Had time for one today, but since it's a line that I've never been in (thrill, thrill, joy, joy), I HAD to go. 320WEA, 3A: Estate sale - right across the hall from the Kagan homestead (3B, C6, closed 1.325 5/14/09). Part of the (great) wave of demographic change coming over the west side as the renters turned co-op converters age and leave their large apts. Originally an 8-room, this... [more]
Had time for one today, but since it's a line that I've never been in (thrill, thrill, joy, joy), I HAD to go.
320WEA, 3A:
Estate sale - right across the hall from the Kagan homestead (3B, C6, closed 1.325 5/14/09). Part of the (great) wave of demographic change coming over the west side as the renters turned co-op converters age and leave their large apts.
Originally an 8-room, this estate-condition low floor Candela is very well laid out with 3 ensuite bathrooms for each bedroom, LR across from the DR which makes for good entertaining space. The kitchen is scaled-up compared to most kitchens in 6 or 7 room apartments, making it possible to accommodate a kitchen table without sacrificing a maid's room. A reconfiguration of the 2 maid's rooms, maid's bath & kitchen area may be possible to yield a kitchen that is semi-open to the DR while keeping a very large spare room with an accessible bathroom that functions as a powder room for guests.
Prewar details are in okay, recoverable condition for the most part (doors need to be stripped, glass hardware & brass hardware intact, bath fixtures in good condition, too many missing original bathroom tiles).
Low floor, but decent enough light and exposures.
Common areas of the building are disappointing. The lobby area is very small (maybe some later configuration?) and has some incongruent 80s era touches.
Price? The cautious 7+ prime-ish WEA buyer will bid mid 2s for this apartment. If there is enough interest given the dearth of inventory, getting ask is not an impossibility.
[less]
Response by West81st
over 15 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Hi '23: I was there around 12:45. Sorry I missed you. Great space, great location, nice layout. I think condition, low floor and the building's limitations will keep this one in the $2.5-2.7MM range. That's still a nice price, considering the smaller comp next door. #3B sold for $2944 per share, and might get $3300 or so (around $1.5MM) today. #3A is asking $4992/share. That's a massive variance between two neighboring, front-facing apartments in similar condition. Then again, I always think this broker's prices are too high, and I'm usually wrong.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by huntersburg
over 15 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
I'm surprised their is any new real estate activity around the holidays
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by nyc10023
over 15 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
In the case of an estate sale, it doesn't always pay to "time" the market.
W81: sorry I missed you too. Historically, 7s & 8s have sold (given equality by other measures) at a premium to 6s. I agree this is a very large premium in this case.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by bramstar
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
A bit off-topic but West81st--what would you say a target price-per-share should be for the UWS/Morningside Heights? And how do things like view, higher floor, etc. factor into the equation?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West81st
over 15 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Bramstar: Did you mean price per share, or price per square foot? Price per share is only meaningful within a single coop (and even within a coop, you will find plenty of anomalies).
As written, your question is akin to asking, "What's an appropriate price per share for a technology stock?" without specifying which one.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West81st
over 15 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
huntersburg/nyc10023: There might be more to the timing than just the estate settlement process and an aversion to carrying the apartment longer. The broker may have advised the sellers to test the market before Christmas because the competition in this class is so weak at the moment.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by bramstar
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
West81st--I wondered whether there were some sort of formula for figuring price-per-share, but of course it makes sense it would vary from building to building. So how about price per square foot, in your opinion? What's a good target price in the UWS/Morningside Heights? How much do views/high floor or lack thereof factor in?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West81st
over 15 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
bramstar: There's a huge range: probably from about $500/SF (low-floor wreck in a poor location, with bad light/views and high maintenance relative to services and building quality) to $5000/SF for a great apartment at the Beresford or San Remo. Views and light are a huge factor. Check the PSF spread between primary and secondary lines in buildings like 90 RSD or 239 CPW.
Looking at bellwether product - say, a decent classic six on 97th and West End in tolerable condition with reasonable maintenance, I think the 2007 top was close to $1100, the 2009 bottom was under $800 and the current clearing level is probably back up near $900. So if I were buying today, I'd say $1.25-1.5MM is the clearing range for that kind of apartment, and anything below that range is a pretty fair "target".
If, by "target', you mean where the market might wind up after a further decline, I'll pass on making predictions. I retired my crystal ball after it missed the Spring 2010 bounce (dead-cat or otherwise).
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by bramstar
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
West81st--thanks for your reply. Very helpful and informative.
You mention the maintenance-relative-to-services factor. Say an apartment has amazing views/light/space and/or is on a high floor. But maintenance is high relative to services and location is decent but not considered 'prime' (perhaps Harlem or Morningside Heights). What sort of a discount would a buyer or seller expect to factor in for a sale?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West81st
over 15 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Bramstar: The authority on that topic is Klara Madlin, whom I haven't seen on SE recently. It might be worth reaching out to her.
A view of the Cathedral and/or Morningside Park seems to trade a good 30% cheaper than a similar view of Riverside Park. I'm not sufficiently familiar with buildings like 200 W108 or 54 MSD to be sure the comparison to RSD is valid.
bramstar: Please see 417 RSD -- A perfect example of what you've been describing. It's been on and off the market for a while and, relatively speaking, well-priced for what it offers. There was a board turn-down some time ago but still...the mtc is likely killing the potential deals:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/498614-coop-417-riverside-drive-morningside-heights-new-york Discuss...
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by Squid
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1399
Member since: Sep 2008
Interesting. 417 just went off the market again.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West81st
over 15 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
...and 320 WEA went to contract after a week on the market. Talk about a listing hitting a supply-demand sweet spot. Good call, nyc10023.
Hi '23: I was there around 12:45. Sorry I missed you. Great space, great location, nice layout. I think condition, low floor and the building's limitations will keep this one in the $2.5-2.7MM range. That's still a nice price, considering the smaller comp next door. #3B sold for $2944 per share, and might get $3300 or so (around $1.5MM) today. #3A is asking $4992/share. That's a massive variance between two neighboring, front-facing apartments in similar condition. Then again, I always think this broker's prices are too high, and I'm usually wrong.
I'm surprised their is any new real estate activity around the holidays
In the case of an estate sale, it doesn't always pay to "time" the market.
W81: sorry I missed you too. Historically, 7s & 8s have sold (given equality by other measures) at a premium to 6s. I agree this is a very large premium in this case.
A bit off-topic but West81st--what would you say a target price-per-share should be for the UWS/Morningside Heights? And how do things like view, higher floor, etc. factor into the equation?
Bramstar: Did you mean price per share, or price per square foot? Price per share is only meaningful within a single coop (and even within a coop, you will find plenty of anomalies).
As written, your question is akin to asking, "What's an appropriate price per share for a technology stock?" without specifying which one.
huntersburg/nyc10023: There might be more to the timing than just the estate settlement process and an aversion to carrying the apartment longer. The broker may have advised the sellers to test the market before Christmas because the competition in this class is so weak at the moment.
West81st--I wondered whether there were some sort of formula for figuring price-per-share, but of course it makes sense it would vary from building to building. So how about price per square foot, in your opinion? What's a good target price in the UWS/Morningside Heights? How much do views/high floor or lack thereof factor in?
bramstar: There's a huge range: probably from about $500/SF (low-floor wreck in a poor location, with bad light/views and high maintenance relative to services and building quality) to $5000/SF for a great apartment at the Beresford or San Remo. Views and light are a huge factor. Check the PSF spread between primary and secondary lines in buildings like 90 RSD or 239 CPW.
Looking at bellwether product - say, a decent classic six on 97th and West End in tolerable condition with reasonable maintenance, I think the 2007 top was close to $1100, the 2009 bottom was under $800 and the current clearing level is probably back up near $900. So if I were buying today, I'd say $1.25-1.5MM is the clearing range for that kind of apartment, and anything below that range is a pretty fair "target".
If, by "target', you mean where the market might wind up after a further decline, I'll pass on making predictions. I retired my crystal ball after it missed the Spring 2010 bounce (dead-cat or otherwise).
West81st--thanks for your reply. Very helpful and informative.
You mention the maintenance-relative-to-services factor. Say an apartment has amazing views/light/space and/or is on a high floor. But maintenance is high relative to services and location is decent but not considered 'prime' (perhaps Harlem or Morningside Heights). What sort of a discount would a buyer or seller expect to factor in for a sale?
Bramstar: The authority on that topic is Klara Madlin, whom I haven't seen on SE recently. It might be worth reaching out to her.
A view of the Cathedral and/or Morningside Park seems to trade a good 30% cheaper than a similar view of Riverside Park. I'm not sufficiently familiar with buildings like 200 W108 or 54 MSD to be sure the comparison to RSD is valid.
bramstar: Please see 417 RSD -- A perfect example of what you've been describing. It's been on and off the market for a while and, relatively speaking, well-priced for what it offers. There was a board turn-down some time ago but still...the mtc is likely killing the potential deals:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/498614-coop-417-riverside-drive-morningside-heights-new-york
Discuss...
Interesting. 417 just went off the market again.
...and 320 WEA went to contract after a week on the market. Talk about a listing hitting a supply-demand sweet spot. Good call, nyc10023.