GOP proposes to change Medicare to Obamacare

How are those voucher-like government subsidies (Part D?) for Medicare prescription plans working out, LICcomm? High satisfaction and lowered overall costs?

Hey MidtownerVirgin. How have you and Wbuttocks been lately?

bjw, I'm not in favor of the employer-based system.

midtowner- I just said above the government is better suited to run a military. Please read more carefully before you comment.

LICC, but if so many Americans are happy with the healthcare system, as you claim, why change that?
The more relevant question though is the one I asked before - what is it about government that makes it incapable of running healthcare in your eyes?

The French government is looking at ways to plug a gaping hole in its health care budget and may charge patients more for hospital stays, Budget Minister Eric Woerth said on Monday.

France's health system is largely financed by the state and has been hailed as the best in the world by the World Health Organization. It is also one of the most costly and the government constantly struggles to control spending.

After a 4.4 billion euro ($6.31 billion) shortfall in the health budget in 2008, Woerth said he expected the deficit to hit 10 billion euros this year and 15 billion next, with the economic downturn denting social security contributions.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/07/us-french-health-care-deficit-idUSTRE5863CN20090907

France must make big changes to its health system in order to cut waste and increase efficiency, a government-commissioned report is warning.
The report says citizens must pay more and doctors must alter their behaviour.

Failure to do so could add 66 billion euros a year to France's public budget deficit by 2020, it adds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3423159.stm

LICC, from the article you posted:

""We need to make savings of around 2-1/5 billion (euros) to prevent the trend for higher spending from becoming too strong."

The press reported that amongst the options under review were to increase the daily charge for hospital stays to 20 euros from 16 euros and to cut reimbursement for some over-the-counter drugs like aspirin to 15 percent from 35 percent.

Woerth confirmed that this was being studied, but declined to predict specific savings.

"When you have the most modern system (in the world) you need to take care of it. You cannot preserve it with such a high deficit," Woerth said.

France spends 11 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on healthcare -- the second highest in the world after the United States, where health costs total some 16 percent of GDP."

This is peanuts compared to our problems. 4 euro increase for hospital stays? Charging more for aspirin? If you're trying to claim that the French system is broken or that the model simply doesn't work, I don't know what to tell you. Health care is hard, but the French have done a better job than we have.

bjw, you know I love you, but France is doing more than just charging more for aspirin:

In recent months, France imposed American-style "co-pays" on patients to try to throttle back prescription-drug costs and forced state hospitals to crack down on expenses. "A hospital doesn't need to be money-losing to provide good-quality treatment," President Nicolas Sarkozy thundered in a recent speech to doctors.

And service cuts -- such as the closure of a maternity ward near Ms. Cuccarolo's home -- are prompting complaints from patients, doctors and nurses that care is being rationed . . .

The problem is that Assurance Maladie [the state health insurer] has been in the red since 1989. This year the annual shortfall is expected to reach €9.4 billion ($13.5 billion), and €15 billion in 2010, or roughly 10% of its budget. . . .

Both patients and doctors say they feel the effects of Mr. Sarkozy's cuts. They certainly had an impact on Ms. Cuccarolo of the firetruck birth.

She lives near the medieval town of Figeac, in southern France. The maternity ward of the public hospital there was closed in June as part of a nationwide effort to close smaller, less efficient units.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html

As far as U.S. satisfaction, I think most are satisfied with the service they receive. I would change the system that covers payment for insurance. I think this would improve the system and help contain costs, as would tort reform.

I agree with you about fee for service.

It sounds like France needs to up taxation on its wealthiest and/or highest earners.

But in any event, you describe mere surface flaws in an otherwise great system that delivers what we pay 50% more for.

"Norway- the Israel hating country"

When was the last time Norway declared war on Israel? When was the last time a Norweigan blew himself up on a crowded Israeil bus? FYI: I am Jewish and have several relatives in the IDF. So back off now unless you want to lose yet another argument.

"seniors would be chipping in at the margin,"

Where will seniors get the money to pay for their own healthcare? Many of them have Soc Sec. as their sole income, and if you get your way, they won't even have that!

People in the U.S. are satisfied with their DOCTOR, not their halth insurance. Do not confuse the two LICC.

LICC is right. The government CANNOT manage helathcare.

Veterans’ Health Care Outscores Private Sector – Again

WASHINGTON – Veterans continue to be more satisfied with their health care than the average American, according to an annual report on customer satisfaction that compares the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) health care system with private-sector health care.

The ratings came in the annual American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI), which ranks "customer satisfaction" with various federal programs and private-sector industries.

The ACSI, an independent survey of customer satisfaction within both the federal and private sectors, gave VA's inpatient care a rating of 83 on a 100-point scale. That's 10 percentage points higher than the 73 rating achieved for inpatient care by the private-sector health care industry.

VA's rating of 80 for outpatient care was five percentage points higher than the 75 rating for private-sector outpatient care and nine percentage points higher than the average satisfaction rating for all federal services.

The latest findings mark the sixth consecutive year VA’s health care system has outranked the private sector for customer satisfaction.

http://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=1069

It seems like Socialist doesn't mind anti-semitism as long as it comes from socialist countries:

There have been episodes of desecration of the synagogue in Oslo,.[33] On 17 September 2006 the synagogue in Oslo was subjected to attack with an automatic weapon,[34] only days after it was made public that the building had been one the planned target for the Algerian terror group GSPC that had been plotting a bombing campaign in the Norwegian capital.[35] The synagogue in Oslo is under continuous surveillance and protected by barriers. On 2 June 2008 Arfan Qadeer Bhatti was convicted on the shooting attack and given an eight year preventive custody sentence for serious vandalism. The Oslo city court judge could not find sufficient evidence that the shots fired at the synagogue amounted to a terrorist act.[36] In July 2006 during the 2006 Lebanon War the congregation issued an advisory warning Jews not to wear kippot or other identifying items in public for fear of harassment or assault.[37]

In 2008, a symposium held by Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, entitled Behind the Humanitarian Mask: The Nordic Countries, Israel and the Jews, accused Norway and Sweden of institutional racism against Jews.[38] Dr Manfred Gerstenfeld, chairman of the Board of Fellows at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, said that "Norway is the most anti-Semitic country in Scandinavia." Former Prime Minister Kåre Willoch responded to the accusations at the symposium by arguing that allegations of antisemitism is a "traditional deflection tactic aimed at diverting attention from the real problem, which is Israel's well-documented and incontestable abuse of Palestinians."

In April 2011, Alan M. Dershowitz sharply criticized Norway for its treatment of Jews, writing that "All Jews are apparently the same in this country that has done everything in its power to make life in Norway nearly impossible for Jews. Norway was apparently the first modern nation to prohibit the production of Kosher meat, while at the same time permitting Halal meat and encouraging the slaughter of seals, whales and other animals that are protected by international treaties. No wonder less than 1000 Jews live in Norway.[47]

Dershowitz also stated, regarding efforts by Norwegion Academics to institute a boycott of Israelis that while administrations of Norwegion universities "have refused to go along with this form of collective punishment of all Israeli academics... in practice...Jewish pro-Israel speakers are subject to a de facto boycott" and cited this as a reason why the faculties of several Norwegion universities refused to invite him to speak about Israel (although he did subsequently give three lectures at the invitation of student groups). Dershowitz noted that the only other country that prevented him from lecturing at its universities was South Africa during the apartheid era

From The Brussels Journal, 2006:

On 15 December the province of South-Trøndelag officially called for an economic boycott of Israel. The boycott entails that the provincial authorities will no longer buy Israeli products. They have also called on the province’s 270,000 inhabitants to do the same.

The boycott was initiated by the far-left Red Electoral Alliance (RV). It received the support of all three Norwegian governing parties – the Labour Party (Ap) of Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg and Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Støre, Halvorsen’s SV and the environmentalist Center Party (Sp). It was also supported by a provincial councillor of the right-wing Progress Party (Frp) of opposition leader Carl I. Hagen.

The center-right Oslo newspaper Aftenposten remarked sardonically that South-Trøndelag is in “the good company” of Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Syria and Iran, the only members of the Arab League that still strictly apply the 1951 Arab League economic boycott of Israel. The 1951 boycott was based on the 1922 decision of the Fifth Arab Congress to boycot all commercial activities of Jews in Palestine. Aftenposten pointed out that clearly South-Trøndelag wants to be more radical than most member states of the Arab League.

there's been plnety of synagogues discredited in the U.S. That proves nothing. Every single country in the world has anti Seminitism.

All houses of worship are discredited. You meant desecrated.

On that note, Dershowitz (who is better quoted on Bush's theft of the Presidential election than on Scandinvian matters) wrote "less than 1000 Jews"? Really? I find it hard to believe that he'd treat them as one aggregate lump, rather than as 1000 individuals, in which case he would have written "fewer".

And "Norway is the most anti-Semitic country in Scandinavia."? Aaaalllllllll of famously tolerant and Jewish-friendly Scandinavia? I guess one of those four countries has to be the most anti-semitic amongst themselves, unless they're all tied at zero.

Yes, Freudian slip.

Wow, not that this thread was about real estate in the first place, but it got side-tracked rather quickly, huh? Anyway, LICC, I totally recognize that France's system isn't perfect. Not to be needlessly reductive, but it is a pretty standard business problem - revenues (taxes) need to increase. There's always talk that the US pays too much of its GDP on healthcare. I don't know if that's true, but it's a strange question. How much should we be spending? Especially since health has such a huge effect on productivity, and thus the economy. In that light, 20% doesn't seem quite so crazy any more. In a system as advanced as France's that realization may be hitting home. That said, we spend a lot, but not at all wisely. So maybe I should go back on that "standard problem" thought...

And "Norway is the most anti-Semitic country in Scandinavia."? Aaaalllllllll of famously tolerant and Jewish-friendly Scandinavia? I guess one of those four countries has to be the most anti-semitic amongst themselves, unless they're all tied at zero.

Norway is the only one of the Scandinavian countries that deported its Jews to be killed by the Nazis. Denmark sent them to Sweden which was a neutral country.

Most countries are anti-Semitic and Anti Israel, socialist or not, including the Scandinavian countries and most of the rest of Europe. Steven Harper in Canada is much more supportive of Israel than Obama.

But I dont think that being pro or anti Israel has much to do with a nation's quality of healthcare.

That's because the Nazis captured, occupied and controlled Norway at that time. It's like blaming France for Vichy government crimes.

But otherwise, yes, LICcomm is a moron. He started it.

"Paul Ryan: GOP Budget Gives Seniors Same Health Care as Congress ... Only Way More Expensive..."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/paul-ryan-gop-budget-gives-seniors-same-health-care-as-congressonly-way-more-expensive.php

What is FUNNY is that is EXACTLY what Hilary wanted for ALL Americans in 2008 - to be able to buy into the federal employees health care plan.

"..."When [Ryan] the plan takes effect in 2022, the average senior would receive $8,000 to buy insurance," Tonko wrote. "Plans for Members of Congress cost $9,012 in 2010. What kind of health care plan will $8,000 buy in 2022 for our sickest and oldest seniors, when $9,000 can't buy a plan for a Member of Congress today?..."

from the above link.

[Lyin' Ryan]

"...GOP budget amendment makes GOP budget proposal unconstitutional..."

Really, if the balanced budget amendment RYAN SUPPORTS passed this year, his own budget proposal would violate the amendment, since he does not "balance" the budget for over 20 years, even with his unicorns and pixie dust.

http://thefastertimes.com/politicalmedia/2011/04/07/gop-budget-amendment-makes-gop-budget-proposal-unconstitutional/

You know, of course, the ONLY way Ryan would turn out to be correct is if insurance companies DID NOT raise rates faster than inflation. Which would mean...rationing.

Yup. One way or another, to keep costs from spiraling out of control, we need to ration.

> How do you know if someone is obese?

only in America! it's pretty clear when somebody is obese to a bystander, it's nothing a doctor cannot achieve

"...Boehner: Republicans Voted To Turn Medicare Into Obamacare...

...According to Speaker John Boehner, the House Republican budget, which passed on April 15, "transforms Medicare into a plan that's very similar to the President's own healthcare bill."

That's from an interview with ABC's Jon Karl. Boehner joins Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) as one of the few high-profile elected Republicans who will admit that the GOP's Medicare privatization plan is similar in many key respects to the health care law they have spent the last two years demonizing..."

BURN. 130 posts later, I am PROVEN correct. DUMMIES!!!!!!!!!!

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/boehner-republicans-voted-to-turn-medicare-into-obamacare.php

"transforms Medicare into a plan that's very similar to the President's own healthcare bill."

This is easily the dumbest thing Boehner ever said. I was going to make a tanning joke about Boehner, but I can't think of any right now...

Socialist, if Boehner dislikes immigrants, you'll change your tone, right?