moving to new york

Christopher street in the west village is a great place to start

Midtown east or west?

yes, that matters. Go by train line. If West, I love the W village, but expensive. $2k could be tough. UWS cheaper, but I don't know if I'd call that "fun". Chelsea might be doable, and you could maybe even walk to work.

If you're on east side, UES is best value, but I don't know if I'd recommend for early 30s first time in the city. E village will be a bit more expensive, but $2k is doable in central spots (figure a walkup large studio/1 bed) and you'll be in the middle of some nightlife. Murray Hill is also likely walkable, and its not as slow as the UES, not as loud as the E village, but might be a decent compromise, close to things.

In the middle, I'm a fan off off union square, but its expensive, or too close to NYU. Flatiron also not cheap. Central village, I'd avoid. Also too nyu, lousy housing stock. You'd be better off going a little more east (east of say 4th ave) or west (of 7th)

I'd avoid Financial District. Good value, but commute isn't that short and the nightlife isn't there yet.

And are you open to outer boroughs? Cheaper, although I might not recommend it if you have the budget and don't know the city yet. Better to start "in" I think, then move outward as you learn more.

we have a handshake to rent our midtown doorman condo -- which is a big studio with a separate 5 by 8 room that is either a tiny den or a big walk-in closet -- to a friend for $1,950/mo. At $2,000, you should be able to pretty much have your pick of buildings if you're willing to live in a studio.

Prices generally rise every ten or twenty blocks you go downtown, so if you want to live in the Village, be prepared to pay more, and live in a place that's smaller.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

yorkville UES all the way..where the chics are preppy and the beer is cheap

east 50's between 1st and 3rd ave. Good subway access, good restaurants and bars off of 2nd ave. Reasonaby priced apartments.

east 50s are very nice and have decent restaurants, but the young scene is limited generally to weeknights, with a few horrid exceptions.

take a look at kips bay/murray hill. frat central, but many blocks are quite lovely and low-key, so you can have both worlds. recent article somewhere about how badly murray hill landlords are doing because few younger people can afford to move to manhattan. rents should be at least 10% lower than what you see listed, at least, if you are not moving in the summer, and you consider incentives.

UES is becoming a much more mixed scene, in my opinion. back in the day (i'm ancient) it had plenty of awful bars where young people could be found, and plenty of mediocre restaurants where people with plastic surgery could be found. now i'm seeing much more interesting stuff up there. and yes that was an exaggeration, but anyone who had to suffer through a brunch at Mortimers knows what i mean. and the rents are great. if your work is on the west side, hell's kitchen is another option. odd, i lived there for years, but now have only a "tourist's" view of the neighborhood, going there 5-6 times a year. and there are rumors that Rudy's is about to close, so there goes the hood.

the other young areas are better for visiting, not living, as they are still very overpriced. good luck.

btw, if you're interested in the east 50s it's not as though fun places aren't close. you're in between the two neighborhoods i suggested, and the east 50s does have some places that are OK week long. and it could be terrifically convenient to work, giving you more time to roam for fun. and if you're young you should be roaming, that's what cabs are for!!

jpm is early 30's, not exactly a recent grad though

> take a look at kips bay/murray hill. frat central, but many blocks are quite lovely and low-key, so you can have both worlds.

Amusingly, same thing in the 50s. 2nd and 3rd has some SUPERnice blocks. 50th in particular I always liked.

I think the advantage it has over the 20s/30s that far east is... no projects! gets sorta shady as you get closer to 2nd down there.

otherwise, these are extremely similar neighborhoods.

and....as stated, GREAT subway access, 456, n,r,w on 59th, e, v and 6 on east 53 (at 3rd ave, not lex like most places) and if you are further down in the 40's, the time square shuttle. i can tell you are a neighbor nyc10022 from your zip, same as mine

50th is beaautiful, and 51st has some great restaurants and bars between 2nd and 3rd

eastsidebroker, young single is young single. yes, younger is a bit different, but.

10022, yes, and i realized that. and posted again. but the bars for youngsters in the east 50s cater to after-work crowds, not locals. and that does create a different scene.

not to belabor a point, but i live in this neighborhood....while there is a pretty heavy happy hour scene, it doesnt crap out after 9pm or anything, but yes the crowd does change some

and it is pretty affordable

it has much to offer. if i were to buy, it would be one of my prime neighborhoods. i like it tremendously. and i worked at 57th and madison for 4 years, and my husband currently works in the east 50s, so i'm there a lot.

i think for affordability it's about the same as MH or Kips Bay, slightly less affordable than Yorkville, but you will get the nicest returns in terms of quality for price in MH and the east 50s. not trying to knock down any neighborhood, really.

i guess im a homer....really love living here, but it does have a lot more to do with accessability, liveability and safety than it does with the after after hours nightlife some might look for

What about Gramercy? I know it's a little more expensive than Murray Hill or Midtown East, but very accessible to those areas and good transit, no? Also seems to be more of a real neighborhood, with more character than Murray Hill. Of course this is all coming from a twentysomething professional who hasn't even moved to NYC yet, but is doing the same kind of homework as JP.

the 2k you spend in Midtown East will get you much better space and or ameneties than in a prime Gramercy spot.

jpm,

First where is your job located?

Are you crazy to come to NY?

That's the last thing I would do right now. How secure is your new job?
I hear a lot of ramblings of major cut backs across all kind of industries.
NY state is bankrupt and NY City is not far away from it.

HT1,

NYS is B'Rupt? And NYC is not far away from it?

he is coming here because he got a job offer

yes guys, let's send all these people to gramercy so they can be happy and also, learn to behave in a place where they can't do too much harm in the beginning.

I really don't know why anybody bothers to answer this sort of original post when virtually no information is given as to who the person is, what he likes to do, how he likes to commute, eat, exercise, etc. Noise-sensitivity, doorman need, on and on.

And what exactly is "fun"? Is it a trapeze school? A rifle range? Sex club? Finger-painting? A night at the opera? A day at the races? Watching a just released movie every single Saturday night, no matter what?

well with his budget being what it is, and since he is going to be working in Midtown, and with the available reasonably priced apartments, my advice is east 50's between 1st and 3rd.

can't care less about that neighborhood.

"well with his budget being what it is, and since he is going to be working in Midtown, and with the available reasonably priced apartments, my advice is east 50's between 1st and 3rd."

Not if he's gay.

east 50's is not a notorious gay neighborhood

or are you saying that if he is gay he wouldnt want to live there? that would probably be true

Matt means that that area used to be one of the most notorious rent-boy districts in the city.

really? my (relative) youth betrays me. had no idea

I love the east fifties, too; I'd also add the east 40s. I understand what alanhart is saying but the reality may be that JP doesn't really know what info is relative, either; Manhattan ain't Kansas.

i have lived here (east 50th btw 1st and 2nd) and i don't think i would ever leave. although public schools around here aren't the best.

the east 50s has a substantial stock of family-sized apartments and no great public school options. i think that has kept prices relatively low for such a nice area.

where do kids (elementary school) go to school here? anyone know?

I agree with aboutready. For years I told people that the east 50's and east 40's were the most underpriced, best value, areas in the city, because they were not considered "family" neighborhoods, even with many family sized apartments. Considering that so many kids go to private schools,or schools outside their immediate area, and travel to the school (don't just walk) the value is there (except for all those flashy new condos that went up for the foreign buyers).

Andi if you don't have kids, theater, restaurants, shopping - all within easy reach

and because of crosstown subways, easy access to virtually every business district in the city, although i wouldnt really want to commute to the uws from here.

"or are you saying that if he is gay he wouldnt want to live there? that would probably be true"

Yes, that's what I"m saying. The neighborhood is loaded with breeders, strollers, and mostly un-fabulous bars and restaurants.

jpm, you might want to try the neighborhood. at least you won't risk having matt for a neighbor.

"10022, yes, and i realized that. and posted again. but the bars for youngsters in the east 50s cater to after-work crowds, not locals. and that does create a different scene."

You are right, I forgot about the distinction, but I think it just matters which bars you pick. There is a mix of both in the 50s.

So maybe chalk it up as an advantage, you get some of each in the east 50s, where 30s is mostly local.

I also called 2nd avenue in the 50s the Irish Riviera.

if you want downtown chic bars and restaurants you will pay downtown pricing for it nycmatt. east 50's with a 2k budget will get you a great apartment, either doorman studio/small 1 bed, or a true one bed in a nice elevator building, or if you are going to a lower price point lots of options in pretty well kept walk ups. true, not an awesome locale if you are looking for a good gay scene. and if you hit the bars on the side streets (not right on 2nd ave) there is more local flavor and some more hip options.

jpm - although you seem to have disappeared from this post... My recommendation is to find a short-term rental to start with (1-3 months, anywhere close to work), then explore the city, and get a feel for the different neighborhoods. Once you find an area you personally like, find a longer term place there.

Early 30s may be too old for Murray Hill/Kips Bay. Not kidding, it seems to be where people get their first apartment out of college. Plus its a pita to get to work if you work in midtown west, you can walk in nice weather but come January you will be schlepping on multiple trains or just coughing up cab fare.
Hell's Kitchen and the area going up towards Columbus Circle (west of 8th ave...otherwise you are snap dab in the tourist zone) is a nice fun area with lots of great cheap reataurants and bars, it does have a large gay population (probably the majority) but there seems to be plenty of hetero nightlife as well.

Gramercy is very quiet but convenient to numerous happening 'hoods.

I also like the East 40s/50s area everyone is talking about for convenience. Not trendy but hardly a suburban wasteland.

By the way, to confirm an earlier post. Fifty third and third was the center of gay prostitution in NYC in the 70s and 80s (possibly earlier, I just didn't know about these things in kindergarten). Several songs from the era refer to it directly (Rod Stewart's "The Killing of Georgie" for example). Runaway boys from the Midwest and other places ended up there as regularly as their female equivilants found or were forced on the "Minnesota Strip" of 8th Avenue so named becaused of the young, midwestern girls selling themselves there usually under the vigilant eye of pimps who exploited and often battered them. The same things happened to the boys on 53rd and 3rd...however they were often joined by local youths of self-proclaimed heterosexuality (I question this now) who were looking to make a quick buck--usually for drugs--from men looking for underage partners. Unfortunately, for all concerned, in addition to the pyschological toll of prostitution especially on a teenager, the heyday of 53rd and 3rd also coincided with the silent insidious spread of HIV in New York in the late 70s. Many of these unfortunate boys ended up paying the ultimate price for their desire to get away from a dull existance whether on the farm by coming to New York on on the corner by getting high.

funny...i live on 53rd and 3rd. i had no idea. certainly not the flavor of the neighborhood now, that is for sure

From Dee Dee Ramone's bio on wikipedia- "Dee Dee wrote or co-wrote most of the Ramones' repertoire, such as "53rd and 3rd" (a song about male prostitution at 53rd Street and 3rd Avenue in Manhattan, allegedly based on personal experience), . . ."

Thanks, Liz, for elaborating on Matt's post.

"possibly earlier, I just didn't know about these things in kindergarten"
... and PS 41 is supposed to be such a great school!!!

ill have to listen to it on i-tunes.....i live here currently as stated and my curiosity is about what elementary school kids go to here.

"Early 30s may be too old for Murray Hill/Kips Bay. Not kidding, it seems to be where people get their first apartment out of college"

You can say that about half the neighborhoods mentioned.... but I think this one is actually older.

There is some of that (like almost anywhere), less than previous, but that is not the dominant force in the neighborhood anymore. Tons of strollers now, surprisingly. And tons of doctors/residents (one of the side streets is known as doctors row). The hospitals just have TONS of these folks here, many in their 30s.

I'm not particularly awesome at guessing ages, but definitely an older crowd than the evillage or central village scenes.

Now, mind you, if you ONLY walk into tonic. ;-)

I feel like Rodeo Bar, for instance, is much more 30s than 20s. And food places are older. Banc bar seemed to have a bunch of divorces.

You just have to know your spots.

banc bar is an older scene than most of the murry hill bars for sure.....murray hill is popular for sure, and i rent apartments to people there. for whatever reason the neighborhood leaves me cold. too much traffic due to midtown tunnel and zero green space. east 50's has no green space, but better proximity to central park

lizyank, some of the hilly streets in the high 30s are lovely and quiet. i much prefer downtown, but it's much more expensive. and the scene seems much more mixed now. i too remember the Rodeo Bar of the 1980s, and this does not seem the same.

the local elementary school has become quite popular, that might explain the increased family element. when you go to 'inoteca, you see the kids (younger than 10, i mean).

but you are quite right, many would hate it. as AH wrote, hard to tell from the OP what he would like. just trying to point out convenient, inexpensive neighborhoods to midtown that have a younger element.

Eastside, PS 59 Beekman Hill International is the local grammar school for the east 50s

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/school/ps59-manhattan

"banc bar is an older scene than most of the murry hill bars for sure.....murray hill is popular for sure, and i rent apartments to people there. for whatever reason the neighborhood leaves me cold. too much traffic due to midtown tunnel and zero green space. east 50's has no green space, but better proximity to central park"

Agreed, the tunnel is annoying... but don't forget the upper 50s have the bridge, too. A little pretty, but still congested.

Though the charleston... whoah, did those folks get a raw deal!

As for green space, I agree. There is that great little small park waterfall on 51. Kinda hidden, but cool when you're in it. And then you walk east to the sutton terraces, nice spots there. Some were just reclaimed from private. But, yeah, you really have to walk to CP to get real green. Still better than the 30s.

cheers drdrd

One advantage to the 30s, though... Union Square / Madison Square is for the most part walkable...

bridge sucks but it seems more localized above 57th than the mess the midtown tunnel causes, with all of those extra entrance roads and stuff. and i love the little green spaces by the river, they add to the quality of life in the area. as far as i know murray hill doesnt have anything like that

I love the little pocket parks in the east 40s/50s, many with a wall of water in the warmer months ....aahhhhhh!

yes, it is that much further downtown and gives better proximity. but alot of the housing stock in murrray hill is pretty bunk and overpriced.

drdrd do you send your kids to this school? know anyone who has? not a ton of reviews from the schools website, and what is there is outdated

http://www.greatschools.net/school/parentReviews.page?id=2227&state=NY

this seems pretty valuable actually. seems like a good ps for the kiddies

"midtown doorman condo"

Ali, did you hear him say fun? Why not go the whole way and recommend the West 30s to him?

Whoever said Chelsea is on target. East Village works too.

2k budget in chelsea though.....i guess he did say he doesnt need so much space.

I think Chelsea landlords are hurting a bit. Not so much space is kind of a given. Can get 500-550 sqft for his budget, no?

i would think so, but it will probably preclude a doorman, or even an elevator. not that the op said he wanted either. just that 2k won't go quite as far as it could elsewhere.

esb, check out insideschools.org.

the school moved recently. i'd have to say that's a positive thing, because the physical plant at the previous location wasn't so pleasant. does very well on scores. wasn't very highly regarded when we considered the neighborhood in 2000, but much has changed in the elementary school area.

If you take him at face value for 'fun'..Chelsea works.. East Village. If you send him to Murray Hill, you run afoul. I think UES/Yorkville is not as bad as people like to make it out to be.

saw a site that gave them pretty good marks. insideschools was the one that didnt seem to have much.

http://www.greatschools.net/school/parentReviews.page?id=2227&state=NY

this one did.

agreed. the cheap apartments in yorkville make it attractive to young people. and who the hell else can walk that far to the subway twice a day? and you can get a great place for a relative bargain there.

insideschools, though, has the best respected info. and it marks it as a good school, with good reading and math scores.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/509019-coop-200-east-16th-14g-east-village-new-york

Sorry to beat a dead horse...But its really amazing to me that the rental options are better today in this price range then they were in 2001 when I moved back here from business school. Thats a cute apartment you found. And what is that, around the corner from that good bar on Irving...the old place what is it called again. Is it Peter's?

rhino, i must confess that one surprised me also. i don't look in that price range much, only know what i hear, and did a search and got a number of places.

i know this is a coop, but it's also in a doorman elevator building, looks charming, and is close but not too close to Union Square. Pete's Tavern. I didn't think I would find anything, at least not easily. 200 east 16th should be at third avenue, near St. George's church. I believe i looked at a convertible 2 bedroom to buy there in 1999-2000, was too small but the building was charming.

that is nice...coop though. could be tough or at least a protracted process for someone coming in to the city with a new job, etc

Come on. Any coop allowing renting to begin with is going to be flexible in this market.

AR - I rented an alcove studio on 95th & Broadway for $1850. In terms of neighborhood alone this kicks that ass. Stuggling to see why anyone would want to buy until we at least trace out 2000 prices. Rents are lower, maintenances are much higher.

it is still more protracted than a straight rental from a straight rental property. i don't know the timeline. and the fees can be high as well. not saying it is not worth a go for the right person

That E. 16th one has a big "sold" banner on it, so I question whether it ever existed or it is in fact mere bait.

high 30's and 40's have tudor city park - very green - quiet

ah, on the broker's web site? rentals are notoriously out of date, but it wouldn't be common (not unheard of, but not common, either) to use a coop as bait.

i wouldnt be suprised to see a coop rental priced that way, given that they are more difficult to rent

OK, here's another coop. btw, there are a bunch that aren't coops, but they have little to no description and few pictures. the hanging elevated bed might not be everyone's cup of tea, but again a very good location.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/550821-coop-4-lexington-avenue-gramercy-park-new-york

Please. Tutor city is an effing awful suggestion. The whole damn place smells like old people. This kid should go to East Village, Chelsea or the Upper East side. It depends if cool or space is the decider. Avoid Murray Hill...Its a cheap imitation of the UES.

i would be scared during extracaricullar activities up there i think

thats the whole thing, price, size and location. the cooler the location the smaller the place at a higher rent, etc. its why i like "sleeper" neighborhoods, like mine

esb, yes, he might remain single.

here's a chelsea contender.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/557393-rental-210-west-17th-street-chelsea-new-york

i think that the suggestion is that tudor city park provides murray hill with some sort of green space, but it is not really in murray hill. i dont think many people on 35th and lex are going to go to 42nd and 1st ave for that little sliver of space

What is yours? I am married so its a different story...but I actually think the UES is better now that its the place people have hyped as a place to avoid.

another lofty kind of place ar

i am in the east 50's rhino...off of 2nd ave

here's a chelsea contender.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/557393-rental-210-west-17th-street-chelsea-new-york

****

OOOH! Refrigerator in the living room.

Klassy.

esb, if there is any time to give up space for location it is when you are young and single. it looks as though every "fun" neighborhood is likely within his price range, especially as this is summer pricing i'm looking at. he said he doesn't need much room, so...

I enjoyed living in the West 50s. Its much closer to the park on 9th or 10th than if you are on 3rd or 2nd in the East 50s. Come to think Hell's Kitchen is a good option for this person.

speaking of klassy, here's the resident asshole.

matt, honey, don't you need to go reject a couple of coop applicants?

i agree...i said the same earlier in the thread. i guess i am only holding out cause he says he works in midtown. you can live in pretty much any neighborhood you want in town with 2k per month, and if space isn't important than you can have your pick.

of course people say space isn't important till they see the box they might be choosing to live in for the next 12 months. space is relative, especially for people who have never lived here before.

that train from Union Square is fast. one stop, depending on where you are talking about in midtown. but you are right on one level, it is nice to be able to walk to work or take a 5-minute cab if you need to, particularly if the hours are not so pleasant.

I always found that a TRUE 500 sqft was livable if arranged correctly and had decent closets NEAR THE BATHROOM. Living in 350-40 sqft is bullshit. This is the vain in which I am suggesting East Village (include ARs east teens suggestions), Hell's Kitchen and Chelsea.

500 sq ft is cool....even 450. it is amazing how many apartment layouts are not conducive to having at least a queen sized bed (on the floor and not suspended over your sofa), a sofa with coffee table, and at lease a small dining table/area. and a seperate kitchen or at least an alcove for on. i am not a minimialist, but to me, those are essential must haves in an apartment. and a place for all the clothes of course

I'm curious to know JP/jpm's thoughts on these hundred or so posts.