, 650 psf was the going price for a condo, nicer but normal with lower carrying costs, in late 2000. what about this situation 9 years later makes you think that prices should be higher than before two recessions, both of which did incredible damage to our workforce and economy? the only answer that works is bubble.

I think you are spot on. My only concern, it's a big city. I just don't care for that area. Seems like one big building with 7,000 apts that are masquerading as 7-10 different unique buildings over several blocks. So, is there enough interest in this section of town to allow a micro-market with tons of inventory and more in the pipeline to clear at a decent price point? Who the hell knows. But if I was an owner needing to sell, I would be a bit nervous.

you guys are clueless if you think they want to lend in NYC right now. They dont even want to refi people
servicing fee income vs origination fee?
but if this is a new loan via GSE then NO RISK

riversider, it's absof'ng stunning how few people caught on to what the government was doing to the taxpayers with the various GSE programs. in order to avoid congress and a request for more stimulus, they just amped up the GSEs to their maximum loaning capacity, which was set lord knows when. ginnie mae (who the f has heard of ginnie, now really?) now has around a trillion dollars worth of loans guaranteed by the taxpayers. and a large percentage of them subprime.

to those of you who think the markets can't tank further, and hard? the taxpayer doesn't have that much oomph left. good luck.

Good point A.R.
Barney Frank considers Freddie and Fannie a tool Probably why all the heads are quitting(no disrespect to Kellerman)

I just don't care for that area. Seems like one big building with 7,000 apts that are masquerading as 7-10 different unique buildings

I agree. The bubble and the over building may be responsible for the downturn in prices in these buildings but let's not forget Mr. Trump. He should have given away commercial sites in those buildings to make it palatable living. He should have given a high end market like Whole Foods and top restaurants and cafes and stores a deal they could not have refused. There should have been a shuttle to and from Broadway every 2 minutes. I LOVE to walk in NY, but that walk from the waterfront to the subway is like walking thru Siberia in the winter. It could have been a sought after location. But everyone I know that lives there complains about the isolation there. Trump screwed these buyers. When this development loses value for all those buyers, combined with the Trump horrendous, horrendous, hubristic developments in Miami, the Trump name may be forever tarnished. In a few years, it might have an altogether different meaning in RE. I could foresee these buildings changing the name just to retain value in the building.

riversider, as i've said here before, i have pretty much only sympathy for the gse's these days.

and in the past, i don't know enough but i suspect i'd have sympathy there as well. quasi-governmental agencies being the perfect set up for blame, and then becoming fully governmental agencies, but the average american is confused as hell so they'll likely just continue to blame the heads of the GSEs rather than the powers that be.

fuck them. and i don't mean the gse's.

He should have given a high end market like Whole Foods and top restaurants and cafes and stores a deal

To encourage Rats?

A.R.
the average person at Fannie & Freddie are hard working. The bad guys are gone.
It's interesting how at first they fought the subprime lending until they learned to love the fake profits..Thank you Maxine Waters, Barney Frank & Frank Cisneros.
The gov't pretty much pushed them into investing in subprime to cement a political base I imagine. I'll avoid reposting the now-famous Barney Frank quotes.

someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that banks will decide or refuse to lend because a city MIGHT see a certain price decline. Such a practice is borderline redlining, which is illegal. Bnaks are mainly concerned with current coms, not what they might be in the future. And why would a bank efuse to lend in NYC? They were lending all along in CA anf FL and hey have seen substantially more dereciation than NYC. If you want a house in Phoenix or a condo in Miami (housing crash central), you wll get the loan.

A.R. --- I meant Henry Cisneros

And Pres... banks can do many things that set the tone in how they allocate capital...These decisions determine how aggressive they will or won't be in a particular market.

Redlining?? That's a stretch.

if that is the case Rversider then why did banks lend in FL, CA, AZ, and NV wile they saw double digit declines? To say that banks will lend in these places but not in NYC makes no sense.

If you want a house in Phoenix or a condo in Miami (housing crash central), you wll get the loan.

I bought in Miami last year. We have high 700's credit rating, put 30% down, had entire purchase price in bank --in cash--and it was like pulling teeth getting the loan (Wells Fargo). Most difficult loan we have ever attempted. Bank challenged the comps of their own appraiser. And this was before Lehman went down. The minute banks start seeing a downturn in NYC, watch out. They will clamp up tighter than .....(will leave blank for ur own joke). This one at 220 is already up on the boards at Chase. Just for fun, go see what kind of loan you can get on one of the 36 apts at 220 from Chase. Good luck to ya.

RS: To encourage Rats? Ha. Actually if Trump had a few rats in his Miami buildings, it would double the occupancy --literally. Let's hope it doesn't happen here.

alpie, you don't understand the cycle, and why NYC hits later and harder. at first banks will do much to keep lending going. for many reasons. and at a certain point they won't, and can't.

"the Trump name may be forever tarnished"

May be? It has been for a long time. Not that it ever connoted high-end....

and a larger percentage of loans are conforming elsewhere, particularly for condos. think about the implications, alpie. just think.

then why did banks lend in FL, CA, AZ, and NV wile they saw double digit declines?

that was then, this is now. prices in those areas continued to fall precisely because the banks tightened. hence, the generous govt stepped in to try to get them to increase lending -- which didn't really happen.

A big part of Manhattan is above the Conforming-Jumbo limits of Fannie Freddie...

If they can deliver a loan to GSE it should not matter what part of the country the loan was originated in.

If they can deliver a loan to GSE it should not matter what part of the country the loan was originated in.

Agreed. I'm talking jumbo. it may not matter what area, but standards are tougher all around including for conforming.

Market for loans that big doesn't exist right now...

do gse's even do jumbo?