Elevator shut down for 2 weeks. Legal advice?

What do u want them to do.......NOT fix the elevator? You bitch about the "horific condition" of your MIL's apt and complain that they're fixing the elevator. You make NO sense. Take some personal responsiblity for yourselves. Accomodate your MIL somehow. Paint her apt yourself or hire someone.

As you help MIL up the stairs to her apartment, you can talk with her about how unnecessary and stupid rent control and rent stabilization are. Tell her that you'd never let your own mother live in a rent controlled apartment.

Actually i wish i lived in a rent controlled apartment. How lucky for her. With that said, with all the money she is saving put her up in a hotel for 2 weeks or even better how about a nice vacation somewhere fore 2 weeks

Just throw a rope out the window and hoist her up, like we did with mine.

If it's horrific with the savings from the really really low rent why isn't she fixing up the apartment to make it livable? Certainly there's sufficient savings to paint the apartment?

They have to paint the apartment every 3 years. She is not obligated to provide any extra spending in exchange for her rent controlled apartment.

As for the elevator, though, unless there's a service elevator (in which case they might be required to provide someone to run it 24/7 during construction ... ask a lawyer) the landlord isn't required to accomodate her. Best bet is for her to move in with you or another relative or friend for the duration of the project (which might run more than the scheduled two weeks).

Then later she'll have to join the other rent-regulated tenants in the building to scrutinize and possibly legally challenge the rent increase that the landlord will apply for based on the elevator and any other capital replacements.

"My mother in law is handicapped and lives in rent controlled apartment which is in horrific condition."

How long has she lived there, and why has she allowed her apartment to deteriorate into such a "horrific condition"?

'My mother in law is handicapped and lives in rent controlled apartment which is in horrific condition'
-You could have left the last part of that sentence out. We know she has not wanted any improvements for 40+ years...

There is a whole side to this rent regulation debate that no one talks about; The aging population who will not give up their sweet deals.

You are lucky she lives in an elevator building. I have a few RC tenants who live on upper floors of walk up buildings, and they cant even go up and down the steps. I will spare you any further details, but suffice to say that until you have worked in property management, you don't really know what goes on on a large scale. A lot of it is quite disturbing. This one elderly RC gentleman I have has to much in savings to qualify for medicare... I can go on and on....

I think your mother in law should move in with you. Who let's their mother/mother in law suffer in such squalor?

I'm still waiting to hear why the mother-in-law allowed her home to fall into such squalor in the first place.

MAV, she IS lucky she lives in an elevator building. For those less lucky, there are few or no practical alternatives that are more accessible -- spots in affordable senior housing are greatly lacking given demand. And no elderly US citizen has too much in savings to qualify for Medicare, which currently has no income or asset test.

Do your tenants want no improvements, or do they simply resist the terms of MCI and individual capital improvement rent increases, in which items that you depreciate over a mere five years become permanent increases to their rent?

Matt, beyond a certain age, people don't really have the energy or means to get what they're legally entitled to (repairs, plastering, painting) from landlords who resist. That's usually how elderly people "allow" their homes to fall into squalor. It's not from failure to run around with a feather duster when chunks of plaster are falling from the walls and ceilings.

I'm still waiting to hear why the mother-in-law allowed her home to fall into such squalor in the first place.

NYCMatt, maybe this might help. She is in squalor for the same reason my grandmother was in squalor. You can beg them to the point of an ugly arguement just to have painters come in, cleaning service or whatever to make their life have what we think is civilized. But, oh no, they cannot deviate from their routine of whatever it is that they do. So after all the drama/tears and no change, there's grandma living in a dark crypt with friends saying, "how can you let her live like that". Of which our answer was, you are right, next time we'll go in and brandish guns, maybe then she'll realize that change is good. Hey folks, we'll all be there soon enough, don't judge.

thank you alanhart for answering. as far as nyc matt the apt is in horrible condition because the super who would be doing it would do such a bad job and take such a long time that my mother in law cannot deal with it.

"Matt, beyond a certain age, people don't really have the energy or means to get what they're legally entitled to (repairs, plastering, painting) from landlords who resist. That's usually how elderly people "allow" their homes to fall into squalor. It's not from failure to run around with a feather duster when chunks of plaster are falling from the walls and ceilings."

Ah, but that's the rub.

Most landlords of rent-controlled buildings also don't have the manpower or means because -- guess why??

Bela, it would be best to speak with an attorney. The building is in a catch-22--if they take the elevator out of commission to repair it they are 'taking away' services for that period of time. But, if they DON'T repair it, it will not function correctly and that will also result in a lack of services.

If the building has a service elevator, they should man that during the repair period.

If it were me and I were able, I'd put up my MIL in a hotel for the few weeks it takes for the elevator to be repaired (if there is no service elevator that can be used in the interim).

With regards to the 'horrific conditions'--if your mother in law will not allow repairmen into her apartment then you cannot blame the conditions on the landlord. This is a common problem with rent controlled/stabilized tenants--they complain bitterly about bad conditions, taking their complaints all the way to housing court, but then refuse to allow workers in to perform the necessary repairs.

She could garnish fame on the small screen: "Hoarders II: The Elevator Broke."

HAHAHAHA!

You mean 'garner', Steve?

Why all the bitterness from everyone. bela is just asking for advise not criticism. I live in an apartment and I am paying market rate, and had the same problem with all three elevators being out,(the two passenger and one service). It didn't take me long after moving in to realize that the landlord and the management company are total sleezbags. Welcome to the "big apple".

THere's really nothing to do-- my aunt had to walk up 5 flights for 4 weeks in Riverdale a couple of years ago--

I'm with alanhart and Bill7284, with the exception of the third paragraph of alanhart's first post which seems unlikely that's going to make its way into the calculation.

Actually, the maid's room became the cooking part of the kitchen and the original kitchen became the eat-in area (though with sink, dishwasher, icemaker and compact fridge

Sorry, posted to wrong thread

hmm

Damned I phone and my big fingers

loveislife
thank you

I am going to guess the "bitterness", if that's what you call it, is coming from people who do not agree with someone paying below market rate rents for years and years, and then complaining that the landlord doesnt maintain the building like a 5-star hotel. Just a guess.

gcondo life is unfair and the sooner you understand that the happier you will be. jealousy is a lousy trait esp for a person experiencing it. there are a lot of laws which are way more unfair.
matt the same applies to you.

Bela: Is there a Tenants' Association in the building? Assuming any sort of remedy is possible, elevators are a topic for collective, not individual, action.

>and then complaining that the landlord doesnt maintain the building like a 5-star hotel

Gcondo, I doubt your characterization of the tenants applies to a single one of them. I suspect that most of these tenants aren't spending much time in a 5 star hotel to be able to make such a comparison to begin with.

bela,

Why don't you ask a lawyer? Legal advice is free. Yes, SE, has lawyers, but alanfart is too drunk from Sidecars and don't know if he is sleeping or awake to offer consultation. LOL!

"I suspect that most of these tenants aren't spending much time in a 5 star hotel to be able to make such a comparison to begin with."

Maybe if they spent a little time with a hammer and nails ... and a $2.99 jar of spackle ... they might not be living in such "squalor".

Yes, a little elbow grease is in order. If you want 5-star service, pay 5-star rents. Otherwise, roll up your sleeves and get to work. Your ridiculously low rent barely enables the landlord to pay the taxes and utilities on the building, let alone capital improvements.

Amen, Matt. Whining RS/RC tenants are the worst of the worst.

Yes, I am jealous of people living in rent control. That's why I own my home. I am so jealous that I also own a business and work hard to make a living/strive to succeed. I guess I am jealous of all the people who decide not to do this, and rather decide to live off of a handout, and then complain about the hand - that's what I'd rather be doing.

Yes, go see a lawyer - but I doubt you will do that, because that would cost money.

Bela!!!! Take some personal responsiblity. It's RENT CONTROLLED...Consider her lucky. Fix the place up urself. They're fixing the gd elevators. Stop with the legal bs. What r ur gonna bring a lawsuit against the owner for fixing the f'ing elevators?

bela, it seems like you have 2 possible courses of action. you could pursue what you believe are your mother in law's legal rights through the courts out of principle, or you could take care of her out of your pocket while her building is under repair. so the answer for you is really in the question. do you want to make her comfortble for the duration of this time? or do you want to force the landlord to live up to his responsibilities?

What a horrible group of trolls occupying this board. Makes me embarrassed to be a member of this site - and a New Yorker. I hope that flaming on an Internet message board gives makes you feel better about your sad little existence.

In any event, depending on the size of the building, NYC code requires that the building provide a working elevator. The elevator cannot be taken out of service for reasons other than repair. However, as several others have pointed out, maintenance is a valid reason for taking it out of service.

Yes, nothing brings it out like rent controls.

Matt's "Hey old disabled lady, get up on the ladder with a can of Spackle, and quit whining" is an SE classic.

Matt is a whinging asswipe on his best days.
"coop VP here!"
The lack of empathy is really shameful. Anyway, bela, can you take her in for a couple of weeks, and fix her place up? When you say squalor, what do you mean?

I never expected this post to turn out like this. I really wish that people who want to vent about rent control would start their own post. This is not a post about whether you like rent control. Again thank you to those of you who provided info.

gcondo rent control is not a handout

>>Matt is a whinging asswipe on his best days.
"coop VP here!"
The lack of empathy is really shameful.

Except when he asks for handouts for his friends who didn't save up enough to weather a bount of unemployment.

"gcondo rent control is not a handout"

Oh? So if a tenant is paying $800 a month for a unit that costs the landlord $1,800 a month in taxes/maintenance that is not a handout? Really??

Human nature is a funny thing. Landlords are all evil assholes. Until one of them gets "taken advantage of" by an 80 year old tenant who has lived in his or her apartment straight until 1970 and has contributed to the stability of their community. Then we need to pity the landlord because we don't get that same great deal.

Really, not a handout. It's like winning Lotto.

That $x-per-month loss (if there is one) was a factor in how much the landlord paid for the building.

I know a few landlords with RC/RS tenants, and they don't get all indignant and moral about it. It's how it is, and they win some and lose some. They certainly don't expect the NYS legislature to give the industry a multi-billion dollar gift anytime soon. It'll just continue to evolve.

"Matt's "Hey old disabled lady, get up on the ladder with a can of Spackle, and quit whining" is an SE classic."

I never said that.

She could very easily use some of that money she's legally stealing from her landlord every month and PAY people to keep the apartment in good repair.

>legally stealing

?

Rent control is nothing like "winning Lotto". In the lottery everyone has a fair chance if they choose to pay their buck to play.

RC is an outmoded holdover from the WWII era that unfairly penalizes property owners. It needs to be completely overhauled or done away with altogether.

How much is your mother-in-law paying for the RC apt, and what is market value? If she would be able to pay for someone to come in every few days to help her out for the same or less than the difference between the 2 amounts, what is the complaint about? RC apartments and the sense of entitlement that coexists is just one example of the extreme welfare mentality that exists in NYC and makes the cost of living and taxes so high for those of us who are actually paying for it.

To all you envious bloggers, I am certain if you were rent stabilized you would not be writing your hateful comments.
bela, these people need to find a purpose in life, they are all miserable. With that said, I rest my piece and sign off SE for good. You asked for suggestions and these people are knocking you and your mother-in-law down. That's downright nasty of them.

Bela asked for suggestions. OK, here are some suggestions:

"My mother in law is handicapped and lives in rent controlled apartment which is in horrific condition."

I'm still waiting to hear WHY this woman allowed her apartment to diminish over the years into "horrific condition."

***

"Now they are fixing the elevator for 2 weeks. I called the landlord who said it is her problem."

Now, why exactly did you call the landlord again? To complain about him fixing the elevator? Would you prefer if he DIDN'T fix the elevator, instead allowing it to stop working altogether?

***

"I asked him if the super can help her. He called the super while we were on the phone. The super said that it is not his job. The landlord then repeated that there is nothing he can do."

Help her do WHAT, exactly? Are you asking the super to physically CARRY her up and down the stairs? If that's the case, then no, that most certainly is NOT his job. And it's shameful that you even need to be told this in the first place.

***

"What can m mother in law do at this point? She lives alone."

I guess at this point, she's either going to have to pay for help, or turn to her family for help. She's going to have to accept some responsibility herself here. Assuming that it's somehow her landlord's responsibility to help her get around is entitlement mentality at its worst.

Not really sure what "rest my piece" means but whatever; not relevant.

No one is "knocking" anyone down. These are useful suggestions and input. Agree with Matt that there is a pervasive sense of entitlement amongst RC/RS tenants. In every building I've been involved in it's the RC/RS tenants who do the bulk of the complaining. It's laughable, really, when they're paying less than a third of market rent, haven't had an increase in years, and yet the market renters, who are carrying the bulk of the load, are much less prone to bitch and moan.

If someone is handicapped and elderly and living alone becomes difficult then it is probably time to consider other housing options.

the post asked for legal advice, not suggestions on how to live!!!

>sense of entitlement amongst RC/RS tenants

There is a difference between rent control and rent stabilization.

agreeing with Squid

At http://www.rsanyc.com you'll find lots of reasons to end rent controls. Maybe there's even somewhere for whoever gives a shit to donate to the landlords' lobbying efforts in Albany. They could use the help.

Save the Landlords!

"the post asked for legal advice, not suggestions on how to live!!!"

If you need legal advice you should spend the two dollars and consult with an attorney.

Calamari for the landlords!

1. Why should anyone eagerly pay more in rent? These boards are clearly filled with the yuppies that come to NYC and drive up the cost of rent. Its people like you that make it hard to get affordable housing.

2. This is an elderly woman that has worked all her life and has had her apartment for a while. She should have stable low rent! She has been paying her rent on time for years! She should have a grandfathered rate. This is not a handout. She has been here longer than you so she has a better deal. This is the case for most businesses, why should this not apply to renting?

3. NYC landlords are notorious for saying "It's getting fixed," and then doing nothing about the problem. Two weeks is too damn long for an elevator to be out. It does not take 2 weeks to fix an elevator. Point blank. The landlord needs to get it together.

4. Why should any rent paying tenant live in squalor? You pay rent! I don't care if you are young or old, got the apartment handed down to you, or came in on a lottery. I don't care how much you pay. You pay rent and if you pay it on time then you have rights.

5. Some of these tenants have been in the building longer that the current landlord has owned it. They made a business decision about purchasing the building with RC/RS tenants in them. Believe me, the landlords are not hurting.

6. To Bela: Contact the Tenants and Neighbors association and a housing attorney. Good luck.