Mamdani and rent control

Rent regulation laws are driven by Albany politicians with the sole goal to screw the landlords and get votes. Reasonable allocation of the rent regulated apartments (since we have that and assuming politicians want to continue to screw landlords) will mean a time + income limit as well as work requirement. If there is no time limit or work requirement, you will just be spending limited rent regulated housing on retirees who can live much cheaper somewhere else on their social security and savings.

It’s really a shame that a supposedly world class city has such a terrible, terrible choice of mayoral candidates. I know I pick on Mamdani but none of his competitors are much better. Is it too much to ask for a reasonably intelligent, moderate to run for mayor, one who understands basic economics?

has anyone looked at where his apartment is, the building, etc. and then looked at what market rate apartments might be going for in comparison?

“has anyone looked at where his apartment is, the building, etc. and then looked at what market rate apartments might be going for in comparison”

This would a good place to start if I was running against him…

Although Cuomo would be prudent not to hammer away on this point too much. The WSJ alludes to the fact that Cuomo when he was acting as Governor of NY has a lot to blame to this mess (rent control). Apparently as Governor he strengthened many rent control provisions. And Mamdani and others are taking advantage of it. I don’t know what else you call wealthier New Yorkers holding onto rent control units. I recently read on a Nextdoor post in San Francisco about a couple looking for a rent controlled two bedroom unit for $5000. They said there was nothing available! Now they probably COULD rent a non-rent controlled two bedroom unit for $5000 per month but I suspect they want the rent controlled unit so they can live there forever and not deal with market rate rent in increases. Now if this couple can really afford $5000 per month in rent, is this who rent control is supposed to help?

Cuomo is the one who signed off on 2019 rent regulations. He wanted to cater to the left. The whole rent regulation is about votes. Can you blame the politicians? They want to get elected. This is how it is. Once the rent regulation law is passed, people are going to do their best to take advantage of the law. Just basic economics.

>> has anyone looked at where his apartment is, the building, etc. and then looked at what market rate apartments might be going for in comparison?

Good question. It seems to be a 1 BR in Astoria. And as far as I can tell, $2300 isn’t particularly cheap relative to market (unless he’s in a shiny glass building owrlooking the river or something):

https://www.realtor.com/apartments/Astoria_NY/beds-1-1

I just checked checked his home address. The apartment is conveniently located with good accessible to both subway lines (N/W, and /R/M). The rent will be a little bit higher than the average Astoria apartment.

He rented the apartment in 2018 at $2000 and the rent as of now is about $2300, while several 1bed room and 1bath apartments in the same building rented in the last couple of years was asking about $2700. Yes, I agree with @inonada that the apartment is not dirty cheap.

There is currently 1Bed1bath apartment in the building in the market asking for $3400 , with no takes, maybe it was typo, should be a 2bed1bath, or maybe a new broker is too aggressive, not sure what's going on there.

This?
https://streeteasy.com/building/32_15-35-street-astoria/f5?utm_campaign=rental_listing&utm_medium=share&utm_source=web&lstt=O8TpImjDn8178rNLhbKY3Fb6a92ce4985XWkEXpscwiIY55Vz5NSpthqhZnNqEy9_GYKervvXK_Cs_uT

Where and how he lives, unless it's blatantly illegal, is PMC pearl-clutching and jealousy.

If you take 'continue and/or modify rent control' off the table as a possible solution to solving NYC housing affordability, what, exactly, are the alternatives, and the relative pros and cons of those options?
* Developer subsidies to build units / incorporate low-income housing ?
* Rezoning to facilitate (and then mandate) high-density building in currently unbuildable areas ?
* Massive improvements in transportation time in/out of the city (subway, bus, car, rail) to access cheaper housing farther out ?
* Mandated minimum wage increases ?
* Changes in tax rates and structures for individuals / businesses / developers / somebody else?
* Mandating that all classic 6s and larger be occupied by no fewer than 7 people, 9 if they're on CPW or 5th Ave?
* ??

And which, if any, elected official in Albany has shown even a whisper of interest in acting?

Aaron,

Roughly 30-35% of rent is real estate taxes plus NYC has its own income tax. City govt keeps spending on social programs and keeps collecting non-working poor as that is what voters vote for. How do you lower real-estate taxes which long run do translate into new building decisions and rents?

DOB in NYC makes new building very difficult not just in terms of permits but enforcement related delays.

Why do we have to make NYC housing affordable? Is Paris housing affordable . Is London housing affordable? What about Indianapolis, Atlanta, or Gary, Indiana? Is the goal here that a barista at Starbucks is Greenwich Village should be able to afford housing 5 mins from her job. Seriously, different cities, towns, different costs of housing. If you can’t afford housing a short walk from your office, then it’s somehow the government responsibility to fix that? People can’t live farther out and commute, or God forbid, move somewhere else where housing is more affordable. If allowing high income people to continue to “squat” in rent controlled housing forever is really the solution, then by all means, have rent control on everything. Can’t wait to see how “affordable “ the city will be then

Then there is well-know goosing up of pensions via over-time etc by a sub-section of public employees. And we all know the NYC subway buildnig cost vs other developed counties. No fix to that.

Turbo, I agree that prime araes will never be cheap in a big city. However, it is good for NYC economy to have reasonable rents within subway commute so that businesses can have reasonable cost workers. Also, Govt employees, teachers etc need to live somewhere as we need them.

Now that would mean better subway availability, lower crime and better schools in certain areas. Not happening with the type of leaders voters vote for.

I’m not advocating for NO rent control, just reasonable rent control. For my healthcare, it is subsidized by the government based on income. Of course I can lie and get 100% subsidy. But you know what? I have to sign a declaration regarding my income. With penalties if I lie. And every year, the state checks my income from my IRS tax return. If I understated my income, a penalty is applied to next years taxes. And if I overstated my income, I get a refund. And indeed, in 2023 I received a refund became I paid too much for healthcare and last year I paid a penalty because I paid too little. Is it too much to ask for a similar income verification for anyone living in rent controlled housing? Every year, a tenant in a rent controlled unit must submit an estimate of their income and hard assets, under penalty of perjury. And then this is cross checked against their tax return. With hard assets, it maybe hard to verify. But isn’t this something reasonable to consider. I’m not 100% against rent control. And I don’t want NYC to become exclusively a playground for the rich. I agree having some reasonable housing options for the people who sell fruit on the streets, help me find things at Target and the porter in my building is not a bad idea. But can we also agree that at a certain income level, you really should not be continuing to live in a rent controlled unit, depriving more worthy people of that apartment. I don’t know Mamdani and his wife’s salary, but this is clearly not who rent control was meant for. And again, it’s not his fault, he is taking full advantage of the law, but the system that allows this is broken and just imposing MORE rent control with the same total lack of accountability is not going to make the city more affordable

What? Is there no asset test?
-----------------------------------------------------------
For my healthcare, it is subsidized by the government based on income.

I am all for mean-testing as well as some work requirement for rent regulated units.

Kettle, meet pot…

Turbo, What do you thing about mean testing, looking at income ex real estate depreciation, and work requirements for ACA/Obamacare? Seems like current law there is ripe for abuse.

So basically, every one does what they can get away with legally. That is why govt programs should have strict checks on eligibility but politician don't do that. I am guessing it is to please a certain constituency / ideology rather than the expertise.

I will be long gone before the rent regulation debate in NYC is settled and considered fair by people who don't have it.

I am sure many rent regulated tenants feel self-righteous in many different ways including their deserving the rent regulated apartment.

There should be work requirements for ACA/Obamacare, but volunteer work should certainly count. And obviously we need to use common sense and judgment, a single mother with four children or an 80 year old woman with MS should not have the sane work requirement as an able bodied, single 25 year old male. Even having a person attest to income/assets/working hours/searching for work, etc, etc, would give pause to some individuals thinking of abusing the system. Obviously I don’t think the majority abuse the system but I don’t think it’s too much to ask for more accountability. Like I said, for my subsidized healthcare, the government DOES check my tax return every year. Why can’t we check tax returns of people living in rent controlled units?

There should be asset test as starter for ACA as well rent-regulation.

But I don't make the laws. Just one person's opinion.

If Cuomo, who isn't really a New Yorker, would vacate that $8,200 2-bedroom, that would free it up for someone else so they wouldn't have to pay $9,000, which is what it looks like they're asking for 2-bedrooms in the building on StreetEasy

/ sarcasm off

Take a look at level of renovation in that $3,400 unit vs what every unit in that building had in 2018. Tell me what the market value today is of that renovation, not a substantially more valuable unit.

Why is it that the same people who harp on raising taxes will have people fleeing New York for Florida, etc fail to acknowledge that losing an RS apartment will cause a greater increase in outlays than a tax increase and therefore be MORE likely that the same person/people would be more likely to leave NY as a result?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_regulation_in_New_York

At least get the terminology correct. His apartment is stabilized, not controlled. In this day and age it's rent regulation in NYC, not 'control'. There are very few controlled apartments left here as it was a regulation enacted during WW2, along with strict wage regulations in order to curb inflation. Flinging around rent control as a term makes you sound like some kind of out of town rube.

@stache: I was thinking of general forms of rent controls, which include full price control, as well as means to stabilize rates, but I realize that 'rent control' is a particular term of art in NYC real estate. On that topic: "every one does what they can get away with legally": There is no 'getting away' with anything if it's legal: you are acting within the bounds of legal behavior.

Is it the city's job to ensure that there is 'affordable' housing for Starbuck's baristas? I'd suggest that the answer is no: it's the city's job to ensure that there is sufficient housing, using the very powerful tools they have: zoning, building & use codes, and taxation, and developers' jobs to determine the type and cost, whether Classic 9s or SROs. It's Brian Niccols' job to ensure that there are sufficient baristas behind the counter, which he can do by paying them enough to live next door, or flying them in with him from Newport Beach. Perhaps the 2040s will bring in a new era of multiple staff rooms and live-in staff?

I know this has fallen on deaf ears when I've posted it before, but how will more supply lower rents when landlords warehouse vacant units whenever there are enough to drive prices lower?

>>At least get the terminology correct. His apartment is stabilized, not controlled. In this day and age it's rent regulation in NYC, not 'control'.<<

Thank you Stache. There is a significant difference between 'controlled' and 'regulated' and it is eternally frustrating how many people seem to not know (or care about) the distinction.

>At least get the terminology correct. His apartment is stabilized, not controlled. In this day and age it's rent regulation in NYC, not 'control'.

Thank you!

>but I realize that 'rent control' is a particular term of art in NYC real estate.

Rent Control is a specific legal status in New York.

@30yrs I have at least heard of negative taxes based on unused properties. I don't know where they have been enacted or how successful they have been.

Some cities such as Toronto impose a vacancy tax/penalty. Every homeowner needs to fill out a survey every year attesting if their property is vacant, owner occupied, tenant occupied or other. If the property is found to be vacant for a certain period of time for no valid reason (for example, renovations), the owner can be imposed a very hefty fine. I don’t know how well it works in practice. Basically the government can’t audit/verify every property, there is just the “threat” your property maybe audited

Turbo,

NYC doesn't have a shortage of housing just cheaper housing in the areas people want to live.

What happens when a property is vacant and listed for sale? Lot of high-end properties will fit the bill.

What if the property is not in rentable condition by law as may be the case with a lot of rent regulated vacant properties? Can the govt force the owner to fix such properties?

I would assume if your home is listed for sale, vacant home tax/penalty does not apply. Now if you’re selling off-market and it’s not on the MLS, that maybe a little tricky. Not sure if property is not in rentable condition and in need of repairs. You could say it’s under renovation, but if your property is audited, you may have to prove you are actively making repairs. If you’re just sitting on a vacant property, not doing repairs, and unable or refusing to rent it out, that is where the law would apply. If discovered by the city, you are subject to the tax. You need to fix it up, move in or rent it out, or sell it. You can just sit on it and wait till the right time to sell or rent it. You can always lie to the city and cross your fingers that you don’t get audited. I’ve never personally heard of anyone getting audited.

Meant you CAN’T just sit on it.

Vancouver also has a vacant home tax/penalty. I believe San Francisco tried to introduce one, but I think it was quashed largely by the efforts of the real estate agent lobby

Personally I don’t like it. It’s your property, as long as you pay your taxes and aren’t using the property for illegal purposes, if you want to sit on it and wait for the right opportunity to sell, that’s you’re right. This is a natural consequence of overwhelming strong tenants rights in places like California, Toronto, etc. Tenants have so many rights it’s not surprising some landlords get fed up and just want to hold on and wait till the right moment to sell rather than lease to a tenant who may never leave or force the landlord to buy them our out to vacate the property. Having been a landlord in San Francisco/Oakland for 15 years, I readily understand why some landlords choose to sit on a property at least for some time

Wow, sounds Communist. You pay regular property taxes and then if the government doesn't approve how you use the property you pay more taxes ... is it even yours then?

“Wow, sounds Communist. You pay regular property taxes and then if the government doesn't approve how you use the property you pay more taxes ... is it even yours then?”

Good question…the “problem” this tax was trying to solve isn’t really a problem….I don’t think landlords in Toronto and Vancouver are warehousing hundreds of properties and thus causing a housing shortage. I think in Vancouver it was spurned by the fact that very wealthy Asian buyers, particularly from China, were buying mansions and using them for a handful of days/weeks per year. Basically, they were using the property as a bank for their money. But they pay their property taxes, and these mansions were never going to be rented out to working class people. So who is really being hurt here? If some European oligarch wants to buy a $50 million condo on Park Avenue and only use it 2 weeks per year, what exactly is the harm? I guess the government has to “do something “ to justify its existence and the rich is an easy target and attacking them is a sure fire way to rally voters and get re-elected. But it’s so pointless and stupid…

>> I would assume if your home is listed for sale, vacant home tax/penalty does not apply.

Yes, I have listed my 1BR for $100M but no one is seeming to bite. Oh well, no tax penalty for me!

>> sure fire way to rally voters and get re-elected. But it’s so pointless and stupid

That’s a great observation, and I hope it sinks in for you. Sadly, humans in general seem on a doom loop as a whole to never quite understand that, leaving it to the next generation to make all the same mistakes all over again.

History tells us that human behavior never changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyEiUNjMd_s

He is talking about his signature free buses at around 8 minute mark :-)
Also, campaign scavenger hunt? Is this guy a brilliant marketer, or what?

He is definitely charismatic and has tapped into the frustrations of many people. Sad to say, but he stands a good chance winning because the alternatives are just awful.

>Also, campaign scavenger hunt? Is this guy a brilliant marketer, or what?

Scavengers ... I haven't seen any video but seems like one of the other campaigns could do something combining socialism, scarcity and scavengering into an attack ad...

"As a high school junior, Zohran Mamdani promised free juice for students in his campaign for class vice president. He lost."

I am officially old - I can't stand hearing my nieces talk about voting for Mamdani. To me they are the epitome of spoiled limousine liberals who go too far. I will believe that they believe in socialism when their trust funds hit and they donate all the money to others.

It's their life and they have to find their way.