Why the hate? Hate on TS for f'ing it up and for using Dick Cheney tactics to dislodge RS tenants (not saying there wasn't some abuse but they went too far).Hate on Met Life for not maintaining it in optimal condition for years. But the complexes themselves are gorgeous. I was just over there, sitting by a fountain... people want residences near parks, this is virtually IN one. Now I wouldn't want... [more]
Why the hate? Hate on TS for f'ing it up and for using Dick Cheney tactics to dislodge RS tenants (not saying there wasn't some abuse but they went too far).Hate on Met Life for not maintaining it in optimal condition for years. But the complexes themselves are gorgeous. I was just over there, sitting by a fountain... people want residences near parks, this is virtually IN one. Now I wouldn't want to live there for one reason--lack of convenience access to the subway. But that's my personal priority and I don't have a family.
People talk about "kid friendly" neighborhoods like the UWS, Tribeca and Park Slope (ST/PVC doesn't allow for ownership at least for now I understand that is a big consideration ) but I can't imagine a better place for kids. There are a zillion of them all over. All ages. Even, gasp, different colors. (Can't speak to economic diversity but I suspect its a real rarity for Manhattan, not much presence at the high and low extremes--concentration in the middle.) Why not? There are playgrounds, basketball courts, open fields, fountains and just about everything else a kid needs to have fun. (No pool but the Y on 14th street has a great one). If I'm not mistaken, both complexes are zoned for PS 40, a fantastic school. There is also Ephiphany, one of the top Catholic schools in the city nearby and its even convenient to the uptown private schools (per a parent)--which are probably more affordable if you live in Sty Town than if you live in Tribeca. Plus I think its great for kids to grow up with a hundred surrogate great grandmothers around them (at this point, while the senior set is definitely there I see more strollers than walkers), it helps them to learn respect for the elderly and infirm.
I know this sounds like a commercial. I assure you I wasn't compensated (alas) nor am I naive to many internal issues with apartments and the fact that rents on renovated units are hardly cheap. But since we seem to spend a lot of time on city vs burbs this seems like it could be "80% of all worlds if not best of any".
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Response by NYCMatt
over 15 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
"Why the hate?"
Horrible location and it looks and feels like living in the projects.
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Response by lowery
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1415
Member since: Mar 2008
back when it was rent stabilized, landing an apartment there was the Holy Grail
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Response by lizyank
over 15 years ago
Posts: 907
Member since: Oct 2006
I will give you the location but please. Walk through ST/PVC and then walk through even the best of the projects (Elliot, Amsterdam)... I'm not aware of projects with fountains, landscaping, meticulously clean grounds, wonderful diversity of canine residents that does not include unneutered pit bulls (nothing against pits, all pets need to be spay/neutered)and a very pleasant vibe among the various generations.
ST/PVC is no more like a project (at least from the outside) than any post war apartment complex: Manhattan House, any of the BPC areas. I could see that point for more the Grand Street co-ops and some of the other Mitchell Lama buildings but all of them have features (balconies,central air, dishwashers) that clearly differentiated them from NYCHA properties.
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Response by spinnaker1
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1670
Member since: Jan 2008
Excuse me Liz, I'm not anal or anything, just want to clear this up for the kids following at home. The place sounds wonderful btw.
PVC - polyvinyl chloride
PCV - peter cooper village
I lived there once for about five years and paid $850 and would move back in a minute BUT...it does have the feel of government housing and I was never at ease telling people where I lived because friends would always ask why I would live there.
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Response by lizyank
over 15 years ago
Posts: 907
Member since: Oct 2006
Hey Spin... as you can the New York City Board of Education, even the fabled PS 41, did not do a good job of diagnosing or treating dyslexia--especially in kids whose reading comprehension scores were off the charts (yeah I know what everyone is thinking but remember that was before alcohol and drugs).
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Response by aboutready
over 15 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007
hate it or love it, it is what it is. and not quite what it was. if, as it is for us, it is convenient (and it is both hugely convenient for school and walking to and from work) , it makes sense on so many levels. not to mention the rs rent. and the fact that we are a 10-20 minute walk from so many things we enjoy.
Julia, you're a wimp. please. my husband's best friend grew up in stytown. no money issues there. americans really need to get over their issues about dwellings. particularly as so few invite people over anyway.
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Response by alanhart
over 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
I think part of the problem with large developments from that era is that they tried to create a new, utopian "towers in the park" environment BUT used red/brown brick to try to appease neighborhood traditionalists. And it's that brick, in combination for its unornamented design and window layouts, that make it a bit problematic. If those buildings were built for the upper-middle classes, they'd have cutting-edge materials like glazed bricks instead. And maybe a bit more in the way of windows.
Today's approach to building in historic districts recognizes that trying to fit in really doesn't work, so it tends to be radically different bold design that gets approved -- different materials, different forms, different doodads from the surrounding historical stuff.
As for location, you could do a lot worse than "East Village adjacent".
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Response by inonada
over 15 years ago
Posts: 7930
Member since: Oct 2008
I think the "issue" is the projects look of the place: non-descript brick exteriors, despite the fanciness on the interiors. I think the Julia attitude is common to many. I live in a nice big space nowadays, but even when I lived in smaller less-nice spaces, I'd still have people over without personal issues. I don't feel defined by that which I do or don't have, at least I don't want to be. Not all people feel that way, but they should. Many people, believe it or not, are more embarassed by having "too much" rather than "too little" and would just as well avoid the issue. Like dogs we are social creatures, and the desire to "belong" is very strong.
Back to Stuy Town, let the people out there view it in a negative light. I like the idea of the place remaining lower-priced because of image issues so that the "right" type of people can enjoy it.
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Response by julia
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2841
Member since: Feb 2007
Ar...your last comment about never having people over is so right..it's amazing, living out of state i was constantly giving and going to dinner parties and living in manhattan i never once had people over, always meeting at restaurants, etc. As i said I would live there in a minute if the prices came down a little more, size of rooms are terrific, etc.
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Response by Riversider
over 15 years ago
Posts: 13572
Member since: Apr 2009
It depends on the type of residence one owns as well. Apartments with bigger kitchens and large dining rooms make it possible to have company over. If your dealing with an apartment with only a basic kitchen and/or miniscule dining area, then having guests over for dinner,etc is not really an option.
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Response by lizyank
over 15 years ago
Posts: 907
Member since: Oct 2006
I get what people say about the building design BUT IMO at least they have aged extraordinarily well. Probably due to the landscaping and the maturity of the trees. (Full disclosure I live in red brick postwar building, albeit low rise, that some would no doubt say was straight from the Erich Honecker school of architecture.)
Alan I'm not sure about window design (and certainly there would have been central air from Day One) but Manhattan House is an example of post war design for the carriage trade. Is it any more appealing? One would argue the white brick is less (Manhattan House is younger than ST/PCV but same general era)
Finally, I'd like to see how examples of the stereotype early 21st century glass box look in 50 years...(In fact I'd LOVE to be alive to see it). I suspect it may not be so pretty. Only time will tell.....
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Response by lizyank
over 15 years ago
Posts: 907
Member since: Oct 2006
PS agree East Village adjacency is a great advantage. My only issue with ST/PCV location is subway access. Of course if you are near 14th and 1st you have the L on the corner but unless you work in Williamsburgh, Bushwick, East New York or Canarsie, that's merely a "train to the train".
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Response by Riversider
over 15 years ago
Posts: 13572
Member since: Apr 2009
Agree its nice to see areas that keep grass and trees. But the short brick buildings are ugly.
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Response by aboutready
over 15 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007
i have a full-sized dining table and a 12 foot nicely renovated kitchen. no problems there. interior-wise the windows are fine. exterior-wise, it's not a beauty, but i agree with liz, a lot of the condo and coop (and rental, of course)buildings in the city won't win any prize for beauty. everyone has priorities, and i need light, and decent ceiling height. i don't really have a problem with red brick.
i entertained all the time in seattle in a smaller one bedroom apartment, and overseas in a huge loft, i didn't entertain at all in the chelsea loft. i'm going to step up my efforts and try and have friends over more often in the city. oddly the friends we see the most frequently don't even live in the tri-state area.
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Response by cccharley
over 15 years ago
Posts: 903
Member since: Sep 2008
that always happens AR- I see my friends who travel into town but rarely see my friends who live close by in the suburbs. So odd how that happens. I also entertained in my one bedroom apts and studio - I had dinner parties from 6-16 people at one time or another. Now I rarely do - maybe it's parenthood
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Response by aboutready
over 15 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007
i have a friend from college, roommates for three years, bridesmaids for each other, lives on the uws. no falling out, or anything, but i see her maybe once every five years. and we really like each other. but she never had any kids. i think you're right. unless your local friends have children at roughly the same time you do it seems to be hard to keep it going through the early years of parenting.
rs, i think at least half of the new developments are butt ugly, and as they were extremely expensive to build as well (not to mention the cost to buy a unit, any number of which don't have even basically functional kitchens), i find them far more offensive.
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Response by newaccount
over 15 years ago
Posts: 332
Member since: Jun 2008
- white brick is much uglier than red brick.
- glass towers will age in time and look blah.
- new construction is overpriced and you'll get taxed to death when abatements expire.
- red brick beats tenement living.
'/%3e%3c/g%3e%3c/svg%3e)
"Why the hate?"
Horrible location and it looks and feels like living in the projects.
back when it was rent stabilized, landing an apartment there was the Holy Grail
I will give you the location but please. Walk through ST/PVC and then walk through even the best of the projects (Elliot, Amsterdam)... I'm not aware of projects with fountains, landscaping, meticulously clean grounds, wonderful diversity of canine residents that does not include unneutered pit bulls (nothing against pits, all pets need to be spay/neutered)and a very pleasant vibe among the various generations.
ST/PVC is no more like a project (at least from the outside) than any post war apartment complex: Manhattan House, any of the BPC areas. I could see that point for more the Grand Street co-ops and some of the other Mitchell Lama buildings but all of them have features (balconies,central air, dishwashers) that clearly differentiated them from NYCHA properties.
Excuse me Liz, I'm not anal or anything, just want to clear this up for the kids following at home. The place sounds wonderful btw.
PVC - polyvinyl chloride
PCV - peter cooper village
I think all its missing is a good video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu_iurMP0FE
I lived there once for about five years and paid $850 and would move back in a minute BUT...it does have the feel of government housing and I was never at ease telling people where I lived because friends would always ask why I would live there.
Hey Spin... as you can the New York City Board of Education, even the fabled PS 41, did not do a good job of diagnosing or treating dyslexia--especially in kids whose reading comprehension scores were off the charts (yeah I know what everyone is thinking but remember that was before alcohol and drugs).
hate it or love it, it is what it is. and not quite what it was. if, as it is for us, it is convenient (and it is both hugely convenient for school and walking to and from work) , it makes sense on so many levels. not to mention the rs rent. and the fact that we are a 10-20 minute walk from so many things we enjoy.
Julia, you're a wimp. please. my husband's best friend grew up in stytown. no money issues there. americans really need to get over their issues about dwellings. particularly as so few invite people over anyway.
I think part of the problem with large developments from that era is that they tried to create a new, utopian "towers in the park" environment BUT used red/brown brick to try to appease neighborhood traditionalists. And it's that brick, in combination for its unornamented design and window layouts, that make it a bit problematic. If those buildings were built for the upper-middle classes, they'd have cutting-edge materials like glazed bricks instead. And maybe a bit more in the way of windows.
Today's approach to building in historic districts recognizes that trying to fit in really doesn't work, so it tends to be radically different bold design that gets approved -- different materials, different forms, different doodads from the surrounding historical stuff.
As for location, you could do a lot worse than "East Village adjacent".
I think the "issue" is the projects look of the place: non-descript brick exteriors, despite the fanciness on the interiors. I think the Julia attitude is common to many. I live in a nice big space nowadays, but even when I lived in smaller less-nice spaces, I'd still have people over without personal issues. I don't feel defined by that which I do or don't have, at least I don't want to be. Not all people feel that way, but they should. Many people, believe it or not, are more embarassed by having "too much" rather than "too little" and would just as well avoid the issue. Like dogs we are social creatures, and the desire to "belong" is very strong.
Back to Stuy Town, let the people out there view it in a negative light. I like the idea of the place remaining lower-priced because of image issues so that the "right" type of people can enjoy it.
Ar...your last comment about never having people over is so right..it's amazing, living out of state i was constantly giving and going to dinner parties and living in manhattan i never once had people over, always meeting at restaurants, etc. As i said I would live there in a minute if the prices came down a little more, size of rooms are terrific, etc.
It depends on the type of residence one owns as well. Apartments with bigger kitchens and large dining rooms make it possible to have company over. If your dealing with an apartment with only a basic kitchen and/or miniscule dining area, then having guests over for dinner,etc is not really an option.
I get what people say about the building design BUT IMO at least they have aged extraordinarily well. Probably due to the landscaping and the maturity of the trees. (Full disclosure I live in red brick postwar building, albeit low rise, that some would no doubt say was straight from the Erich Honecker school of architecture.)
Alan I'm not sure about window design (and certainly there would have been central air from Day One) but Manhattan House is an example of post war design for the carriage trade. Is it any more appealing? One would argue the white brick is less (Manhattan House is younger than ST/PCV but same general era)
Finally, I'd like to see how examples of the stereotype early 21st century glass box look in 50 years...(In fact I'd LOVE to be alive to see it). I suspect it may not be so pretty. Only time will tell.....
PS agree East Village adjacency is a great advantage. My only issue with ST/PCV location is subway access. Of course if you are near 14th and 1st you have the L on the corner but unless you work in Williamsburgh, Bushwick, East New York or Canarsie, that's merely a "train to the train".
Agree its nice to see areas that keep grass and trees. But the short brick buildings are ugly.
i have a full-sized dining table and a 12 foot nicely renovated kitchen. no problems there. interior-wise the windows are fine. exterior-wise, it's not a beauty, but i agree with liz, a lot of the condo and coop (and rental, of course)buildings in the city won't win any prize for beauty. everyone has priorities, and i need light, and decent ceiling height. i don't really have a problem with red brick.
i entertained all the time in seattle in a smaller one bedroom apartment, and overseas in a huge loft, i didn't entertain at all in the chelsea loft. i'm going to step up my efforts and try and have friends over more often in the city. oddly the friends we see the most frequently don't even live in the tri-state area.
that always happens AR- I see my friends who travel into town but rarely see my friends who live close by in the suburbs. So odd how that happens. I also entertained in my one bedroom apts and studio - I had dinner parties from 6-16 people at one time or another. Now I rarely do - maybe it's parenthood
i have a friend from college, roommates for three years, bridesmaids for each other, lives on the uws. no falling out, or anything, but i see her maybe once every five years. and we really like each other. but she never had any kids. i think you're right. unless your local friends have children at roughly the same time you do it seems to be hard to keep it going through the early years of parenting.
rs, i think at least half of the new developments are butt ugly, and as they were extremely expensive to build as well (not to mention the cost to buy a unit, any number of which don't have even basically functional kitchens), i find them far more offensive.
- white brick is much uglier than red brick.
- glass towers will age in time and look blah.
- new construction is overpriced and you'll get taxed to death when abatements expire.
- red brick beats tenement living.
http://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/41068-peter-cooper-village-lottery