Unethical?

You are never protected till you get a signed lease, but still:

a) the agent should have explained that to you;

b) he/she should have explained to you that by going under asking price you're less protected (obviously if landlord/seller has a list price, it's in their head for a reason);

c) if you were told you had a handshake and showings were for backup only, that should have meant something.

Sorry you got shafted.

ali r.
"Ask the Agent" at CBS Moneywatch.com: bit.ly/12afCB

Thanks- i hate sounding like a victim, its just hard to tell my wife who is 7 months pregnant, that we have no place right now and that we have to be out of our current place in 3 weeks. Our other child is committed to school already so we have a finite area to search. We asked the broker repeatably for assurance and she continued to reassure us. She was very well aware of how severe our situation was yet non the less she sold us out.!!

This business needs a wake up call. So called reputable firms condone this. I am thinking of making this story public to highlight the abuses that take place and how people turn a cold shoulder to decent and well meaning people out of greed. Isn't that what killed wall street?

no wonder NO ONE trusts a broker. its very sad.

Ahh another case where it is proven that the renter has the upper hand.......

Is it too late for you to up your offer to match or beat the current offer or is it a done deal? We almost lost our first apartment in NYC due to a very similar situation. Many brokers, particularly rental brokers, are pretty clueless. We had to bash ours over the head to get a counter offer in when the owner wanted to give the apt to someone else. It's incredibly frustrating to deal with stupid, incompetent people. Hope it works out. In what area(s) are you looking?

front_porch could you please post your website address again? I didn't save it the last time.

Thanks!

Can somebody please educate me on this subject. Mingin212, did you have a signed contract? I thought the process went agree on price, both parties sign the contract, buyer completes the package, wait for board approval. A signed contract should give the buyer some legal rights, otherwise there would be no point in having a contract. If the buyer changes his mind after signing the contract the seller gets to keep his $.

you can also tell broker that you won't move forward unless they stop showing (no open houses, etc.). tell them you're committed and are going to be spending a lot of time and money getting everything done in a week or two, and that you're not willing to do that unless you are confident that you have a deal. exclusivity period is not uncommon in other contexts.

I was never afforded the chance to up my offer. that is what is the most disturbing and shows how greedy the broker is. I was 200 under the asking price. not like I low balled. Looking in Tribeca

Oh sorry Front_porch, I just noticed that you did post your web address. Thanks.

I didn't have a signed lease yet, this is a rental. I was told that it wasn't being shown to take competing offers but just as back up- the owners had accepted my offer and we were good to go. so i did spend a lot of time and money following through i even had bank checks made and ready. but more importantly, I didn't want to string a long my other deals so I let them go. So after telling this the broker then tells me that its her duty to take other offers to the owner. she could give a rats ass about the predicament that I am in now. "i feel so bad she said" This is all quite surreal.

The owners are these philanthropist, wealthy. They knew the deal as well. so for a few more bucks they kick my family aside to take more money. not a care in the world about their handshake with me

MeMe - this is a rental so the process is a bit different.

Thanks. I should work on my reading comprehesion. I guess the board package part made me think it was a purchase.

keerist this stinks. some 9 figure trust funder opted out for $2.4K add'l a year? effem. with the hope the new tenant runs a meth lab out of the unit.........can anyone in the biz raise a hand and help the mings so they can get situated pre ming baby arriving?

well if anyone knows of a great place in tribeca not listed on here or the NYtimes, 8.5k-10k/mo throw it my way

thanks for listening to my boring drama

Great idea romary. If there is a decent broker reading this please disprove the world view that brokers are crooks and help this family out.

"I was never afforded the chance to up my offer. that is what is the most disturbing and shows how greedy the broker is."

strange, b/c I would think that true greed would try to play the two parties against eachother and get more than asking price. It's very likely that you aren't getting the full story.

Or, as I said before, the broker may just be stupid, lazy, or careless. I have been absolutely stunned by the number of brokers who can't read, write, or think. I would absolutely complain to this person's supervisor. Not that it will get you anywhere, but their behavior is terribly unprofessional and inexcusable imo.

Good luck with your search. I don't know tribeca at all or I would take a look for you.

btw - as i mentioned, before, you can't always wait for the broker to ask for a counter. did you offer one when on the phone? can you offer one today? if it wasn't a done deal with you it may not be with the other people either. just a thought....

It's prob. not the broker who screwed you but the owner -- if you were at 15% brokerage fee, then the difference to the brokerage house is $360, and to the agent probably $200 after the split -- not enough money even for most sleazy agents to do the paperwork again. I say it was probably a bad landlord, and maybe if they're like that, it's good you didn't go further.

Our firm has a 3-BR in Chelsea for $3,900 -- it's a co-op sublet so I don't know if we can promise more than a year, but it would give you a place to park while you had the baby (elevator building) and I think we don't have an app. on it. Let me know if you want me to check.

ali [at] dgneary [dot] com

Hardly a boring drama, rather a most unfortunate tale. F 'em, exactly! In Spanish we say, "God will pay them." Start affirming that you will get a MUCH more wonderful place for LESS money. Good luck & let us know how it works out.

mingin212, this whole situation sounds strange, the normal route for a condo or coop rental would be to get signed leases FIRST, then submit the package and wait for approval, otherwise neither party has protection. The fact that the broker did not communicate this shows that perhaps they were stringing you along the whole time, which for 200 bucks a month is a little bizarre.

sorry you got screwed--my story is that i was a seller--i accepted the highest bid--on face the three bidders seemed credible--as i got into contract with the highest bidder, he proved to be extermely painful on many fronts--i was anxious to sell this place as it was 3/02, which turned out to be a nearterm high (market sagged 5-10% til early 2003--my dad warned me that dealing with this guy might result in a blown close at a bad time (summer) with my apt stripped of all furnishings and no longer a good show-good advice-i yanked the deal and sold to a really pleasant empty-nesting couple for 20g less--we closed without issues and they live there to this day--i hear they are great neighbors--i have retained and occasionally laugh at the letter i got from the painful hi bidder-he went nuts-felt so good after the hassle he provided over every detail of the apt and the contract--had i been dealing at first with a reasonable buyer, and had a higher bidder appeared, i would have stuck with my handshake--i hope your seller comes crawling back to you cuz the favored buyer cant get past the board--karma rules, though maybe not quickly enough for this

wopps--bad reading comp also--though you meant prop lease as in coop and board--good luck--
hope the renter cant get past the board--hope youve found a better place by then
hoping for a methlab too

Mingin: I know this is of little consolation to you. Have you considered Glenwood buildings? They have apartments in BPC North that are in PS89 zone. According to this site, there is a 3 BR avail in Tribeca Bridge Tower. It's a nice building (as all GW buildings are!) It's close to Whole Foods and the Park. Great environment for family.

I worked with someone really nice there - I would be happy to refer you to him. He gave me constant updates on new availabilities and showed me a lot of units, with no crazy sales pressure. I was in a similar situation last year where I could not have a baby in the apartment I was in, so I feel your frustration.

Good luck!

I live in a glenwood building in lincoln center. the management is great. very professional and responsive. however, they will not lower the rent for residents, only for the incoming newbies. i hear they will lower rents for existing residents in their east side buildings. all to say, if you like the glenwood buildings, be sure to negotiate. they are flexible right now. good luck.

Thanks so much for the out reach here, I didn't expect this!! its very kind. This just happened last night and since the broker is no longer calling me back, its time to think about our next move. Ill keep this discussion up to date

really thanks again!!!

M

most def keep us informed. similar to drdrd, and as my late I/C Mom would say "the mills of God grind slowly but they grind exceedingly fine..." payback which will occur at some time and will be a beeotch.

why don't you call fox 5 news "shame on you" or "help me howard."

Ooooo, I like THAT idea, a nice L-O-U-D EFF YOU !

mingin212, sorry you had to deal with that. I had a similar story or two a couple of years ago, same thing with 3 weeks & no place to go. To make a long story short, it all worked out in the end as we found a place as good, if not better (both were extremely good deals). Lots of stress, but it'll work out as that 3 weeks to move-in date actually works in your favor in terms of the landlord not having to leave the place empty another month.

The moral of the story is that nothing means squat until you have a signed lease (which you definitely should have before going for board approval; contingency for board approval is right in the lease, if you read it), and people are unethical and stupid. We knew this going into our situation, so we knew more quickly when we were being given the runaround, so we said screw you to the landlord and walked away. The strange thing is that he didn't have any backup tenants and ended up losing 2 months of rent to the place going empty, which was a great source of satisfaction.

Can you point out the listing? I'm sure some do-gooder would be more than happy to visit the place and place a higher offer that later gets pulled. I'd do it myself since I'm leaving for the weekend, but I bet a twisted soul (w67thstreet?) wouldn't mind taking care of business.

Thanks inonada- lol

Its 173 Duane Street

Mingin, here are some listings from SE, 3 bedrooms in Tribeca for $10k or less. Best of luck to you!

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rentals/tribeca-manhattan/no_fee:0%7Cprice:-10000%7Cbeds%3E=3

mingin212 - hope you find a place soon. Just curious, if you're willing to pay 10k/mos for a place, why are you trying to save yourself $200/mos? hardly seems worth the risk.

i wasn't saving 200- someone came in over the ask. my accepted offer was 9800. hope that clears it up

Oh, that's really nasty on the part of the landlords then. You're better off w/out them.

ali r.

drdrd thanks for the search, I know it by heart :)

Yeah, I remember seeing that one and thinking it was very well-priced, though a little low on light. I'm not surprised that someone came over the top. I wonder if there's a buyer in the picture. Owner has been trying to sell forever, and it just moved to a new broker.

yeah I agree it was priced fairly and I can see why someone came over the top. I get the game, it was just played with no class

found some stuff, but not happy about the places. 143 Reade great block, very eh place

trying to stay focused, just pisses me off when I think about it

Happy Sunday all

They did you a favor - "They meant this for evil against me, God means it for good". Repeat after me: "I am finding the PERFECT property at the right price which will fill all of my needs". Terrific! Good for you!! I'm so glad to hear it.

Interesting distinction between this an the Shawn Felker discussion. This person had his own problem in the market, and probably a bigger personal situation than nycsouth given the wife's pregnancy issue. Had already gone through approvals, bank checks, etc. and time is ticking. This was a full lease vs. a 3 month summer lease.

So this poster looking for advice, looking to let off a bit of steam, seek perspectives and perhaps advice on next steps for finding a place.

Compare that to nycsouth who needed to let the world know about the specific violator and besmirch that person's reputation publicly after having a private conversation about the matter. He or she is not seeking advice or help finding a nother place, just to complain and name one specific person as his or her "remedy".

And then, lo and behold, all of the broker haters and other nasties come to that person's rescue, not because the incident was egregious - I think this is worse and this situation has actual implications on someone's life - but because there was an opportunity to attack a specific person and really rub it in. And then they righteously say it isn't even about Shawn, it is about the whole brokerage industry and there's a wake up call. But those same posters aren't here.

Makes me wonder.

But what you really see is two camps - on the one hand, people looking to help, provide advice and learn. And on the other hand, those who expect the world to bow to them, and when it doesn't work out, to attack with abandon. More of the former, less of the latter would be helpful.

wtf you talkin bout
"shawn" blew off an appointment, didnt bother calling the poor person who assumed "shawn" would behave like a professional--and then lied about a "misunderstanding" a "7pm" closing and other garbage--one of the functions of blogs like this is to warn others not to waste time with such idiocy--i appreciate that nysouth has shared an experience such as this
you are pontificatively painful (invented word just for you, your windiness)

EPCC = friend of Shawn? Luckily Shawn wasn't caught buying sirloin & shrimp at the super!

and shawn might be lynched if he's discovered buying such high-class proteins at Whole Foods.

Mingin212

This looks pretty good...

http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1151501

Keith Burkhardt (Broker) keith at theburkhardtgroup dot com

If you like it, email me for strategies for saving on the brokerage commission or don't :) either way good luck!

worth reposting:

Interesting distinction between this an the Shawn Felker discussion. This person had his own problem in the market, and probably a bigger personal situation than nycsouth given the wife's pregnancy issue. Had already gone through approvals, bank checks, etc. and time is ticking. This was a full lease vs. a 3 month summer lease.

So this poster looking for advice, looking to let off a bit of steam, seek perspectives and perhaps advice on next steps for finding a place.

Compare that to nycsouth who needed to let the world know about the specific violator and besmirch that person's reputation publicly after having a private conversation about the matter. He or she is not seeking advice or help finding a nother place, just to complain and name one specific person as his or her "remedy".

And then, lo and behold, all of the broker haters and other nasties come to that person's rescue, not because the incident was egregious - I think this is worse and this situation has actual implications on someone's life - but because there was an opportunity to attack a specific person and really rub it in. And then they righteously say it isn't even about Shawn, it is about the whole brokerage industry and there's a wake up call. But those same posters aren't here.

Makes me wonder.

But what you really see is two camps - on the one hand, people looking to help, provide advice and learn. And on the other hand, those who expect the world to bow to them, and when it doesn't work out, to attack with abandon. More of the former, less of the latter would be helpful.

Uh, not worth reposting at all. Get a life.

I'll put you in the second camp.

I am sorry I didn't read the Shawn Felkin thread but just wanted to post a reply to mingin212: I am like your wife. There are millions of people in Manhattan, and this is a unique place.

"I'll put you in the second camp."

So you're defending the helpfulness of your copying your entire post and pasting it into a new post five spots later? I think you should put yourself in the second camp too. Then I'll swim across the lake to the other camp so as not to spend the summer with you.

That's for that thoughtful point of view.

Thanks

"But what you really see is two camps - on the one hand, people looking to help, provide advice and learn. And on the other hand, those who expect the world to bow to them, and when it doesn't work out, to attack with abandon. More of the former, less of the latter would be helpful."

I think you leave out that there is an overlap, with a group who comes here to learn, ask advice, etc., but at the same time are convinced that NO BROKER knows anything and can provide it.

I settled on Reade Srteet decent place great location!!! amazing landlord

Thanks everyone

I called the agents boss and gave them the story, lets see what happens

Congratulations to you, mingin212. Best of luck to you!

Exc. news Ming....

Why blame the broker? I am sure that you tried to get a lower rent, thus encouraging the owner to take other applications. You probably dragged your feet, admit needing an attorney to review your lease. BE DECISIVE. Happy renters are decisive renters.

This is a $120,000 annual lease, quarter of a million dollars for two years including the brokerage fee.

You get your attorney involved in reading a lease.

You negotiate.

and you run the risk of losing the apartment if you do. it is irritating that the first thing people want to do is blame someone else, anyone else, other than themselves for not getting what they want.

You run the risk of losing the apartment to someone who is careless and would enter into a quarter million dollar contract affecting every day of their lives (and family) for the next two years. So you risk losing to someone who is careless ... works for me.

Mingin: sorry to hear your story. Something very similar happened to us last spring but at the last minute (3 DAYS!!! before moving day) we found out that the owner never actually had the proper permission to rent the apartment.... they were trying to get approval the entire month we were working on the board package but got rejected. The broker KNEW all along that this was an issue because he happened to be a resident of the same building. I had to run around frantically and quickly found a no-fee rental. I have two young kids too & it completely freaked me out, but don't worry everything worked out for the better because then the market tanked and we'd have been overpaying by thousands anyway. The amount of unethical crap these people will do is unbelievable but I believe what comes around goes around. Btw, is this apartment the one on Duane? I remember you from my discussion on the renovation. GL!

Mingin: oh, I see it is the Duane St apartment! Enjoy the view (in your shower!!!) ;-)

i agree that there are bad real estate brokers out there....maybe even the majority, but the fact is, in the rental market in this town, if you are not quick enough, if you hesitate too long, apartments will get rented out to people who have their paperwork in order, know a good deal when they see it, and act on it. prospective renters need to have a sense of urgency, and most don't.

"i agree that there are bad real estate brokers out there" --- and its clear you're one of them.

"prospective renters need to have a sense of urgency" -- hilarious.

yes, the news is filled with renters who lost out on great deals ... last year. and sadly many of them signed two-year leases for the places where they paid too much.

all you renters out there had better hurry, or your landlord might not make as much money, and we wouldn't want that, would we?

nooooo, i am a good real estate broker. this thread started because someone lost an apartment because of foot dragging more than anything else.

what happened to this guy? he received a lease, decided to have it reviewed, made the landlord nervous, at which point they went to someone else.

he then decided to blame someone else for his lack of action

etiquette here requires real estate agents to identify themselves.

so...not signing a lease sight unseen without legal review is a requirement to get an apartment? tell us more, you jerk.

no, not a requirement at all. but there is a risk that the property owner may give the apartment to someone else. why is that the brokers fault?

just to make it simple for you:

"So I make an offer on an apartment- a little back and forth and the offer is accepted. I quickly complete a board package, review the lease, get the checks- I am told the entire time the place is mine pending a board approval and that any showing is being done purely as a back up. I am strong financially and will present well to the board, Job, community etc.

I pay a lawyer to review lease, rush it cause the agent wants to get this done

She calls me last night and tells me that the owners are taking a higher offer

I get it but I don't- not even an offer to match?"

where's the foot dragging?

a complete package to a board includes signed leases. not having signed leases means you have no "right" to that apartment, and the property owner decided to give the apartment to someone who, again, had everything in order, made a more attractive offer, and who acted decisively to get what they wanted.
the reason the agent "wanted to get this done" was because he/she recognized the positiion this client was putting himself.
if there is anyone other than the client to blame, maybe you can blame the landlord.
also, i see no mention of a deposit for the apartment. money on the table might have helped.

i guess i made too much sense for everyone

you must be REALLY pleasant to work with.

and shitti's marketing tag line: "the customer is always wrong."

azmino is a classic turd broker...posting stuff he doesn't have on craigslist and trying to lure naive NY'ers and recently relocated people.

i dont really ever get any complaints. im pretty gregarious. very accomodating. beyond that always on time, i have a professional demeanor and appearance, etc. but when it comes down to brass tacks its pretty simple: if you want the apartment, then act on it. if a client of mine hesitates, needs time to think about it, wants someone to review the lease, my answer is always the same; it's their perogative. but while they deliberate, someone else might very well take that apartment. i have never lost an apartment for someone due to my own lack of urgency. i have had plenty of people who, after that fact admit that they lost one due to their own lack of urgency.

have you ever had someone stiff you on your fee?
Hopefully so!

no one has ever stiffed me on my fee. they can't really, or i can take them to court for breach of contract. i work mostly with no fee clients. occasionally i will show fee properties if someone has extra demanding or hard to meet criteria (a whole townhome, brand new condo construction, etc) as most of these kinds of properties are not offered at no fee.

that is not pride, columbia, it is matter of factness. again, no one has ever lost an apartment because i couldnt get my shit together and get paperwork processed. ever. quite a few will lose apartments because of their own failure to act. i can't make them fill out applications, fill out forms, get the necessary documents. i prepare them beforehand, but that is as far as it can go.

What is the +/- 90% monthly rental range that you are working in?

because I think that the $2000-$4000 market for people 21-30 years old is very different from this original example of a family with an expectant mother, expecting to spend $250K over two years.

i don't post on craigslist, unless it is an open house for a landlord i am trying to help. i really don't need to, most of my business is referral based. usually, people post on craigslist because they havent had any success yet and need to try and get new business.

azmino76, you are in a different market than the one referenced in this thread to start with. So it seems you are industrious and doing your clients a good service. But it seems as if you don't know this $10K per month market and your advice isn't applicable to this original poster's situation.

renting an apartment is renting an apartment though. the obligations are the same no matter the size of the rent check. to me, its a pretty bottom line thing and i can't stress it enough: if you want an apartment, you absolutely must take positive action to secure it. and in this instance that required signed lease documents because of the condo/coop board factor. failing that, a deposit of some kind might have bought a couple of days grace, as most people don't want to walk away from $1000 or so unless they are really disatisfied in some way. i work across an entire spectrum. true, a 10,000 per month rental is rare and i certainly do more business in the 2k to 4k per month range (any broker except one who is extremely extablished in this market is going to go broke if they only rent those kinds of places).

keep it coming. you're making friends and influencing people.

p.s. so, a $1,000 deposit with no lease? how does that work? and, that's $1,000 against a total committment of $240K. and you get paid for doing what?

in my experience, a $1000 deposit, although insignifcant compared to the total lease amount, is not somethign someone would want to walk away from (prospective tennant) and is still enough to give a property owner pause against renting it to someone else. it shows in some other way beyond a handshake that the tennant is serious, just needs a bit of time to get everything together. it isn't binding, but it might have helped.
what industry do you work in? for the sake of curiosity.

columbiacounty is a hot dog vendor. Didn't he just say it on the other thread?

There's nothing unethical in the hot dog vending industry. Just ignore the rats and roaches and dirty water.

i knew it was something important like that. obviously less important then helping people find their homes in the most expensive, fast moving and dynamic re industry in the whole country.

Just a thought - in looking at the apartment photos (http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/554615-coop-173-duane-street-tribeca-new-york), the furniture and some fixtures look very unfriendly to children. Is it possible the owner decided he didn't want to risk children damaging the apartment and took another offer.

bump

azmino76 you have no idea what you are talking about!! if you read my post you would not be running off at the mouth and making yourself look like an fool. Notwithstanding standing, you call yourself a good agent and you are suggesting that in coop situation with a long rider that I shouldn't have it reviewed?? This is why this industry needs an over haul. You have a #2 pencil and a pulse and any moron can become an agent

I did just the opposite mind you, I spend an entire week completing my package turned the lease around in 8 hours and had the checks ready. didn't skip a beat. The scum of an agent lied to me and the scum of the owners cared only about their money. this is about lack of ethics and greed.

In order to pay that kind of Rent you have to make that kind of money. I am not a trust fund baby, so to earn that kind of money one must have half a brain. I happen to have a full one. I make 6 and 7 figure deals for a living. I understand the landscape of deal making, ethics, and MOST importantly being able to look in the mirror> don't give me your crackerjack box real estate agent analysis here- its rather pathetic. The only thing I did wrong was put my faith in a low life business and the people who run it.

By the way, do you know who are the LEAST trusted professionals? Look it up- Hint it aint used car salesman.

Get off my f-ing thread will ya

sorry folks this idiot just pushed my buttons

Bravo Ming

azmino76
7 days ago
ignore this person i agree that there are bad real estate brokers out there....maybe even the majority, but the fact is, in the rental market in this town, if you are not quick enough, if you hesitate too long, apartments will get rented out to people who have their paperwork in order, know a good deal when they see it, and act on it. prospective renters need to have a sense of urgency, and most don't.

Speaking of this, it is definitely a tactic I've seen that the landlords don't rent things much in advance, I suppose this does two things including fewer if any months unrented plus adding urgency to the rental equation on the renter's side probably bumping up monthly rental prices. My question is is this changing and if I'm looking for a place for October 1, when will the inventory become availab.e. I'm looking for good quality doormen buildings downtown that aren't filled with post frat boys.

Hey Gil

Scumbag landlord, and scumbag agent = my post

Nothing to to do with paperwork efficiency

Yes, thanks I understood that.

Maybe my question and independent observation is worth a new post string.