If manhattan condos sell for 700-900 psqft, where does that put williamsburg?

I think the price should be 100 ppsf (pizzas per square foot)

i don't know, gcondo, those frou-frou pizzas are running $20 apiece these days. $2000 psf seems a bit rich for almost any neighborhood.

I cant be blamed for the price of pizza. Take dollars out of the equation 100ppsf should be the new standard. buyer beware.

> Anything below 1,200 psqft in Manhattan is ghetto.

I guess that makes every neighborhood in Manhattan ghetto now...

BTW, there is also a surprisingly very good slice place across from MSG, SW corner of 31 &8.

Suprema on 31st and 8th..best in that hood for sure

yes, thats the one I'm thinking of. just a very nice slice. I prefer Ray's, though its less consistent.... and it can be very thick and overwhelming (and mucho grease). But, oh, the taste...

i may be a minority on this issue but i like pizza that is not thick and goopy:

- the 1$ a slice placen(less cheese, thin and crustyish) on avenue A betw about 9 or so across from tompkins

- Pizza Express in london...thin, not too much cheese

SE, age old question, New York Style or Chicago?

NY, of course.
I like Chicago, but I won't call it pizza. Its more like lasagne.

Btw, it was apparently invented because it would be easier to store and refrigerate...

Food Network or one of those did a taste test once with a bunch of LA firefighters. NYC won, of course.

I just had some Two Boots in the upper east side delivered through seamlessweb last night. Very salty and greasy, but good. Wonder how that compares to the other Two Boots...

On a more serious and relevant note for this thread, I'm going to take a stand and say that no deals should be done over $700 psf. Deals are getting done now in nice buildings in prime locations for $600 psf (70 Berry). And soon enough this year you'll see prime WB in the $500's. If rental prices hold steady with demand at around the $35 psf range, I'd be in the game if it hits $425 psf, but so would a lot of folks looking at it from an investment point of view so probably not likely.

Seeing how the 142 unit rental building at 34 Berry fares in a few months should shed light on rental demand/pxing, not to mention the ultra lofts at 184 Kent. But if The Edge or NSP were to go rental, a potential investment at this point would probably not look too smart.

free..i don't think edge can go rental at this point...but maybe nsp2 ...something about condo rules, i think.but im not sure

wow...didnt know about 34 berry....So, we have a situation where the percentage of housing stock in a hood is way way up over say two years ago, in a market where the main gauge in manhattan is 25% down, and wmburg is supposed to absorb all this, when,as aboutready noted, only about 540 units sold in wmburg all last year...something would seem to have to give....

i find the ues to be a tough spot to find any good pie so two boots(or arturos) are the options for me if i find myself there. I find they both are improved by a "well done" request especially two boots. The best TB is still in the east village but with the overabundance of good places there its tough to choose.
As for nsp and 184 kent. I'm sure there are a lot of folks who love the idea of a manhattan view but the walk to the subway is a no go for me. I have to believe there is a group of people (like myself) who put a premium on proximity to the bedford L stop. So 34 berry is more pertinent than the rest

Yeah, 540 units sold in all Williamsburg, while just in those two buildings alone you have 482 new units for rent. And with those two buildings, you have the waterfront crowd and the L-train crowd represented. How these rentals do will tell an interesting story about the demand for WB that excludes the market segment consisting of those who were looking to buy but were priced out of the city.

I shall try to request "well done" next time, thx.

Whether "preference" should include financial factors is an interesting question. I am of the opinion that for most people, when discussing their preferences in everyday context, they take into account all sorts of factors including financial factors, and consider them in totality, giving appropriate weight to certain factors as the person deems fit. To completely ignore the cost constraint would obviously deviate from the realities of the world. And if someone says, "I prefer Brooklyn because it's gritty, less snobby and roomier notwithstanding the fact that it is cheaper," then I would take them for face value rather than trying to rebut with an if-then scenario that suspends reality ("you wouldn't live like that if you had a billion dollars") or insisting that the financial factor played a major role ("roomier really means cheaper"). I for one work in FiDi but live in Brooklyn because I prefer this arrangement, notwithstanding the fact that I can afford to live in Manhattan. Many of my colleagues share similar sentiments.

8E at schaefer landing north is on the market for $481 psf. i have no idea when they went into contract, but they were one of the initial sales.

10/24/2006Previous Sale recorded for $733,140.
08/12/2009Listed by Prudential Elliman at $675,000.
09/01/2009Price decreased by 2% to $660,000.
09/30/2009Price decreased by 2% to $650,000.
10/23/2009Price decreased by 4% to $625,000.
12/01/2009Price decreased by 4% to $600,000.

> i find the ues to be a tough spot to find any good pie

walk to the original patsy's on 116th. Better than lombardi's or johns downtown...

aboutready..i find this location to be the equivalent of the Sessanta of bburg. i would hire a sherpa to carry my stuff to the train. prime example of how discussing williamsburg as one cohesive hood is problematic.

pizza in WB:
motorino on Graham & Ainslie
or
fornino on Bedford bet. n.7th and n.8th
or
baci & abbracci on grand bet. bedford and driggs

all 3 thin, excellent toppings

Moxie. I'm talking comps. Comps are comps. The thread called for pricing info. I think this movement is significant.

i agree and disagree. The movement is definitely significant. The thread is calling for pricing info. However comps are not comps if they are not comparable. Would you say the Sessanta is a neighborhood comp to time warner? My point is simple to call all of bburg one big nabe is equivalent to calling 50th and 10th the same as 58th and 8th. I am not taking issue with the fact you presented it is indisputable.

Moxie I don't think we disagree. However read the title of the thread.

wisco,

Jerry's or Andies on Grand street bet Manhattan & Leonard is good. That pizzeria old school W'Burg.

"My point is simple to call all of bburg one big nabe is equivalent to calling 50th and 10th the same as 58th and 8th. I am not taking issue with the fact you presented it is indisputable."

mutombo, are you reading this?

bjw2103,

No, I'm not reading that and get out here with your agenda. Comparing apples to oranges.

comparing shafted landing(they took away their water taxi after selling all units) with prime w'burg is akin to comparing east harlem to the west village. living 5 minutes from the bedford L train with plenty of restaurants, bars etc around you is far better than living in no-mans land

wannabuy, exactly. Guess I shouldn't expect mutombo to take the blinders off.

bjw2103,

You & that don't make any sense.

Williamsburg is at $550 per square foot, according to the new Warehouse 11 (214 North 11th Street) listings. Whether those will actually sell, given the negative press of the building, is a bit of a guess. It's a good location, low prices, low monthlies, fairly extensive list of amenities.

Here we go! I thought it would take a bit longer but hey, better earlier than later. $450-$550 psf according to aptandlofts. Let the games begin...

mutombo, your inability to grasp the English language is formidable.

Surprised to see Warehouse 11 back on the market. It's a doomed building, as far as I'm concerned. Sitting on a "membrane", ugly, and reports of serious neglect - not a winning formula. Location is decent at least, but there's too much out there to jump at this. Will be interesting watch at least.

> I find they both are improved by a "well done" request especially two boots

I like two boots slices much better than the pieces. Something about reheating...

> Whether "preference" should include financial factors is an interesting question

With a simple answer from the dictionary... no.

> To completely ignore the cost constraint would obviously deviate from the realities of the world

Now you're just making things up. No one is saying ignore the cost constraint in making decisions in the real world.

But you're confusing making decisions and preferences.... a decision is not only based on preference, its generally based on many, as well as tradeoffs and other (often financial) considerations.

But don't pretend preference means something that it doesn't.

If you prefer steak over chicken (the example in the dictionary) but order the chicken because its cheaper, chicken still 'aint your preference.

Warehouse 11...wow..now its a race to the bottom

bjw2103,

Your agenda laden is unbelievable. If you lived on Gramham & Ainslie that would be prime W'Burg to you. I'm an old W'Burg resident and don't get with the "prime" from "non-prime" locations within the neighborhood as I see all of it as W'Burg. Its a new day and I have to understand the superficial mentality that exist in W'Burg. Today, it seems that residents like breaking down the neighborhood to make themselves seem bigger than what they are LOL. Brooklyn the new Manhattan allegedly.

somewhereelse,

LOL & good example. "If you prefer steak over chicken (the example in the dictionary) but order the chicken because its cheaper, chicken still 'aint your preference."

I'm interested in hearing more pertaining to Warehouse 11 :o).

Back to op, 'you r screwed is where they b at'. Flmao

"Your agenda laden is unbelievable."

What's a "laden"? Seriously, if English is your first language and you've always lived in Williamsburg (neither of which I think is true), then I can finally see why you might think the schools aren't that great. Though even then, it's probably just you.

"If you lived on Gramham & Ainslie that would be prime W'Burg to you."

It's a nice spot, but not prime, regardless of where I live or would live.

"I'm an old W'Burg resident and don't get with the "prime" from "non-prime" locations within the neighborhood as I see all of it as W'Burg. Its a new day and I have to understand the superficial mentality that exist in W'Burg."

It's your choice if you "get with" it or not, but that doesn't make it false. The area around the Bedford stop is prime - do you honestly disagree with that? It's more desirable to more people, not hard to understand.

"somewhereelse, LOL & good example."

I finally get it - the pointless compliments, referring to somewhere/nyc10022 as a female, asking "her" to dinner at Peter Luger's. There are better websites for what you're looking for.

"If manhattan condos sell for 700-900 psqft, where does that put williamsburg"

I'd put williamsburg at 60% of value of what downtown manhattan (south of 96th) for "like kind" (luxury,doorman,etc) buildings.

So I'd say 420-540 p sq ft.

I think 30 years down the road williamsburg,LIC, and much of coastal queens and brooklyn will be within 80% to 90% of downtown. Much like kowloon bay to hong kong island.
But not yet. It will have to enjoy at least 2 more boom periods of growth.

the "IF" is big though. Luxury new construction condos in man. are not selling for 700-900psf, more like 1000-1200, so by your estimation 600-720 in bklyn/lic would be ok

kiz

Well, that's what the original poster asked. "If." And I agree, current closings are in that range(1000-1200).
Of course considering the shadow inventory in manhattan and it's further affect on the rental market,it is more than likely the rental market will suck down the sales market further.I think this affect has hit Brooklyn much faster.
So for a snapshot in time (right now),Williamsburg may be a bargain (ie Northside piers,etc) but then end of 2010 may be a different story.

All I'm saying is "I think" Williamsburg is worth 420-540 psf because it corrected faster than Manhattan.

Of course if I were amiable to living in Williamsburg, I'd "overpay" 10/15% for an apt I loved as I think these areas will "manhattanize" 20 plus years down the road.

If I were amiable..... :)

truthskr, I find you pretty amiable - I think you mean amenable!

bjw2103

LOL ouch,yes proper correction.
The english portion on my SAT was 60% of what my math score was. ;)

bjw2103,

The stats show W'Burg schools are performing poorly, how can you dispute stats?

"It's a nice spot, but not prime, regardless of where I live or would live."

Stop kidding yourself? LOL.

The Bedford Ave section of W'Burg was the most undeveloped section of W'Burg. Its the most desirable section of W'Burg to live in or hang out in?

Would you prefer for me to compliment you when your incorrect and biased? Your're envious of and would love to possess the wisdom that somewhereelse have. Stay classy and have a Happy New Year.

Well guys/gals, we got our place on 122nd & 7th for under $500 sq. ft and I really like it up there. UES it isn't (where we lived for the previous 8 years), but the area around Mt. Morris Park is beautiful and we have the A/2/3 around the corner. FDB around 125th is seeing a lot of recent development also. GL wherever you are!

"The stats show W'Burg schools are performing poorly, how can you dispute stats?"

mutombo, the stats show that they're performing well - how can YOU dispute the stats? You're incredible.

"Its the most desirable section of W'Burg to live in or hang out in?"

Both.

"Would you prefer for me to compliment you when your incorrect and biased? Your're envious of and would love to possess the wisdom that somewhereelse have."

Uh, no. It's pretty evident you're the one with the bad info and the bias. Same goes for your friend much of the time, sorry.

bjw2103,

No, the stats showed W'Burg schools have improved but still barely making a passing grade. Your the same person that think there's going to be another bubble and the schools stellar performance will be the cause of the bubble. somewhereelse, provides better info pertaining to RE than you do anyday.

mutombo, you're just making sh!t up, it's hilarious. Never said a thing about another bubble, much less its relation to schools. As for their performance, yes, they're improving, and yes, they're performing well. It's another thing entirely to understand that good schools do positively affect real estate values, but you probably don't get the difference. We can debate endlessly about what the stats actually are (and I've linked to them plenty of times), but they're there if anyone wants to check them. I don't think you know what you're talking about - you just regurgitate your buddy's thoughts (and it's a he, btw).

bjw2103,

I did not make that up. Infact, you have hinted that W'Burg schools stellar performance will raise your property value. If grades in the range of 65 - 70 are signs of good performance, its a good thing your without child and you accepted the lower standards because the schools are located in W'Burg due to the agenda you have. Today, a good school, located in a gentrified neighborhood, will have no effect on W'Burg property value decreasing or increasing. I already checked the link to the stats you misread. somewhereelse, sex does'nt matter somewhereelse, of better moral fiber than you will ever be.

I know this will be hard for you in your honest opinion, where do value W'Burg PSFT?

mutombo, you completely made up the "bubble" bs. I have more than hinted that good schools will improve property values - they will. Are you disputing that? There's overwhelming evidence that you'd be wrong.

"Today, a good school, located in a gentrified neighborhood, will have no effect on W'Burg property value decreasing or increasing."

What gentrified neighborhood? If it's in Williamsburg, if course it will. If it's on the UWS... well, did you really think that's the point I was making? That would be quite stupid, sorry.

"If grades in the range of 65 - 70 are signs of good performance"

Where's your source?

Here's a report: http://schools.nyc.gov/OA/SchoolReports/2008-09/Progress_Report_2009_EMS_K132.pdf
In case you can't understand it, that's not quite the "poor performance" picture you imagined.

"where do value W'Burg PSFT?"

If we're talking good quality, new construction, prime northside (assuming no outdoor space), I'd say $550 psf is a pretty darn good deal. It hasn't really gotten that low for the time being, but there isn't much reason to rush into a purchase now either.

bjw2103,

Yes, i'm disputing your claim, in a normal economy, schools performing good will increase property value in an abnormal economy a school performing good will not increase property value as your "claim" W'Burg schools are performing good and has improved but property values are at a steady decline. As you state "if course it will."

"but there isn't much reason to rush into a purchase now either." Does that pertain to you? If someone has the funding and wants to purchase its timing for them but don't cry about a sour outcome later.

bjw2103,

If you had a child your child would not attend P.S. 132. I said W'Burg schools not school P.S. 132 is not the only grammar school in W'Burg. Again, posting misleading information very similiar to your units available inventory for W'Burg. BTW, can you post that template again?

oy vey you two could give anyone a headache

kiz10014,

LOL, I apologize.

"Yes, i'm disputing your claim, in a normal economy, schools performing good will increase property value in an abnormal economy a school performing good will not increase property value as your "claim" W'Burg schools are performing good and has improved but property values are at a steady decline."

Good, you finally agree that the schools are performing well. As to the rest of your point, you're confusing a few things: in a real estate market where property values are declining, if schools are still improving, that doesn't mean that values won't continue to come down. But that does not preclude the notion that better schools are mitigating the decline. In other words, better schools are actually helping to raise property values (and in this case prevent them from going lower than they would if schools weren't improving). Hopefully you understand that. In the long run, better schools will lead to continued appreciation. It's no coincidence that areas with the best public schools are among the most expensive to live in.

"Does that pertain to you? If someone has the funding and wants to purchase its timing for them but don't cry about a sour outcome later."

What? That's gibberish.

"If you had a child your child would not attend P.S. 132. I said W'Burg schools not school P.S. 132 is not the only grammar school in W'Burg. Again, posting misleading information very similiar to your units available inventory for W'Burg. BTW, can you post that template again?"

Ok, you're just plain stupid at this point, and in deference to kiz, I'll stop with this: you're completely full of sh!t about my kid not being able to attend 132. It's not the only grammar school in the neighborhood, but it's an example of a school that's doing well. It's not misleading just because it proves you utterly wrong. And there's no "template" - it's a count of the inventory. You don't like it, get over it. But don't ever expect to be taken seriously in any real estate discussion if this is all you're capable of.

It's ok, don't let me stop you
Are either/ or both of you guys attorneys bec you certainly like to vigorously debate your points.

one simple question.
1) if we suppose the city added another L train stop west of bedford on the water's edge(near the new big developments) would this increase,decrease or have no effect on property values within those developments?

it might eventually add, but personally i don't think the walk to the train is that bad, its about 5-10 min depending on your speed, but i think my opinion is the minority.

moxie, I've long thought they should just extend the V line to Grand/Kent. It would be pretty darn expensive, but it makes too much sense, especially if they could add another station at Ave C or D.

bjw,
i see that having some merit. could you also respond to the question i posed plz?
kiz,
fair answer. may i ask do u have to take the train everyday to work?

moxie, I'm pretty confident that an L stop on Kent would help values on the waterfront, but for me the question is how much. Like kiz, I don't think the walk to Bedford is bad at all if you're at NSP or the Edge (80 Met is a bit of a schlep though). I'm not an engineer, but I imagine that building a station that close to the water might be a bit more difficult on an existing line, but who knows?

Currently I do not have to take the train daily;
to me all, things being equal i would choose a closer dwelling, but i wouldn't sacrifice anything i wanted in a residence for an extra 5 min walk.

Train stops are huge.

You know I considered Northside piers for half a second but drove past and saw how pretty dead the immediate area was. Not as big a deal if there is trains stop 2 blocks away.
Bottom line is none of my friends live in Brooklyn. I have no intention of pioneering.
The view is not enough of a draw for me, and it is the only draw other than price.

If I were Northside piers, considering I have two towers to sell in a fringe neighborhood that will have to wait for the next boom, I'd spend a little to make a little. I'd put up a top notch restaurant on one of the roofs or down by the dock. I'd negotiate with the city and find out what it would take to get some of that water taxi service to there.

Otherwise, it's just a future Astoria to me.

mutombo do u care to respond?

the question is pure conjecture i'm sure it is pretty tough(engineering wise) to add a station. for the real example one could ask...will the opening of the 2nd ave subway (if ever) increase,decrease or have no effect on prices between 1st and york (in the 60s,70s and 80s)?

Considering that they've taken over half a century to build the 2nd ave subway,
I wouldn't hold my breath.
And I think that the astronomical expense of building a Kent Ave stop, would ultimately be
paid by taxes from the expiring 421a's in Williamsburg.

the question is purely hypothetical...not asking for its likelihood just simply trying to understand whether people think there is value in proximity to a train stop..

i know from your recent purchase jmg that u most likely think there is some value in proximity..

moxie, I think there's no doubt that proximity to a train stop is a plus for value. For the 2nd Ave subway, I think you'll start to see that reflected more and more as the train becomes a reality (or doesn't, God forbid). It's not an overnight change. Look at the 7 extension and Hudson Yards - there's a reason that the subway was an important part in redeveloping the area and drawing people in.

i confess i posed these queries to hear the reasoning behind it not adding value?
this side would have to be taken by your main adversaries here bjw..they are not
chiming in?

Not adding value? ok mox.
Again, the increased taxes to build it
The detours, dirt and confusion around the site for 5 years
Ever walk around bedford and 7th on a friday or saturday night, or any warm night in the summer?
Loud. Lots of people, car stereos, horns, traffic jams, craziness, loitering etc.

the attempt is transparent jmg. i am trying to hear from the "bburg is one neighborhood crowd" who believe there is no value to a location close to(but not on top of) the closest train stop to manhattan(bedford ave).

moxie, hilarious. But I don't think the troll will bite.

i don't know moxie... one time on an overbooked plane to miami.. the stewardess said xtra sandwich for seat, no takers, 1 nite hotel... not takers... 15k miles, no takers.... 2 business class tkts to miami in 3 hours... I get beat by an old albanian lady in a walker.... How do i know she's Albanian, well i sued her of course for knocking me down...

I remember the NY1 report from 6-8 weeks ago. Bloomberg closed a school for lousy performance, its standard MO. It failed whatever set of standards they used.

Funny part was, a month before, it got an A grade from the Dept. of Ed.

As I said, you can't just read the headlines, you have to look at actual scores.

Moxie, i think i know what you are getting at. I think it is hard to put a value on this kind of thing, bec again it is such a personal preference. the value inherent to the difference in distance to L between a place like north 10th and nsp is tough to say. unlike a location like schaeffer landing where it becomes a definite deal breaker for most. how much of a difference is there in value betw living on lex ave vs 2nd ave for transportation purposes? whereas east end ave will automatically exlcude all who need the train (for now), if it was me i would prefer the better of the 2 dwellings and deal with the extra walk, and pay very little extra for something completely comparable if the only difference was a few more minute walk. say i was buying a $1m pad, would i pay even 50k more to be 5min closer to train, personally-no

yes but kiz if you had to ride the train everyday, and let's say u had to be at work at 9am, and that walk was 15mins(york to lex)...would u pay the extra 5% then?...10%?
w67..that story is classic

moxieland,

"one simple question.
1) if we suppose the city added another L train stop west of bedford on the water's edge(near the new big developments) would this increase,decrease or have no effect on property values within those developments?"

No, I don't think the train addition near the big developments will have any effect on the developments property value. The L @ Bedford Ave train is in close proximity to those developments. The additional train station will benefit those developments and not the significant population of NYC as most of "prime" northside W'Burg is closer to the L @ Bedford Ave.

here is the challenge about another stop close to the water... it would be waaaaay underground.

This is what happens to the underground trains..... to be well beneath the river level, they get pretty low. And because subway trains take a while to go up a bank (they keep the angle small), they get pretty far in before they come close to the surface.

Or, you're talking about something like the 63rd street F with its godknows how many flights down.

So, a station could be helpful, yes. But if it takes you 10 minutes to descend...

I used to completely ignore the F by me, it was easier to walk to the NR/6 and not have to descend as much.

mutombo,
i am not trying to be difficult as i don't start any disagreements on this board and always try to be cordial but i really can't decipher your response. the first sentence makes sense. the second sentence does as well. the third sentence huh?

bjw2103,

"Good, you finally agree that the schools are performing well."

Are you reading my post? No, I did not agree with you.

"As to the rest of your point, you're confusing a few things: in a real estate market where property values are declining, if schools are still improving, that doesn't mean that values won't continue to come down."

Your new claim is totally untrue, as values are continuing to decline and schools are improving.

From where you currently reside, your child is not zoned to attend P.S. 132. The stats you posted is only part of the equation, grading W'Burg elementary schools as more school exist in W'Burg. We were talking about W'Burg school performance overall, for you to post stats pertaining only to P.S. 132 shows your consistent agenda.

somewhere,
all very fair points. i agree that those absurdly deep stations are just useless. So if just for the sake of discussion the station was accessible " a station could be helpful" would mean it could increase property value?

The additional train station will benefit those developments and not the significant population of NYC as most of "prime" northside W'Burg is closer to the L @ Bedford Ave.

The tenants & employees of the big developments will benefit from the train station being built close to the big developments. That train station will not benefit the greater population of NYC. Most of "prime" northside W'Burg is closer to the L @ Bedford Ave. The walk from the super developments to the train station @ Bedford Ave is not a long walk.

thx now i get what your saying.

kiz10014,

LOL @ you I'm not an attorney.

moxieland,

You remind me of someone :o). What do you think of my post?

Most recent post that is.

Mutombo-

Not many people with your name...knew someone at Stuyvesant high school with the same name...1990 or thereabouts....you?

Mpancheri,

I'm not that person. That name mutombo for SE :o).

I graduated georgetown in 1991 with a guy named dikembe mutombo

lol.

kiz10014: I also went to GU ('95). When I first saw mutombonyc's username I too thought of Dikembe! Ha.

LOL @ BillyRes. I got the name because of my "accent".

GU In Da House.

"Your new claim is totally untrue"

You don't understand what I wrote at all. Sigh.

"From where you currently reside, your child is not zoned to attend P.S. 132. The stats you posted is only part of the equation, grading W'Burg elementary schools as more school exist in W'Burg. We were talking about W'Burg school performance overall, for you to post stats pertaining only to P.S. 132 shows your consistent agenda."

Jesus, you're arrogant and willfully ignorant. You know where I live? I'm in district 14. Guess where 132 is zoned. I posted an example - do you understand what an example is? There are other schools (see wisco's post in this thead). I've consistently said that there are a few good schools - not all of them. You're clueless mutombo, sorry.

bjw2103,

Your now saying that as long as an individual lives in district 14 their child can attend any school within district 14? You live on the NS of W'Burg that address is not zoned for P.S. 132. I'm done dealing with you and your nonsense on this thread.

"The tenants & employees of the big developments will benefit from the train station being built close to the big developments."

"That train station will not benefit the greater population of NYC. Most of "prime" northside W'Burg is closer to the L @ Bedford Ave. The walk from the super developments to the train station @ Bedford Ave is not a long walk."

With both NSP towers, the Edge, 184 Kent, 173 Kent, 49 North 8th, not to mention all the existing residents along Kent and Wythe, a waterfront station would certainly benefit a lot of people. How quickly you forgot how massive those towers are. To say it would not have any affect on value is plain wrong. Especially when you yourself admit that it would benefit those developments. So is a benefit worthless? Do you see how you can make no sense?

mutombo, 132 is in the northside. You pass these judgments without knowing very much.

132 is not on the NS. Its on Metropolitan & Manhattan thats not the NS.