Is Williamsburg overpriced

tommy, it might be tempting when you see how ridiculous the rental market is in the neighborhood, but I have a hard time seeing anything in the neighborhood being a great investment bet. There's still more rentals to come (upping your competition), which makes me doubt that these ultra-high rent increases are sustainable. But in general, I'm of the opinion that there's next to nothing out there that will be great for investment purposes, so if you're hellbent on investing in RE just make sure you do your homework.

PS - the nabe to the south of the bridge is South Williamsburg. Mostly Hasidic, and quite distinct from the north and south sides.

"I'm torn between W'burg/GreenPOint and Harlem/hamilton and Washington Heights. As usual, other observations would be appreciated."

Hands down, Washington Heights (not Hamilton Heights -- still not quite "arrived" yet). Living in Williamsburg will forever consign you to Transfer Hell on the subway for all of your days.

why washington heights as opposed to hamilton heighhts since wheights is so far north? are there any bars and good restaurants up there? I wouldn't want to move up there and feel as if I have to stay in the house.

As far as transfer hell, is it that bad. I spent about 6 hours walking around w'burg yesterday and i saw plenty of subway stations plus i walked over w'burg bridge since i like to walk i figure i could easily walk to manhattan to get to work or to get to bars in east village if i wanted to.

tommy, Matt is not exactly the voice of reason on these matters, IMHO. The "transfer hell" is really not a problem, depending on where you want to spend most of your time. If it's above, say, 59th St, then Williamsburg is definitely not ideal. But most spots below that aren't much of an issue. When I do leave Brooklyn, I prefer being downtown for the most part anyway. Can't do much better than Union Sq in ~5 minutes.

"why washington heights as opposed to hamilton heighhts since wheights is so far north?"

a) Hamilton Heights is still very much of an ungentrified Wild Wild West.

b) Washington Heights is not really that much "far north" compared to Hamilton Heights. Once you're on the A, it's only about another 3 minutes beyond Hamilton Heights to 168th Street.

"Can't do much better than Union Sq in ~5 minutes."

Not if you're a grownup.

Utterly useless commentary, as per usual, Mattie. Sorry not everyone hangs with the "grownups" on 168/Broadway.

Actually, the grownups are above 181st.

Great. Stay put please. The kiddies are doing just fine without you.

Actally I did notice that there doesn't appear to be as many free-spending 20/30-somethings in the Heights than W'burg. Do people think that will change. Its very interesting how nabs change? I've seen Chelsea and MeatPacking rise and some would say fall (too many ladies in their Laboutin's and guys in Ferrari doing the mating ritual). Wburg seems to remind me of the younger east village or a more sober Hoboken.

lol

"To Understand DUMBO you have to understand that it is really Brooklyn Heights."

Angelo, I'm still LOLing at that incredible comment of yours.

Im glad you save my quotes....now dont get me started on you and all your contradictions in this post alone. You really are the confused mascot of williamsburg.

Washington Heights (at least the Hudson Heights section) has all the amenities of the downtown nabes, just not the variety or quantity. There are maybe maybe 9-10 bars/restaurants (including a few great ones), but most of the area is very residential, so it'll never have young vibe of downtown

Angelo, go nuts. Where are my contradictions? We can gladly dive back into your complete gibberish on the topic as well. You never did answer some of those harder questions...

bjw , i'm not here to argue with you. What harder questions? I stated my opinion, and you didnt agree. What more is there to talk about?Sometimes i think you dont read or digest anything, you just like to see your own writing on the wall, and you defend an area when clearly you are biased, so your opinion counts little to me. I want to speak to an unbiased professional, like myself, who has no vested interest in the area to come up with a clear projection. We will see how it plays out with time. I'm laughing because obviously there are more people like the op, who think the area is overpriced. Believe me, i dont know him, i didnt put him up to it.

Angelo, I think you're not reading anything. I have consistently and clearly said that, as an investment, NYC real estate doesn't make much sense at these current prices. That goes for ALL Manhattan and Brooklyn neighborhoods I've looked at. You seem to think Williamsburg is somewhat isolated in its issues, but places like Dumbo (sorry, Brooklyn Heights), where you have PLENTY of vested interest (unbiased, huh?) will be a-ok.

"I'm laughing because obviously there are more people like the op, who think the area is overpriced."

Do you understand the difference between a question and a statement? (PS - That was a question).

I wonder if wburg overpriced or if it will just remain overpriced/expensive like Manhattan or Brooklyn Heights. When I read about rentals in new developments going like hotcakes - it makes one wonder?

http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2011/10/111-kent-avenue-more-than-50-rented/?accordion=blog-stream

tommy, that rental trend has been going on for over a year now, and every time I've said I don't see it lasting much longer. I still (somewhat doggedly) believe that - at some point, all this new rental inventory will surpass demand. I haven't been paying as close attention lately, but I know of at least one more very large building (~200 units) opening in the next few months. If you buy in the area, your potential renters are going to have a fair amount of choice.

very few can buy or want to buy right now.

incomes are down.. people are scared Sh$tless about future employment, increase in taxes, being able to afford retirement.. etc etc...

doesnt someone have to be the owner ? seems like if youve been able to purchase since 2009 ur in pretty good shape.

"seems like if youve been able to purchase since 2009 ur in pretty good shape."

That's what everyone was saying back in 2006, too.

well, two new developments in WB opened within the last two months.

in one, 2BRs start at $875k, and rise $50k/floor

in the other, the developer has raised prices 5% on some apartments, and they are selling very quickly.

so it would appear that things have heated up considerably here in terms of sales prices.

Let's re examine the convenience of Williamsburg vs Washington Heights
If you are visiting the following areas which nabe is a faster origination point.
Bronx- Washington Heights
Queens- Williamsburg
Staten Island- Williamsburg
Upstate- Washington Heights
West side of Manhattan above 59th st- Washington Heights
West side of Manhattan below 59th st - Williamsburg
Entire East side of Manhattan - Williamsburg
Brooklyn - Williamsburg
So obviously your destination determines the convenience of either starting point.
If you use this forum to cull information do yourself a favor and disregard anything NYCMatt has to say. A grumpy person unable to display one iota of objectivity.

"Let's re examine the convenience of Williamsburg vs Washington Heights
If you are visiting the following areas which nabe is a faster origination point. "

OK, lets:

"Bronx- Washington Heights." Only if you're travelling to the WEST Bronx. East of the zoo, it's just as long (if not longer) since you have to do the whole "U" subway thing (downtown then over then back uptown).

"Queens- Williamsburg" Not really. If you happen to live near the G train and are going to those parts of Queens near the G train, yes. Otherwise, it's actually quicker just coming down the A from Washington Heights and taking it from there.

"Staten Island- Williamsburg" Again, no. In this case it's a wash. From Williamsburg you have to take the L to the 1. From Washington Heights you just stay on the A.

"Upstate- Washington Heights". Yep. Provided, of course, you have a car.

"West side of Manhattan above 59th st- Washington Heights" Yep.

"West side of Manhattan below 59th st - Williamsburg" LOL absolutely no. Again, from Billyburg you take the L to the West Side in the 14th Street corridor. North or South of 14th Street will involve a subway transfer. Coming down from Washington Heights, you just get off at the West Side stop of your choice.

"Entire East side of Manhattan - Williamsburg". Yep. But don't kid yourself ... it'll still involve a subway transfer from the L to the 4/5/6.

"Brooklyn - Williamsburg" LOLOLOL!!! Absolutely not. Unless your Brooklyn destination is serviced by the G train, it's actually quicker to have hopped on the A at 175th Street.

Oh Matt as always you love to smudge the truth. You speak as if a "transfer" is a two hour process. I've lived in both hoods. The only thing that matters is time not transfers. Your run down is malarky just like most other things you say here. I stand by every statement i made. Each of those locales are reached in less time (not transfers) than what you propose. I would love to race you to anywhere in Brooklyn from Willaimsburg with you starting in Washington Heights. I will also race you to any point in manhattan south of 59th st. Just tell me when.
What i won't due is entertain your complete insanity. Jump on the A train and don't forget to get one of those great meals offered in that epicurean wonderland Washington Heights.

Wow, have times changed. For years bjw was ridiculed for buying in Williamsburg. Now, people are complaining about how expensive it is to rent there. It must be "overpriced". Guess Bjw made a pretty good choice after all?

>"Brooklyn - Williamsburg" LOLOLOL!!! Absolutely not. Unless your Brooklyn destination is serviced by the G train, it's actually quicker to have hopped on the A at 175th Street.

Seriously?

angeloz
>and you defend an area when clearly you are biased, so your opinion counts little to me. I want to speak to an unbiased professional, like myself, who has no vested interest in the area to come up with a clear projection.

Unbiased = knows nothing.

Why not seek biased opinions on all sides, and then make up your mind?

"Brooklyn - Williamsburg" LOLOLOL!!! Absolutely not. Unless your Brooklyn destination is serviced by the G train, it's actually quicker to have hopped on the A at 175th Street.

Seriously?"

Yes, seriously.

I served out my sentence in Williamsburg. BTDT. To go from Williamsburg to virtually anywhere else in Brooklyn, it was actually quicker to take the L train back into Manhattan, transfer to the A/C/4/5/2/3, and go back into Brooklyn.

I find this discussion lacking the most important aspect of Williamsburg real estate. How much undeveloped inventory is there? Meaning how many more new towers and buildigs can be built over the next 10 years?

My understanding is that there is still a MASSIVE amount of undeveloped FAR in W'burg. What does this mean? Good luck selling your 3,5,10 year old condo with 3,5,10 year old finishes, appliances, common areas, etc when a massive amount of new condos will be hitting the market every year with brand new finishes, appliances, common areas etc. Or good luck selling when your water view gets blocked by large glass tower that is newer than yours....

Or, good luck selling when significantly higher land and construction costs translate into higher prices per foot. It's amazing how clueless most the people are on this board!

"My understanding is that there is still a MASSIVE amount of undeveloped FAR in W'burg. What does this mean?"

It means nothing, because who the hell wants to live FAR into Williamsburg??

Matt, your understanding of transportation timing and options is so off, but that's a tired subject by this point. I'm just glad you enjoy Washington Heights and stay far away from my neighborhood.

JuiceMan, to be honest, not really that many people that tried "ridiculing me." But most of em are now either grayed out, long gone, or pretty laughable. Always fun.

Oh, it's cool that you are black vs. grey, but you don't know basics like the difference between principal and interest.

Matt,

FAR = Floor Area Ratio.... Real Estate 101.

NYCMatt, you never responded to my G train challenge - what gives?

NYCMatt: WALKING is a faster option than the G train.

Me: Ok, let's make a little wager on that. We can both start at the Metropolitan Ave G stop and race to, I don't know, Carroll St. You'll be on foot, and I'll take the G train. Whoever loses owes the winner $10k. Deal?

Come on, Matt - stand by your words!

I just saw asking rents at 111 Kent - seem every bit as high as prime Manhattan rents - what's the tradeoff for being across the East River at those prices?

People who say the A gets you from 181st Street to Midtown/Downtown/Brooklyn in a jiffee remind me of all the people who live on Long Island "only 10 minutes from the Rail Road." Right...........

lowery, those rents (to me) are insane, but apparently they're going fairly quickly:
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2011/10/111-kent-avenue-more-than-50-rented/

wow - this is evidently a strong rental market, because although it's a nice looking building, it is NOT in Manhattan and is not priced at any discount to Manhattan that I can see. It's also a low-rise guaranteed to lose whatever views it may have of the skyline. Did someone say rents were going down? Where?

lowery, those views are actually protected - it's facing a state park.

>those views are actually protected - it's facing a state park.

You don't think Cuomo is putting state parks up for sale to pay for the senior center to pay for votes for him?

that's nice, bjw, but it still seems high for an outer-borough building, no matter how luxe

lowery, I agree. Especially when you see this listing:
http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/0b447dfa32f7ee2fd17f2022b006106e.html

"wow - this is evidently a strong rental market, because although it's a nice looking building, it is NOT in Manhattan and is not priced at any discount to Manhattan that I can see."

Frankly it should be discounted to BROOKLYN, as well.

I moved to North Wburg almost 1 year ago, knowing the glut of existing and planned inventory. After 1 year, comparable apartments to mine are renting for 30% more than my monthly carry. The new rentals may slow down the rate of price increases, however they do lock in the current rental prices for the long term. I haven't paid too much attention to the market lately, so I'm shocked to see the finger building more than 50% in contract after 1 month of sales with an avg list of $936/sqft:
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2011/11/finger-is-banging/

NYCMatt, still no take on the G train offer? Why the silence?

re_guru, I'm pretty shocked at the activity at 144 North 8th as well. Especially the fact that all the penthouses are taken.

111 interiors are nice, but that building is ugly...the "Finger" is just gay...sorry..I love gay people, but that buildings name is the worst...

what happened to 142 n 6th. 88 s 1st, 390 lorimer, 196 s. 2nd,149 huron, 136 powers, 35 havemeyer, 174 jackson? more ugly, undesirable construction in williamsburg?

I hate brooklyn