One Brooklyn

I have a feeling there have been no offers to this building recently. As interested as I am in an apartment there, the financing that is available through the 2 banks that are currently offering loans for apartments there, well, they suck. Doesn't seem as if Wells Fargo got re-approved on their May 16 deadline.

The last time i spoke to one of the agents there (at obbp), which was around the end of march, he said there's about up to 8% wiggle room in the current listed price, and you can negotiate closing costs and maybe some free months maintenance.

Personally, if they're looking to unload these apartments and no one can get a conventional mortgage for them, either they need to do it soon, or maybe lower prices again. but who knows with this building anymore.

obv you can make an offer if you have the money, but neither streeteasy nor the OBBP website itself had added or taken down any listings in probably the past 3 months.

Cheers.

Meh

thanks for the update. I called one of the lenders for one brooklyn today and they told me the building will be FHA approved in a few days so perhaps that will open up more financing options?

Why would a buyer take such a risk? Location. Majority of unsold apartments. Risky development.

Is the pricing that good?

splaken, what you obviously consider to be a poor location, many people choose to be a very desireable location (a building in the middle of what will be a phenomenal park, on the water, etc.). While it is true that a majority of the apartments are unsold -- though OBBP either just has or is about to cross the 50% threshold -- sales progress has strong since the price cuts in October '09. OBBP is no more risky that most new development condos, and I think is actually substantially less risky than most (construction is complete, now crossing 50%, sales pace is good at all levels with many multi-million units being sold, Pier 6 having opened, etc.). And yes the pricing compared to other new developement condos and existing properties is extremely competitive.

Closings continue to happen and offers continue to come in at a good clip. Additional financing options are right around the corner now that the building will be 50% sold. Meh, you are not going to see many additional units come up on the OBBP site or streeteasy. They have listed a representative sample of units (commonplace strategy for developers), but all are for sale and are being shown.

As for negotiation on pricing, it really depends on the unit/line and how much it has already been discounted and how much of the line remains available (quite a few are sold out). On most I would say there is about 5% room from current list which would include things like closing costs or free months of maintenance.

"splaken, what you obviously consider to be a poor location, many people choose to be a very desireable location"

...
not that many people. You acknowledge less than 50% sold.

At roughly 50% that's about 220 apartments which is more than many buildings in their entirety. I'd say that's quite a few people. You seem to ignore that the market is fundamentally different now than during the boom years. And I'll admit previously a buyer needed a bit of vision (and there was more risk) because the Park was unbuilt and the area was rather industrial looking. But that vision is no longer needed as the completion and opening of the uplands of Pier 6, which now allows access to the entire perimeter of the building including the water, have fundamentally changed the feel of the area around the building. That expands the buyer pool considerably (sad to say that most people don't have vision). Indeed, traffic in the sales office has increased commensurate with the opening of Pier 6.

I'm not exactly sure what it means to be FHA approved, but from what i understand is that there are only 2 financing options available for non-conventional mortgates because Fannie Mae and/or Freddie Mac aren't buying mortgages for this building because it is less than 50% sold and therefore not financially stable. I also believe that there are cases where FM/FM won't buy into buildings that are less than 70% sold. In any event, FM/FM not buying mortgages is the reason banks such as Wells Fargo are no longer issuing them for this building. Again though, not sure what it means to be FHA approved, but i don't think this is it.

NYTimes: Spring Real Estate Market Roars In but Tiptoes Out Early
"Although many brokers will tell clients that the market has already hit bottom, some economists and real estate experts predict that prices are still falling, and will drop 5 percent to 15 percent by the end of next year."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/11/nyregion/11spring.html?nl=nyregion&emc=ura1

BTW, Toren, also in a not so desirable location and which started closing only couple of months ago, has already reached 51% sold; so have many buildings in Williamsburg or other parts of Brooklyn (table on the bottom), :
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/hitting-the-magic-number

"It's an especially important threshold now that more buildings are getting a special Fannie Mae waiver that gives buyers better mortgage rates once 51 percent of the units have been sold."

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/634707-condo-360-furman-street-brooklyn-heights-brooklyn
Big 2bd 2bth corner unit at OBBP for rent (I believe it's 08, one of the better lines with North water, Manhattan & the newly opened Pier 1 view), with a one million price tag & $1800 monthly cc, has lingered on the market for months despite multiple price cut! Talk about investment & value...

bklyn3 - i'll retype my comment below, i just posted ot on google group we have for the bldg; someone was asking a similar question.
btw, we moved in a few weeks ago - i have to say it's fantastic bldg, really. There is a few more acres of park opened up last weekend, and already so many kids in the park, people walking around, it's very lively. Having garage right in the building is an amazing feature for anyone who lived in the Heights and had to schlep to and from every weekend, unloading the car, etc. The terraces on 3rd floor are really cute, we come out in the evenings all the time. I am having a great time there, a true upgrade in the quality of living - so our purchase isn't just an investment for the future years when we'll realize the gains, but for right now - as we're enjoying other types of gains daily. So, if we're going for a double dip, at least i'll weather the storm in true comfort.
Here's my comment:
"I agree, it depends on what unit you're looking to buy, what floor and if you're
also buying a garage space, etc.

We were not successful with negotiating the transfer taxes and asking price was
lowered by less than 5%... good luck, perhaps you'll do better. Also,
we had a stupidity to have a broker, so her cost was on top of the asking price,
of course. She was helpful, but not sure it was worth the extra 5% or so...

So, we stalled for a bit, continued to look around in the Heights, and realized
we couldn't look at another walk up with 1,000 years old water pipes....
We lived in brownstones for over 15 years, - for now, i'm so not missing its
charming but crooked features:)"

meh, you are incorrect that Fannie Mae is not buying mortgages in OBBP. I financed through Wells Fargo recently and shortly after closing received a notice that Fannie Mae had purchased the note. As I understand it, additional financing options are soon to be available. FHA approval will be further proof of OBBP's financial stability.

leom, Toren's 51% is a very questionable number as it includes many contracts that were signed early that may never close because they were signed at pre-collapse prices. This is why there have only been approximately 60-65 closings to date (120 would be 50%), and most the closings have been units priced $550,000 or less which would indicate that most closings have been on the "moderate income lottery units." Indeed, no closing has been on a unit with a sales price of more than $1 million. For these reasons, Toren is a bad comparison to OBBP.

This is a report by the Real Deal, not some broker's hype. The closings do represent >51%. If you include all the "in contracts", the number would be >80%.
Furthermore, Toren has 240 units, only 42 of which are moderate income lottery units. More than 120 closings means at least 80 market rate apts have effectively closed in the last 2-3 months, which is stunning in this market.
And that # is from early april. If you check Toren's record on SE, closings continue to happen every week, including 800+ k for 1000+ sf big units.
No argument needed, thx. Facts are facts.

blsconnect/gatornyc

Thanks for the information. Helpful to know that people are enjoying the space! I really do think this is a great building with fabulous amenities. I went to see the toren as well and was very disappointed in the finishes. One Brooklyn exceeded my expectations on the finishes, amenities and quality of construction.

bklyn3: OBBP IS a very solid building. The finishes are upscale & elegant. It could be a super nice place when the mercury is in the 60-70s like recently, which, however, totals 2 months maximum in NYC. But to borrow from one commentator's "vision", you should also see youself walking to/from the Subway station in the headwind during a snow storm, which is not a rare thing in wintery NY, or in a 90 degree hot, hazy & humid day that's coming soon...
There's no restaurants, grocery stores, bars... nothing practical whithin walking distance. In a recent New Yorker article about shopping in Bkln, the author, after raving about every other nabes in the Kings county, reserved one short paragraph for (prime) Brooklyn Heights, comparing it to a dead Beacon Hill in Boston. Not to mention the other side of the BQE...
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/03/08/100308fa_fact_marx
Every development has its own target market. There are people choosing Roosevelt Island over Manhattan and also those rather living in a messy part of Queens than a nice but boring place with water, greenery & Manhattan views. Hope different perspective of view can help you make an informed decision. Good luck in your apt hunting! :)

Gator, i meant that FM FM is NO LONGER buying mortgages for this building through Wells Fargo, or anyone. They WERE, through Wells, up to may 16 2010, which i'm sure was well after you moved in hence your ability to get the loan. That deal between WF and FM was not renewed, leaving only 2 financing options left right now, according to the agent. The banks that will provide financing right now are offering crazy loans with points and ARM's and are not through FM.

Leom, those are not facts; your numbers are simply wrong. There have not been 120 closings at Toren -- check ACRIS or Streeteasy -- just hasn't happened. The 60-65 closings I noted is fact from Streeteasy from Nov. 24, 2009 (the date of the first closing) to today (60 listed on streeteasy which pulls from ACRIS and I alloted another 5 or so that aren't up yet). I have no idea where you are coming up with a more than 120 units having closed, but it's incorrect and therefore so is your contention that there have been 80 closings on market rate apartments in the past 2-3 months.

Indeed, the rate of closings at Toren has slowed to a trickle as there were 18 in March (all between 350-500k so apparently all lottery units), 9 in April, and then only 3 in May. This further evidences that most of the 60 or so contracts that Toren is using to profess its 51% sold number represent early signings where buyers have either walked away or won't close unless they can get substantial discounts. Toren at 51% sold is fiction, not fact.

"splaken, what you obviously consider to be a poor location, many people choose to be a very desireable location (a building in the middle of what will be a phenomenal park, on the water, etc.). "

And far from most of the other things people value and pay for in NYC... and way too close to what people try to avoid being next to... an elevated highway. Anybody calling it a "very desirable location" is just not being honest.

Separately, the bqe reconstruction talk has started. Thats not going to help. One way or another, its going to be painful for Brooklyn Heights, but a nightmare specifically for this location. The road needs to be dismantled and rebuilt.

Being next to that is the opposite of "very desirable".

Leom, same thing could be said of much of the Upper East Side, i.e., the walk from 1st, York or East End Ave, and other areas. It is but one factor and for bad weather days when you don't want to walk, OBBP offers a shuttle to Borough Hall, High Street and Clark Street (so virtually any subway you can get in downtown Brooklyn). Oh, and "2 months maximum"? Because the other 8 months are either snowstorms or 90 degree days? Please.

And I don't know what your idea of practical walking distance is, but there are plenty of bars and restaurants within practical walking distance. Atlantic Ave has many restaurants and bars, Columbia St. has several restaurants as well, and you may not like Montague Street but it also has restaurants, stores and a Key Food. And on Columbia Steet (one block away) there is now Iris Cafe and the River Deli and more is coming. I also consider Smith and Court Steets to be in practical walking distance with all they have to offer.

bklyn3 - anytime, if you have more questions, let me know.
We financed w WellsFargo, i can find out if they're full on the name (OBBP) for their purchases. btw, a lot of purchases in the bldg are cash purchases...
From personal observations - more and more windows are lit in the evening, on the courtyard side. I believe 4th floor, both wings are full. But as gatornyc pointed out - it's a very large building, there will be units available for sale always.
About the walk - for someone who commutes to the city (midtown) everyday - my time is the same as when i was on Columbia Heights. Only now i'm going not to 2/3 but to 4/5.
We had a few very hot days already, and my, it's a pleasure to be on the water. really, the breeze is so wonderful. that's one of the top features of the Heights in general, always a few degrees cooler in the summer.
There is a new restaurant on Joralemon, exactly one block away from the building. River Deli - you can stop for a meal or a drink on a way home. Plus, i dont' know what people complain about - Montague, Henry - 7min walk on Joralemon (not a two-stop trip on a subway). Joralemon, going down to the building is one of the prettiest streets in the Heights. Honestly, you hear birds and smell flowers, there are small gardens. Come winter - i doubt it'll be any worse than on Columbia Heights, so we are not worried.
Air quality - I talked to a few people with the City (not journalists and not developers). Air quality in midtown or mid-brooklyn is actually worse then by BQE because of the constant fresh air from the river and circulation. In any air-polluted area, you want to be by the water.
When I sit on the terrace in the evening, I do smell salty sea air.
Bklyn3, see if you can visit the building at different times of the day to get a better feel for it.

to somewhereelse - "Separately, the bqe reconstruction talk has started. Thats not going to help. One way or another, its going to be painful for Brooklyn Heights, but a nightmare specifically for this location. The road needs to be dismantled and rebuilt."
a full span of a bridge in SF was dismanteled and replaced over night. Traffic was stopped for about 17hrs in total. Whatever project they'll decide on with BQE, it'll be done in sections - the full length of the bqe under the Promenade and close to the building is what, about 10 blocks? with the new park by its side, the city has a great incentive to move as quickly as possible. Once the city got the control of the park, look how quickly it was completed... we are speculating at this point, but something tells me, repaired BQE v. old BQE is a positive. Perhaps, they'll even in-close the traffic and build it as a tunnel... bklyn3 - ignore these comments, it's really a speculation on what if...

"There is a new restaurant on Joralemon, exactly one block away from the building. River Deli"

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT!!!!!

I lived ACROSS THE STREET from that "deli" for 10 years, the first five when it was a shitty bodega, and the other five when it was empty. NOW it turns itself into something fabulous!

DAMMIT!!!!!!!

bls, obviously the city will fix the BQE by OBBP in a week or so. it only took them 5+ years, and still going, just to do a small part between Bay Ridge and Carroll Gardens. the OBBP owners are very important and should not be disturbed like tens of thousands of people so far.

Thx for the great news: finally a deli (either newly opened or existant for ages) on the other side of BQE that's within walking distance! LOL
If it's such a walkable place, why does OBBP bother to run a shuttle in the first place?!
Isn't it self-explainary?

A fresh reminder about what trouble could land lease (OBBP!) bring about:

Fannie Mae all but stopped buying mortgages in BPC for several months to review the complicated ground leases:

Read more: http://dnainfo.com/20100507/financial-district-battery-park-city/fannie-mae-resumes-backing-mortgages-battery-park-city#ixzz0qx2yrZ44

http://dnainfo.com/20100326/financial-district-battery-park-city/fannie-mae-balks-on-backing-mortgages-for-battery-park-city-homebuyers

http://dnainfo.com/20100507/financial-district-battery-park-city/fannie-mae-resumes-backing-mortgages-battery-park-city

Holding for long term and starting a family? PS 8 barely crawled to a 6 out of 10 rating (used to be worse: 5 until recently):
http://www.greatschools.org/new-york/brooklyn/2048-P.S.-8-Robert-Fulton/
Of course there are parents that like/accept it, as they do with 1/10, 3/10 rated schools. But the poor scores just don't get your kids anywhere.

...the walk from 1st, York or East End Ave, and other areas.
That's exactly why far UES is not a desirable location. The average price of that part Est to 2nd ave is arguably the 3rd lowest in Manhattan after Harlem & FIDI! An excellent comp for Furman st west to BQE!

Matt: From shitty to fabulous -- in a "OBBP" timetable minute !

Walking to Smith st? Of course you can. But check out Google map first: ie. to get to Prime Meats: 1.3 mile, 29 minutes. Actually you can walk over Brooklyn Bridge to Manhattan. But what's the point? You will have to go the another nabe to get something worth dining out or shopping, which proves the lack of vibrancy in your own...

Any construction on the BQE in that area is not slated to begin for at least 10 years. That being said, the park will be completed by then, and i think the construction on the BQE will be a minor detail to the people living there enjoying themselves on 60 acres of waterfront park property. As long as you don't live on the lower floors of the BQE side, i think this would be a great place to live.

A lot can happen in 10 years. Don't forget the proposal for more residential buildings just south of pier 6... those could be built within the next 10 years as well. I guess for some of you on this board that just means another 10 years of telling people why this is such a crappy place to live, while you're "living the luxury life" in your studio apartments with no central air.

Leom, there are alternatives to public schools, also, FM started buying mortgages again in BPC. I'm sure there's a reason for that. If FM starts buying mortgages for OBBP, then whats the problem? They're insured in case anything happens, which means safety for the residents. If the location were so terrible, why are people living there now? There are plenty of other areas (UES) that have their own long walks to subways and have beautiful views of the FDR.

Honestly i came to this discussion board to discuss the posssibility of living in the building, and the process of going about purchasing an apartment, and just like all the other discussions on this board, the same several people come on and throw a barrage of insults to everyone thinking about living there. This is pointless. You people are unrealistic, and well, jealous.

"You people are unrealistic, and well, jealous. "

not really. most are REALISTIC and clearly NOT JEALOUS as most people with heads on their shoulders have walked into this place and walked out for the past 3 years and said "Are they nuts to expect us to pay those prices?"

the cash buyers purchased the manhattan view apartments and will have a car pick them up. you know that they will not be able to get the fat cats to buy the whole building..... just reality.

leom, it's not a deli (notwithstanding the name), it's an Italian restaurant that has gotten great reviews. Of course, you ignore all the other restaurants and stores within walking distance. The shuttle is an amenity of a luxury building nothing more nothing less. I've lived in OBBP for almost two months and have taken the shuttle once.

As for the land lease, it is nothing like the BPC land leases, so that's were the discussion end. But keep slinging mud at OBBP, something might stick.

Regarding PS 8, I'm not going to base my decision on what one website says about the school (based solely on standarized tests - don't even get me started on that). I'm going to base my decision on my wife who works with the BOE and who says that its one of the better schools around. Oh and by the way PS 20, the school that Forte is zoned for, only rated a 5. How did that factor into your decision to purchase at Forte "for the long term and starting a family"?

Go back and enjoy your purchase at your foreclosed, fire-saled property (Forte). It was obviously a much better choice and location than OBBP.

meh: I didn't insult you. Good luck. Really.

"Any construction on the BQE in that area is not slated to begin for at least 10 years. That being said, the park will be completed by then, and i think the construction on the BQE will be a minor detail to the people living there enjoying themselves on 60 acres of waterfront park property."

Mark down the day you said that. "Minor detail". Remember that. I will.

I specifially noted that it is now being planned/talked about, as opposed to a few months ago. meaning it starts to affect values.

But if you really think the entire deconstruction of the bqe will have no affect on the park area, you are delusional. This is a HUUUUUGE construction project coming.

> while you're "living the luxury life" in your studio apartments with no central air.

If this is what you have to resort to.... wow.... but if thats how you need to defend living under a highway.

The park area will be the STAGING GROUND for the construction. Meaning much of it unusable. It was a big complaint, that they're doing the park first, then ripping much of it up for staging.

Yes, they'll tell you limited disruptions, minor inconvenience... but we're talking construction at the levels of the big dig and ground zero here. The bqe is getting *bigger*.

They're already talking about killing 50 buildings in Brooklyn heights.

wow sw, so if they add another lane on BQE, the people in OBBP will be able to touch the cars traveling on it. i'd pay double for that.... no triple since the park will be unusable for 10 yrs in 10 yrs.

sw and ab, the Park will not be the staging ground for the construction. Never going to happen and you know it. But keep up your your fear mongering. Also there are no plans to add a fourth lane to the BQE only to expand it where necessary to avoid the merges from 3 lanes to 2 and vice versa. The DOT is also considering a tunnel to replace this entire section of the BQE, but never mind the facts, just keep on harping on only those that serve your motives.

leom, first Prime Meats is on Court Street not Smith. Second, that's the closest good restaurant you could think of on Court or Smith (none in Cobble Hill, only one deep into Carroll Gardens)? No, just your choice to try to prove your point. You didn't; there are many good restaurants within walking distance of OBBP no matter how hard you try to ignore them.

Finally, as usual the traditional cast of characters (somewhere, ab_, leom) have come to save those who dare consider OBBP. For a more reasoned discussion join us at: http://groups.google.com/group/obbp?hl=en

This building is far away from anything. The walk is going to be brutal in the winter, those houses on the way will lose their charm after the seeing them 500 times.

If you are getting a view, they are nice apartments. Many look at the BQE and truck depot though.

somewhere, you're comparing the BQE work to the Big Dig (a $10 billion project) and ground zero? That's such insanity it doesn't even merit further discussion. Stop the fearmongering. Do a little bit of reading and you will learn that the eminent domain option is but one of many being considered and one that is very unlikely to happen.

...obviously a much better choice and location than OBBP
Thx for your blessing. Yes I'm enjoying an awesomre return on the properties (in order not to make your too jealous, I wouldn't declose the exact #), with which I've moved to a true 3bd 3bth in a family friendly nabe, one block to a 9/10 school, where I have my kid registered for this fall. And I still have $2000 as extra pocket money, hehe.
Pity on that owner at OBBP, who'd be suffering $1000-2000 negative cash flow monthly. That's if he could ever get it rented. As a matter of fact, the demand at Forte was so high that my properties as well as the ones I know of all rented out shortly after closing even b/f the broker officially listed them. The greatest decision in my wife has been to pass on OBBP. :)
How much is your monthly carrying now? With the same amount, wouldn't nicer to live in that listed 08 line with fabulous view than your triple exposure (both bedrooms & living room) to BQE, if you have to live in OBBP?
I can't save you from denial, but can't let you to mislead the other Brooklyn buyers!

Treetownnal, actually very few apartments look at the BQE. On the six floor and above you can only see the BQE if you are right up against the window and look down. The view is actually a picturesque view of Brooklyn and beyond. For floors 3-5 on the BQE side, the view is not as good and those apartments have been priced accordingly. As for the apartments with a view of a truck depot (actually the pier) they also have a view of the harbor, the Statue of Liberty, Governors Island and Pier 6. Not bad.

Truth, i wasn't talking to you, you hadn't even posted on this string when i wrote that. Although i do know from other strings you are anti-this building. But to your credit, not as bad as some others.

Somewhere, Ok, i'll talk to you in 10 years. Honestly you've done nothing on these stings but throw negative comments towards the PEOPLE asking about the building rather than the building itself. If you read my post you'd see that i never said i was currently living there to which you replied "thats how you need to defend living under a highway", nor did i say that the apartments next to the BQE are good. I said "As long as you don't live on the lower floors of the BQE side". Read.

I'd be shocked as sh*t if the city used the park as the staging ground for BQE construction, which by the way isn't even propsed as far south as the atlantic ave exit. I mean seriously the city can't be THAT stupid to build a multi million dollar park and then deconstruct it. You have to give them some credit.

leom, mislead Brooklyn buyers? Nothing I have said is misleading and you know it. It is you that have mislead many on this board as your admission that you decided to rent your perfect apartment at Forte proves. I'm shocked considering all your posts about how great Forte is and how much you couldn't wait to move in and enjoy all that Downtown Brooklyn and Forte had to offer. Despite how perfect Forte was for you, you've now abandoned it for "a true 33bd 3bth in a family friendly nabe." So I guess the great location of Forte wasn't so great after all? Or you were always just an investor looking to rent out your "properties" and just lied to everyone on the board.

Also, nice to know that Forte is such a hot rental property; doesn't sound like a place I would want to live (in fact, it never was). If I wanted to live in a primarily rental building I would have stayed a renter. And excuse me if I don't quite believe that your investment has been as sucessful as you profess. Doesn't seem like this unit has had much success renting: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/636369-rental-230-ashland-place-downtown-brooklyn-brooklyn.

And I love living at OBBP. You know that I considered the 18 line (its not an 08, its an 18) and the 10 line and I prefer and bought the 10 line.

By the way, still waiting for the response about the Toren closing numbers. Only more proof that if someone is misleading those on this board, it is you.

wow, this a very heated discussion...
bklyn3 just asked for help about getting INTO the building, all the talk about long walks, bad schools and future construction project - that's "staging" for feeling better about the posters' investments elsewhere/non-investments in OBBP. "talking up your trade" is all good but this is getting out of control... I actually think OBBP brings down values in Brooklyn Heights, because compared to that place: condo, garage, views, quality, fantastic amenities - all smallish coops look sad and def overpriced... Btw, maintenance on most places in the Heights is around $1,200+. without any amenities that OBBP has to offer.
To say that Forte is a better investment than OBBP - that's such a strange comparison, the bldgs are in totally different parts of brooklyn. We looked there as well, and after deducting for location, distance to work and places we love in the city and in B'klyn, freshness, quality of construction, parks, people, etc. Forte actually ended up looking more expensive than OBBP. If we were going strictly for space - why even bother to live in Brooklyn??? across the river, you'd get fantastic space for much less money.
bklyn3, if you have any more questions - ask away. Perhaps gatornyc can let you into the google group.

bls, thanks for saving me the typing, couldn't have said it better :-)

> sw and ab, the Park will not be the staging ground for the construction.

That has already been announced. Not to mention, where on earth else do you think it could be?

"Do a little bit of reading and you will learn that the eminent domain option is but one of many being considered and one that is very unlikely to happen."

Sounds like I've done more reading than you. Yes, ED is not definite... I just noted it to show the scale. Fact is, if ED doesn't happen, its probably worse for 1BBP, they'll definitely have to go with more technology angle, and go further into the park.

If you read my post you'd see that i never said i was currently living there to which you replied "thats how you need to defend living under a highway"

"Somewhere, Ok, i'll talk to you in 10 years. Honestly you've done nothing on these stings but throw negative comments towards the PEOPLE asking about the building rather than the building itself. If "

No, actually, you are confused. I made comments about the building specifically. Gator didn't like them and attacked me personally. All of my original comments, and these comments until these stupid accusations started up, were about the building.

And then YOU started personal attacks today. Gator and you seem to be the ones who go personal when you don't.

" I guess for some of you on this board that just means another 10 years of telling people why this is such a crappy place to live, while you're "living the luxury life" in your studio apartments with no central air."

- guy who just complained about others making personal attacks.

gunny.

" I mean seriously the city can't be THAT stupid to build a multi million dollar park and then deconstruct it. "

Funny, because there were a lot of angry letters protesting exactly that. And, yes, the government is that stupid. Its a daily occurence of repaving a street and then ripping it up for some other work. Its called departments that don't talk to one another.

> sw and ab, the Park will not be the staging ground for the construction.

That has already been announced. Not to mention, where on earth else do you think it could be?

Care to provide a source, somewhere? This has not been announced. Everything is in the very early stages regarding this work; it is 10 years from any actual construction being started after all. Nothing has been finalized, and most certainly not using BBP as a staging ground.

DOT. Hell, its even mentioned in the Brooklyn Bridge Park conservancy (or whatever the hell they call it) glossy brochure.

> Nothing has been finalized, and most certainly not using BBP as a staging ground.

You really aren't keeping up on these things. They're already using the park for the Brooklyn Bridge expansion staging ground, which is starting now.

So much for your "they won't be using it as a staging ground" claims.

" If we were going strictly for space - why even bother to live in Brooklyn??? across the river, you'd get fantastic space for much less money. "

Are you saying folks are moving to Brooklyn from Manhattan for non-space / cost reasons?

Forte is more than a building. It's a great community! Check out our thread. Even buyers from other buildings go to our thread for information and advice. I don't need to waste my time to explain my move or do research for you regarding the one listing you posted. But I can tell you some facts: the same D line on a higher floor rented out for $3200 (200 more) in about a month and the broker got a full 15% commission; 14A (a three bed) rented out within 2 weeks without formal listing (I ran into the renters in the lobby and was told they had been looking "agressively" at Forte); my own properties signed the leases on the 2nd weekend after closing... During open houses for renting, many visitors offered to buy for $600-700/sf, which would be a 30-40% increase in value over the fire sale at about $500/sf only a couple of months ago). But no owners wanted to sell!
If you had bought at Forte and flipped for a financial gain to buy OBBP, you wouln't need a mortgage now. Lack of vision and missed opportunity for you. Excuese-me, you PREFER 10 line? Or was it more AFFORDABLE to you in spite of BQE exposure?
As an attorney, you shouldn't be accused of being defensive. But you're just not smart enough as worth my time discussing real estate, investment or choice for family life with you. Adios!

somewhere, is this the glossy brochure your referring to: http://www.brooklynbridgepark.org/index.cfm?objectid=8D6417F8-FF7C-D738-9E6B088F8170E718. It doesn't say that BBP will be used as a staging area for the BQE work rather it merely says "The Conservancy will also be closely monitoring State DOT plans to repair the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway's 'triple cantilever' beneath the Brooklyn Heights Promenade. Although this work is years away, we need to plan now to minimize construction impacts upon Brooklyn Bridge Park. With that, we recognize that the BQE rehabilitation can bring opportunity, including alterations that could reduce traffic noise in the park..." (Fall 2008). Show us the DOT document that says that BBP will be used as the staging area. Doesn't exist and you know it. Of course in late 2007 and 2008, the DOT stated that BBP will NOT be used as a staging area for the BQE work: http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/7/30_07bqe.html. But where are your sources?

And if you don't see the difference between using a small, undeveloped section of BPP as a staging area for the work on the Brooklyn Bridge from using a portion of the completed Park as a staging area I can't help you.

yeah, that really backs up the original claim, don't it!

"construction on the BQE will be a minor detail to the people living there"

I'm never going to forget that one.

> undeveloped section of BPP as a staging

BTW, thats park of the COMPLETED park.

you should get your facts straight.

btw, same paper you quoted...

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/5/30_05bqe_vs_park.html

"But the only way to make the repairs, experts said, is to use Brooklyn Bridge Park as a staging area."

"Doing so would require a large part of Brooklyn Bridge Park as a staging area, transportation officials told the feds."

or those great alternatives...

"Other alternatives, such as shutting down the BQE, building a temporary roadway in the park itself, or shunting the traffic through Brooklyn Heights, are being considered, too."

much better...

"Another alternative could be to run traffic on Furman Street, which is meant to be the main avenue on the edge of the park — but that would essentially require park-goers to cross an Interstate highway."

and wouldn't that be even closer to 1BBP?

leom, "forte is more than a building. It's a great community!" Right, just not one that you care to live at despite all your posts in which you lied to the board. Your motives are clear; you shill for Forte and your investments there. Down with other properties to the benefit of your own. You are a liar and your posts prove it.

> "I don't need to waste my time to explain my move or do research for you regarding the one listing you posted."

But you are all too ready to post one rental listing at OBBP (on this thread no less) and based on it denigrate the investment and value at OBBP. Sauce for the goose my friend. I don't believe any of your claims regarding your profit at Forte or that "many" visitors offered to buy resales at Forte for 30-40% more than people paid just a few months ago let alone that none of the owners wanted to sell in the face of such a profit.

And yes we preferred the 10 line; we could have purchased either unit but it would have been stretching a bit to do the 18 line. The 10 line unit was larger and the floorplan made more sense for us. I explained my rationale to you on prior threads and I won't waste time to further explicate my decision now to you. I wasn't in the market for an investment property, I was in the market for a home. Much different choices and at least I was honest about mine.

You lied about Forte, you lied about Toren, and you've lied about OBBP. You are a liar and you are not smart enough to discuss anything with me or others on this board. You have been exposed for who you really are. Boards like this could be great resources for people if not for the lying shills like you.

Gator, is it possible for you to post without personally attacking someone?

and you might want to stop screaming about others lying, considering you've done the same.

nice bactracking, somewhere. Agains where is the DOT source that says the BBP will be used as the staging area for the BQE reconstruction. All you are posting now are possiblities. The article you posted even pre-dates the one I posted. Let's go to October 2008 for a more current look: http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/31/42/31_42_sp_furman.html.

And shunting traffic through Cobble Hill and Brooklyn Heights would be much better for residents of OBBP, not that I'm advocating it, but it is an option being considered. And that's the point, despite you stating as fact that BBP would be used as a staging area for the BQE work, no decisions have been made or finalized.

As for personal attacks, you are the king (or queen) of personal attacks so you reap what you sow. Very few of my posts contain personal attacks, but again you reap what you sow. And I'm still waiting for you to show me one thing I've lied about. It's been what two months? You can't and you know it. Hypocrite.

And once again the haters have ruined what could have been a constructive thread about OBBP. Congratulations haters! You know who you are.

Lastly, somewhere, get your facts straight. Unless you consider laying asphault to be a completed section of the park the staging area for the Brooklyn Bridge repair (where the Purchase building once stood) was not completed. Look it up.

meh: I'm not anti-OBBP , it's RAL that I'm anti.

If you move in ,good luck, with everything. Never mind what's going on behind the walls. There is a contractor who did work for RAL on a big project. The contractor was so concerned about the corners that RAL insisted on cutting; that contractor kept a log listing them; for his own protection. Especially after RAL insisted that certain, what could be called high-end finishes be installed in the cheapest, most dangerous way. They could fall on a person's head.

RAL's response to that contractor?:
"Don't worry -- if anything happens, it's the architect's problem."

OK, full disclosure about family situation: my son passed the gifted & talented program with a high score (the results came in after we bought at Forte, of course) but there's no G&T program at PS20. His birthday is also cut off by the private school we want to send him to. So I had to sacrifice my own lifestyle for my son's education by moving to that verdant nabe just next to a well regarded school. (Morale for fellow buyers: why properties in good school district hold the value better? Shouldn't one be cautious about spending on million dollar family size apts where the zoned school is a mediocre 6/10?). Nothing prevents us from moving back once he reaches the age requirement by the private school.
In the meantime, my family continue to have brunch at General Greene (hmm, steak omelet), meet friends over casual dinner at No.7, check out Bkln Flea, taste the fresh produce on the farmer's market at Fort Greene Park... Actually, we are enjoying the best various Brooklyn nabes have to offer: we just came back from the Bee-party at Bkln Botanical Garden and Van Brunt street fair in Red Hook last weekend. From time to time, we also take in the charm of the (prime) Bkln Heights strolling down the brownstones. We just never feel the urge to cross the BQE. :)
Plz continue crying... :P

bklyn3 - if you continue to read these strange vignettes about why 3 people hate OBBP - take it w a grain of salt. In my opinion, if i really enjoyed a purchase elsewhere, i wouldn't come to the OBBP discussion (1), or i would state pros and cons (2), and wish you best of luck (3). buying a home is a nerve-racking thing. So, i suspect, people who continuously offend OBBP feel a need to justify their decision or just fear that they'll appear less worthy if they say - "couldn't afford it". Either way, it's really immature.
Try to see the building a few more times, talk to people who live here, and ignore the naysayers - if you go back and read previous threads about OBBP - you'll see that these same people said, park will never happen; 50% occupancy will never happen; etc. Now, repair of BQE and DOT are big bad wolfs that will destroy the 'hood. The HEights survived the '70s, it'll survive a major construction project. Again, the technology in how road repairs are made - day and night from even 10 years ago.
I have a friend who everytime I go and buy something beautiful at a fancy store - screams - stupid, you could have bought a similar item for half price at walmart. Well, how can you explain about quality? and about the whole experience of purchase, and other non-tangible things? Walking home and seeing a river makes me happy. Being in a brand new home with fancy amenities makes me happy. Being 10 min away from all major subway lines that bring me to the city in a fraction of time compared to Sheapshead bay or bay ridge - that's important for me as well. Price is a reflection of many things. I believe OBBP is fair value. I've seen $300K one bedrooms in the Heights and to me they were too expensive.
Fort Greene should be substantially cheaper than here, as I mentioned earlier, we didn't think the price of several apartments we saw there reflected that fact.
Again, i think it's wonderful that more and more people move here (Brooklyn is now what Left Bank has become for Parisians), we should be all encouraging this, then, perhaps, one day Leom will be able to "flip" his property to pay for ivy league for his brilliant son!

bisconnet: Thx for being so thoughtful. :) Actually my employer pays me education grant that's up to 75% of tuition from kindergarten through college. A big incentive for me to send the kid to a private as soon as next year. If I flipped Forte for OBBP today, I could buy a decent 2bd 2bth all cash or afford a huge 3 bd. But I wouldn't b/c I'll never make my son make that 20 mn schlep (twice a day) to/from the far north side of BH for a mediocre school. But we're also looking to relocate to Europe. So who knows...
Totally agree with you about stating pros & cons for prospective buyers. I've admitted on this thread that OBBP is a solid building with good finishes & potential with the future parks. But serious buyers shouldn't overlook many drawbacks key to real estate: 1) isolated location, closeness to BQE with all the noise & polution issues as well as concern about reconstruction; 2) 10-12 mn walk to the closest subway station, the distance being equal if not greater than York Ave to Lex; 3) lack of good restaurants & grocery stores; 4) not a desirable school district; 5) still less than 50% sold after sitting on the market for 3 years & despite a 35% price chop on many units 9 months ago; 6) land lease situation that translates into high cc in spite of tax abatement now and possible risk of reassessment, financing difficulties in the future; 7) labyrinth like hallway with tens of apt on each floor that might fell like a gigantic resort/hotel/dorm when everyone moves in; 8) planned development to the southwest of the building that will block the view of the southern units; 9) current owners will endure huge negative cash flow if they want/have to rent out, which should reflect the true value the market for the area can really support.

Last but not least: the overall economy is still shaky, stock market remains volatile. As many experts predict, a 5% down (a relatively rosy scenario) on an apt at average OBBP level would wipe out years of savings for a middle class family. Inventory is up on Urbandigs (more than 9000 again), with 2000-2500 open houses every weekend! Honestly, I will gain the most if every development in Bkln increases in value. If OBBP goes on fire sale for $500/sf, how could I resell my Forte at $700? :P
But from my own recent buying experience, now is a bad time to buy anything, not to mention a less than 50% sold controversial building. I feel like the other leg might be down if those 9000 listings (+7500 units in shadow inventory) in Manhattan don't move in the next couple of warm months. We might see further correction across the board this winter. (BE@schermerhorn has recently been repriced for notably lower; Toren cut price across the board by 15%) Or you could snap a deal or two from individual sellers that still need to sell by then.
My colleague is selling her property for relocation to Asia. Assessed for 50k less in April than last winter , and now another 50k less than 2 months ago. After a couple of price "ajustments", it's still on the market. But she bought in 1998 (!) for half of its after crisis today. She will hugely reduce again so that she can leave NY worry free next month. Can you compete with that? :)

Forogt to mention: 10) developper has dubious reputation; 11) 1 year having passed on the loan extension made in spring 2009 to barely lift the soldness by 15% or so, the developper will need to regotiate with the bank to get another extension in May 2011 or run the risk of being foreclosed by the latter.
One comment for new buyers regarding those who have happily moved singing "I'm-loving-it": The cruel reality is they are paying MUCH more for housing. Take Gator's 10 line for exemple: with a 20% down on 750k (rough estimate) & a conventional loan $1700 (also not to be exact), the carrying cost would be in the 5k - 6k range depending on the rates. Give me that budget: I can easily find you brand new 2bd 2bth rental in GV, UWS, waterfront Manhattan with much better access to subways, services & schools, a gut renovated spacious floor through in prime BH, or a much better line inside OBBP! Why do you need to live right about BQE and refrain from approaching the window in order not to see it? One of the reasons you feel there's an improvement of quality of life is you are probably comparing it to your $3000 old 1 bd rental, which shouldn't be a comp in the first place.
Of course you get benifits in owning such as stability & tax deduction. But don't forget your closings cost, interests paid to the bank, home insurance, loss of mobility, 6% commission to the broker & transfer tax when it comes to resale. With the rent to own ratio so distorted at OBBP (as in much of NYC) & a generally downturn market, I'm not sure about "fair value"...

blsconnect/gatornyc

Thanks for the insight about the building and area. I'll connect on google group so that the conversation doesn't get sidetracked...

:)

"And once again the haters have ruined what could have been a constructive thread about OBBP. Congratulations haters! You know who you are>'

Yeah, thanks A LOT gator and meh. Thanks for starting the rediculous personal insults again.

And not only do you START them, gator, then you complain about their negative effect on threads!

Time to check yourself, gator. But, we know why.... you don't have the facts to support yourself.

"all smallish coops look sad and def overpriced"

except they're much cheaper psf. if pricing were similar, thats one thing, but 1bbp was priced so far above, its the overpriced one.