Are brokers overpaid?

not quite that early. the event starts at 10. why don't you come by? i haven't kicked the shit out of anyone in a while.

hey guys, where is w67?

who knows? is that supposed to be clever? lord you're boring.

mike? mike who? I don't come to anyone's defense. you're just dumb. and you need to use personal insults that are not verifiable (greying, for example) because you are too mentally infirm to limit yourself to decent debate.

did you swallow a fucking parrot?

if this is so boring, then why ever comment?

aboutready
31 minutes ago
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report abuse oh, and mike, i'm sure you've already realized the depth of honesy's intelligence. mud puddle comes to mind.

senile much bitch? you wrote that half an hour ago. i actually would wish that on you, just for being so snide.

just read the comments written before you chose to weigh in whore. fuck you and your family.

now that's some trenchant analysis. no, YOU are boring, didn't you pick up on that? the conversation is somewhat interesting in its dynamics.

yet you haven't made one comment about the conversation, have you? slut. just invective directed at me. i, on the otherhand, made a number of well thought points well before you stepped in. your whore of a daughter turn you into an early grandmother yet?

jim_hones10
2 minutes ago
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report abuse aboutready
31 minutes ago
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report abuse oh, and mike, i'm sure you've already realized the depth of honesy's intelligence. mud puddle comes to mind.

Are you going to ignore this?

Ah, hfscomm1 at work.

you'll know where to find me. stuytown oval tomorrow sometime before noon.

well, that was nice. makes me think so highly of honesy and whatever he writes. credibility in abundance.

and typical of the jerk.

columbiacounty
4 minutes ago
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report abuse Ah, hfscomm1 at work.

a default response. you come too. I'll check in about 9.30 am to see who might show. I'll be there.

you're the two worst trolls on here.

aboutready
13 minutes ago
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report abuse mike? mike who? I don't come to anyone's defense. you're just dumb. and you need to use personal insults that are not verifiable (greying, for example) because you are too mentally infirm to limit yourself to decent debate.

jim_hones10
7 minutes ago
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report abuse jim_hones10
2 minutes ago
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report abuse aboutready
31 minutes ago
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report abuse oh, and mike, i'm sure you've already realized the depth of honesy's intelligence. mud puddle comes to mind.

What about this AR? do you spin so much bullshit you really truly don't know what you have written just minutes prior?

I just want to meet and say hi. I just happened to mention that I haven't been in a fight in awhile.

you want an explanation? ok, but you might not like it. you have called other people stupid. I find your arguments fragmented and not well-reasoned. I find you not particularly intelligent, if at all. yes, I knew very well what I wrote. I'm stunned that you're at all surprised by my comments. as I wrote, psychological pathology.

You're trying to cover up AR. I doubt very seriously you read anything that I wrote other than the last post before you decided to weigh in.

We can't have all gone to the ivy league (not that many rich parents to go around) but I am not stupid.

I don't at all doubt that jim will be at the ST/PCV easter thing ... dressing in a pink bunny costume pays much better than being a rental broker does.

Are brokers on the whole overpaid? Not really. There was this thread:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/25081-whats-a-typical-brokers-salary

I estimated $13K per broker in Manhattan, which no doubt included lots of part-timers and people who aren't doing anything but just renewing their license. Even at top firms though, the average was only around $60K. The median is no doubt lower, and these are the brokers who "have made it" into the big dogs.

So what gives? It seems like a highly inefficient market to me with little productivity per worker. The successful ones are selling an average of 3 or 4 apartments a year, co-broke. A good broker "should" be able to go through a dozen sales a year no problem. But the more crumbs that are thrown on the table, the more brokers come out of the woodwork for their 3 or 4 crumbs. A whole lot of scurrying for nothing.

Housing Turnover in Manhattan is sure to be below 2004-2007 when people were flipping and buying based on capital gains. So there will be far fewer crumbs.

Perhaps the question should be rephrased as to not whether brokers earn too much (most probably don't do that well) to that of 5-6% commission as making sense in terms of value provided, time put in, and whether the commission structure represents a free market rate.

parents were hardly rich, honesy. almost full scholarship. think of another justification.

bs. I read every nasty word. but you looked great dressed as the bunny today.

OMG, aboutready you and Jim spent Easter together?

get a life.

I have one. I didn't spend my Easter with Jim.

aboutready, what's wrong lately? Real estate market isn't behaving like you expected? Fewer sellers and developers for you to extort?

separate topic, why does this web site just copy and link to article on streeteasy? http://www.brickunderground.com/blog/2011/04/should_buyers_insistence_on_a_death_clause_kill_a_property_purchase

ridiculous, just one day before that one, was another cut and paste hacking of streeteasy: http://www.brickunderground.com/blog/2011/04/what_these_owners_wish_they_had_known_and_hope_youll_learn

And another blatant one: http://www.brickunderground.com/blog/2011/04/choosing_a_lawyer_the_questions_to_ask_the_answers_you_want

I think it is rediculous that the people always think that the broker doesn't work and is overpaid. In many countries the commissions have been standardized. A good broker knows his job and can make your life simple. Why don't you start to question the salary of the MTA employees or many doctors or lawyer? Contrary to many of your thoughts many brokers show and show apartments, prepare for appointments only to make NOTHING when people decide not to buy....or just not to show up for an appointment. Many agents also spend a lot of ther OWN money on clients. But that is never discussed. Walk a mile in an agents shoes before you sit there and "whine" about how they are compensated.

Inonada - you've got it spot on...

Lots of brokers, many not so good, chasing a fixed amount of work. Means, outside of a few very good ones who have built their personal brands, there are lots of brokers struggling to earn a living on 3-4 sales a year. Most of the "scurrying for nothing" you refer to adds no value as most of the "scurriers" are the not-so-good brokers everyone hates.

Clearly a highly inefficient market. A more efficient market would be fewer brokers, better brokers, richer brokers, supported by better administration to do the necessary runnning around.

So why is the market the way it is?

My guess is good-old information asymmetry. As a "buyer" of broking services, it is pure luck if I can find a good broker. I know I want a good broker. I even know what a good broker looks and sounds like. Yet I still struggle to find one. Working for a "brand name" firm doesn't mean the broker is any good. This means that I am likely to hire a not-so-good broker - and pay him and complain about him on a board like this. And so it goes. If buyers could identify good brokers in advance, we would only hire them... they would get busier, and the market couldn't support the bottom-end.

you make a very good argument jeremyfg. I would argue that in coming years you will see more independent brokers taking a stab at different models, both solving the need for a) fee based services and b) better information. How the broker uses information to service the client and advise the client, to me, is the future.

Traditional one size fits all brokerage service, to me, is antiquated. Only Manhattan still works this way, we dont even have a true MLS. Traditional brokers that are chasing those crumbs that ionada correctly states, are scared big time of any new concept that may eat away at the traditional model. I would say 10-15% of all brokers really make alot of coin, lets say 250K . Then you got 10-15% that make good livings, lets say 100K-250K, then the rest struggle to get by. At all times this is shifting a bit based on dollar volume of sales. In 2009, everyone got hurt a bit. We cant forget this is a commission based industry where agents earn on closed deals, which means its a sales industry like any other sales business. Tell a independent contractor in a sales based industry that someone is offering a high quality service using a fee based model, and if they are already struggling to get by, how do u think they will feel?

Ill tell you. Look at the real deal article and the comments when I decided to put out a flat fee buyer consulting service targeted to buyers who had no interest in taking on a traditional buy side broker. Not only did brokers not get it, those that did, went berserk. Same when realdirect.com came out or Aligned real estate announced a tiered sell side model. Any new idea will ruffle feathers in this business

"I would say 10-15% of all brokers really make alot of coin, lets say 250K "

should have said 250K+

urbandigs
about 2 hours ago
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report abuse you make a very good argument jeremyfg. I would argue that in coming years you will see more independent brokers taking a stab at different models, both solving the need for a) fee based services and b) better information. How the broker uses information to service the client and advise the client, to me, is the future.

Traditional one size fits all brokerage service, to me, is antiquated. Only Manhattan still works this way, we dont even have a true MLS. Traditional brokers that are chasing those crumbs that ionada correctly states, are scared big time of any new concept that may eat away at the traditional model. I would say 10-15% of all brokers really make alot of coin, lets say 250K . Then you got 10-15% that make good livings, lets say 100K-250K, then the rest struggle to get by. At all times this is shifting a bit based on dollar volume of sales. In 2009, everyone got hurt a bit. We cant forget this is a commission based industry where agents earn on closed deals, which means its a sales industry like any other sales business. Tell a independent contractor in a sales based industry that someone is offering a high quality service using a fee based model, and if they are already struggling to get by, how do u think they will feel?

Ill tell you. Look at the real deal article and the comments when I decided to put out a flat fee buyer consulting service targeted to buyers who had no interest in taking on a traditional buy side broker. Not only did brokers not get it, those that did, went berserk. Same when realdirect.com came out or Aligned

How are those business doing? Real numbers, listings on the sales side or number of active buyers would be helpful. otherwise, who cares?