Intervention Helped Avert a 2nd Depression

How many troops do we have in England, Italy, Portugal and the Netherlands? Do you have any clue.

And yes, removing our presence in Germany would be a disaster. How much more emboldened would Russia be if we had no presence in Europe? Are you that obtuse? Why don't we just get out of Korea while you are at it???

Pres, I guess you wouldn't care about any Americans that would have been killed in more terrorist attacks if we had not taken military action in Afghanistan. Your position is so naive it would be comical if we weren't talking about something so serious.

aboutready calling someone else a partisan hack job???? Priceless irony . . .

"you just keep repeating the same wrong things. Revenues were up in 2006-2008."

I prove your point? Let us recall the name of the Bush tax cuts: "Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001."

That's right, 2001. 2002. 2003. 2004. 2005. That's how many years in a row taxes were DOWN after the Bush tax cuts. Eventually, revenues go up. But the fact is, if the supply-side theory worked, revenue would have gone up in 2002.

So yes, eventually revenues did go up. And so did the deficit.
Clinton:

1998 Surplus $92 billion
1999 Surplus $165 billion
2000 Surplus $302 billion
2001 Surplus $160 billion

Bush:

2002 Deficit $194 billion
2003 Deficit $452 billion
2004 Deficit $480 billion
2005 Deficit $357 billion
2006 Deficit $269 billion
2007 Deficit $170 billion
2008 deficit $467 billion

Facts are facts, IT DIDN'T WORK.

"taxes were DOWN" = "revenue was down"

Oops!

"How much more emboldened would Russia be if we had no presence in Europe?"

OMG. How far into 1967 is your mind stuck?

The U.S. economy was in recession when Clinton left office. Revenues go down during recessions. Try to understand steve, please try.

I guess Russia's military incursion into Georgia happened in 1967?? Russia cut off gas supplies through Ukraine in 1967?

steve=WRONG

steve, why didn't you keep going and show Obama's deficit?

I guess the US military presence in Germany is doing a whole bunch of good: Russia's military incursion into Georgia, Russia cut off gas supplies through Ukraine. Next the Soviets are going to march into Czechoslovakia again, right?

Or perhaps we'll go to war with the Russians because nobody in Poland can turn on the oven?

This I love: Re Bush's revenues: "The U.S. economy was in recession when Clinton left office. Revenues go down during recessions."

Re Obama: "why didn't you keep going and show Obama's deficit?"

Because the economy was in a RECESSION when Obama took office. Revenues go down during recessions.

HAHAHAHA!

LICC is now claiming that revenues went down during the Bush administration, and deficits went up, because the economy was in a (slight) recession. Had nothing to do with the tax cuts, or the unfunded war that's not included in the Heritage Foundation's figures, 'cause George I left them out, and Obama put them back in.

Please. It's not just intellectually dishonest, it's bad economic policy. There are no empirical data to support "supply-side economics."

Period.

Which is why LICC don't post none.

There is no Czechoslovakia steve. That just typifies steve- wrong facts, wrong on everything.

When it comes to economics, steve is stuck in the 1970s. When it comes to Eastern Europe, he made it to the 1980s.

steve also loves making up things I say and then criticizing what he made up. Sad.

I place most of the blame for the deficits on uncontrolled, excessive government spending.

steve cannot substantively argue against the analyses showing Keynesianism is a failure, which is why he constantly posts lies, mistakes, misdirections and insults.

Sad.

Actually, I started this thread with a post on how Keynesian economics had saved us from a Depression. I'm still waiting for your retort.

There is no Czechoslovakia? REALLY? WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN?

Czechoslovakia. Wow. I can't wait to see how steve tries to lie and misdirect his way out of this one.

steve, maybe you should take a vacation in Yugoslavia, Prussia and Bohemia, and then get back to us on Czechoslovakia.

Maybe I should. Or - maybe I should go back to the Roman Empire, analyse why it collapsed, and write a report on how similar the modern-day United States is to way back then?

"Much of the costs for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have not been funded through regular appropriations bills, but through emergency supplemental appropriations bills. As such, most of these expenses were not included in the budget deficit calculation prior to FY2010."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#Budgetary_treatment_of_Iraq_.26_Afghanistan_war_expenses

More Republican budgetary legerdemain. Bush's deficits were even higher - Republicans like to go off on how much bigger today's budget deficit is, but the truth is merely that now everything gets counted.

VOTE BLUE!

How is that vacation planning to Czechoslovakia coming along steve?

steve?

Sorry, LICC, I needed new underwear.

Err, ok. sorry to hear that. Feel better.

I'm fine now, thanks. Some of your comments are so outrageous they make me shit in my pants.

> Flat tax is unfair
> Define "fair". I guarantee that you will not get the same answer from everyone.

Flat tax is certainly more fair than the system we have now.

> Privatizing social security doesn't work because people simply don't save for retirement.

Bad logic.

Steve is confused between forced vs. unforced savings vs. who hold the money.

Forcing savings is what remedies people not saving for retirement.
That the government does dumb things with the money doesn't help with the saving for retirement.
Its the... well, forcing savings.

Dealing with choices for investment, public or private, doesn't change the savings, just what is done with it.

The flat tax is the least biased way to tax. Those that say it's "unfair" have this biased notion that those that earn more need to pay more, and those that earn less deserve to be subsidized. Fairness is subjective, an opinion and not an objective view of anything.

"How many troops do we have in England, Italy, Portugal and the Netherlands? Do you have any clue."

Ever use Wikipedia? You should try it, it's great!

Italy – 9,855
United Kingdom – 9,825
Portugal – 826
Netherlands – 579

"And yes, removing our presence in Germany would be a disaster. How much more emboldened would Russia be if we had no presence in Europe?"

Russia certainly did not care about US troops in Germany when they invaded Georgia 2 years ago.

"Pres, I guess you wouldn't care about any Americans that would have been killed in more terrorist attacks if we had not taken military action in Afghanistan."

There are currently less than 100 Al Qaeda members in Afghanistan. That's not coming from me, that's coming from the national security advisor. Currently we are fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, NOT AL Qaeda. The Taliban never attacked the US.

"The flat tax is the least biased way to tax. Those that say it's "unfair" have this biased notion that those that earn more need to pay more, and those that earn less deserve to be subsidized. Fairness is subjective, an opinion and not an objective view of anything."

totally... and lets not forget that every flat tax proposal I've seen isn't actually flat at the bottom, there are generous credits and such, making it actually progressive. "flat" really just means simplified, without lots of the self-defeating wacky credits and time wasters removed.

and, btw, on the privatization point, before anyone screams that I'm pushing privatization of SS, I'm not... I'm just pointing out the flaw in the argument when confusing the two pieces.

> The Taliban never attacked the US.

Hosting and supporting the people attacking (not to mention blowing up the embassies in Africa)... your point is moronic.

Fact is, UN Security Council AND NATO both approved the overthrow of the Taliban on these grounds.

"There is a problem with social security, but not for a long time, & it's easily fixed. It currently has a huge surplus."

Thats as moronic as the politicians in NYS saying 10 years ago that we have no pension problem because we don't have to pay it yet.

Calling it a "surplus" is simply wrong, and the courts have made that clear.

If you borrow $100 from someone, and only spend $10, you certainly don't have a $90 surplus.

Pres's arguments are ridiculously awful. Laughable.

Yes, I am sure Russia very much had in mind the U.S. troops when it entered Georgia, which is a major reason why it pulled back except for the two disputed regions. It knew it could only do so much. Russia would not do anything of the sort to a NATO country, mainly because of the U.S. troop presence in Germany and elsewhere in Europe.

The Taliban supplied shelter and support to Al Qaeda. They are closely linked. I'm sorry but it is both idiotic and disgusting to say that we should not have taken military action in Afghanistan after 9-11.

What if Russia just flew over Germany, landed directly in France on their way to Andorra?

That'd show'em, no!? Make the Maginot Line and the Atlantic Wall look silly - why did we spend all that money on last month's technology?

"I'm sorry but it is both idiotic and disgusting to say that we should not have taken military action in Afghanistan after 9-11."

I NEVER said we should not have taken military action after 9/11. We should have. But 9 years later, it is time to stop the war.

"Russia would not do anything of the sort to a NATO country, mainly because of the U.S. troop presence in Germany and elsewhere in Europe."

Yes, I'm sure Putin is afraid of the 579 US troops in the Netherlands. And Putin does not have to invade a country to defeat it. They can just flick the switch off on their natural gas supplies.

Arguing that Social Security is solvent because it uses cash-flow and not accrual accounting......
It's not a lie if you believe it George!

Notice how steve just cannot admit when he is wrong, even when he is blatantly mistaken, he can't admit it. He posts here like a know-it-all about Eastern Europe security and he doesn't even know what countries exist and do not exist! (Czechoslovakia- WOW)

And when he is called on it, instead of admitting that he was wrong and doesn't know what he is talking about, he tries to misdirect by saying he crapped in his pants and had to change his underwear. Very nice . . .

Oh, please, LIC!

The intervention was necessary in the short term. Hard to argue against it. But until we otherwise choke our government, reduce taxes, reduce government spending on all current AND past programs including bloated pensions, we won't have the appropriate private sector growth, employment growth, long term growth, and success in our economy. We also need to close our borders and end this false program for children born in the US to non US parents which is not the intention or language of the 14th amendment.

> I NEVER said we should not have taken military action after 9/11. We should have. But 9 years later,
> it is time to stop the war.

Now "we're not down 20%, show me one example!" alpo is a military expert, too.

So, you just push the STOP button?

Is rogerst=riversider?

> Arguing that Social Security is solvent because it uses cash-flow and not accrual accounting......
It's not a lie if you believe it George!

RMAO ... also those that say "SS is just fine! there a TRUST FUND!"

oh my, there's no scarcity of fools around. it's amazing to me that for some the writing is on the wall about entitlements for a while now, but for many it's still just a hate/conspiracy attack against the best program ever implemented...

cannot blame them though. what's best anyway? seeing the tsunami when you cannot run for the hill or looking the other way enjoying yourself before it hits?