Wanna catch a big fish?

Really? Considering 17A, I'm not sure how you can call this such a phenomenal bargain?

David Lynch wrote a book called Catching the Big Fish on transcendental meditation. I had this image in my head that this thread was going to be about meditating your way into a sale. Instead, it is about Yorkville. :)

I like your 'brave sole' pun. Very witty.

falco, it's a great place (all 3 bedrooms are large and have their own bath - that's a huge boost to value) - I'd maybe knock down the dining room wall to make a larger living room, or at least have it a bit more open, but given your statement that this needs a gut reno, that sounds like the tip of the iceberg (hard to tell with no real photos). Not sure I see this as such a bargain though, especially when you factor in all those reno costs. Yes, you've got waterfront views, proximity to a great park, and a huge place, but there are always people who will steer clear of EEA because of distance to trains (though being on 86th already is a help). And you're still looking at $1k/sqft, plus having to put 50% down.

The Henderson House coop board is not the easiest. Did the broker tell you what the general guidelines are? I believe not only is it 50% down, but they like to see tons of assets, very very liquid assets too as even stocks and bonds are considered semi-liquid to them, and very good salary. I think the buyer pool that is qualified to buy here is similar to that of a Park Ave or west building.

yorkville isn't transcendental?

falco, your view is warped because you've been limiting yourself to apartments with private outdoor space. eliminate that requirement and your world will open up exponentially. if i were 30yrs, i'd drag you to a number of units that don't meet your requirements just to see your reaction.

UD, Yorkville is strange, no? some highly exclusive buildings, others not so much.

This building sounds a lot like Stewart House downtown, but with some larger units. That was also built as a coop (very unusual for that time), and used to require all cash. Now allows 60% financing, BUT,supposedly the board want to see liquid assets equaling whatever mortgage is applied for. (In other words, you don't really NEED a mortgage, just want the tax deduction).

Also similar, seems as if there will be a number of estate units in this building (especially the larger ones) coming on the market, set at unrealistically high prices by the heirs (for some reason, free money like an inheritance makes people unreasonably greedy)

Agree with 30yrs - look at 17A - larger, with a 4th bath and maid's room, couldn't get asking.

luvya falco, but i don't see this as a particular steal

yep...mostly I would say bldgs dont have stricter guidelines like henderson house, just normal coop guidelines

there's one on eea also that has really restrictive rules, that i know of.

I thought it was gonna be an Ahi, alas just a small flounder.

Looks to me we are gonna see whose wearing swimming trunks in this and all the hard assed coops in NYC. Not looking forward to seeing all these naked board members. Bunch of losers IMHO. The board members that is, who the f spends days on a board for 'fun'?????! Bunch of ass kicked losers in high school that get jollies from lording over 'the process'.

The far East end isn't what it used to be: it used to be close to what some sections of Park (value wise) but over time has fallen out of favor. Perhaps because even rich people want to be closer to public transportation these days? I don't know.

I MIGHT move to 86th & East End if they knocked off another $1MM....

Yeah, some of the buildings on EEA & Sutton Place were definitely equals to Park Ave. It just feel so far.

nyc10023 - But isn't Riverside Drive kind of far?

It IS far.
EEA is 5 blocks from Lex. RSD is 2 blocks from Brdwy.
This makes EEA, what, 8 blocks from the park?
It's far.

and this is one of the many reasons why UWS is far superior to UES ;)

uwsmom, eea has a lovely park. it is far, and i wouldn't do it now, but i considered it in the past. i almost bought in a couple of buildings on eea, the deals in 2000 there were very good, some very nice views. the 79th street crosstown bus ends at 80th and eea, the walk to the subway is a little more than 15 minutes, and the york ave/57th crosstown bus is available as well.

it's not ideal, and the food situation was awful for years but now seems to be improving, but it is very much a family neighborhood, and very peaceful.

Of all the stupid big ideas Boston Bloomberg has put forth (e.g. build schools on Governor's Island, and a monorail over the water to get to them), there's one that makes total sense: turning some of the busiest crosstown buses into fare-free lines, thus cutting lots of time off the boarding. The assumption is that little revenue would be lost, because people use transfers/unlimiteds anyway. If implemented on the M79 & M86, it would take a lot of the pain out of living way over there.

AR - just being cheeky about east vs west. Though, I think I've been to the "park". if it's the one i'm thinking of, isn't it more cement than green? maybe I didn't go to the right one, but the one i saw could never replace riverside park and the distance to central park would make it a little depressing for me. I can handle a crying baby for 2-3 blocks, but 8..yikes!!!

I think it took us 20-25 mins to walk EEA to Central Park...though we were likely dealing with child so one might be able to do it a bit faster. still, that's a lot of walking time just to and from...
I'm just a little spoiled, i suppose.

to ah: ah, you just answered a long simmering question. a number of times that i took either of those crosstown buses, the driver just waved everyone through; i guess they were experimenting. (me, being me, always asked why and rec'd a grunt to the effect of move on, stupid) makes a whole lot more sense than turning broadway into an outdoor cafe.

Ph41: depends on where you are on RSD. Some of the blocks esp. 70s are very, very short bet. RSD & Bway.

uwsmom, you're not spoiled - when you spend that kind of money, you'd expect to be closer to the trains. I know the bus is there, but unless the mayor's idea really makes an impact, that's a dealbreaker for me as well.

AH: That's a cool idea, and I would also advocate the no-fare strategy for M14 as well.

Not having kids around now I always forget how much of this UWS vs UES discussion revolves around the little ones. As they grow, it revolves more around the private schools (rather than the park), of which there are many very prestigious ones on the UES (right, AR?).

Often left out of this discussion are other aspects of life, and finances.

Remember Trinityparent, who just sold her dream "classic" on the UWS, because she wanted to see more life?

Actually, I think she said she was bored there, and now that her kids were grown, she felt free to move.

M14A/D has the added complication of its up/down route on the eastside, but reconfigurable for this purpose? I think midtown lines like M50 are the primary targets.

My partner is determined to stay on the UWS, private school commute or not. I could see (if it were completely up to me) moving to be closer to (private school) but since I am the one doing the schlepping, it doesn't impact him as much.

Yeah, I forgot about the many M14 routes. I usually jump on M14 at Union Square with groceries from the Greenmarket or from 1st (on a culinary trip) to 7th Ave. From 7th Ave, it's less than 15 mins door-door back home. The pure cross-town M14 could run so much faster without the taking of fares. And w/o access for wheelchairs (there, I said it).

And I've thought it, many many times. But actually the front-ramp buses are pretty quick for wheelchairs, assuming they don't have to evict four frail nonagenarian ladies from the front seats.

NYC 10023 - Now I'm really confused - I always that Fairway and Zabar's were one of the really BIG UWS draws.

Sorry - typed too fast - always thought that Fairway and Zabar's were one of the really BIG UWS draws.

have you ever been north of 42nd?

CC - sorry, I really don't know what your problem is. Just wondering why someone has to go all the way down to Union Square for fresh produce when there are supposed to be really good places on the UWS.

maybe they want to?

Many people prefer the locally-grown, truly fresh aspect of the farmers markets ... plus seedlings in the spring ... plus people-watching.

ph41, life is full of compromises. i'm fully a downtown sort of gal, but i'd get a lot more for the money elsewhere if i elected to buy. i actually think the food is now better UES than UWS, but i have no desire to bash either one. this is a city of many neighborhoods. so many people see so little, regardless of whether or not they have children. but yes, obviously one of the reasons, as well as value, that i looked all over the UES was that our child goes to an UES private school.

no, uwsmom, the park is stunning. carl schurz, gracie mansion, the promenade. and then a bit south you have john jay with its pool. i did generally prefer the parents in the RSD playgrounds, however.

ah, would be lovely. i had five wheelchair on and offs during one trip a few months ago. tried even my liberal tendencies. but that was stunningly unusual.

AH - absolutely - but there are many farmers' markets around the city - bus and train to get to one particular pretty far from home just seems like a lot of work (then again, I'm probably too lazy to go to that extreme).

But then again,CC, I forgot that where you live you can go to farm stands, by car, any time you want. The advantages of not living in NYC.

I don't have to, but it's nice to leave the neighborhood when I have babysitting & school all day. Also, my doctors and favorite ramen place are down there. Kinda hard (for me) to avoid grocery shopping when I happen to be down there.

Source of nyc10023's groceries:
1) chicken/fish/meats exclusively from Citarella (had bad experience at Fway)
2) most other stuff from Fway on 74th
3) in the summer & early fall months, I buy produce from the 2 greenmarkets on the UWS
4) when I have to visit doctors/have a ramen craving/buy tiles, I hit the Union Square Greenmarket
5) when I have brunch at Nice Matin on Sundays, I go to Zabar's on the way home for cheese, deli meats.
6) once every 2 months, I do a big shop at Fway uptown if I'm in a big shop mood.

keeps one from getting bored? i used to drag the child to playgrounds all over the city. something to do, opportunity to chat, new people to meet. things to see. restaurants to discover during the journey.

Besides ramen, I am also a katsu addict and there are all those J places on St. Mark's. And because of my somewhat piece-meal renovation, I've gone to Bella Tile on 1st about 6 times in the last 12 months.

Ph41: we lead very different lives. I have gone to the extent of shopping in Sunset Park (that would be Brooklyn) for groceries. The large Asian supermarket there is closer to the subway stop than equivalent stores in Manhattan's Chinatown. Also gives me an excuse (not that I need one) to sample the pho out there.

N10023 - My hat is off to you - I am a lazy slug.

AR - That also makes sense.

Just better watch out, the UWS contingent will say you had to do that because you lived too far from the park (then again,maybe they won't - you're one of the SE cool kids).

stop already. too much.

Ph41: why are you so touchy about neighborhoods & so quick to jump upon my (pathological) need to grocery shop & eat everywhere? No 'hood is perfect, market does what it does w.r.t pricing due to the collective perception of each neighborhood (nothing you or I can do about that). The best thing about NYC is that for the most part, I can go everywhere by public transportation, driving is not as difficult here as it could be (thanks to Zipcar), and the distances are relatively navigable.

NYC10023 - forgive me for just asking questions on what I thought was a discussion board.

I will echo CC here (hard to believe) stop already. too much.

Most of my acquaintances and friends already think I'm crazy because I like schlepping to get fresh produce & meat every couple of days instead of ordering from FreshDirect already.

ph41, i've always had local access to great parks. hell, we've got 7 or so playgrounds, tennis courts, the oval, basketball courts, chess tables, a greenmarket, a ton of green space for frisbee, picnics, etc. on-site right here.

i like to roam.

ph41---i've tried to tell you nicely, you're not getting it. too much is all about you and you alone. you're overstepping the boundaries.

CC - stop already , too much - this seems to all be about YOU. I really don't know what your problem is.

cut the crap...this isn't about me. my problem is with you; you don't get the vibe yet you are convinced that you do. so be it. others here are more forgiving; and some are far more direct.

right CC - I don't get the insulting vibe. That seems to be your specialty.

that's because you're the one who's insulting. and yes, i get it, that you don't understand. it feels like you're trying way too hard.

forget the kids... the park is for ME.... I love the swings near CPS... you can get some serious air....

Now back to catching fish... where is a good spot to throw a line for my son.. the requirements being... don't need to run across East side drive or HH and not too many homeless people, I wouldn't have the heart to tell them the fish are inedible as i toss them back in.... w/ all this water around us, you'd think there'd be quick spot to fish....

Used to see people fishing from the promenade in Riverside Park, north of 72nd. Don't know whether they caught anything.

10023 - i too love the regular every other day schlepps to Fairway. I just can't stop it. I just can't plan ahead and I just can't stand sitting around the house for a 3 hour window for delivery. i'm probably going to have to scale back and get more efficient with the double stroller :0

do you like Nice Matin? maybe I've had bad luck there. starting to really like Good Enough to Eat although hubby still doesn't get all the fuss.

sorry to hijack falco.

"where is a good spot to throw a line for my son.."

W67th, if you love someone, let him go. If he swims away ...

I wasn't one of those gotta have kids, and in fact sorta begrudgingly did 'it', but can't imagine a world wo the kids now. Especially the little one, cause he's still just a baby. I know don't pick favorites. :)

ah. The problem with that statement is that there are fish who play games and sometimes tugs on the line and sometimes let it go slack. :)

Uwsmom: I never went to Fway with a double stroller & 2 kids. Madness. Especially since I get most of my stuff upstairs. Shop early in the a.m. on weekends or late at night on weekdays. Nice Matin isn't the be-all and and-all but fulfill some important criteria for us: open at 7am; has booths; makes an okay Eggs Benedict; great cup of coffee; has decent granola (kids love this).

Just a little bit more...
There is no outdoor space.
This is really view and location. Killer views in a picky building and a property in desperate shape. It's sitting out there waiting for that rare person who is willing. The price will be highly neg. b/c of all of the above stated reasons. The buyer who meets the buildings stiff critera might really beat the day lights out of that ask. You really have to see these views.

falcogold1 sorry to have missed you at the se event -- also, next time w67 will you join us?

Maybe an A-line with a balcony will come on the market, falco. Never figured you for an EEA type.

I like it quiet and off ave., like the views most that face away from the city with water. My childhood home (riverside) had open water views and you just get used to looking at water. It looks different every day, sometimes every time you look. I love the city views but, give me a little open space to look at with trees and water... now, reduce the noise level to a wisper and the stress of busy city days melt away. I have many a friend that watch the clock intently awaiting that moment on friday when they can flee the city for their weekend reteat. Packing into the car and coughing up the focused attention necessary to safely get your loved ones to that special place where you can assume your alter weekend ego of building super, gardner, cruise director or whatever. I'm not putting it down, it's repetitive nature does not match me. For me that's too much work to relax. I dig the city but I like quiet. I love skysrapers but, want to look at trees and water. What can I say...a riddle wraped in a mystery stuffed in a donut.

"The price will be highly neg. b/c of all of the above stated reasons."

So you are *assuming* it will be a bargain because it will go *substantially* below the current asking price?

BTW one thing I have noticed over the years: people buy problem properties because of the great discount they get because they are problem properties. And then when they go to sell them, they forget all the reasons they gave the seller about the property's problems and price it as if all of a sudden it no longer has the problems that they got the discount for. So, when someone buys this bargain and renovates it, will all of a sudden the building become ans easy building to get into, the market will vastly expand, and thus it will go for much more money? falco, I respect your posts, but I think you missed the boat on this one because renovation will only solve one of MANY issues involved in transacting this unit. In addition, I'd be willing to bet that in this Coop, the renovation will cost substantially more money due to them being PITA's. In the end you may end up with a "bargain" relative to what other apartments would have cost you, but I'm not so sure it will be a "bargain" in terms of being able to turn it around at a greatly increased price. You get to buy it as a "bargain" and you will have to sell it as a bargain too.

> will all of a sudden the building become ans easy building to get into, the market will vastly expand, and
> thus it will go for much more money?

Well, if its 2030 and they actually finish the second ave subway, yes actually.

That being said, problem apartments do worst in bad markets, but close the gap in good markets.

very fair assesment.
Keep in mind that this was never in my sights and I have the belief that this property could be exchanged for considerably less than ask.