What if health care was like the post office?

> nyc10022, I re-read all your posts, and my conclusion is that (i) you think government is the
> problem (for unspecified reasons)

True, but not accurate on the unspecified reasons (unless you just mean that *you* are not specifying)

> and (ii) you don't want anything to change for those who already have good access to health care.

Untrue.

This thread on health care reform sounds fishy. I think I should report it to Rahm Emanuel. So be sure to thank Rhambo when you get a dead fish in the mail.

flag@whitehouse.gov

> Did NYC1002 ever own up to his lie that Clinton repealed Glass Steigel?

Perfitz, you're not only wrong, you forgot that YOU were wrong... and still haven't fessed up.

"Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999."

And when are you going to finally fess up about your calling it wrong on Manhattan RE? And your lake las vegas bonehead move.

"Yes, Clinton signed it, but this was a blunder that originated on the right and was approved by a centrist Democrat - there's enough blame to go all around."

bjw, I said this at least once on this thread, and probably 100 times overall. Yes, took lots of morons all the way around. And, I actually think more and more lately that it wasn't even the regulation (or lack thereof) that did it... we had plenty of controls on most of this, but nobody used 'em. All the oversight groups just didn't do any oversight.

nyc, agreed, though I wouldn't lift any of the blame from the repeal at all. As usual, petrfitz is proving to be a dunce.

"Pretending everyone that doesn't agree 100% with you is all the way on the other side is moronic and counterproductive." nyc10022, I love it. This sentence is a precise definition of your SE persona."

Sideline sitter, did you just channel pee wee herman. "I know you are but what am I?"

I'll take this as your acceptance that I was right...

> You have one of the most predictable styles on SE (as unique and recognizable as w67thstreet) - all
> negative, scorched earth, picking apart other people's posts, rude, hyperbolic.
> Do you even know how to make an argument FOR something, or is your dial just stuck at against?"

I love how if someone is for something other than what you want, they're not "for" anything.
lol

I also happen to have made some pretty detailed arguments for renting, for buying equity in the 6ks and 7ks dow, for selling pre-crash....

Just because you'

"If I have understood these "arguments" correctly, then I go back to my prior point that you are among those people who are: (i) selfish, and (ii) willfully blind to the reality that many governments have created health care systems with 100% coverage that CAN and DO work, even our own government has a very popular health care system known as Medicare."

and we have our fourth strawman! Woo-hoo!

You go punch down that argument you built up yourself! You look so strong beating it up!

> Who's come out and called themselves Democrats here? Not me (independent, the way God made me).

Oh, so now it requires self-identification? Funny.

I've gotten called a Republican by you, and probably 100x overall on this board, and I 'aint one... ironically, for supporting positions I don't actually support!

Democrats mislabel non-republicans as republicans more often than vice versa.... mainly because a Republican will likely just say "liberal" instead, which isn't a boolean.

> nyc, agreed, though I wouldn't lift any of the blame from the repeal at all.

I agreed on this 100% until an article I read by one of the Manhattan Institute guys in Money Magazine got me thinking some. It mattered, but I'm thinking a little less these days. Basically, guy outlined all the agencies that had buttons to press, were supposed to press them, and then simply didn't. Combining that with the Geithner plan, it began to resonate some.

"Oh, so now it requires self-identification? Funny.
I've gotten called a Republican by you, and probably 100x overall on this board, and I 'aint one... ironically, for supporting positions I don't actually support!"

nyc, I did make the important distinction of saying that you come off as a Republican. You've never identified yourself as such (and you apparently think you don't have to in order to be labeled as one). Let's just say you're very vocally anti-Democrat on this board, from what I've seen. Nothing inherently wrong with that, it's just an observation.

"I agreed on this 100% until an article I read by one of the Manhattan Institute guys in Money Magazine got me thinking some. It mattered, but I'm thinking a little less these days. Basically, guy outlined all the agencies that had buttons to press, were supposed to press them, and then simply didn't."

I'm inclined to believe some of that, but the Manhattan Institute is pretty blatantly pro-Republican (similar to AEI in its bent), so I'd take it with a grain of salt. The repeal paved the way for a lot of this mess.

> Let's just say you're very vocally anti-Democrat on this board, from what I've seen.

I'm anti-Republican, too. Difference is, not many hangin' out on these local boards. But I have no problem cutting down their nonsense, either when I'm on their turf. But we are in NYC, aren't we? (well, except for alpo).

I just find it funny that you can't have any debate with a democrat without being told I'm a republican.... because apparently democrats aren't allowed to disagree with one another.

"I'm inclined to believe some of that, but the Manhattan Institute is pretty blatantly pro-Republican (similar to AEI in its bent)"

Oh, absolutely, 100%, I know some folks from there.

> so I'd take it with a grain of salt.

But I only focused on the specifics, and then I cross checked it with all the Geithner plans in my mind.

There were several places to ring the bell, and no one rang it.

"I just find it funny that you can't have any debate with a democrat without being told I'm a republican.... because apparently democrats aren't allowed to disagree with one another."

I'll agree with that! Partisans aren't really about a fair fight, much to the detriment of the political "debates" in this country.

Do you have a link to the Manhattan Institute article?

I like how flexible the Post Office is in doing business. In hot places the mailmen ride around on bicycles or tricycles to deliver the mail. In rural areas they have wrong-side drive so the mailmen can access the mailboxes without leaving the driver's seat.

> Do you have a link to the Manhattan Institute article?

Its the print edition I get. I supposed you could just money mag it with "manhattan institute". Although now that I think of it, maybe it was another think tank. Dammit. I'll try and look for the print copy.... they generally wait to post them on the site until the month after.

"about 1 hour ago
ignore this person
report abuse I like how flexible the Post Office is in doing business. In hot places the mailmen ride around on bicycles or tricycles to deliver the mail. In rural areas they have wrong-side drive so the mailmen can access the mailboxes without leaving the driver's seat."

Yes, such flexibility, you can wear shorts, but you can't change work hours without a major court case.

"I'll agree with that! Partisans aren't really about a fair fight, much to the detriment of the political "debates" in this country."

And, unfortunately, I think Obama got this one wrong. I like a lot of what he does, but I don't love the rhetoric that he starts. I don't think it comes from a bad place, but he gives a LOT of ammo with his speeches. I guess he has to, but I don't like it. I thought he might have been the guy who could go beyond politics.

It would be cool if he did like Kevin Kline in the movie "Dave" with the budget. If he did that, I'd wear an Obama t-shirt every day.

"you can't change work hours without a major court case."

Good for them! I like to think that they can spend time with their families in the evenings and on weekends.

or sleeping in my vestibule.

Get more exciting mail and he'll stay awake

They put the porn in brown paper bags.

Those are school lunches. Porn is blue.

"I meant for medically justifiable treatment, the expensive route is usually taken. Hospitals buy the latest models when the last one works fine, doctors do way too much testing, patients will opt for the latest high-tech treatments - it happens at all levels."

btw, this is the biggest factor supporting HSA. The logic and at least a couple studies have shown...
as long as low-deductible policies, such as HMOs, pick up the cost of routine care, there is little incentive to shed more light on prices.

If customers have an incentive to factor in what's necessary vs. not, and have a stake in costs, you at least have some action countering prices.

We have the opposite, and have only seen prices rise. And the Obama plan doesn't address this, and I believe makes it worse.

yes, that is the argument in favor of HSA's. the problem is that right now it is very difficult to get transparent pricing from doctors and hospitals - they either give you the run-around, or look down their noses. i wish the market would take care of that, but it hasn't happened. i would love to see as part of the healthcare bill that providers are required to have readily accessible pricing. that, combined with some of the work the Cuomo has put in to getting a database of pricing, would accelerate the move towards consumer-driven health care.

The US Post Office handled $75 billion in transactions last year, delivered 203 billion pieces of mail, an average of 7700 pieces of mail per second, a total of 46% of the world's volume of mail. 14% of Americans, a total of 46 million, move every year and their mail follows them to any address in the United States, including the 1.2 million new delivery points added annually. The USPS manages an employee workforce of 650,000 employees in over 32,000 locations. A United States Postal Service Money Order is considered a good obligation of the US worldwide.

You can send two separate pieces of first class mail from here to Alaska for $1 and still have 12c left over.

When was the last time your DVD from Netflix didn't show up in your mailbox the next day? When was the last time that the postal equipment destroyed the oddly-shaped envelope?

This is why we have a great country. NYC10022, I'm embarassed for you. I've never heard of someone who could complain so much about something that works so well.

"But can't tell you how many times I've had things returned for beinng over 16 ounces, not allowed in mailbox."
"Well, I don't WANT to wait on line, but sometimes you have to pick up a package. So you HAVE to go pick it up."
"I happened to be a frequent PO user a few years back, so I've probably spent more time in POs than most."

Were you a drug courier or just selling your Star Wars toy collection on eBay?

No one likes a whiner.

"yes, that is the argument in favor of HSA's. the problem is that right now it is very difficult to get transparent pricing from doctors and hospitals - they either give you the run-around, or look down their noses. i wish the market would take care of that, but it hasn't happened. i would love to see as part of the healthcare bill that providers are required to have readily accessible pricing. that, combined with some of the work the Cuomo has put in to getting a database of pricing, would accelerate the move towards consumer-driven health care."

The more HSAs we had, the more of that we would have. WHen noone gets the bill, they don't pay attention to price. If folks were invested, there would be a LOT more asking and a LOT more services and options to figure out pricing.

"When was the last time your DVD from Netflix didn't show up in your mailbox the next day? When was the last time that the postal equipment destroyed the oddly-shaped envelope?"

Last week, actually. No joke.

BTW, the post office actually sued/went after Netflix to reshape their envelopes, because they were breaking the sorters.

> Were you a drug courier or just selling your Star Wars toy collection on eBay?

A little of each

> No one likes a whiner.

Yes, better to pretend its all good and not fix anything. Awesome!

Isn't that last part basically your health care position? Btw the saving Europe from Hitler thing you dropped ages ago in this thread was pretty lame.

i am amazed by how quick my netflix turnaround is...all my ny mail gets there next day all the time--i think the usps is one of the best values out there and serves to lube our economy very well--and it seems that netflix and the usps have a fine relationship--i havent heard of netflix switching to fedex or ups

let's talk about something more credible....like death panels

> Isn't that last part basically your health care position?

Nope, you haven't been reading very well.

> Btw the saving Europe from Hitler thing you dropped ages ago in this thread was pretty lame.

I didn't drop it, another poster brought up the topic.

What else you got?

Someone else brought up Europe and their systems of health care. Does that in your view make our role in ww 2 relevant? Private health insurance has not proven to be a viable solution here. Self regulation by the financial industry also a failure. On health care the private solution that the free markets devised has proven untenable. There is no other way besides involvig the govt. Even if it were the govt pushing a different private solution.