Neighbor noise in a condo

I had this issue:

1. I ripped the existing drywall out. It was 2 layers of 5/8".
2. Added insulation to missing parts in the wall.
3. Wrapped a soundproofing "puddy wrap" around electrical switches, outlets and such.
4. Installed 2 layers of 5/8" QuietRock (forgot the model number) with 3 tubes of Green Glue per sheetrock, and some type of glue for all the edges of the sheetrock.

Works great.

I'd also have your owner get in touch with their owner. And if there's another apartment on the other side of them, I'd talk to the resident of that one and try to get support for your noise claims.

Oh dear. Are there any house rules in the building about noise levels? Most buildings have something written into the lease that says you cannot disturb others past a certain hour. White noise devices don't work for very loud noises (we used to live not far from a noisy street).

In your defense, we have a a tv, 3 speaker system and a subwoofer and not only have never had noise complaints (in 3 apartments), but you can absolutely not hear our tv from the hallway or even from one room away. Are your neighbors really young? They could just be oblivious, in which case a nice request and a stern note from management would probably solve the issue. Have you ever knocked on their door at 1am and asked them to please turn it down? I had to do this in my last place, and my neighbor was actually very nice about it, he had just moved from the burbs and just didn't realize.

Have you talked to your neighbors? I have found in most instances, it works really well, especially if you have reasonable expectations (move the speakers from the party wall, no loud noise after midnight.) For the other cases (drug-addled, relationship-challenged club kids), complaining to your LL should work, either to remove the new tenants or install sound-proofing.

I agree that talking directly and politely to them is the way to go --in addition to talking to your LL, any other neighbors and the super's scary letter. If none of the civilized ways work out, well then, consider that if they are up that late, it is safe to say they don't have early morning commitments. So when you leave for work in the morning, turn your speakers towards their walls, crank up the most obnoxious tv station and walk out the door. After a few days, maybe you can start another discussion.

Doubt that you LL will tear down drywall and insulate for sound. My experience is that a heavy curtain will not alleviate the problems you are having. But there is that egg carton foam that they use in sound studios that is very effective.

Unfortunately we may be past the polite conversation point.
In the 10 weeks they've been here, I've only seen one of the two roommates twice. They seem to be around odd hours, so I felt odd "politely" knocking on their door after midnight.

And then-
One of the bad nights this week (hammering), my wife knocked on their door, loudly, at 1am. They did not answer after repeated attempts. She then said something through the door to them about reporting them to management if they didn't want to answer their door.

On sound deading/white noise-
I know none of that will do much for their hammering/furniture moving/indoor floor hockey.
However, I was looking for solutions to mitigate some of the TV noise. Especially now with the knowledge that they have a wall-mount TV (not their fault, its actually a furnished apartment and landlord put it there).

And obviously my landlord is not doing any renovations on my behalf, so I don't expect any solution to involve him.

It's odd because this is generally a "family" building, where being in my 20s I feel out of place. Our neighbors appear to be two roommates in mid-20s to mid-30s. I don't know how they don't drive each other crazy with the noise, or how two people that have jobs (presumably) allowing them to stay up past 3am found each other.

Unfortunately we may be past the polite conversation point.
In the 10 weeks they've been here, I've only seen one of the two roommates twice. They seem to be around odd hours, so I felt odd "politely" knocking on their door after midnight.

And then-
One of the bad nights this week (hammering), my wife knocked on their door, loudly, at 1am. They did not answer after repeated attempts. She then said something through the door to them about reporting them to management if they didn't want to answer their door.

On sound deading/white noise-
I know none of that will do much for their hammering/furniture moving/indoor floor hockey.
However, I was looking for solutions to mitigate some of the TV noise. Especially now with the knowledge that they have a wall-mount TV (not their fault, its actually a furnished apartment and landlord put it there).

And obviously my landlord is not doing any renovations on my behalf, so I don't expect any solution to involve him.

It's odd because this is generally a "family" building, where being in my 20s I feel out of place. Our neighbors appear to be two roommates in mid-20s to mid-30s. I don't know how they don't drive each other crazy with the noise, or how two people that have jobs (presumably) allowing them to stay up past 3am found each other.

to mount the TV on the wall that is shared is just so rude. i sympathize with you and wish you well and agree that being the bigger person and trying to communicate civilly with them is the way to go. if that fails, perhaps you can borrow some creative ideas from the below situation! Enjoy

http://vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com/2010/04/back-to-backside.html

I say a concerned knock at the door by you and your wife at 1:30 am dressed in robes is the best idea for the first approach. It is a direct appeal to be reasonable by concerned sleepless neighbors. If you are not comfortable with that, since it is a little awkward, there is always the follow-up with the super, management company and landlord.

I say a concerned knock at the door by you and your wife at 1:30 am dressed in robes is the best idea for the first approach. It is a direct appeal to be reasonable by concerned sleepless neighbors. If you are not comfortable with that, since it is a little awkward, there is always the follow-up with the super, management company and landlord.

Ugh.

Renters. Worse -- ROOMMATES!

All I can say is, I can't understand why anyone would sink a ton of money into a CONDO, where you have absolutely no control over whom your neighbors are.

I hate to say it, but many of you who eschew the "invasive" process of co-op board approval and most co-ops' restrictive sublet policies will have it come back to bite you in the ass, just like steve123 here.

If it's gone beyond a friendly talking-to, I'm afraid that complaining to the building management and the apartment owner may only backfire, particularly if the "roommates' in question are younger than 30. Like it or not, most 20-somethings are too busy living their Big New York Adventure to give a crap about disturbing others. And given this generation's over-the-top sense of entitlement, your complaining might only make them spiteful, worsening the situation.

Still, you can't live like this. Stick to your guns. Complain to the management and the apartment owner, and do what you can legally to stop the noise. But brace for the blowback.

Good luck.

OOPS ... didn't see that steve is a renter, too.

Oh well.

If you've already voiced a concern to your neighbors with no results, don't expect the owners to do much. Most owners of subletted apartments don't really give a crap about issues like this until it comes to a point where the building can impose fines on them, or in the case of co-ops, have the tenants evicted and rescind their ability to sublet to future tenants, in which case they'll be losing thousands a month in lost rental income.

"I hate to say it, but many of you who eschew the "invasive" process of co-op board approval and most co-ops' restrictive sublet policies will have it come back to bite you in the ass, just like steve123 here."

And how the hell does a co-op board know if someone is going to make noise at 3 AM? Do you think they are going to tell you at the interview?

That sucks. Noise can be a really gray area.
Many years ago had a really bad neighbor. i took a pillow and ran shoulder first into our "shared" wall.
I heard something fall and shatter. Never found out what that was. But noise levels went to livable after that.
Maybe your shared wall has a poor bracket holding up their TV(doubtful).But banging into a wall full force on the other side of a flat screen once a day may have your neighbors reconsider this daily dice roll. :)

"And how the hell does a co-op board know if someone is going to make noise at 3 AM? Do you think they are going to tell you at the interview?"

1. We don't approve 20-somethings with "roommates" -- period.

2. If they DO cause a problem, if it's not resolved immediately, the shareholder is immediately fined the equivalent of their monthly maintenance until the problem IS resolved. It's amazing how quickly the shareholder reacts when economic pressure is applied. If, however, that still doesn't work, the board has the right to begin eviction proceedings, which in the case of subletters, can move remarkably quickly.

You don't start out with waterboarding?

In your case, Alan, I'd start with a little light spanking ...

$200

Yes we are both renters, and while we pile onto 20-somethings here.. I'm actually the two.
This is our second apartment in the building.
The last one we had occasional neighbor noise from a nut who conducted speakerphone conference calls, in bed, at 1am. She was actually an owner too. And again, not 9-5 job, had family money and "worked from home" for a non-profit.

In any case the common theme then and now was - single women under 35, without regular 9-5 jobs. They don't seem to recognize the loudness of their own voice.. or anything else. Two of them in one apartment seems to lead to exponential increases in noise.

The funny thing is that I am again reminded that my old rent-stabilized apartment in a less-nice neighborhood had quieter, nicer, neighbors.. and much less turnover.

In any event I'm glad to not be an owner in this building.

Going to follow up with super about wall-mounted tv's on common walls.

I also have some neighbor issue but not as bad as Steve123. Is this the common theme in Manhattan buildings? Are buildings built before a certain time better than others, pre vs. post war? I live in a building from mid 70's, the walls are nothing more than a piece of sheetrock, nails can't stay at one spot and noise travels pretty easily.

Document the noise - dates, times, what the noise was. Record it if you can.

If it persists, send a certified letter to your landlord and the management of the building with the documentation. If the management can then not improve the situation, see what your options are for getting out of the lease. THese women are in a furnished apartment - it's not their stuff and obviously they don't care about the building. The only thing that may make them care if the potential for economic loss and/or the threat of eviction. A very formal complaint to the management company should force them to do something other than send a stern note (if the first one doesn't work), as too many of them could give you grounds for unlivable conditions and the last thing the owners of a building want is to lose good tenants.

Are your neighbors entertaining gentleman callers?

hofo - My building is pre-war, but went condo in 80s so some of the interior walls are of much newer vintage. Sometimes i miss my tomb-silent old rental building with its thick, plaster walls. We really love this building, but the walls may be subpar. It's tempting to try a brownstone next.. at least theres no wall-to-wall noise.

alan - Yes, but thats not what we are hearing, if thats what you imply.

Wayward girls in a den of iniquity ... not good, not good at all.

brownstone: built for single-family use; nightmarish for sound-transfer.

watch out for brownstones. I had a 400 lb upstairs neighbor with a treadmill directly over our bed. we woke every morning to what sounded like a herd of elephants stampeding a baskin robbins. good news was he never lasted more than 5 minutes. still, once you are awake, you are awake.

I think my favorite solution is taking a running leap at the wall with a pillow for protection--genius :)

White Noise - google "Marsona." I have the little travel one, about $80 from Amazon. works pretty well.

I agree that you have to try to talk to the neighbors during the day. It would have been far better to meet them with a plate of cookies when they first moved in, but too late now. Now it's got to be, "I'm sorry, I don't think you realize that we can hear your TV, it's really loud and really late, we're going to have to get the building to enforce the house rules against noise after 11 pm [or whatever]."

Then complain, complain, complain, and get the other neighbors involved.

good luck.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Well thought I might as well follow up.
Can't believe its been 8 months..
Eventually one of the girls (who was seen doing coke by staff) moved out, and a boyfriend moved in.
She also got 2 large (barking) dogs, and started smoking (profusely).

After 6 months of complaints, I found out the entire floor was fed up with them as well.
She had at this point also become notorious with the building staff.

What was interesting was to see how seemingly powerless the condo board was to do much of anything.
The decision was put to the landlord, and in the end all he did was decline to renew their lease.
Was not an eviction, early lease termination, or anything of that sort..

Steve, what a nightmare. I hope they're out soon. We had a somewhat similar situation with clueless, inconsiderate neighbors in our rental. Not as bad as yours, but definitely a nuisance. Luckily, they eventually left.

By the way, for the remaining time I recommend a Sleepmate white noise machine. We use it every night regardless of noise. It's the type used in doctors' offices and uses a fan function rather than recorded sounds. I do NOT recommend the ones with recorded sounds because you can hear little beeps and blips in the recording loop which will drive you completely nuts.

And to the person who wondered how a condo is different from a co-op with regards to this type of situation--in a co-op a problem tenant shareholder can be evicted. Not so in a condo.

Steve, we've all been there having horrible neighbors. They do move out eventually. In my experience, the condo board has less power than the individual landlord; some landlords just don't care who they rent to, and aren't responsive to complaints about QOL.

"What was interesting was to see how seemingly powerless the condo board was to do much of anything."

That's because condo boards have about as much power in a building as a PTA does inside a school.

They are out, finally.
Agreed - has been an interesting lesson for when I do plan to buy..
After this, I see no allure in a condo (as a buyer).

And I did try the Marsona, wife hated it. Ended up with a combination of leaving the fan on 24/7 (helped with the smoke as well..), running dishwasher at bedtime, earplugs and not sleeping enough.

"That's because condo boards have about as much power in a building as a PTA does inside a school." ... which is why, all over the nation, there are riots breaking out in condos. Run for the saferoom!

Alan, you'd better lay off the early PM mimosas.

Good thing they moved out before they go could do real damage by tipping the staff.