BPC or FiDi

BPC has a little more of a neighborhood or residential feel. While FIDI will get there in time it still feels like lots of office buildings converted. If you are on the permiter of FIDI near the water or BPC i think that is your best bet. BPC is not dead after 5 because people live there and they are out an about, still think FIDI is not as populated.
I live in BPC after living all over the city (started at 88 and york!!) and was concerned it would be too quiet... but i LOVE LOVE LOVE it!!! And yes...sssoooo easy to get around.

BPC to me is the most boring part of Manhattan... by far. The quiet isolation one is talking about could also be known as DEAD. If you want that, what the hell are you doing living in Manhattan?

BPC isn't dead after 5... its just dead period.

FiDi has some work to do, but its quickly becoming a full blown round the clock manhattan neighborhood. And I also think the housing stock is much better than the boring (or horribly ugly) stuff in BPC.... lots of pretty nice conversions.

And, it certainly more alive than BPC late night... just check out Stone Street.

I agree. BPC is booooorrrrrrinnnnnggggg.

BPC and FIDI as well as anywhere in city can be condidered"boring" .it depends on wether you are single/married/have children at school age...the city has so many great options for everyone...and I will take NYC-Manhattan over the suburbs anyday

sorry for all the typos...

> anywhere in city can be condidered"boring"

If you're bored in (the good parts of) the city, why on earth do you spend the money to live here?
Point is, thats nonsense.

> and I will take NYC-Manhattan over the suburbs anyday

Agreed.... but in my view BPC pretty much is a suburb... which is why I'd take almost any other part of Manhattan over it.

If its Manhattan one really wants, why on earth go to BPC, which is about as un-manhattan you can get on the island.

> .it depends on wether you are single/married/have children at school age

Lively parts of the city don't depend on how old YOU are.

The places where kids determine whether or not there is life are generally called... suburbs.

Oh come on somewhereelse, to each there own.

Conceptually I hear the point "why live in the city if you want quiet and a good place for the kids - just move to the burbs" but in practice this isn't true.

If you live in the suburbs your commute to work is worse. Your kids are less likely to be able to walk to school if they are school age (lots of parents let their 8 year olds walk to school in BPC. When you do want to go out to eat, the options aren't nearly equivalent to BPC - where you can walk to Tribeca in 10 minutes or hop in a cab and be in a lot of other great areas in a similar amount of time. A lot of people just like the walking culture in general - and, if you live in Battery Park City, you can in fact walk to the grocery score, your kids to school, to the movies, to the Seaport, into Tribeca. You can get your dry cleaning delivered; you can order delivery; you can order Fresh Direct. You do in fact have MOST of the conveniences of the city.

I grant it's not for everybody - but I "get" it. Frankly, it's not for me even though I have kids - I find it a little sterile, I'm not a fan of hi-rises. But that's me. Why are you so critical of everybody's choices?

Don't sugar coat it somewhereelse, why don't you tell us how you really feel?
Clearly you don't live here, and that's fine. But maybe it might be helpful, Movinup, to hear from some of the people that do and can speak to what the neighborhood offers. There was a recent thread about this so I don't think I need to add to anymore of what's already been said better by others. See here: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/19757-battery-park

both are dead...these people you are talking to are not mistaken

in all honesty, i bash FiDi as much as the next person...but i will give credit where credit is due...stone street on a friday night is a great time until about 11p.m. but after that and then into saturday? back to dead again. it still holds true that dry cleaners, other stores close on the weekends.

i understand why people move to BPC or Fidi, but i dont understand those who are saying that FiDi is this up and coming area. converting old office buildings into what essentially becomes a post-college dormitory, does not constitute up and coming to me

I'm not sure somewhereelse has ever lived in a suburb. I get that you could call BPC suburban (which is actually the draw for some people), but to actually compare living there to living in a NY suburb is laughable.

Even though I personally am not a fan of either BPC and FiDi, I get it. These places are in fact CHEAPER than other parts of Manhattan and family friendly (because they are cheap so people can get bigger places, because they have good schools and parks).

Do I think FiDi and Battery Park are ever going to command a premium over other parts of Manhattan in the way the West Village, SoHo, and UES west of Park do? Probably not. Just because FiDi is a little dark and I agree they old-office conversion is not naturally as graceful a conversion as the loft conversion of SoHo and Tribeca. Battery Park is a little less accessible and is not intersting in terms of architecture. Do I think FiDi is a great investment in the near term? Probably not because of the condo glut, although I think the retail will get batter. But do I see why somebody with a family would move there to get 2x the space they would in the West Village? Sure.

People have a hard time understanding that nightlife becomes a LOT less important when you can't just go out when you feel like it (if you are hiring a babysitter anyway it's not a lot of effort to get in a taxi). I have a kid, and I still go out (something I wouldn't do in the suburbs), but this is my general feeling. You can say "why live in the city" at that point - but there are plenty of other reasons to live in the city other than access to nice bars, and besides, a 10 minute cab right to nice bars is not the same as an hour long train ride. Hell, even when I was single and lived in the Village, I regularly took cabs to go out in other neighorhoods.

winston i think your points are valid, but its not only about nightlife. it obviously depends where you actually live, but not being able to walk 20 steps out your door on a sunday morning to grab a drink/do some minor shopping is a real disadvantage

i would rather live in Brooklyn Heights or North Park Slope then in BPC or FiDi. You get lots of nice restaurants, more established neighborhoods and close enough to Manhattan to walk there, at least from BH. as to 10 minutes in Tribeca, South Street Seaport, etc, you're crazy. it takes almost that much time just to cross west side highway most of the time. To walk the length of BPC will take about 15 minutes or more.

"Oh come on somewhereelse, to each there [sic] own."

Yes, and some folks like the suburbs. Or Boston. Or Kansas. But its a bit batty to pay Manhattan prices for something you can get a lot cheaper elsewhere.

Oh come on somewhereelse, to each there own.

Conceptually I hear the point "why live in the city if you want quiet and a good place for the kids - just move to the burbs" but in practice this isn't true.

> If you live in the suburbs your commute to work is worse.

Thats a lousy generalization, and often not true at all.

> Your kids are less likely to be able to walk to school if they are school age
> (lots of parents let their 8 year olds walk to school in BPC.

So, lots of city kids go to their local high schools, huh?

And you're really claiming thats in the suburbs its tough to walk to local schools. Man, have you ever been to the suburbs?

> When you do want to go out to eat, the options aren't nearly equivalent to BPC

Often they are better. BPC is absolutely lousy for this.

> where you can walk to Tribeca in 10 minutes or hop in a cab and be in a lot of
> other great areas in a similar amount of time.

Now you're talking about cabs and leaving the neighborhood. Thats quite a positive for a neighborhood?

> A lot of people just like the walking culture in general - and, if you live in Battery Park City,
> you can in fact walk to the grocery score, your kids to school, to the movies

Seriously, have you ever been to a suburb?

> , to the Seaport

OK, now we're getting funny. A walk across the entire island to get to a tourist trap is your idea of an amenity?

> You can get your dry cleaning delivered; you can order delivery; you can order Fresh Direct. You do
> in fact have MOST of the conveniences of the city.

Dude, do you realize that you've basically been describing BROOKLYN.

lol

Seriously, fresh direct, cabs, the seaport, dry cleaning... this is your idea of Manhattan? Really?

> Why are you so critical of everybody's choices?

This from the guy completely critical of the suburbs... interesting

"I'm not sure somewhereelse has ever lived in a suburb. I get that you could call BPC suburban (which is actually the draw for some people), but to actually compare living there to living in a NY suburb is laughable."

My folks moved to the burbs... (and, amazingly, don't have to get on the tractor to get to the store, as winston suggested...)...

but BPC is certainly closer to the burbs in my book than the rest of Manhattan.

"People have a hard time understanding that nightlife becomes a LOT less important when you can't just go out when you feel like it (if you are hiring a babysitter anyway it's not a lot of effort to get in a taxi). I have a kid, and I still go out (something I wouldn't do in the suburbs), but this is my general feeling."

Thats all fine.... but thats also the same rationalization folks use to move to the suburbs...

" You can say "why live in the city" at that point - but there are plenty of other reasons to live in the city other than access to nice bars"

Yes, people, culture, nice restaurants, etc... none of which are in BPC.

> and besides, a 10 minute cab right to nice bars

"is not the same as an hour long train ride."

Sure, but nobody is talking about an hour long train ride. If you have to make up bogus comparisons to make yourself feel better, one wonders...

BTW, it will take a cab twice that in rush hour just to get out of BPC! The battery / underpass traffic is insane!

"Hell, even when I was single and lived in the Village, I regularly took cabs to go out in other neighorhoods."

But you never went out in the village? I would have told you to have saved your money then, too...

Did you take a cab to get a decent bagel? To get brunch? To see an adult face?

"it obviously depends where you actually live, but not being able to walk 20 steps out your door on a sunday morning to grab a drink/do some minor shopping is a real disadvantage"

well said...

my parents suburb has better access to brunch places or minor shopping in a few blocks...

"i would rather live in Brooklyn Heights or North Park Slope then in BPC or FiDi. You get lots of nice restaurants, more established neighborhoods and close enough to Manhattan to walk there, at least from BH. as to 10 minutes in Tribeca, South Street Seaport, etc, you're crazy. it takes almost that much time just to cross west side highway most of the time. To walk the length of BPC will take about 15 minutes or more."

I think you hit it on the head. Paying Manhattan prices for not really manhattan doesn't make sense to me...... go for Brooklyn if its a cab you want anyway. Hell, you can walk to winston's favorite - the seaport - probably in less time from the edhe of BH!

neither

Actually I'm not critical of the suburbs - just stating a disadvantage, which is commute, which most people who live in the suburbs will admit. The reality is though any suburban commute is usually close an hour by the time you get to the station in the suburb, get to grand central or penn station, and get to your office. I work right next to Grand Central and even the guys who work in Scarsdale admit its an hour door to door (and that's if you work near Grand Central). The train from Pelham - the CLOSEST suburb - is 28 minutes, which means it takes 40 minutes just to grand cental assuming a 10 minute walk to the station, plus getting there a couple minutes early. And that's the closest suburb to the nearest point in Manhattan, so, yeah, I think an hour is a reasonable estimate in general. Plus you're a slave to the schedule (which never runs on weekends).

As far as being able to walk everywhere in the suburbs too - this is just not true. Even in the so-called walkable suburbs, to get a nice house, you pay through the nose to live within walking distance of anything. And "walking distance" is usually a mile or two, which by Manhattan standards is a long way (Spring Street to 14th street - entirely different neighborhoods - is a mile). You can reach Tribeca even from the farthest parts of BPC in 20 minutes. Also, the more walkable suburbs tend to be places like Montclair or Larchmont which are farther from NYC (Larchmont because it's a ways past Pelham and Montclair because you either sit in traffic or take the train to Penn Station.

I never said I didn't go out in the Village - of course I did, but I still regularly went out of the neighborhood as well - but just making the point that getting in a cab to go out is not a huge deal. And if you're in a phase of life where you aren't hitting the bars every night, probably doesn't make sense to pay for that advantage.

As far as paying "prime Manhattan prices" - that's the point: you're not. It's about the same as Brooklyn Heights (which also has poor public schools and nothing spectacular on the retail front). Park Slope is cheaper, but that's a hike because the F train is a disaster. Pretty sure if you work in the Financial District you can get to work a lot quicker than you can from the suburbs. That's just stupid. If you work in Midtown these areas are a tougher sell.

And last time I checked, this is NYC - most people don't go out to dinner during "rush hour" unless they are leaving directly from work (in which case you are not leaving from BPC in which case this is not an issue). So I'm not sure the ride to a nice dinner in the West Village or SoHo is an hour.

Listen - I don't even like BPC or FiDi for the reasons I said before; I personally find it a little sterile, but I'm not critical of those who chose it (nor am I of the suburbs for that matter, but also not for me). Everybody has their own situation so why call them stupid?

Yes, I get it... all those subways you have in BPC. Oh, wait.
I love how folks add 30 minutes to everyone else's commutes, and subtract it from their own!

Again, Brooklyn sounds like a much better choice for you...

"As far as being able to walk everywhere in the suburbs too - this is just not true."
Now you're just going with strawmen. Who said walk everywhere? You can walk to Central Park?

When you have to resort to ludicrous comparisons...

"Even in the so-called walkable suburbs, to get a nice house, you pay through the nose to live within walking distance of anything

Hmmm... that house costs, what, half the BPC apartment.

Or, again, Brooklyn. You'd be paying a LOT less than BPC.

If they're paying through the nose, you're getting punched in it daily.

" And if you're in a phase of life where you aren't hitting the bars every night, probably doesn't make sense to pay for that advantage."

What's funny here is, you are admitting to the logic, yet not adhering to it. If you are not going out frequently, WHY ARE YOU PAYING TO BE NEAR IT!

You have basically admitted my point... if you're not taking advantage, and you don't go often... WHY ARE YOU PAYING EXTRA FOR IT?

> It's about the same as Brooklyn Heights

BPC about the same as BH. Now you're just insane.

"Everybody has their own situation so why call them stupid?"

I don't know.... you tell us... you're the only person on this thread to have called anyone stupid...

I called the argument that the commute from the suburbs to manhattan to BPC "stupid" but did not attack anybody's choices.

Anyway, on prices in Brooklyn Heights.

http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Brooklyn_Heights-Brooklyn/5048/market-trends/

Average price per square foot = $711

But this doesn't tell the whole story. So much of the inventory in Brooklyn Heights is floor through brownstones or whole brownstones or walk ups in need of rennovation. If you don't think you're generally paying AT LEAST $800-$900 psf for newly rennovated places in Brooklyn heights with a doorman, you're fooling yourself. I spent some time looking there before settling on Harlem so I am very familiar with the inventory there.

If you look at where deals are hapenning in BPC and FiDi now, most are in roughly the same range. This wasn't true 3 years ago, and not all sellers are realistic, but it's true.

It's also true you can find a place in Brooklyn Heights that's not rennovated and that's a walkup for $600-$700 psf. But it comes back to the point of "what you're paying for" - convenience. To get the same convenience in Brooklyn Heights, the cost is basically the same.

Not to mention the public school in Brooklyn Heights remain mediocre, despite recent improvement. So it's not a stretch to say a family looking for a rennovated place with the convenience of a doorman can live just a cheap in Battery Park City.

I never said BPC is convenient to subways - but it makes sense for families with parents who work in the Financial District (and for most of the families I meet down there this is the case). Convenience is about a specific situation. Lots of people work downtown, making BPC work for them. Working near Grand Central makes Westchester work for many.

As for "why be in the city" - we've already explained the reasons are far more than being near bars. You laughed at them, but they are real.

Nothing wrong with Brooklyn Heights either. There are compelling reasons to live there too. But the thousands of people who have chosen to live in BPC did so for a reason. Doesn't mean it's for everybody - not for me. To each their own.

Are BPC deals still locked up because of bank lending freezes due to potential pilot increases? I've looked a few buildings recently where there is no activity for several months.

Periods of illiquidity like that seem to be a problem for BPC v. FiDi.

I lived in the West Village for nearly 20 years before moving to FiDi 4 years ago. I wouldn't move back. I have twice the space for 2/3 the price and I don't have to deal with all the Marc Jacobs chicks in high heels yapping on cell phones while walking their dog to Magnolia Bakery. FiDi reminds me of the West Village when I moved there in terms of community: A diverse collection of people, some young and single, some older who've been here for 30 years, families. The streets are not packed in the evening, but go in any decent restaurant (from Ise, one of the best Japanese in the city, to Harry's, Acqua and Les Halles), and you'll find plenty of company You won't find a lot of boutiques (sure, there's Thomas Pink and Hermes, etc.), but you also have Century 21. Duane Reade's open 24/7 and there are three grocery stores within blocks. Every major subway line deposits you blocks from your door (easy to get upper east/upper west or Brooklyn). And in the warm months, you have the Elevated Acre, Battery Park, Battery Park City and two Water Taxi beaches at your door (Seaport and Governor's Island). I briefly considered BPC but the pilot issues and substantially higher carrying costs were negatives, as was the seemingly small but, in reality, difficult leap across the West Side Highway. (And once on the other side, it's kind of a hike to what's great about FiDi). You're choice, of course, but I find those who dismiss FiDi on this board often aren't familiar enough with it to make an accurate judgment.

"I called the argument that the commute from the suburbs to manhattan to BPC "stupid" but did not attack anybody's choices."

But then you also accused others of calling things stupid... when you were the only one who did so.

"So much of the inventory in Brooklyn Heights is floor through brownstones or whole brownstones or walk ups in need of rennovation. If you don't think you're generally paying AT LEAST $800-$900 psf for newly rennovated places in Brooklyn heights with a doorman, you're fooling yourself. I spent some time looking there before settling on Harlem so I am very familiar with the inventory there."

Of course, you COMPLETELY leave out the fact the the maintenance is INCREDIBLY higher in BPC. And its got lots of dated inventory now too (those ugly brown towers, ouch). And the brownstones you're talking about have backyards and open space are are, by definition, prewar (which goes for more).

"It's also true you can find a place in Brooklyn Heights that's not rennovated and that's a walkup for $600-$700 psf. But it comes back to the point of "what you're paying for" - convenience. To get the same convenience in Brooklyn Heights, the cost is basically the same."

Well, now you're shifting the argument back again.... you're saying you're paying more, but its getting something in return.

When many folks have argued that you *aren't* getting anything extra in return, Brooklyn will actually be more convenient in some ways... and, as you're noting... cheaper.

> I never said BPC is convenient to subways

Which we noted is a huge downside, unlike Brooklyn Heights.... meaning BH would be worth more on the same "convenience" scale you're talking about.

> Convenience is about a specific situation.

Well, if you want to play that game, yes, everyone has specific needs and neighborhoods may or may not meet them.

But, overall, BPC is way overpriced given what you're getting... not really Manhattan, deader than close Brooklyn, less convenient than close Brooklyn...

"I briefly considered BPC but the pilot issues and substantially higher carrying costs were negatives, as was the seemingly small but, in reality, difficult leap across the West Side Highway. (And once on the other side, it's kind of a hike to what's great about FiDi)."

Agreed...

>>> Convenience is about a specific situation.

http://nymag.com/realestate/neighborhoods/2010/65355/

>>> Well, if you want to play that game, yes, everyone has specific needs and neighborhoods may or may not meet them.

How is that a game? That's been my point the whole time!!! For some people - based on their lifestyle and where they work - BPC is very convenient. This doesn't mean it's true for all people. That's why I've been saying "it works for some people"

And I am not wrong about the prices being relatively close for doorman inventory. Yes, a backyard is fabulous, but you don't have access to that in most floor throughs (only 1 of 4 floors will have access typically). Prewar is great - I myself PERSONALLY prefer prewar to high rises - but walk up prewars tend to go for less per square foot than doorman condo buildings across all of the boroughs .... that's just the market. If you're buying a whole brownstones - one that's rennovated and has central A/C - you are not paying $700 psf. Trust me - I like Brooklyn Heights and I looked and found that a rennovated townhouse was closer to $1000 psf (which is why I bought a townhouse in Harlem where I got it for less than half that, all in; public schools are mediocre in both places and our commutes to work were shorter from Harlem). On nymag's pricing of neighorhoods, BPC is only 3 back behind Brooklyn Heights. That qualifies as "about the same" in my book.

Winston, give it up. swe has a reputation of being all-knowing on every topic and can never admit he is wrong even when he is giving his "opinion" BPC works for lots of folks as a neighborhood for lots of different reasons. The positives and negatives have been discussed but dont get dragged into any discourse with this dweeb. he is the classic nerd, the classic ahole and lots of folks here know it. he has changed his handle numerous times to run away from his history...ugh. no point in responding to a two dimensional caricature.

"How is that a game? That's been my point the whole time!!! For some people - based on their lifestyle and where they work - BPC is very convenient. This doesn't mean it's true for all people. That's why I've been saying "it works for some people" "

Except you play the game only one sided. The other way, you make completely off-base general stements.

Like this one:
"If you live in the suburbs your commute to work is worse."

Again, you use one set of logic when it fits you, and then switch when it doesn't.

OBVIOUSLY everyone's individidual scenario matters... but when you make outlanding claims, expect them to get refuted.

"Yes, a backyard is fabulous, but you don't have access to that in most floor throughs (only 1 of 4 floors will have access typically). "

A large chunk of the ones I've been in (and I lived in Brooklyn) have it off 2, a short few steps down from Parlor. Also, many of them are duplex...

Wait, rangersfan is talking about OTHER people being know it alls... and not admitting they're wrong.

I love it!

Same guy who changed his story 4x on his bogus TARP claim, EVEN TODAY, months late, still not admitting his mistake (yet we have a whole thread on it... but he ignored the post that was pointed out).

OH my lord... rangersfan, thanks for the hearty laugh.

At least you are funny in your mistakes.

99/100 times, I think it's generally reaonsably fair to say that one's commute to work if one lives in the suburbs is longer than if one lives in Manhattan (assuming one works in Manhattan). Pretty much all of the stars have to align right to make the commute shorter from the suburbs, as a general rule. Are there exceptions? Of course. But this is a major reason people live in the city. Especially for two income families, this is often the deciding factor.

Yes, if you work right near Grand Central and can buy a house in Pelham or Scarsdale that's a 5 minute walk to the train station, maybe your commute is shorter than from BPC. But a lot of BPC people I know work downtown so probably not for those folks. So that's why I said "your commute to work is longer" - maybe I should have put "likely to be" but now we're splitting hairs.

The only thing that might have a comparable commute is Brooklyn Heights (although it's hard to beat walking to work) or Dumbo, which are at best moderately cheaper, and have worse public schools. Cobble Hill and Park Slope have good schools but are served by the F train which is at least 25 minutes to Manhattan (and the waits can be dreadful).

Why do you have such a big problem with other peeople's choices?

"99/100 times, I think it's generally reaonsably fair to say that one's commute to work if one lives in the suburbs is longer than if one lives in Manhattan (assuming one works in Manhattan)."

Not only is that a generalization, thats painfully wrong. 99/100? Not even close...

Not to mention, you leave out Jersey City / Hoboken, which have great access to downtown.

> Why do you have such a big problem with other peeople's choices?

I asked exactly the same of you...

I love BPC, the north end part of it. It's quite convenient despite what other folks say who don't live here. To each his own. :)

Doesn't Leonardo DiCaprio have a unit in Riverhouse?

"quiet" and "feel quiet" are different thing. BPC can be quiet, but FIDI feels quiet. and that feeling can be quite depressing in a cold dark winter night coming home from a bad workday... well, depends, but I tend to agree with your husband

Neither neighboorhood is dead after 5pm anymore and FiDi is becoming more residential. Those who make that comment do not know what they are talking about. I have been in FiDi for just over 3 years (across the street from BPC) and more and more people are moving in making it a livelier neighboorhood. Even the gym on Wall Street now has weekend classes that are packed. It is a good choice movinup1. Hope you can convince your husband.

>>> Not only is that a generalization, thats painfully wrong. 99/100? Not even close...

Um. Okay ... it's a pretty fair generalization. Obviously it's a generalization but it's a fair one for most cases.

>>> Not to mention, you leave out Jersey City / Hoboken, which have great access to downtown.

http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Hoboken-New_Jersey/market-trends/

Average cost for real estate in Hoboken is $740 psf (more than Brooklyn Heights on average, which we all know is due to the inventory point I made earlier). Everybody knows to be near the train station, it's significantly more. Plus, taking the Path train in the morning is not the same as walking. Lastly, the public schools are worse. That's why you see lots of babies and toddlers in Hoboken but fewer elementary school aged kids.

You're grasping at straws now. Clearly, there is a compelling reason for some people to live in BPC. So is there to live in Hoboken or Brooklyn Heights for others.

Re: Battery Park City:

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100325/REAL_ESTATE/100329885

Real estate is an investment whether you like it or not.

Once again... another thread out of comtrol and not very helpful to the OP.
As I have said I love it, but my advise would be to book a room in a hotel and see how YOU like it. Not every area is for every person.

In terms of being helpful to the OP - I think emma63's comment was the most valuable. I live in FIDI and if you limit your analysis to the area between Water and Broadway, and between Fulton and Wall (the area most people seem to live, and the area I know best) I think you have BPC beat for the average person.

I lived in fidi 10 years ago, moved to Brooklyn, and then back to fidi last year. The infrastructure is not just "coming" - it's there. The neighborhood has everything I want (as mentioned by emma), it's lively, filled with families, and has good food. I'd argue that it has as much in the 5 block by 3 block area I mentioned as ANY 5x3 in New York. Especially if you add the shopping at the seaport (while touristy, nice to have a few simple clothing stores when you need them) and century 21, as well as, of course, J&R. Expand to include Front Street, Peck Slip, and Stone Street and you've got far better options in a 5 minute walk than most New Yorkers. Most weekends I don't go North of Chambers Street and I consider that a very good thing.

That said, BPC can be beautiful, the Husdon River walk clearly beats the East River for strolling, and I am thrilled to have it nearby. The free ferrys to IKEA (if that's your thing) and Gov. Island make the east river competitive.

I also agree with rangersfan that you should stop arguing with somewhereelse, who is baiting you (well) and being a jerk for no reason I can figure out.

"Um. Okay ... it's a pretty fair generalization. Obviously it's a generalization but it's a fair one for most cases. "

Yes, as I said, you are quite the hypocrite.... made up generalizations are only ok when you make them.

99/100... really....

"In terms of being helpful to the OP - I think emma63's comment was the most valuable. I live in FIDI and if you limit your analysis to the area between Water and Broadway, and between Fulton and Wall (the area most people seem to live, and the area I know best) I think you have BPC beat for the average person. "

agreed...

i am the op and i agree emma63's first hand comments about the FiDi were a nice summary of the Fidi.those comments were however, what i WANT to hear because i liked the apartment and i want to live there. it's convincing someone else to agree with me that is challenging, and why i posted this thread to begin with, to give me the ammunition i need to say hey people do live there and do love it.!this is why i'm looking for others opinions and i do appreciate everyone's input on this weigh in. the one thing i did learn about manhattanites is that you're all "neighborhood loyal" you like where you live! and you chose to live there for reasons that work for you. I didn't mean to "pit" anyone against the other and i appreciate everyones opinion and take it all into consideration. it is tough finding the perfect apt that meets everything on a wishlist and when you realize ok i have to compromise than it becomes what things are more compromisable than others. i guess i will keep searching.

my advice woyld still be to stay in a hotel down here for a few days and "live" down here. I had th same concerns as yur husband but i was fortunate to have a friend that lived here so i was able to give it a test drive before taking the plunge...
and while there are those of us who cannot see past their own neighborhood there are those who know that every part of the city has it's own charm, it's own ups and downs- depends where you are in life and what you want.
good luck!

thanks re2009, great advice. that is actually what we have been doing. we are currently renting a pied d terre in the lincoln center area. we love it and the bldg but we are looking for a bigger apt and don't like the ones available in our bldg. we have been going out with and without a realtor and have been exploring different neighborhoods. you hit it right on the head, what i love about manhattan is the fact that it is an island but a huge one at that, and every neighborhood has it's own incredible vibe. renting instead of buying has been a great arrangement for us especially since we originally were looking to purchase and didn't even consider renting. turned out to be the best option and gives us the flexibility to explore. what i have noticed is that everything is a cab or subway away and every neighborhood has its little treasures/finds. there is no reason to have everything at your doorstep. convenient yes but who wants to just be exclusive to one neighborhhood in such a vibrant city with so much to see and do in many areas of the city.i'm looking forward to the warm weather to spend enitre days and nights in the different neighborhoods and get the feel of each one. we only started renting since the fall so haven't be able to explore and enjoy each neighborhood with the days being cold and short. again i appreciate everyones input. :) thanks

great links btw in this thread paticularly the neighborhood meter!