Renovating a pre-war: high-end materials?
Started by EEEE1
over 15 years ago
Posts: 69
Member since: Dec 2006
Discussion about
An open question. I am having our pre-war classic 6 gut renovated. Some walls will come down. Floors will be leveled. New molding and baseboards. New doors installed. New kitchen and baths. Anyone have any suggestions/guides to material selectoin? For example: -- how should new walls be constructed? what kind of sheetrock or drywall? -- replacement molding: what at the material choices? -- doors? what types? what to look for? -- types of wood floors? Underlay of floors? -- any other helpful suggesetions on materials to use/avoid? very broad question, but if anyone has any ideas they'd be appreciated.
1) There is "green" drywall that is supposed to off-gas a little less. There have been issues lately with Chinese-made sheet rock
2) Go to Dykes Lumber catalog - prewar, so you have high ceilings, go for a high baseboard. I like the primed poplar myself, others swear by MDF everywhere
3) Solid-core, there are quite a few mfrs. I like the one panel or 6 horizontal panel look. Primed is good enough.
4) C6, just replace what's there. There should be a substantial subfloor. Formal areas, herringbone or angled parquet, bedrooms strip oak
'Course you could always replace with plaster ...
Some broad questions, here are a few very basic observations:
(i) Walls: (a) Use 5/8" sheetrock, and insullate all walls, even interior walls (four sound). You can use the "green" drywall if it makes you fell better, but under tape, primer and two coats of paint the good old american stuff (US Gypsum, Georgia Pacific) won't be a problem. (b) Steel studs are easier, cheaper, faster, don't rot and often more convenient for fishing wires years later, but not so convenient if you are hanging heavy objects on the wall.
(ii) Molding: What nyc10023 says. The MDF also is easier if you are leaving any existing walls that are not straight (bends easier).
(iii) I spent a lot of time on doors for a house. No question, go with solid core. We did Simpson, but in a five panel horizontal -- little more contemporary than the six panel.
(iv) Underlayment: Too early to tell. More than likely, the existing subfloor is intact. If you are tearing everything apart, you might investigate whether you can get some insullation in the floor for sound deadening. Flooring choices have been covered here repeatedly. It is a matter of personal choice, so long as the choice is solid hardwood, not engineered or any fleeting fads that you will hate in a few years (see, e.g., zebra wood, flamed oak, bleached, etc.)
Mouldings: Dykes has all the selection you need unless you are doing some ridiculously expensive custom stuff. I used MDF ("medium density fiberboard") on crowns, door frames ("casings"), and bases, but I am very easy on my apartment and don't bang into stuff. MDF has the advantage of not expanding and contracting,and a year after moving in I have NOT ONE split seam that needs patching. The negative is that MDF is softer than wood and can chip more readily. Therefore, you might consider MDF for crowns ( I think you are insane not to) and wood for bases. Door casings are a toss up: they tend to split A LOT if you use wood so MDF is better for not having to deal with cracks at seams, but you can't have kids smashing into them with toys if you want them to hold up.
Doors: Also look at Trustiile doors at Dykes Lumber. Trustile also has a hard to navigate website. You can customize doors as much as you like. I did MDF single panel doors of a substantial 1-3/4" thickness. They feel like lead and give a real feel of luxe living. I could have been happy with the 1-3/8" thinner versions though--the thicker ones were overkill (I may have got the exact thickness chioces off by an 1/8"). You choose the panel type, moulding around the panel (called "sticking") and the number of panels. If you are painting them, I'd do MDF. If staining them, then obviously you need wood. Realize these things get REALLY heavy fast and depending upon size will require 3 hinges which increases costs. Don't forget to order really nice hinges to match your doorknobs--something like polished nickel. Samuel Heath makes some incredible doorknobs that make you go "wow" everytime you touch them. Check out Baxter also. Simon's Hardware has them all.
Walls -- If you really want prewar quality for new walls, use blueboard and then skim-coat them. Your contractor should know what this means.
Doors -- I prefer the visible joinery of solid wood doors (and kitchen cabinets). Veneered MDF doors can be difficult to distinguish, at least if painted. I don't like the look and feel of pure MDF, but I admit I'm a snob, and it may come down to personal preference.
Wood floors -- if you want the place to look prewar, don't use any of the trendy tropical woods and don't use wide planks.
We have wood crowns and they've done fine, but I understand Kylewest's point about MDF crowns. The trendy thing to do with renos now is extra-tall doors, so if you have room in terms of ceiling height you might want to check that out. I think one thing to pay attention to is proportion in terms of wall size/door size/baseboard size/crown size -- sketch it out before you start so your apartment doesn't look like it's wearing a zoot suit and a skinny tie.
If I were you I'd go to Open Houses on Sundays, and look at other prewars and see what they've done.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
Yes, it was a costly mid-reno mod, but WEP to go for 8' doors. I didn't mention 'coz I assumed you had doors you were keeping, so best to add new doors that match.
As nyc10023 mentioned Dykes is a good place to start when looking for moldings, it is really NYC’s convenience store for these type of items.
There are many alternatives to wood moldings like hi-density polymer that lighter then wood and easily allows intricate carvings at a fairly low cost with “off the shelves” options.
To stay true to the original look, I would suggest plaster, as it is the most customizable and some they can reproduce virtually anything including original elements for your specific apartment. It is also a little more expensive.
Drywalls are rather standard. 2-layers sheet rock (each side) with fiberglass insulation @ interior will provide incredible noise insulation. If you plan to hang art or heavy elements, 1-layer of plywood under the sheet rock could be helpful.
www.francoistenenbaum.com
I also think the "quarter rounds" that people add to the base of base mouldings look schlocky and Home Depot-y. Better get those floors level so you don't have to add them. Full disclosure - I have 'em and it bothers me when I see them.
Yes, having no quarter rounds is definitely higher end, but making the floors of a pre-war which has been settling for 80+yrs, level enough to not need the quarter-rounds can be an awfully expensive, if not impossible job, and over time as thing settle in it you'll see gaps, which is also schlocky. The other benefit of quarter rounds is that you can bury cable/wires beneath them, so if you need to get back in, it is much less cumbersome than having to lift up the base moulding, which can damage the wall and require new plaster/paint, etc.
You can do knee molding on the baseboards that's not actually quarter-round and that therefore doesn't look Home Depot-y . . . you just need to press your contractor for some options. I told mine to recreate the original baseboard as well as he could without creating (expensive) custom profiles, and it worked out well. The knee molding on mine, originally and now, is kind of a thin rectangle sloped a bit at the top.