Long Island City is the next hot neighborhood

"Then the ignorant haters came out, who don't even know anything about the area, to insult it."

I have ties to Long Island City much older than yours, LICC: my father grew up in the Queensbridge Houses, went, along with my cousins, to Long Island City High...

...and they were all piss-poor. The neighborhood has been touted as "The New Black" since Citibank built that building. But the truth remains unaltered: barring one nice-ish street, it's a hellhole.

HA- I live in LIC and its an awesome neighborhood. I read this headline and I knew stevejhx and alanharts heads exploded. These two have some crazy weirdo bizarre sicko obsession with LIC. You guys sound like a crazy person in front of port authority wearing a diaper on your head screaming about LIC. What exactly happened? It must have been a very traumatic experience for you to go full turrets when it comes to the mention of a NYC neighborhood. What ever you do, do not ever visit Camdem NJ or you would probably have to check yourself into the nervous hospital.

I"ve been to Camden ... it's a beautiful old city, great aquarium, great architecture, etc. I think Campbell's Soup comes from there. Mmm Mmm Good.

District of Overbuilt Underserviced Condo Housing Eyesores Between Astoria/Greenpoint

I don't know about wearing a diaper, but drinking the water from the Newtown Creek will certainly give you more than the runs.

Steve, how often do you drink out of the Hudson River? This might explain a lot actually.

Actually, triathlons are held regularly in the Hudson off of Manhattan -- swimming. Can the same be said for the East River off of Long Island City (let alone Newtown Creek)?

alan, I'm sure they encourage you to drink the water too, since swimming is strenuous exercise after all. Highly potable.

I'm not saying the Hudson is made of sidecars, but it's not a brownfield either. And I'm sure your building wasn't built on a brownfield ... correct?

beatyerputz, that's a very good descriptive name for the part of Long Island City that LICcomm focuses obsessively on, to the exclusion of all that's around him ... but it's simply too long to function as a neighorhood name. If only there were a shorter version of it. One can dream, can't one?

Manhattan pricing has come down to LIC pricing. Why take a train to work when you can walk?

I'm not saying Newtown Creek isn't polluted, but sorry if I'm just a wee bit bored with hearing about it in at least 50 threads on here. Let LICC have his shilling pleasures. I doubt anyone here is actually purchasing anything based on his links and rhetoric, and even if they are, I'm not sure there's much you can do about it - I don't get the need to combat it at every turn.

no fair -- LICC gets to shill, but i'm not allowed to unshill ??

LICC gets to shill
hopes another will
foot bill
for his piece of landfill

Excelsior!

Though I personally wouldn't do it, bjw, people do drink Hudson River water & eat fish from there. AH is right - they routinely hold swimming marathons there, & I know people who have swam the race, accidentally imbibed the water, & lived to tell.

Wb is right - we have a constitutional right to unshill.

I refuse to take sides, so I will have to say that both stevejhx AND w67thstreet are right.

Hahahhhahhaahhaaaaaaa 'unshill'. Hahahhahhahahaaa

GREAT LINE ALANHART.

Everyone else unshill away!

That's Wbottom's bottom line, not minez.

I meant 'do not take sides'. :)

Unshill is applebottoms.

wouldn't it be interesting if steve, alan, in LICC were all the same person?

No. I'd become suicidal.

mwade, well, I do know that LICC and steve will one day end up together. The passion between them burns brighter than most suns. And even some of the stuff at the bottom of the creek. They will own a cozy condo right above Gantry, with TWO balconies. I will laugh.

... with a Radioactive Romeo below each balcony. Star-crossed lovers in a starless terrain. Black comedy with no soul.

me mind on fire
me soul on fire
feeling hot hot hot
all the people
all around me
feeling hot hot hot
oh what to do
on a night like this
is it sweet?
i can't resist
we meet and party hard
a phardemental charm

alanhart is apparently anti Long Island City and anti Israel
http://www.alanhart.net/zionism-and-peace-are-incompatible/#more-1298

How come Juicy doesn't post some pics with him, the wife, and the Juicelet living happily ever after in Long Island City - you know, the Family Angle that he loved so much about it! Post some snaps in the park, or with a metal detector checking for needles on Water Taxi Beach.

HAHAHAHAHA!

http://tinyurl.com/2ehbj8u

Nothing like a mullet to relieve stress.

I have explored LIC several times in the past two years, and am keeping tabs on the improvements and changes. My most recent trip I was intrigued by the underground construction in the once-barren area between Queens Plaza and Court Square. I'm a history buff, and I like to watch change, so this was a real treat for me (no sarcasm). Is it an expanded Court Square subway station/transfer point being put in? Or is it a trench for more cable lines, sewer, power, water, etc.?

I looked wistfully down some lifeless streets of warehouses that end in the Sunnyside Yards, wondering if they'd become cute little corners for loftseekers to dwell in, or remain underused storage space, or what. I am baffled by the megbuildings being built on the south side of Queens Plaza, whether offices is the plan or more condos.

I have already noticed one or two blocks of row houses between Court Square and the playground, how they have improved. I have already pointed out that parts of LIC have the potential to be QUIET, and that some older folks place a premium on that commodity. I have noticed a new commercial strip coming to life along the way to the Pulaski Bridge. I love Gantry Park as a destination spot for views and quiet.

But I love to join in in Steve's and alan's gleeful putdowns, because those who love the new LIC have a certain naivete that's irresistible. LIC is overpriced for what it is. It's the same story in many new developments slightly outside Manhattan - you have to price lower than Manhattan to draw the yuppies, but now that the market for new developments has sagged, well .................. if LIC'rs decide to go back to the City and can't sell, I doubt they'll break even "renting it out."

But mostly these threads are illuminating for their nastiness, MY neighborhood is simply GLAM; and YOURS is a DUMP. Therein lies the essence of real estate in New York City. A car is a car is a car is a car, but the prices are all over the map.

That's the spookiest thing about LICcomm: he sounds like he almost believes his neighborhood is GLAM ... but then you realize he's simply shilling, or trying to anyway.

BJW, you seem to be kind of down lately:

bjw2103
1 day ago
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My 2 cents: I find LICComment to be pretty boorish at times and a bit disingenuous about the quality of life in his neighborhood, but LIC is (hopefully obviously) not nearly as bad as steve and alan portray it. But the neighborhood bashing bs is so tired - the amount of time steve has spent finding links, cutting and pasting, and generally talking about LIC demands a compromised social life at this point. Not to mention it's pretty annoying after a while. JuiceMan is spot on.

bjw2103
about 9 hours ago
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The site, unfortunately has lost a lot of its appeal to me. Part of it is the troll, part of it is other posters' obsession with him/her, which dilutes the content on here even more.

Cheer up, there's new drama every day. apt23 was just outed as the troll: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/23332 or http://tinyurl.com/2cjmamd or http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/23347-apt23-outed-as-the-actual-troll

I think LIC is a nicer neighborhood than downtown Brooklyn.

I think LIC is a nicer neighborhood than Chernobyl.

There. I said it. Hate me.

i would prefer life in LIC to life in Rikers

that's just me though

to each his/her own

i would prefer life in Hart Island to life in LIC

that's just me though

to each his/her own

No takers on Chernobyl?

I am not the bigest fan of LIC I know the neighborhood vey well and it leaves much to be desired however they are not cutting prices on all those new condos so people must be buying there

LICC doesn't even realize the irony of his IP: "is the NEXT hot neighborhood."

Meaning, of course, that it's not hot yet. Rundown yes, hot no.

well people are buying why do u hate lic so much I mean if you hate it so much why are you always posting about it

steve loses every argument he has with me and I make him look like a fool each time. This bothers him so much that he obsesses about LIC and feels the need to insult it whenever he can, even though he knows nothing about LIC and all his dumb comments make look even more dysfunctional.

You forgot the word "me" before the final "look", LICcomm.

Maybe the author meant "hot" as in stolen. Stolen, abused for 100 years, then tossed away like garbage.

"steve loses every argument he has with me and I make him look like a fool each time."

Well, delusion is in the eyes of the beholder.

"even though he knows nothing about LIC": I know there's a Duane Reade, bounded by the Queensbridge Houses, the Newtown Creek, the LIRR rail yards, and Water Taxi Beach.

Water Taxi Beach: HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Steve you say the same thing over and over again ok you dont like LIC can understand y but get over it Id be intrested in a serious discussion you repeat the same old thngs but people are still buying there so I guess Newtown Creek dosnt matter that much

And people are still buying children's toys with lead paint. Steve's performing a public service by alerting everyone to the realities on the ground in Long Island City. Not just on the ground, but in the water and the air, too. You should praise him.

Vigilance!

Just an fyi all of nyc has the same public water source so unless your are drinking water from Newtown Creek it should not be an issue I would be more concerned with air quality by L haus for instance due to its proximity to tunnel but oher than that not much difference in air quality in manhattan both are horrible

I have nothing against Long Island City, or Seacaucus, New Jersey. I'm just a realist: both dumps.

Are LIC and Chernobyl Sister Cities?

Im wondering if anyone other then Licman and Licomment actually live and like lic I would be curious to hear from others

Secaucus has a pretty good New Jersey Transit station.

alanhart
about 3 hours ago
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Are LIC and Chernobyl Sister Cities?

Yes they are alan, good insight.

True, Secaucus's fancy new train station is superawesome.

Of course, LIC has Hunterspoint Avenue Station ... state of the art. The Nouveau Art (1914 rebuild). Well, if had any artistic elements at all it would be Art Nouveau. But it is exciting to descend those long narrow stairways from the Long Island City Highlands down down to the open-air station.

I understand that sperm quality declines in Long Island City. They scooped the one sample they took off of LIC's chest.

HAHAHAHA!

It all started with the Chelsea vs LIC discussion last year. Why did Steve move out of Chelsea after that thread????

BECAUSE STEVE NEVER BELIEVES IN HIS OWN BULLSHIT.

This guy defended Chelsea like it's his birth place BUT soon after he move out of the neighborhood, he trashes Chelsea too.

THE GUY IS AN ASSHOLE.

And Alan Hart...

He's just an idiot.

Well, Chernobyl has some things to recommend, you guys, so just cool it. Although I haven't visited, I imagine it must be quiet, and that is a real plus. Now, Hart's Island is being mentioned. Shhhhh..... don't give condo developers any ideas. You know, Ward's Island could be developed if they'd just get rid of all those ballfields.

No - I still like Chelsea, especially the shopping. It's the one thing I miss.

hey you could always move into creedmore, if you like the location

What shopping?

"don't give condo developers any ideas" ... I'm sure they've seen Poltergeist; they wouldn't dare.

Isn't Chernobyl Eastern Europe's breadbasket? It must be lovely this time of year.

Creedmore is the exclusive domain of a certain SE poster who's really tight with the troll ... construction there would turn her from a raving lunatic into a stark raving mad lunatic. Sad.

lots of talk on by alan hart on Long Island City and on Israel

Creedmoor was a pyschiatric center not far from my high school

Was your high school in Long Island City?

No my sperm count was/is high.

That's what your taste buds say.

This seems to be like Williamsburg, maybe a smaller overall acceptable area to live in but better quality new high rises and better transportation.

I thought that was really funny.

I know a guy that went to H.S. in LIC.

Sperm as big as cats I tell you.
Don't know about the count.

Test the pH. You might be surprised - cats have nothing to do with it.

Is "pH" slang for public housing?

Because that test would take a really long time to complete. Largest housing project in the nation, they say.

And that's not including the thousands of units of new low-income housing that's being built.

low income housing is subsidized, no?

kind of a "redistribution" component to that, no?

as in take tax dollars from the hard-working successful, and use those dollars to build housing for the lazy--

what's really cool is that LIC will be able to witness the results of this....

IN HIS OWN FRONT YARD!!!! right where he lives!!

as a known fan of redistribution via tax policy, and an egalitarian, generally, he will see this wonderful process first hand, at home!!

heartwarming this is!!!

WB - I'm quickly becoming a Major Fan of yours!

steve...all joking aside

i am actually really happy for LIC that he may feel a part of a wondeful program such as this

Me, too!

well, if you want egalitarianism, move to Ward's Island and really rub elbows with the other half

That reminds me: why is Long Island City's shoreline called "Hell Gate"? Sailors of yore must have been very reluctant to go to shore there. Just like today.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Long_Island_City_map_1896.jpg

Dutch Kills.

So does the water.

tsk tsk tsk - people don't consider in 2010 the shores of Hell Gate to be in LIC; it's hell because boats sunk there - now, if you want something that conjures up hellish images of inner industrial city as frightening ugliness and danger, take a walk a short distance east of Hunter's Point, via Hunter's Point Avenue, which changes names to 49th Avenue. There's a bridge that crosses Dutch Kill, with "Hunter's Point Steel" on the northeast, and a one-of-a-kind vista up and down Dutch Kill that resembles not so much the set for The Jetson's as for ................... any suggestions?

Link a Google Street View, lowery - I want to hear LICC deny the obvious again.

Steve, I don't know how to do a google street view, but I can give good walking/biking instructions. It's basically 3/4 miles up the hill on the other side of Vernon Jackson, on 49th Avenue/Hunter's Point Avenue, from "the main part of LIC" - this link is mapquest:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Long+Island+City&1s=NY&1a=49th+Ave+%26+27th+St&1z=11101&1y=US&1l=40.74118&1g=-73.9423&1v=INTERSECTION&2c=Long+Island+City&2s=NY&2a=Vernon+Blvd+%26+49th+Ave&2z=11101&2y=US&2l=40.74342&2g=-73.95387&2v=INTERSECTION

and you can use your cursor to get a 360-degree view of the lovely waterway. It looks a lot better on the Internet than it does in person. Much closer to "the main part" is 21-40 Borden Avenue:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Long+Island+City&1s=NY&1a=49th+Ave+%26+27th+St&1z=11101&1y=US&1l=40.74118&1g=-73.9423&1v=INTERSECTION&2c=Long+Island+City&2s=NY&2a=Vernon+Blvd+%26+49th+Ave&2z=11101&2y=US&2l=40.74342&2g=-73.95387&2v=INTERSECTION

Borden is of course only around the corner from L Haus mentioned so frequently on this site, maybe a 10 minute walk from my beloved Gantry Park, southern edge, and if one continues up the hill from the above link, here's my favorite spot in all of LIC, Review Avenue:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Long+Island+City&1s=NY&1a=49th+Ave+%26+27th+St&1z=11101&1y=US&1l=40.74118&1g=-73.9423&1v=INTERSECTION&2c=Long+Island+City&2s=NY&2a=Vernon+Blvd+%26+49th+Ave&2z=11101&2y=US&2l=40.74342&2g=-73.95387&2v=INTERSECTION

parallel to Review is scenic Starr Avenue, here depicted with the new motel to prove its up-to-date status:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Long+Island+City&1s=NY&1a=49th+Ave+%26+27th+St&1z=11101&1y=US&1l=40.74118&1g=-73.9423&1v=INTERSECTION&2c=Long+Island+City&2s=NY&2a=Vernon+Blvd+%26+49th+Ave&2z=11101&2y=US&2l=40.74342&2g=-73.95387&2v=INTERSECTION

don't stop there on your family stroll in the wild outdoors - take in the sights and nonsounds of Railroad Avenue:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Long+Island+City&1s=NY&1a=49th+Ave+%26+27th+St&1z=11101&1y=US&1l=40.74118&1g=-73.9423&1v=INTERSECTION&2c=Long+Island+City&2s=NY&2a=Vernon+Blvd+%26+49th+Ave&2z=11101&2y=US&2l=40.74342&2g=-73.95387&2v=INTERSECTION

and a couple of lovely vistas seen from historic Greenpoint Avenue, once the only thoroughfare to carry weary city dwellers from the Williamsburg Bridge into the happy hunting grounds of Long Island:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Long+Island+City&1s=NY&1a=49th+Ave+%26+27th+St&1z=11101&1y=US&1l=40.74118&1g=-73.9423&1v=INTERSECTION&2c=Long+Island+City&2s=NY&2a=Vernon+Blvd+%26+49th+Ave&2z=11101&2y=US&2l=40.74342&2g=-73.95387&2v=INTERSECTION

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Long+Island+City&1s=NY&1a=49th+Ave+%26+27th+St&1z=11101&1y=US&1l=40.74118&1g=-73.9423&1v=INTERSECTION&2c=Long+Island+City&2s=NY&2a=Vernon+Blvd+%26+49th+Ave&2z=11101&2y=US&2l=40.74342&2g=-73.95387&2v=INTERSECTION

last, but not least, the splendid rowhouses on Greenpoint, between the Greenpoint Avenue Bridge and the entrance to the first of that breathtaking series of cemeteries which provide a "green" belt along the border of Bklyn & Qns:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Long+Island+City&1s=NY&1a=49th+Ave+%26+27th+St&1z=11101&1y=US&1l=40.74118&1g=-73.9423&1v=INTERSECTION&2c=Long+Island+City&2s=NY&2a=Vernon+Blvd+%26+49th+Ave&2z=11101&2y=US&2l=40.74342&2g=-73.95387&2v=INTERSECTION

Admittedly, this last streetscape is over a mile from L Haus, but one thing "the haters" are correct about is that "the main part" of LIC is surrounded by a whole lot of nothing, lots of trucks. We can paste links of view of the West Side railway cut between 10th & 11th, and there are still lots of ugly places in Manhattan, but your point is well taken - Hunter's Point is surrounded by vast nonresidential zones. It is not IN Manhattan, it is "accessible to" Manhattan. But a new city is being built, and there will be a residential zone stretching from Hunter's Point up to Queens Plaza within a few years. You will not get a two-bedroom new construction condo in Midtown Manhattan for $400,000. Ain't gonna happen. The LIC'ers are looking at the future very differently from you. They see a new city springing up outside Manhattan precisely because there's nothing there. You expect Manhattan prices to come down by orders of magnitude.

you can not get a 2 bedroom condo in lic for 400k either lowery what exactly do u mean by that

Buyer11, it means that if steve is waiting for condo/coop prices to reach a point where he can buy something in his area comparable to what he is renting, ain't never gonna happen. People are buying in places like LIC because they are priced out of areas such as where steve is living. It's all about tradeoffs. I think for Steve to hit his equilibrium point he'd have to buy something for around $600,000, and there will be no 2-brms in Clinton for $600,000.

Then he should move to Jersey thanks for the explanation lowery

why should he move to jersey? he's plenty happy renting in manhattan at good value--and if the economics of real estate in clinton hill require that 2 bedrooms sell for 30-40% less (600K) than they do, to compete with renting simlar space; kudos to steve and anyone else renting there--unless you think real estate will soon return to the massive appreciation in values we saw pre-bubble, one would be throwing money away to buy in clinton hill at present.

and lowery, that there is nothing there speaks of the poor investment that lic will remain---as soon as the glut of apts, for sale there presently, shows any hope of being absorbed (a tough prospect unto itself--will take years), developers will continually build new supply in the "nothing there" areas--

lic is possibly the worst place to buy in all of nyc, if one considers long term investment--short term, fugedaboudit

"it means that if steve is waiting for condo/coop prices to reach a point where he can buy something in his area comparable to what he is renting, ain't never gonna happen."

Oh how mistaken thou art. It ALWAYS happens, it has happened since real estate records were first kept some 350 years ago. It happens in a number of ways, including naked price depreciation and price stagnation over time as the nominal value of home prices is eaten away by inflation. There is, was, and always will be a direct relationship between incomes, rents, and owners' carrying costs; the latter two being approximately 30% of gross income.

I don't need to "wait" - I have no desire to own. If something breaks in my building, in my apartment, the owner pays for it. I have a grand total of $7,200 at risk - my deposit. Owning only makes sense when you're in it for the long-term and know it, else you're wasting your money on transaction costs, or when it is massively cheaper than renting to adjust for the significantly higher risk. Or if you absolutely, positively MUST paint your bedroom aubergine.

Steve, "Or if you absolutely, positively MUST paint your bedroom aubergine," you can paint your bedroom aubergine right now, so long as you pay to have it restored to institutional white upon your move out.

I'll be watching, as you will, for that moment to occur when mortgage+maintenance+taxes equals rent, not cheating by subtracting out "tax benefit," but I think your day will never come. I also think your renewal lease will come in at the pre-two-free-months-rent-discount official price listed on your building's web site ($4,000 and change) plus a small percentage increase. You will then ask them to renew at your present net effective rent, they will balk, you will counter with your present net effective rent plus the modest percent increase and their final offer, at best, will be the rent listed on their web page at the time you moved, no free months' rent, no increase. At worst, you will have to pay $4,300.

You will not find a comparable condo in Clinton, Manhattan, for $600,000. You would have to move to Jersey or Brooklyn or LIC if that's what you wanted to do, and you're quite right, the rent on such a unit would not be near $4,000.

"it has happened since real estate records were first kept some 350 years ago. It happens in a number of ways"

Yes, and it also happens that the Big Apple grows and the pecking order of prestige changes in neighborhoods. You've been priced out of Chelsea. You and I both remember when Chelsea was a scarey, dark, dangerous slum. Now you're in a former hellish area that's near Time Warner Center. It's not going down; it's going up. That's the part you're not calculating. But you're doing well for now, and why take on half a million in debt at this stage?

Wbottom, LIC is interesting. I'm not placing any bets either way. It has proximity, but that is all. At least Wmbg and Hoboken and other spillovers were always residential, always had grocery stores. When City Lights went up, the closest grocery stores were in Greenpoint, Astoria and Sunnyside.

the rent/buy disconnect in nyc is based on the incredible bubbling that has gone on since 1990--there have been times in nyc, 74-80 for example, when it was cheaper to buy than to rent: buyers were paid to assume equity risk, and renters paid up to avoid it--since the mid-90's, when we started to bubble, the role reversed and buyers have paid up so as to get their piece of the bubble--all fine and dandy when one was seeing >20% returns for many of those years--game over, and rent remains cheap--it will correct

agree that wburg has more soul as a neighborhood, based on it's residential legacy, and that it's been cool for a while now--as a place to invest in the new constr stock that would compare to lic, wburg is a far better bet; but it has similar supply/demand issues to LIC--as new construction gets absorbed, more and more will be built

Lic tho is simply in the sweet NOT spot--no residential legacy--no cool critcal mass--tons of supply--tons to come as soon as/if current supply gets absorbed

hoboken?....whatever

Believe me, I hear you (and steve) about people paying more to buy than to rent because of the bubble. I thought it was crazy for people to buy new luxury condos for even $800,000 for a one-bedroom, let alone a million. But here we are, three years after the beginning of The Great Recession, and there simply is no flood of desperate sellers unloading their white elephants. Until there are many, many, many more units for sale, and lots of desperate short sales and foreclosures chasing after the dwindling number of buyers, prices will not come down to what I agree with Steve on would be an equilibrium. I suggested haggling over the fate of 45 Park units, since at least it's unit for sale versus the same unit for rent, but even there, the nut depends on the mortgage rates, whether a person factors in "tax savings," if so, what their bracket is (presumably the top for those prices), yaddadaddadda. Inventory is not swelling like a tsunami, prices not plunging over a cliff like lemmings.

I mentioned "Hoboken" as a generic - Hoboken, Jersey City, the suburbs of Brooklyn Heights (the granddaddy of all outer borough close-in yuppie enclaves), now Williamsburg, Greenpoint, LIC and Astoria - in fact, through in all of Manhattan north of 96th on the East Side and 110th on the West Side - developers seek to attract overflow buyers priced out of Manhattan between the Bowery and 96th Street. Twenty years ago you could see this overflow happening within Manhattan below 96th. Soho, spilled over into "Noho" and Tribeca, the West Village pushed would-be residents into Chelsea, then into Hell's Kitchen. W. 86th Street was once a psychological dividing line, then it got pushed up to W. 96th, then beyond....

alan and steve have a good point in ridiculing LIC, and they are not alone - it has never had a residential critical mass, cool or otherwise. There were houses squeezed in between warehouses and factories, there were even a few blocks that were 100% residential, but very few, and there was never a residential neighborhood. Jersey City and Hoboken may have been ugly and depressing, but they were residential. I prefer Greenpoint to LIC, frankly. But don't close your mind to what LIC will look and feel like in the future.

lowery, I can't believe you're insulting LIC! That is so, so unkind.

does anyone know how to tell it's halloween in LIC?
Looks the same today as usual.

okay, steve, you're right - it's not fair - how about...... Peter Cooper Village is a NYCHA project, Clinton is full of junkies and hookers, Chelsea is over with, and the Upper East Side is a smog-clogged hellhole where all the children suffer from asthma?

Shucks.... we really need to find something to compare with LIC. Chernobyl is too distant. I know! How about Newark?

Its amazing that we spend so many posts to-ing and froing on this area. LIC is clearly nicer than it was 10 years ago, but the rents and condo prices tell you definitely its not more desirable than most of Manhattan below 96th. However, the gap has narrowed on a PSF basis over time, proving my second sentence.

Is it "the" next hot nieghb? We can and will waste another 200 posts debating this. How this helps or hurts anyone I do not know.

lowery, you just had to go there, didn't you?

all the rest, OK, but PCV? leave my personal projects out of it, please?

time for some HAIKU!

Haiku? Ambitious for someone who had to come to Streeteasy to learn English after a Yale education apparently failed.

riversider.

Rachel?

riversider

Charlie?