Impact of the Atlantic Yards Project?

It's a mixed bag.

One side of the aisle claims that it will increase congestion, bring out a rowdier element on game nights, thus more drinking, bad behavior and crime, and the mix of low and middle income units in AY will potentially turn the area into projects.

The other side of the aisle claims the increased attention and money flowing into Barclay's is a good thing, that having the stadium so close to the BAM cultural center will create a major cultural megahub, and that the AY will bring in many more residential people and this will increase major service oriented purveyors that some people deem as 'deirable' into the area such as Whole Foods, Apple Store, etc., etc.

It just depends if you see the glass as half full or half empty. There's really no way to know the true impact of a project that large in advance.

if you're looking for a quiet place to live, this will not be it. i think it will bring more of the younger tone to the neighborhood. more singles and couples without kids. i would expect that the smaller units may do better then the larger.

to see the future effect of atlantic yards, tour the area around MSG.

I have heard Bklyn friends say they think it will be harmful, esp to Prospect Heights.

That area had been gentrifiying due to housing stock of old brownstones. But old brownstones are not going to fit in with the Ratner mega-development.

The b'stones will still be there but they will be devalued. It's like when you see a brownstone in the W. village that's next to a parking garage, and you know that before the garage was there it was a long row of pretty houses, but somehow a lot of the houses got ripped out and left just one or two standing.

Those one or two survivors are not going to have anywhere near the value of similar b'stones on a quiet street in west village. Much of the b'stone allure is caught up in low-density housing, quiet streets, old-fashioned neighborhood feel, etc.

All good points. Wbottom, I think you're on the mark with the MSG observation. FWIW, I'm thinking this will not be good for the North Slope, especially the areas closest to Flatbush Ave. I think apartments in the Center Slope are probably far enough away not to be too affected and are a safer bet in the long-term.

11217, I can't believe you're in such agreement with Wbottom's off-the-cuff and thoughtless comment. The similarities between MSG and Atlantic Yards are mostly superficial. While I'm by no means an AY apologist, the differences between the MSG vicinities (even pre-construction) and the area around AY are notable: the West 30s have largely been a commercial district, while Fort Greene, Boerum Hill, and Park Slope are mostly residential at this point. For that character to change, you'd have to see numerous blocks of brownstones razed and reimagined as commercial strips. I don't see that happening. What's far more likely is that Atlantic and Flatbush get even more traffic than they currently do (though the numerous public transportation options should help), and the commercial aspect of those avenues will likely evolve to cater a bit more to the AY crowd. It's also easy to forget that unless the Islanders also move to the Barclay Center, AY will see fewer than half the sporting events that MSG does. That's not an inconsiderable difference either. As for property values in the Slope and Prospect Heights, I honestly don't see this making a huge dent. The exceptions might be the 2-3 blocks immediately off Atlantic or Flatbush (Pacific, Dean, etc).

bjw, I don't entirely agree, but I think some of the differences you pointed out between AY and MSG are fair points--especially the observation that MSG hosts 2 major teams, while AY will host 1. I hadn't thought of that before. Similarly, I'm sure MSG gets more use for concerts/other events than AY will. I do think that the "evolve to cater a bit more to the AY crowd" is a bigger deal than you suggest--sports bars, memorabilia stores, etc. In any event, I agree that Pacific/Dean will be less well off.

11217, I'll admit, I don't spend a whole lot of time on Flatbush or Atlantic other than in traffic, but what's on those avenues that is in danger of being replaced by sports bars and memorabilia stores? PC Richard's? Target? Buffalo Wild Wings and Modell's will probably benefit if anything. Plus, I mean, how many Nets memorabilia stores do you really need? Nothing's set in stone obviously, but I certainly get the sense there's a bit too much hyperbole being kicked around, but that's a common sight in the internet age (and somewhat unfortunate, IMHO).

spare the awful windiness bj---atlantic yards is a huge dump bloomberg/rattner are taking on the area where it will be built ans surrounding, in so many ways--an area that had been improving as a community for years

commerce rules---community shit on

Bottoms, yikes, spare me the romanticized tripe. Please elaborate on how Target and Buffalo Wild Wings have done so much to "improve the community." This is typical blogosphere griping. The "community" will survive and just fine at that. Unless you underestimate New Yorkers.

bjw,

If I recall, you have spent a fair amount of time on here defending Wburg against stereotypes. So I'm a bit surprised to see you reducing parts of several different neighborhoods to a couple of chain stores on a commercial strip. I'm no expert on the area either but I have seen plenty of stories over the past few years about neighborhood bars and restaurants being forced out for this. And I suspect those are only the stories of those who know people in the media.

malthus, not so much defending but shaking my head incredulously at people who genuinely seem to believe only one kind of person lives there (and this applies to any neighborhood, not just my own - it's like people forget just how diverse this city still is sometimes, which is nuts).

As for AY, I don't think you're reading me correctly: I'm not reducing the several different surrounding neighborhoods to anything. They are all pretty great and distinct. But as I said above, I don't think this will really alter the character of those neighborhoods much; rather, what the major avenues (Flatbush/Atlantic, which are certainly characterized by the stores I mentioned) and a small handful of streets immediately off those thoroughfares will be most impacted.

What neighborhood bars and restaurants were forced out? Freddy's (which was pretty much right at the intersection of Flatbush/Atlantic) was the most highly publicized bar, but it's already found and opened its new home in Park Slope.

Good for Freddy's but 30 blocks away ain't quite the neighborhood either. Ever read the Power Broker?

I heard on the radio that to cut costs by half they are gonna built a 35 story pre-fab' building!
Never been done before! Prefab'? Duh!

I've never read it in its entirety, but have digested good chunks of it here and there (it's massive). But I wouldn't compare this (as monstrous as it might seem) to Robert Moses' work. He championed the car as THE method of transportation. AY is being developed, in part, because it sits on a major public transportation hub (subway, bus, LIRR). And no one has really accounted for the "community" on these major avenues that is supposedly being irretrievably destroyed. Ok, Freddy's is a bit of schlep from its original location, but it's still in Park Slope, one of the neighborhoods the OP is concerned about. If the bars and restaurants along 5th and 7th Ave give way to awful, bland, commercialized ventures, then I think the point is valid, but do you honestly see that happening?

I don't think the purpose of the development (whether highways or stadiums) is so important to my point. You could probably argue (and people have recently) that Moses did some great things for New York, but he certainly ripped apart some neighborhoods and nobody would even remember it if it weren't for Robert Caro.

To the OP's question, I'm pretty sure the effects will vary block by block and its hard to predict, but I certainly wouldn't want to be living on the streets directly feeding into or out of it.

" heard on the radio that to cut costs by half they are gonna built a 35 story pre-fab' building!
Never been done before! Prefab'? Duh!"

I guess that might impact the promised number of construction jobs.

malthus, I think Moses ripped apart some neighborhoods to lay down expressways and promote car usage. To me, though he did some good things, that's the most egregious of his sins. If he had spent that time/effort/money on public transportation instead, I think we'd be so much better off in several ways.

Agreed on not wanting to live on the blocks immediately around it. Where I think it gets into overwrought speculation is when people start talking about the effects on, say, Lincoln Pl and 5th Ave.