Negotiating rent

hurting

There is an advantage to using a broker especially now where many brokers can show you "NO FEE units!

The owners are paying many broker fees these days, so yes the upside it costs you nothing and you get an educated opinion!

As far as negotiating, brokers are better at what they do best, negotiating deals!

Fayek is a broker.

nybits.com.

In my experience you loose your negotiating power if you have a broker. The landlord has to pay the broker these days, and is not willing to do any deals. (Which I understand: he just paid somebody to bring a renter, why now giving money to the renter to convince him to move in?

stevejhx

Yes Faye is a Broker!

And Brokers are good at negotiating especially when the unit is a NO FEE rental!

You can either get the broker paid by the owner, or you can get a 1 month free with no broker. Does it cost you anything to have a broker? yes, 1 month free.

You mean there's no free lunch?

As an owner who lists my apartments (4-5 story walkups Houston-96th Street) myself on Craigslist StreetEasy and NYbits, I expect competent people are able to find me on their own, and it is better for myself and my tenants for us to find each other directly.

I MUCH rather deal/negotiate, not to mention start a tenant relationship with someone directly, rather than with a 3rd party who is out for their own interests.

Whenever a 3rd party is introduced, there is another mouth to feed. Many people do not realize this is also major advantage of owners who manage their own buildings.

Any sense as to which of these three sites is the best for "real" no-fee rentals, MAV?

I am a broker and here are the advantages of using and not using a GOOD broker. There are certain management companies (Pan Am and others) who only rent their apartments through brokers, a good broker who spends lots of time in an area will often know of apartmetns that have not yet hit the market (under construction) that maybe of good value , 301 East 38'th comes to mind-decent doorman one bedroom for $2000. You will not have access to most condo's and co-ops where the inadividual owner is using a broker to represent his property. A good broker will also let you know that even in condos there may be no fee apartments (The Corithian) because the sponsor is paying the broker fee. In addition, landlords will occasionally throw out very short term aggresive incentives if they have high vacancy- a good broker will direct you to those deals. If you choose to do it on your own you can expect to spend 3 to 5 days searching and viewing -with a really good broker 3 to 5 hours. In addition, what the landlord above does not mention is the fact that every management company has different requirenments-does the landlord take multiple applications? If so you could be told by the landlord that the apartment is availible only to find out that you are third in line, does the mangement company require the tenant to have a years rent in the bank? (ie Manhattan Skyline) The short answer is that if you go on your own you will take much more time to see much less property-is it possible to save the month's fee that the landlord is paying the broker, absolutely? But it is just as likely that you will be making that decision on limited information.

What a crock of shit. Anyone who uses a broker to find an apt to rent is a complete moron - you're throwing away a month of free rent and you have someone negotiating for you whose only interest is to get a deal done rather than get you the lowest rent.

Topper -if there is no address in the ad-don't respond.

I am currently working on NO FEE plus two FREE months on a one year lease and FIVE FREE months on 2 yr lease in Downtown Brooklyn......yes these are unprecedented times!

"Any sense as to which of these three sites is the best for "real" no-fee rentals, MAV?"

I would say that SE is the best, as you can not only clearly search for "NO FEE", but SE will also remove fake/bait-n-switch ads. At least that is what they have told me.
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"In addition, what the landlord above does not mention is the fact that every management company has different requirenments-does the landlord take multiple applications? If so you could be told by the landlord that the apartment is availible only to find out that you are third in line,"

Funny how you think this way, as I think I would know much better if an applicant has been accepted yet than a broker, or more likely a chain of brokers would. I have brokers call me all the time with a client interested in something which has already been rented. With a broker who doesn't know, you will waste your time seeing it and filling out an application when I have already had a lease signing and have taken it off of the market.
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"The short answer is that if you go on your own you will take much more time to see much less property-is it possible to save the month's fee that the landlord is paying the broker, absolutely?"

That may be how you see it (or want people to think), but don't forget about all of that time brokers waste showing people apartments which are not what they have asked to see. Also, contrary to what you want the world to believe, not all landlords are paying broker fees. Some of us still rent out our own apartments at no fee to anyone.... btw, spell check much?

fayek, i'm sure if an individual found the place on their own, they would get no fee, plus 3 free months on a 1yr lease, and 6 free months on a 2yr lease.

streakeasy

you are wrong on this particular developement! The FREE rent is the same wether you go it alone or with a broker! The owner pays the FEE on these units!

Thanks, MAV.

If a landlord pays the fee, do they typically get a lower fee than if the individual pays the fee?

Interesting. I did a search in my neighborhood. 75% were fee and 25% were no-fee. So going the no-fee route does reduce my universe considerably.

I'm guessing a lot of the no-fee apartments have the fee paid by the landlord. In that case, he will presumably increase his effective price to offset the cost.

Seems to me the key is to find no-fee apartments were you're dealing directly with the landlord. That probably requires a bit more leg work - like where Steve just walked into an apartment building and asked if they had rentals - but it could be well worth it.

Brokers usually get less of a fee from owners b/c of the volume (renting more than 1 apartment) they provide, and b/c there are always brokers who will do it for less....

Owners usually pay a month fee to brokers when used, not 15% or whatever crazy number it is this year

You know your stuff, MAV. Thanks!

Why would anyone pay a two-month fee for a two-year lease? Is there any possibility a theoretical new one-year lease done in a year would rise 8% and thus make the fee worth it to the lessor? Plus the impact of the lack of flexibility a two-year lease gets you into?

Hey Mav-what should Hunter do if he wants to rent a Pan Am at , Jennifer Towers (they have hundreds of apartments) flex 2 for $2400? What should Hunter do if he wants to rent in a condo or co-op? How is Hunter going to know which apartments are the best values right now and why? How is Hunter going to know which lines in which buildings face which way, which apartments are noisy, which supers are creepy and corrupt, which management companies are negotiating rent and how much? I don't know what types of brokers you are dealing with-but do you really think that I would waste my time bringing people to apartments that don't fit their needs? Every ad I have ever run has the address and actual pictures. I have seen thousands of apartments and gotten hundreds and hundreds of client’s apartments in a couple of hours. (I am actually currently working on a website listing reviews, addresses , price ranges of EVERY rental building in Murray Hill/Kips Bay for FREE).Do you really think that New York landlords have the tenant’s interest foremost in their minds? What about clients whose firms are paying the fees? Do you really think that Rivergate is going to tell every person who calls that they need a years rent in the bank to qualify? As far as being an idiot for using a broker-go ahead, spend 3 or 4 hours a day on the internet chasing down bullshit ads, run up to 58’th get keys and run down town to try and get in when they don’t work, show up for Abington Open Houses only to be told they did not update their website. There is time and then there is money-the vast majority of working professionals recognize that their 3 or 5 days of running around trying to save (maybe) a free month is a fool’s errand, and have long ago formulated a professional working relationship with an honest, knowledgeable broker. Yes if your time is so worth much-knock yourself out, but if you value it-find a great broker and stick with them.

didn't use a broker and found a great space. not sure what a broker would have added to my search.

skip broker -- keep free rent for yourself -- neg 1 - 3 moths -- enjoy!

reprinted -

AVOID BROKERS AND THEIR FEES - GO DIRECTLY TO THE SOURCE OF YOUR RENTAL NEEDS. BROKERS TEND TO TAKE YOU TO SEE THESE NO-FEE APARTMENTS FIRST AS THEY EARN 100% OF YOUR 15% BROKER'S FEE. HUSH...HUSH... THEY WILL NOT TELL YOU IT'S A NO-FEE RENTAL PROPERTY :( NOR WILL THEY REPRESENT THAT PRIOR TO SEEING THE APARTMENT. SO IF YOU NEED TO RENT, CHECK OUT THE RENTAL PROPERTY MANAGEMENT WEBSITES AND CALL THEM FOR UPDATED LISTINGS. SAVE YOURSELF THAT 15% TO BUY YOURSELF NEW FURNITURE OR HAVE A MOVE-IN WELCOME PARTY FOR FRIENDS AND FAMILY. PLUS FREE RENT IS NOW COMMON -- 1 - 2 months!!!

Excellent “BIG-TIME” Manhattan Rental Property Management:

Rose (www rosenyc com)
Related Rentals (www relatedrentals com)
Equity Residental (www eqr com)
Rockrose Management (www rockrosenyc com) [mostly chelsea, village, financial district, downtown condos]
Sky Management (www skymanagement com)
Glenwood Managment (www glenwoodnyc com)
BLDG Management Co. 115 E 92nd St New York, NY 10128 (212) 722-4931
Brodsky Management, Inc (www brodskyorg com)
Maclowe Management (www macklowe com) [condos below 60th street]
Urban Associates – 400 W 59th St # 3, New York, NY (212) 245-1870

Just to respond to some of the pro Broker people here... This is my first time searching for an apartment in Manhattan. Since my company is covering some of the Broker costs, I decided to reach out to two brokers, along with doing my own searches. I've been pretty detailed in what I'm looking for and the price I want to spend (letting them know that I understand one can't get everything... but, at least one can ask).

So far, I haven't been impressed with the Broker experience. Instead of sticking my preferred prices and areas, I keep receiving e-mails about places that are above what I want to spend, or outside of the area I want to live, or, are the same properties that I found searching StreetEasy. (to be fair, one of the Brokers seems to be learning with feedback, so that, I guess is good.) Hopefully, my expereince and view will change... but, so far this has been my experience with two Brokers (both that have been in the business for a long time).

Another quick gripe. Even if the Broker manages to do everything for you... 15% of yearly rent is crazy! Even at 8% or less.... I mean, come on. That's like 2 weeks or more of salary (before tax) for many people. Do Brokers really perform that worthwhile of a service to justify getting $2,000 - $8,000 out of each client, just for performing a search? I guess, if one has the money, great. But for us that care about our pennies, there really needs to be a better way, or a more "fair" process for both the Broker and Renter.

Bigapple: Thankfully for you, the world, and Manhattan will always be full of people who need your services, or who get them paid for by employers. Congrats, you have yourself a sub-market. For most people that 15% is a major chunk of their income, and something that is not budgeted in. Most people will see what management companies are negotiable by trying to negotiate with them after they have seen an apartment they like.

I don't deal with any brokers, but that does not stop them from cold calling me with the same old tricks I have been hearing for years, and I hear (horror) stories of renters who started their searches with brokers, just to be lead all around the city wasting their time. You seam to have your niche cut out of people who can easily dispose of thousands of dollars, but you are foolish if you think that is how most people operate.

btw, I have had several people who's firms have been willing to pay a fee rent from me. My new tenants really appreciated taking half of that $, as did I

I wish you luck, there is room for all kinds in this city....

oh, and you find out which way an apartment is facing by reading an ad and if it does not say, there is usualy an email link or phone number to ask questions.

and all supers are corrupt.

How about using the good old NY times? I have done searches on streeteasy, where the searches did not bring up all available apts according to the search.

I also think that we have to remember that some owners of rental properties use brokers since they are out of town and can not show properties. I am one myself.

Hey Mav -we should go out and have a cold beer someday. Luckily, we live in the greatest city in the world and there will always be people looking to save time by using professionals to do the thing that they don't have the time and expertise to do. (Dog walkers anybody?)

Keeps you working BA2.

The unfortuante truth is that there is no one online source of all available rentals in Manhattan. The information is mostly outdated,partial, not accurate and static. Until every single owner in Manhattan has live updates daily with all pictures, floorplans, deals, prices and application processes-you have two choices. 1. Do some research online, put on a comfortable pair of shoes and pound the pavement until you find what you want or 2. Find abroker who specializes in the area you want to live in and use their services with the landlord paying the fee often.

PS You should read the book FREE-is google really free?

Bigapple

My thoughts exactly!

bigapple: the problem with that is that finding a broker that won't waste your time (e.g. making you pound the pavement along to pick up keys to apartments that don't satisfy the minimum requirements that you stated clearly) is often harder than doing what you describe in 1.

adding to the list that manhattanfox posted:

www tfcornerstone com (used to be part of rockrose)

Beam-I completely agree. I would recommend the following to weed out the lousy brokers.

1. Only respond to ads with addresses.
2. Ask them what area they specialize in?
3. Ask them for referral letters.
4. Tell them exactly what you are looking for in terms of price, size, and location, move in dates, building amenities and apartment renovations and ask them for suggestions.
5. Ask your friends if they have used anyone they like.
6. Ask them how long they have been in the business.

Good Luck

i would like any non broker to get the leasing manager for pan am/manocherian/bldg etc an application on their blackberry right now. i can. and that is why if you are not using a broker you are losing out.

brokers are not worth it -- i went directly to the sponsor/landlord -- I was shown 10-- units not listed anywhere and given free rent.. SKIP the broker -- there are MANY vacancies -- keep your own money!

i went to bldg I liked -- ask doorman -- do not get suckered by a broker who wants a fee (paid for by either side is still out of your pocket!)

BA2 --

Why don't we put you to the test. In 5 minutes using SE NYBits, I found 233 listing on SE and 112 on NYBits for Murray Hill Kips Bay -- all NO FEE Apartments.

So, lemme understand you -- you have some kind of untapped pool of rentals that are at a better price than all these listings?

Come on BA2, let's have a post off -- let's see what you can produce and I'll see what I can match. Since you're a Murray Hill expert, let's stick to that hood. Feel free to give us links to your CL ads with full address information.

"i would like any non broker to get the leasing manager for pan am/manocherian/bldg etc an application on their blackberry right now. i can. and that is why if you are not using a broker you are losing out."

So, what' your $ecret? How much do they want per apartment? Seams phishy to me that they would not rent an apartment directly to a qualified renter...

parasites.

worth bumping this thread

Why does someone want a Pan Am apartment anyway?

splaken, do you know anything about pan am or manocherian buildings? they are huge landlords.

MAV
about 4 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse "i would like any non broker to get the leasing manager for pan am/manocherian/bldg etc an application on their blackberry right now. i can. and that is why if you are not using a broker you are losing out."

So, what' your $ecret? How much do they want per apartment? Seams phishy to me that they would not rent an apartment directly to a qualified renter...

mav, why is it so hard to understand that a company would prefer dealing with professional middlemen as opposed to the stupid half-wits that want to use their product.

but if no one believes me go to urban sherpa and look up pan am and mano.
CANT RENT THEIR APARTMENTS WITHOUT OUR HELP

jim_hones10
less than a minute ago
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report abuse splaken, do you know anything about pan am or manocherian buildings? they are huge landlords.

MAV
about 4 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse "i would like any non broker to get the leasing manager for pan am/manocherian/bldg etc an application on their blackberry right now. i can. and that is why if you are not using a broker you are losing out."

So, what' your $ecret? How much do they want per apartment? Seams phishy to me that they would not rent an apartment directly to a qualified renter...

mav, why is it so hard to understand that a company would prefer dealing with professional middlemen as opposed to the stupid half-wits that want to use their product.

but if no one believes me go to urban sherpa and look up pan am and mano.
CANT RENT THEIR APARTMENTS WITHOUT OUR HELP

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I normally don't comment on people assuming I'm someone else. However I'm not jimhones.

not sure if it was simply the market, but we received:

1. a free months rent
2. our broker got paid a commission
3. and we likely would not have received a second month free
4. there is no four, i just like even numbers

The Helena rented in August 09 for September occupancy

actually, i would like to see the post off between BA2 and jmkeenan ... sounds like the gauntlet is on the floor

some people will assume that an onsite leasing agent will give a prospective tennant an extra free month of rent if they come in without a broker since they don't have to give it to them. that isn't really the case. of course financially they end up in the same position (theoretical two free months free rent, vs one month free one month paid). they wouldn't rent enough of their own apartments on their own without help from the brokerage community. they need us to help them rent.

If I may add a bit of a different twist to this conversation - perhaps the question to ask is not "how much negotiability can I get with or without broker" ... rather "what's the lowest net price I can get in rent, and is that easiest done with or without a broker?"

Generally speaking, the more the landlord pays upfront (in terms of paying the fee, ergo "no fee", or free rent), the less negotiable your actual rent is. If you're looking to stay 1 year in your apt, the no fee route is the way to go. If, however, you're looking to stay 2+ years, then it's likely (not always, but likely) best to so with a unit where its subsidies (incentives) are not priced into the rent, and therefore require SOME outlay of money on your part.

I hope this helps: http://theapplepeeled.com/renters/demystifying-fee-vs-no-fee-apartments-a-closer-look-into-how-it-actually-works/

I think the only value added by a broker is a screening process they can do for an owner...theres almost no value added from the buyer / renter perspective.

Hi all, does anyone know how long the average renter is a renter for in an apartment?

i would venture to say 2.5-3 years or so ... though haven't seen any die-hard data on it

marco_m
about 1 hour ago
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report abuse I think the only value added by a broker is a screening process they can do for an owner...theres almost no value added from the buyer / renter perspective.

except of course in the case when you want to see somthing that you can't otherwise, or would have a great difficulty seeing otherwise, or wouldn't know about becausee its not advertised, etc.

Jim & Honeycrisp, a question for you two. Below, I'm going to use the term "buyer's broker" to mean the broker represening the renter.

Because of personal preferences, I don't really look at large managed rental buildings, but rather only at one-off listings that are typically listed with an exclusive broker more often than not at one of the big firms. I am indifferent as to whether or not I'm paying the fee or the owner pays the fee. If the owner has set up a situation whereby the only solution is for me to pay a 15% fee (as opposed to, say, the owner paying 1 month), then so be it, I'll take it out of the owner's hide in the form of a lower negotiated rent. I just care about the total cost.

I don't use a buyer's broker because I have found they add little value. I have found that in one-sided situations there's actually a whole lot of flexibility because of a lack of a buyer's broker: I have had exclusive brokers say upfront that it's a 1-month fee rather than 15% because I don't have a buyer's broker, the fee has been reduced to bring the owner & me closer in negotiations, etc. Furthermore with SE, I have found that my knowledge of the inventory is much better, and I have found that buyer's brokers are mostly interested in finding you an apartment that is acceptable rather than the best apartment possible.

Quite frankly, I'd in theory be happy with paying extra to have a buyer's broker who actually knew the inventory and could efficiently direct me towards the best places. In reality, I have found that with a few hours I can scan the entire inventory that matches my criteria on SE (several hundred) and determine the best dozen or two places, which is less time that it'd take to deal with a buyer's broker.

My question is this: would you recommend buyer's broker a person like me?

inonada
1 minute ago
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report abuse Jim & Honeycrisp, a question for you two. Below, I'm going to use the term "buyer's broker" to mean the broker represening the renter.

Because of personal preferences, I don't really look at large managed rental buildings, but rather only at one-off listings that are typically listed with an exclusive broker more often than not at one of the big firms. I am indifferent as to whether or not I'm paying the fee or the owner pays the fee. If the owner has set up a situation whereby the only solution is for me to pay a 15% fee (as opposed to, say, the owner paying 1 month), then so be it, I'll take it out of the owner's hide in the form of a lower negotiated rent. I just care about the total cost.

I don't use a buyer's broker because I have found they add little value. I have found that in one-sided situations there's actually a whole lot of flexibility because of a lack of a buyer's broker: I have had exclusive brokers say upfront that it's a 1-month fee rather than 15% because I don't have a buyer's broker, the fee has been reduced to bring the owner & me closer in negotiations, etc. Furthermore with SE, I have found that my knowledge of the inventory is much better, and I have found that buyer's brokers are mostly interested in finding you an apartment that is acceptable rather than the best apartment possible.

Quite frankly, I'd in theory be happy with paying extra to have a buyer's broker who actually knew the inventory and could efficiently direct me towards the best places. In reality, I have found that with a few hours I can scan the entire inventory that matches my criteria on SE (several hundred) and determine the best dozen or two places, which is less time that it'd take to deal with a buyer's broker.

My question is this: would you recommend buyer's broker a person like me?

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quick story: me yesterday, in the pouring rain on the UWS with a couple looking for a classic 6. i had been showing everything that i possibly could given the scarcity of inventory for the product (in their price point, etc). the night before i had emailed my boss and asked for anything that might be out there that he knew about that i didn't. turns out there was an apartment in the low west 80's of cpw that had just begun being renovated. was able to hustle my clients over there, meet the owner, see the unit in raw form. everyone is happy. now, if they hadn't been working with me, they would have never seen this apartment, because its still 3-4 wks away from being listed.
that's an example of what a good diligent agent can do for you.

inonada ... truthfully, probably not. Using your terminology, the greatest values a "buyer's broker' can provide are:
1) inventory knowledge (includes knowing what's available as WELL as which landlords you wouldn't let even your enemies rent in or which buildings have had issues)
2) service / time-saving
3) board package preparation (if needed)
4) negotiation abilities / market dynamic understanding

It seems like you have #1 covered, and you're fine with spending the time to do your own search. In terms of total cost, you are right in that approach. Then it's a matter of: what happens when you come across that listing where the landlord's represented and you're not? in the rental world, it matters much less than in the purchase world; arguably, a third party can almost always yield better negotiation results than one can for onesself ... though, again, the stakes are so much lower in the rental world.

Are there going to be those "pocket listings" that are not yet on the market? Every now and then, sure. In the summer, especially, having an agent who has a direct relationship with the landlord and can tell you what's coming up and when is a good thing.

Bottom line, if you are doing the research and really know your stuff, willing to spend the time, and enjoy the process (which I'm assuming you do by your level of activity on SE *smile*), you can do it by yourself.

Good point, Jim. Come to think of it, I have run into a couple of such situations where a broker could show me a place during renovation before listing. It never really worked out since the places were not getting I'm-gonna-live-here-myself quality renovations that I'd want.

However, I am very dismayed by your story of hustling clients around in the pouring rain and working diligently on a Saturday for them. Hardly matches the a-hole "gimme my damn money for nothing, here's your craphole" broker persona you try to hard to project here. Hell, people might even start thinking you're a good broker deep down inside...

Honeycrisp, yes I do enjoy the process a little too much. You make a fine point on the negotiation results, though I do think the incentives can skew things in the other direction as well. If you've read Freakonomics, I'm sure you've seen the section on the study that was done that showed RE brokers negotiated better prices when selling their own homes.

Jim, one more thing. Had you stopped your phrase "was able to hustle my clients over there" at the word "clients", I wouldn't be so confused ;).

inonada
1 day ago
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report abuse Good point, Jim. Come to think of it, I have run into a couple of such situations where a broker could show me a place during renovation before listing. It never really worked out since the places were not getting I'm-gonna-live-here-myself quality renovations that I'd want.

However, I am very dismayed by your story of hustling clients around in the pouring rain and working diligently on a Saturday for them. Hardly matches the a-hole "gimme my damn money for nothing, here's your craphole" broker persona you try to hard to project here. Hell, people might even start thinking you're a good broker deep down inside...

i work hard for my clients. i want them to find a good apartment and of course, i don't get paid unless they get it through me so there is the financial incentive. honeycrip either doesn't have the contacts OR doesn't work hard enough is he/she feels a layperson can do a better job finding apartments than she can. i KNOW i am going to be able to show someone something that they couldn't have seen on their own. but a few years of experience, a good network, etc go along way (along with hard work)

about 3 hours ago
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report abuse inonada
1 day ago
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report abuse Good point, Jim. Come to think of it, I have run into a couple of such situations where a broker could show me a place during renovation before listing. It never really worked out since the places were not getting I'm-gonna-live-here-myself quality renovations that I'd want.

However, I am very dismayed by your story of hustling clients around in the pouring rain and working diligently on a Saturday for them. Hardly matches the a-hole "gimme my damn money for nothing, here's your craphole" broker persona you try to hard to project here. Hell, people might even start thinking you're a good broker deep down inside...

i work hard for my clients. i want them to find a good apartment and of course, i don't get paid unless they get it through me so there is the financial incentive. honeycrip either doesn't have the contacts OR doesn't work hard enough is he/she feels a layperson can do a better job finding apartments than she can. i KNOW i am going to be able to show someone something that they couldn't have seen on their own. but a few years of experience, a good network, etc go along way (along with hard work)

I don't know, Jim. If I were a broker, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want me as a client ;). Honeycrisp might have it right.

So what's your position on buying these days? I know you've just signed a 2-year lease. Is your decision to keep renting at the moment driven by personal reasons or by the market?

personal reasons (ie a "suprise" addition to the family; hence the two bedroom) and I have a cousin who is a fund manager and takes pretty good care of our money. the plan is to start looking in about a year and a half to buy a condo. but ultimately when we saw our soon to be apartment (moving april 1) we loved it, and there is no way we are in a position to purchase an equivelant apartment.

inonada: you're funny :) just to clarify: it's not that agents wouldn't want you as a client. I took your question to ask: "should I use an agent?" or "do you think I need to use an agent". :)

Jim, the work you did for a client to find a place not yet on the market is a strong example.

The shouting you were doing I saw on another thread about finding a Pan Am building. Listen, I don't know the Pan Am buildings but that probably also lends itself to the fact that these aren't necessarily special buildings. So, yes I acknowledge that working with you increases the inventory available to the renter which is generally a good thing, but I'd stick with your example just above regarding your services this weekend as being a better representation of what value you can offer in the market.

Honeycrisp, you talk about it being more beneficial to rent a fee apartment if someone is staying for more than 1 year. Reality is that landlords, like any marketer of any product, assumes an average duration of the life of a customer and looks at customer acquisition cost (e.g. painting, listing time, fee to a broker, etc.) in relation to the average duration and the distribution of the duration. If people were flipping places annually, then yes, your example makes sense. If people are staying AVERGAGE 3 years, 5 years, whatever, then your case doesn't make sense.

splaken
16 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse Jim, the work you did for a client to find a place not yet on the market is a strong example.

The shouting you were doing I saw on another thread about finding a Pan Am building. Listen, I don't know the Pan Am buildings but that probably also lends itself to the fact that these aren't necessarily special buildings. So, yes I acknowledge that working with you increases the inventory available to the renter which is generally a good thing, but I'd stick with your example just above regarding your services this weekend as being a better representation of what value you can offer in the market.

Hi Splaken,

Pan Am and their sister company Manocherian have some extremely high quality apartments in some of the best and most desireable neighbhorhoods in the city. I could give examples, but again, they are also listed on Urban Sherpa; with a note that says you need a broker. They also have their share of inexpensive walk-up apartments, so they literally cover pricepoint in most neighborhoods. Not to say that those are the only apartments I show or have access to that others don't, but they are an example of two large landlords that only deal with the brokerage community.

Jim, thanks for the answer, and congrats on the new place.

"Pan Am and their sister company Manocherian have some extremely high quality apartments in some of the best and most desireable neighbhorhoods in the city."
It seems to me that this is more of a marketing tool by the landlord than necessarily something that benefits the renter. By being broker only, then the broker can tell the renter how great the opportunity is and steer the renters there, and the broker knows he's protected as well.
Curious how many other landlords are broker-only. And curious to hear if Jim you steer more renters to PanAm and the loyalty is two-way.

splaken
about 13 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse "Pan Am and their sister company Manocherian have some extremely high quality apartments in some of the best and most desireable neighbhorhoods in the city."
It seems to me that this is more of a marketing tool by the landlord than necessarily something that benefits the renter. By being broker only, then the broker can tell the renter how great the opportunity is and steer the renters there, and the broker knows he's protected as well.
Curious how many other landlords are broker-only. And curious to hear if Jim you steer more renters to PanAm and the loyalty is two-way.

splaken, you are mistaken. there isn't any marketing behind it, that doesn't make any sense. these companies have always used brokers to show their apartments and will continue to. the only difference is now in a down market, they are paying the commission as opposed to the renter.
i show and rent a lot of their apartments, but it has more to do with the growing transparency in the market. this is often inventory that i can show someone that they can't find on their own.

there are a lot of smaller landlords that do business this way as well, but as opposed to being open listings, usually one firm or broker might have an exlusive. there are a lot more landlords who might rent an apartment to someone off the street, but most would find the process very difficult. unless you are "wired in" getting some of these people on the phone or to return email would be almost impossible.

I am the opposite. I rent all of my apartments myself (Advertise here, CL and on own website), and don't want any brokers getting in the middle of me and my potential tenants, nor do I want either of us paying a fee.

Although we are a dying breed, there are still many hands on landlords who do everything like we do, in house still.

Tenants sure do appreciate meeting us at the very beginning, and since we foster personal relationships with our tenants, we have not had major vacancy increases like so many others have had. In fact, we get contacted by people referred to us from tenants almost daily.

I used a broker and was the better for it because I don't have the time to see every possible apartment in my price range. The stuff available changes so quickly that it's hard to find the right place at just the right time and the right place. My broker knew what I wanted and after we looked for a few days she found something, called me up and had me leave work to look at it and it perfect. It was only on the market for an hour when I applied for it. There are definitely advantages to having a broker. She was great, but find the right broker, one that you like and get a good vibe from. There are just too many apartments to see and in a very small window of time between when your lease is up and when the other starts. At the same time there are certain buildings you can to yourself but my apartment wasn't a building, it was a brownstone and the landlord here prefers brokers to filter out those that aren't good tenant prospects.It's really the only city where it is done this way. I have lived in D.C and you are on your own there because there aren't so many dizzying array of choices. I say use a broker or don't use one depending on what you want, where you're looking and if you have time to do the legwork yourself.

Bigapple seems like a really good broker and MAV seems like a really good landlord. I think there is room for both and also our economy is in bad enough shape and to stop paying brokers would send the economy reeling with all the lost jobs. EVERYBODY is trying to make money, Bigapple and Mav, and the people who rent from them are all out to make money and there is nothing wrong with it. Before I graduated I was a waitress and there was a big hoopla about paying us a tip but all I can say is that this is a system and this system works, pay the broker, keep the money and spend it on shopping, tip the waitress so she pays her bills, it all goes around and there is a job for everyone. Okay?

Okay.

I'm sure you can manage to negotiate a price by yourself. If you have a good credit and great recomendations from previous landlord, I don’t think you will have problems with that. Just read a couple topics that will teach you how to negotiate price when renting an apartment by doing research in advance, promoting yourself as a prospective tenant, and being flexible during the negotiations. If you don't want to negotiate a price in person, you can do it online via such rental platform as Rentberry.