special kind of stupid

This article does point out some options for the guy from the other day who was looking for a $200k apartment.

'Noda I doubt very much that this is the reason/rationale for this faux pas but a certain very old school segment (like my father who would have been 95 now) contended that everything below 14th Street and east of Broadway was actually the "Lower East Side" (only Chinatown and Little Italy were accorded sub-designations) and even the term "East Village" was only a real estate marketing contrivance. For context however, my father never touched a computer, a cell phone or a microwave oven in his life and went to his grave still bemoaning the Dodgers move to LA and the increase of the subway fare over a nickle.

"(it's actually in Noho)"

(Actually, there IS no "Noho" ... north of Houston is the Village.)

My grandmother would have precisely pinpointed the neighborhood as "the East Side".

Liz, who knows, maybe they're turning hipster retro with naming on the Real Deal. I'm waiting for the Billyburg crowd to start wearing Brooklyn Dodgers gear. Or did that phase already pass?

"(Actually, there IS no "Noho" ... north of Houston is the Village.)"

He who wins writes history.

If SE calls it Noho, it's Noho. And you, my friend, are now living in Hudson Heights (if I'm recalling correctly), not Washington Heights. Also, note that it's called Washington Heights, not Kynphausen Heights:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Heights,_Manhattan

So would mine Alan but my father had assimilated to the point that he had to admit there was such a place as the UES in that he was actually there to visit museums and even took a class at Hunter after retirement. I would not be shocked to know that the only reason my grandmother ever went above 14th street (east or west) was when Klein's had the annex between 15th and 16th street. (I take that back they probably had to go to Grand Central to get the train "to the mountains"...but I'd guess that was it).

Noda, Spike Lee popularized Brooklyn Dodger gear in the late 80s-90s in tribute to Jackie Robinson as well as his own roots. See his character Mookie in "Do The Right Thing". This preceded Billyburg by several generations of hipsters, I think they were still in Manhattan at that point.

Yah, you're right. Great movie. Must have seen it at least a dozen times, but was nowhere near NYC at that time, so didn't really notice.

BTW, I like your nickname for me.

In/Liz: there are all these great NYC movies/TV shows I didn't appreciate in their fullness until I moved here.

Even the mawkish "Love Story". Ditto "Staying Alive".

I'm pretty sure the only train that ever went to The Mountains left from Hoboken ... but mostly it was a very cutthroat (possibly literally) bus route, with lots of forced mergers and plenty of participation from The Syndicate.

nyc10023, I think that warrants a separate list-thread, to go with the venues and songs.

nada, noho is noho. but is hell's kitchen clinton? and is sohell (otherwise known as penn station) really chelsea?

That's funny -- I had never heard of sohell, kinda apropos.

sohell's excellent -- very Dantesque.

Alan and Liz: Remember The Garden Cafeteria? Lower East Side, according to my grandmother. She got off the boat and lived on Delancy Street, where she had a candy store, with a card game in the back room.
We went to Chinatown for "Chinks" (very un-p.c. now, but not in the 1960s).
They went "Up to the mountains". Nobody referred to it as "upstate".
The beatniks and then the hippies lived in Greenwich Village. No "east" or "west".

Was that club; "The World" located at the former Garden Cafeteria site?

No, http://dbellel.blogspot.com/2007/12/garden-cafeteria.html

The World was on E. 1st Street, in what had been a synagogue, but I don't know if that immediately preceded the World, or if it was built as a synagogue. It felt more like a ballroom space, but the structures are similar.

Yo who you calling a hippie? Hardly descriptive of my group (although I guess we did have the s,d, r&r thing in common) that was native to the Village.
Actually the technical term for pre-enlightenment Chinese dining was "eating Chinks". I really cringe now to think that was common usage. Not that it explains or justifies it but its funny to think that Asian kids were the one ethnicity I didn't know growing up. It wasn't until I was 16 and working at D'Agistino's that I met a couple of kids from Chinatown who were also working there after school. Fortunately, if I had kids today they would benefit from much better diversity than being one of the only Jewish kids in an Italian/Irish neighborhood.

The big waves of immigration were 1880-1920, which favored European groups; and post 1965 or so, which didn't ... that's the main reason you didn't know many Chinese kids when you were growing up, not because of the Go Club, nor because of district lines between Chinatown and Litlitly/Village.

I'm not so certain your last sentence is true, though, Liz.

I know about the immigration waves. In fact the first didn't end "naturally" it was curtailed by an exclusionary act of 1925 (maybe '26) which was a time of resurgent nativist and KKK sentiment in the country, meant to stop the influx of Catholics, Jews and other undesirables. (Had we not had those laws on the books a significant number of Holocaust victims could have potentially been saved.) The new law was passed in 1965 which is when Asian immigration became a major factor in NYC. Thanks for "outing" me as someone who might have had contact with the world prior to the impact of post-1965 immigration policy Alan!

I guess its really hard to say what I would do IF I had kids since I don't but I'd like to think that I would make ethnic and economic diversity a priority in their growing up experience. I don't have much patience for those parents who want to give their kids a "rich city experience" but then only want them attending schools that are 80% white, 10% Asian and 100% upper middle class... and who aim to do as effective job shielding their offspring from true urban grit as if they lived in Great Neck or Greenwich