Check out Hamilton Lofts

Beautiful spaces, gorgeous pictures. Terrible neighborhood.

Amazing apts but 50% overpriced.

Holy Jesus! I didn't even look at the prices!!! For $639K in that neighborhood you should get an entire townhouse.

I don't love the neighborhood and don't prefer newer construction but I don't think the prices are that wildly out of whack. Under 600 sq ft is not insanity for the space. Having not seen the space, though, if the construction is crappy then disregard the statement. My assumption is that it is of solid quality.

If you have kids and space is your concern and you prefer not to leave the city then you'd be shocked at how fast your options drop if you're not very wealthy. We always lived downtown. Loved it. If we has millions of dollars we would have stayed. But, we don't and wanted to stay in the city so we headed to Washington Heights. We love it. Very different from downtown and forced us to change ceetain things. But, I'd imagine we're not al that unusual so it would not suprise me if these places sell for about 500 sq. ft. to young families who are not feaked by leaving their comfort zone.

ok, I know everyone is going to call me a racist, but, in the neighborhood pictures section, why are there so many white people? We all know there are hardly any white people up there. What did you guys do, hire a bunch of white people from downtown and bus them up there???

Give it time eliz, within the next 12/18month you'll have so much choice for Manhattan housing at $600/square feet, nobody will ever consider moving all the way up there as an option...

The census bureau stats for HH say 10030 is 16% white, and 10031 is 21% white. The first is 65% black, the second only 32% black. So yes perhaps you are a bit racist.

http://realestate.nytimes.com/community/10031-Hamilton-Heights-New-York-NY-usa/demographics

...and the newer developments above 96th are all, when I have toured them, more white than the surrounding areas, and in some cases most of the people I see in the lobby, gym, etc, are white.

Jason, I live in 10031. This is a matter of statistical interpretation.

The "white" percentages in the nyt profile are a reflection of census methodology, which doesn't match real-world breakdowns of ethnicity. Latinos are cut into self-determined "white" and "black" buckets ... almost all the "white" people shown in that zip are Dominican (i.e. Hispanic or Latino), while the "black" people are either African-American or Dominican.

Nowhere near 21% white by the measure the "man on the street" uses. Probably <1%.

Here's an exemple that aboutready just pointed out on another thread:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/390453-coop-222-east-80th-street-yorkville-new-york
Some Apts on the upper east side are offered at the same price than these... Gotta be stupid to pay that kind of money in Hamilton.

sledgehammer. as i said, i love downtown and would have stayed. i am not implying uptown is better or that it should command downtown prices. what i am saying is from my experience in looking it is very difficult to find properties laid out for families. either they are large, but walk ups. or cheap new construction. it kind of makes sense when you read about the evolution of the city. much as i love trendy downtown, its not all that easy to raise a family in a former tenemant or buy a loft space and reconfigure it with bedrooms. if a property is large, well laid out and ina nice location it will likely always be priced quite high. again, real estate is one of the more personal decisions so i am not trying to guide anyones decision. just sharing the experience of a very comfortable but not wealthy NYer with a family looking for a home in the city and how we came to live on 157th st.

alpine292. i don't think ypu're a racist but your staement that 'hardly any white people live up there' is just ill informed. you could go up and walk around and see that many white people do live there. not even sure why this is relevant? is your real point that if the population is not white then the property values should be lower? should chelsea property values go down because a lot of homosexuals live there?

Eliz, if you're raising a family, schools are probably much better around the upper east side apt i posted than in Hamilton. I'll become a father by the summer and am on the sideline at the moment. Where ever we'll decide to buy will be based on how good are public schools in the Neighbourhood we pick as we plan to live in the apt for many years.

I agree schools are a major concern. When we picked our location we decided on private school since we didn't love the local PS. It's all been a series of tradeoffs. Our housing overhead is low so we are OK with paying tuition. But, yes, I agree totally that schools can drive housing decisions.

Well, gay men bring up property values (all those TINKs) so no.

That location is not really part of Hamilton Heights

The borders aren't exactly clear by any standards I have seen. I am a Hamilton Heights resident- and as I understood it, Edgecombe is included in Hamilton Heights- but I am fairly certain that the southern border ends at the point where Edgecombe and Bradhurst meet- which is at 141st. Streeteasy shows Edgecombe being included as far south as 135th st. To add more confusion- Streeteasy lists the building as Central Harlem and not Hamilton Heights. This building has a zip code 10030- I thought Hamilton Heights zip codes were 10031. Propertyshark doesn't have the address listed yet- but the established building next door is listed as Central Harlem/ 32nd Police Precinct- def. not Hamilton Heights.

I think these links provide a pretty accurate map and description of the Hamilton Heights boundaries. 'Upper' Edgecombe would be considered part of Sugar Hill, not Hamilton Heights. And that is what I've heard oldtimers say as well.

http://www.hdc.org/boundarieshhshmap.htm
http://www.hdc.org/boundarieshhsh.htm

Those links are accurate maps and descriptions of the Historic District of Hamilton Heights only but does nothing to describe the entire boundaries of Hamilton Heights. Hamilton Heights does extend as far West as the Hudson and as far south as 135th- it's the eastern boundary that has discrepancies everywhere. I did meet one historian that said the southern boundary is 136th St- but not only is 135th a natural boundary by it's wide 2 way street, but it's also the boundary set by the districts.

"ok, I know everyone is going to call me a racist, but, in the neighborhood pictures section, why are there so many white people? We all know there are hardly any white people up there. What did you guys do, hire a bunch of white people from downtown and bus them up there???"

Alpine, I'm glad you're the one who said it and not me! Seriously, I'm in that neighborhood quite frequently and I'm often the only white face up there. Amazing how they just happened to get so many white people in those street shots! Apparently, all 8 white residents just happened to be out at the same time ... in the same block.

The problem with saying Hamilton Heights extends as far east as Edgecombe is that you overlap into Sugar Hill, which had a long history of being the most desirable area of Harlem. Although HH is hot today, I really doubt anyone who lived north of 145th on Edgecombe or St. Nick in say, 1950, would describe the area as Ham Heights but they most certainly would have distinguished it as Sugar Hill. In the first line of the description of the property that is subject of this thread, the development location is described as "nestled between Strivers Row and Sugar Hill," which I think is accurate.

I always found the South/West borders of Ham Heights more difficult to ascertain. West of Hamilton Place and South of 140th has a look and feel that is different than the rest of Hamilton Heights, yet I don't know what other neighborhood I would have it designated.

In all fairness to the developers, the couple walking down the street looks Latino (albeit "blanco"), and the white bikers are a very common sight on RSD and the Hudson path in the 10031 -- pedaling through to the GWB and beyond. So I'm not sure they're misrepresenting the neighborhood quite so much.

Those posters who are hung up about the "whiteness" of an area are typical non-Native NYers. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a segregated city like Chicago, where it's whites on the North and blacks on the South and West almost without exception.

This is NYC, multiculturalism and ethnicity are what make it great. All of uptown, Harlem, Northern Manhattan, whatever you call it has undergone a transformation. Whereas it was extremely rare to see a white face above 96th or 110th street before, now they are everywhere.

It amazes me the small town mentality of people. "Oh, I can't live anywhere where there's more blacks than whites." Why don't you look at the crime statistics for the area. That's a more legitimate concern. If the area is all white but has a robbery and homicide problem, I wouldn't move there.

kingdeka, you're missing the point entirely.

The pictures of the neighborhood are not representative of the demographic, period. You can spout off about multiculturalism all you want, but the fact remains that the ONLY faces in the photos are white, which is an outright lie about the neighborhood's demographic makeup.

They want to get white people to feel comfortable coming to look at their apts. Simple. Its why all the marketing I have seen for most of the new condos above 96th have mostly white faces in the pics.

And amazingly, it seems to be working, as the NYT wrote about recently.

And why not? It worked for the University of Wisconsin:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_18_98/ai_66157053/

Speak to people in the neighborhood to see how you feel there, don't make assumptions based on what you see, that's where racism and classism take hold. Trust your instincts but remember to always view them through the lens of oppression, it exists and we are all taught it. Whether we have the social power to enforce it or not, it informs us.
But back to the subject that brought me to this discussion -- Does anyone know anything else about this building or the developers? Or how bad 145th St is in terms of traffic noise?

145th Street is very noisy, and I doubt that anyone with pockets deep enough to pay $620K for a two-bedroom apartment would be happy with the crappy stores and restaurants in the area. Your whole life will revolve around the A and D trains (luckily both express stops at 145th) because you'll be wanting to head downtown for everything.

This building is nearly 5 blocks from 145th St- you won't hear traffic noise from there in this building. I did attend an open house in this building. Overall I was very impressed with many of the thoughtful details in this apartment. This is Central Harlem (near the Hamilton Heights border- but not Hamilton Heights as it's promoted), and caught between nicer sections and crappy sections of the area. Personally, I believe these apartments need to come down in price substantially and I know the developer will be reluctant to do so. I am not a fan of side by side bedrooms, which is the general layout of these units and does impact my evaluation of pricing. Obviously this is a personal preference- but a lot of people do take this into consideration when considering an apartment and subsequently, the price.

eliz "If you have kids and space is your concern and you prefer not to leave the city then you'd be shocked at how fast your options drop if you're not very wealthy" If you loved your kids you wouldn't send them to public school in Harlem.

We visited a few weeks ago for an open house. There was only one apartment which was finished and could be looked at. It was very nice. There was a lot of construction going on during the open house. They told us we could move in in a couple of weeks, which seems ridiculous.

I think they are going to have a lot of trouble selling those units until they drop the prices further.

Hamilton Lofts is ready for occupancy. Residents are moving in now.

romy:

nice job on hamilton lofts! I assume that you are the developer. How many units are now sold?

@ ROMYGO
I toured an open house and was impressed. Will you be constructing any simular developments at a more affordable price range in the future?

no security far as i can tell - fabulously built...........but really 'tight' in design, Living/Dining/Kitchen is great - however, washer/dryer is between master bath and 'second' bath.....without ventilation. W/no access to ventilation, I have experienced mold, mold, and more mold for this exact reason. and as one looks at the building from the exteriior one notes that windows/outdoor balconies/terraces/yards exist only front/back - that is east and west. With no vents/windows appearing on the exterior walls which face south and north. Hmmmmmm

Having Said that - Romygo is, in fact, to be given heaps of kudos for being at least the best developer Manhattan has seen in a long time (and a woman to boot) designing, building, constructing one of the best 'boutique' buildings anywhere in Manhattan. Her imprimatur on 48 Bond Street, downtown, and Hamilton Park (136th Street) went immediately - during a market boom. Prior to that she had worked her butt off here, Washington, DC, and CA (after grad school in this biz). She was project manager for the Kalahari - gorgeous building with 240 apartments smack in the middle of the recently 'upgrading' process going on in Harlem.

NYC has turned into a really really tough place to live. 'Neighborhoods' other than Harlem are no longer distinguishable from each other, developers/sponsors/Managementcompanies/Real Estate Brokers "development marketing' arms have changed the landscape of what it takes to build/convert/sell/buy anything here anymore.

Currently, the market is so 'soft' ..... and who knows where it is going except for price points the very wealthy can afford (remember when 1 or 2 million dollars/year made one a millionaire? not anymore anywhere, and certainly not in NYC).......that her average price psf in the 5 units she has sold (3 at 117 Edgecombe and 2 at 121 Edgecombe) ....(after reducing her initial prices immediately upon opening - this gal is no dummy) ..... comes in at $539 p/sf.......

........which is, I think, pretty good - as well as affordable for these beautifully designed 1,135 - 1,280 sf apartments. PLUS you get a storage cage - LARGE ones. She must be chewing nails, however, as anything is a tough sell these days - particularly in what is now becoming an 'unknown' neighborhood - rather than hot.

Anyone moving up here will be taking a risk - that is the whole point. Harlem has done a GREAT job of protecting it's residents while engaging in new development and 'gentrifying' their own bad-ass selves (having lived up here and downtown.....when there was no SOHO, NOHO, TRIBECA, DUMBO, CHELSEA, etc. There was 'wall street' 'the bowery' 'lower east side' (men's shelter/hell's angels on east 3rd street - all the missions, volunteers of america, and kitchen supply places) little italy, chinatown, 'the garment district' (ugh - the rag trade and garmentos!)hell's kitchen, midtown (and it is still midtown, not fit for human habitation just retail/commerce) upper east side (up to about 79th street, that is) upper west side (below 79th street) - en fin! For better or worse, all wiped off the face of the earth forever - w/the exception of teensy pockets (the harlem market, Grand Street/Chinatown - The Tenement Museum on the lower east side - ....)

I only wish that developers/brokers/realtors - whatever they call themselves would just get with the program and do a few 'reality checks' ........that boom market where EVERYTHING in Manhattan, Brooklyn was raging AND overpriced simply will NEVER happen again. Unless you're really really young with a really really great job and on some really really known career path (doesn't exist anymore except in Academics - and they never get rich - but what a lifestyle!) or a trust fund baby - or a retiree who's planned for all the warts/wens/ups and downs of markets, the corrupt and miserable investment banking - and 'banking' industry......who can afford to lay down half to 3/4 of a million bucks (closing costs/moving/redecorating, etc.........ALL moves involve these cost elements and should be factored in) for a small apartment where one doesn't know if one can 'nest' or not - in peace?

Used to be that banks where one deposited ones money - which in turn was used by the banks to make money - which, in turn, gave loans to customers at a small interest rate. Manhattan, no matter how one cuts is - is beyond expensive. I agree w/Elizabeth 1184 - Manhattan is NO longer for families unless one is wealthy - so up up uptown we go ..... and I do believe she is right - prices may not be plunging, but developers are no longer developing - nor can they even think to command - the increased prices for the even smaller and poorly constructed housing they assign to these prices.

I have been walking the streets of Harlem (and know it from my youth anyway) for months now. Unless the building is full (rare, except for the Kalahari and a a few other, much much smaller 'boutique' developments ..... developers are coming down down down in their prices - or are in contract for months on end because there are (people are waking up) problems with the building's construction, finances, etc....... Worse, are the buildings that have been stopped from developing ( best example is Windows 129 - right next to Windows 123) because of crappy construction - which finally went before HPD review and was summarily forced to close down by a judge's decision ....all posted on the windows for the public to see (let's hear it for HPD/DCE!).

Again, kudos to Gold Development. I hope she doesn't wind up in the same place another famous - and 'of the neighborhood' female

Very nice quiet avenue - (daytime). But think about it........2 buildings 117 and 121 Edgecombe - with that beautifully manicured easily broken into wire fence between the two. The number would be 119 Edgecombe....and indeed, developer is planning to 'develop it' into the same beautiful boutique buildings she already has at 117 and 121. Doesn't know when. WHO WANTS TO LIVE AMIDST CONSTRUCTION DEBRIS FOR 2+YEARS - NEVER MIND THE NOISE. AIYAH! NO, LAH! I wonder where the buyers of the 5 sold apartments are from. 1 single sex couple, 1 couple, 1 single woman, 1 single guy sold and closed on 4 apartments thus far. Unit 6 just sold this month so is not on city records yet. (p.s. ACRIS is NYC/Gov..... can check out any/all developments, mortgages, etc.....anything that is PUBLIC information - which is everything these days.

This developer has done a great job in all her projects thus far; full and/or non-conflicting disclosure on 117 and 121 Edgecombe are really hard to come by on the deets of this development. Having said that, Goldman Development is a star in my book - she's paid her dues, worked her butt off and built two gorgeous buildings. Real estate 'ethics' or 'law' in Manhattan, however, doesn't help sales in any boutique building. People ALWAYS want to know who they're going to live with. In the burbs all you have to do is drive by and find what's a 'good feel' (regardless of race/color/creed, etc.) Here, they're not supposed to say anything about schools, diversity, etc. which is pure b.s. Apartment buildings - once in the hallways - all look the same - 'iffy' or changing neighborhoods are always a risk (play poker rather than buy an apartment).......if you have kids maybe you have to think twice - babymomas maybe not - teenage kids - ALWAYS. Important to know what your building is comprised of. If you're looking for diversity - and I mean age, race type (age stuff is a really big thing - particularly for single dads/moms w/teens) one should be able to be told at least yes or no. As for crime - tho' NYC crime is at an all-time historical low, we are now in an unidentifiable historical market......to 'invest' in housing is ridiculous - to 'invest' in a' home' so your safety/security nesting needs are met is what's important.

....and thank heaven for buyer sites like streeteasy, UrbanDigs.com, Zillow.com, CurbedNYC.com, etc. - as well as NYC/Gov.com/ACRIS.....so easy to be educated immediately. NYC brokers/firms - in tandem w/ no MLS - are, at price points under, say $1-1.5 million, obliged to work 24/7 to stay ahead of their clients (unless they are expats or 'never lived in the city' dwellers from anywhere outside the B&T arteries/tri-state area.

What a mouthful! So are either of the buildings occupied yet?

there's a beautiful park, with a huge swimming pool and a new bandshell, nice views