Bringing in broker after viewing apartment

Yes. You cannot bring in a third party at the 11th hour. If your broker did not find you the apt, accompany you to the showing of the apt and did not get involved in the negotiations of the apt, then he/she has not earned any part of the 15% fee. It is due in full to the listing/exclusive broker. 15% is not a windfall. It is what is the routine percentage for a rental apt in NYC.

>>>>Is it too late to bring in our own broker to advise us?

what advice do you need from a broke-r?

yes, 15% is not a windfall LOL, it is routine...
everything is negotiable, the rent and the fee, don't be too much of a novice, do what is right for you, maybe the broker that advised you can help you, but if you feel comfortable using your broker, ask their opinion in this situation, it is your money don't let anyone tell you what you can or can't do
Don't let other people spend your hard earned money for you..15% (they should wear a mask and a gun)

good point Matsui, I am sure novice could get better advice on this board..

"and we are thinking the broker should not object because even thought it will cut his take in half, it seems his getting the full 15% would have been just a windfall anyway".
Right, and when your boss tells you that s/he's getting someone else in to consult on your work, and s/he's cutting your salary by 50% because s/he feels you're just getting a windfall, let's see how you would feel about it.

I also don't really understand why you need another broker's validation of your decision - jeez, you like the space and you like the price, and you were okay with paying the original broker's fee. Now you need someone to tell you it's a nice apartment?

>Yes. You cannot bring in a third party at the 11th hour. If your broker did not find you the apt, accompany you to the showing of the apt and did not get involved in the negotiations of the apt, then he/she has not earned any part of the 15% fee. It is due in full to the listing/exclusive broker. 15% is not a windfall. It is what is the routine percentage for a rental apt in NYC.

What exactly is the 11th hour? Everything I know about real estate is there's only a 12th hour. Either there's a deal, or there isn't. And in this circumstance, NYCNovice walks, how's that 11th hour feel for the listing broker?

Oops, I'm the listing broker and NYCNovice is about to walk. Ok, I'll cut my fee to 1 month (8.25%) and then no 2nd broker is needed, right?

wrong h-burg. as a listing agent id pull the plug on this deal rather than give half the fee away to someone who wasnt apart of the transaction from the beginning. let them find a new place.

Two can play that game.

why dont you try to negotiate the 15% down, since you have no broker?

and by pulling the plug on the deal you would be sure that YOUR interests were taken care of and not the apt. owner or the renter. instead of using your brain and negotiating or making the tenant comfortable with their decision, you would use all your might and pull the plug!!! LOL perfect. way to pay it forward

>LOL perfect. way to pay it forward

Is that like karma?

gcondo has a good suggestion. Try to negotiate the commission down and you may threaten not to rent it. Most brokers will come down to 10-12%. That is what I always did in the past.

You are entitled to any representation you choose, 11th hour or not. That said, why bother for a rental?? There is really nothing that I can think of that your broker would be able to 'advise' you on with this. A sale, I can understand. But for a rental it just seems like overkill. You're overthinking this one.

It's gonna piss the broker off. Despite their fiduciary responsibility to the owner, brokers are incentivized to bring in a one-sided deal for themselves. I.e., the favor you may have been shown on pricing may be related to the one-sided fee.

I'd suggest you ask for the 12% corporate rate on the fee. Getting this should be automatic.

As far as getting someone to advise you, that is a fine idea. A broker is probably a terrible person to do so, though, as all they are incentivized to do is close the deal. I'd suggest using a trusted resource like a friend.

>I'd suggest using a trusted resource like a friend.

friend who knows about rentals

Had there been any negotiation with the broker, I would hesitate, but the situation went like this: We saw the apartment, we liked it and said we would take it. There were other people viewing it at same time we were. Next communication we got was from landlord's attorney, and we have been negotiating with landlord's attorney on terms of lease; there has been no negotiation on price and we are fine with it. Still in negotiation with landlord's attorney on lease, we and get a call from the broker (whom we met only once at showing and have had no discussion with at all) saying that he knows we are in negotiation with landlord, but needs us to pay his fee to take apartment off the market. We are thinking - what? why would we pay this guy's fee when we have not concluded lease; more the point, why are we paying this guy's fee at all? Why isn't landlord paying his fee?

Firstly, this post is vague in that the poster says that he/she is willing to pay the fee, and that he/she is working with a Property Manager or Owner directly, considering introducing a fee broker. These parties (Owners and PM's) are not entitled to brokerage fees paid by approved Applicants in NYC.

In New York, you as a prospective tenant/applicant reserve the right to introduce representation at ANY TIME (just as you reserve the right to "fire" a broker or agent who is not working to your satisfaction or working unethically), especially if YOU are paying the broker.

Even if the Management Company were paying an OP, you reserve that right - though they may not be able to give you the "preferred" or discounted monthly rental price by paying the broker...but again, you said you would pay the broker directly.... If you are paying 15%, 20%, 3%, whatever you want for someone's advice and expertise, that is your choice and right. If your company is paying the broker, and you found and secured the apt and lease on your own, I could see how things could get sticky and they would not want to pay. Also, if an Owner or MGMT Company who would be expecting to not pay a fee since they showed you the apt and secured you the Lease and set up appointments, etc - I could see how they could oppose...but again you said you are paying. But who is anyone to say that you do not reserve the right to pay a fee of any rate to whomever you want to advise you on a leasing decision.

It is within your rights to introduce representation at any point up until executed (Owner and Tenant Ink-Signed) Contacts. Also, Property Owners and Management Companies are not entitled to "cuts" from Broker commissions in NYC. Someone please correct me if any of these points are wrong, but I am sure I can find you Leasing Directors at Major Firms that agree with everything I have said.

Feel free to contact me directly, I will try and help for no charge. I am not a lawyer and cannot advise on legalities or tell you what you can or can't sign, but I can tell you about the market.

Also to be clear, if there was a broker (Listing Broker), and she was not dealing with the Owner or a Property Manager directly, obviously introducing a broker last minute to try and co-broke would raise flags - but if she is truly for for a For Rent By Owner or even going through a Property Management Office, as long as there is no listing broker, why should she not reserve the right to hire a broker to review the leases and advise her on the market? It's her choice. But if she was shown an apt that was advertised by a true listing broker, I could see where things could get messy. Again, the original question was not vague, but didn't say whether or not the property was listed by a broker or a real Owner/PM company...

"The property owner should not object because our bringing in a broker does not affect his take."

This is where it gets vague and needs clarification in order to give informed advice.

I think I have received the advice I was looking for and that we need to negotiate with two separate people if we are going to take the apartment. We saw the apartment in response to broker listing, and representative of the broker was the one who showed us the apartment. We never hired the broker to do anything. We only showed up in response to broker's ad. Broker then gave our information to unit owner, whose representative then contacted us and started working out terms of the lease. Broker then called us and told us we had to pay her fee to take apartment off the market. We told broker to keep apartment on the market because we have not come to terms on the lease. Even if we come to terms on the lease, we will still need to come to terms on broker fee. What is confusing is that we have been dealing with owner's representative directly; owner's representative is not affiliated with broker. I guess if I were the broker, I would not want owner's representative talking directly to prospective tenant. Causes confusion, particularly for people like us who are not familiar with the way things are done here.

Thought I replied to this already but do not see my post up here. I think what I understand from all of the above is that we need to negotiate with two people before signing lease. Landlord is negotiating directly with us on the lease, but we did view the apartment in response to a broker's ad. We never "hired" the broker for anything. The broker listed the apartment for the landlord. Confusing to be dealing with two parties, but we will figure it out.

>Landlord is negotiating directly with us on the lease, but we did view the apartment in response to a broker's ad. We never "hired" the broker for anything. The broker listed the apartment for the landlord. Confusing to be dealing with two parties, but we will figure it out.

Let the landlord figure it out. Seems already that the landlord is going direct. Broker, if he feels he earned a fee, can go after the landlord.*

* Not legal advice

are you sure you dealt with a listing broker? I find it strange that the broker is telling you to pay their fee to take the property off the market.

If you want to negotiate lease terms with a lawyer, maybe you should get a lawyer. Welcome to NYC.

It sounds like you need to consult with a broker or lawyer on this. You should not be paying a fee to any broker before you sign a lease, anything you pay should be due at closing.

Did the broker showing you the apartment ask you to sign the New York State Disclosure form explaining whom he/she represents in the transaction?? This is required in all real estate transactions.

It is all seems above-board; owner and broker are working together. We did sign disclosure form, which made it clear broker was working for the owner (form was blank but we checked "seller" box where there was choice to mark entity being represented by the agent). Lease has broker's name in appropriate section and makes clear that we need to come to separate agreement with broker and will indemnify landlord for any claim for broker's fee. All of that is fine and broker has offered to cut fee to 10%, which we are fine with. Sad thing is that whole exercise may be moot because landlord is refusing to cross out one provision under which we give up right to counterclaims and another provision under which we agree to pay landlord's attorney's fees for any dispute. Who would rent an apartment with those clauses in the lease?

everyone in NY. these are standard lease terms.

Really? Has nobody out there ever succeeded in getting a landlord to strike these terms? We are going to have to learn this lesson the hard way by losing a few good apartments before believing that these terms are non-negotiable.

Sounds like you are anticipating a dispute.

We were prepared to walk away, and the landlord agreed to strike the terms. Our feeling is that the lease should clearly set terms so there will be no dispute; if there is a dispute despite a well-written lease, then each side should bear the costs of resolving the dispute or at the very least agree that whoever loses the dispute will pay all the fees. That is just our personal feeling, and we are glad that our new landlord turned out to be of the same mind.

I think in this case you didn't need to bring in a broker for representation, you found the place already, and have applied. You could have brought in an attorney to review the lease. No Real Estate Broker should ever give legal advice if they are not licensed to practice law.

I had this happen once. Woman comes to see apartment alone. Falls in love with it. Her BFF is an agent. She insisted on using said BFF as her agent. I offered her a reduced fee to go it alone but she wouldn't hear of it. Fine. Talked to BFF for two minutes before realizing she's never done a rental transaction. Paperwork faxed to my office was such a mess that I called candidate and told her to drop BFF because she was being poorly advised. I said "even if you decide not to work with me on finding your next apartment, find someone else to work with besides her because she doesn't know what she's doing". In the end, she lost the apartment.

Yes! It seems everyone has an ignorant real estate agent friend who wants to make money when it is clearly not only innappropriate, but not in the best interests of the renter or buyer.

Many people who shouldn't get liscensed do, and that is the reason why many disgruntled people think that they can "do it themselves" without a broker.

They see incompetant agents struggle through a transaction and finally make a few bucks and they unfortunately assume all real estate professionals are like that.

As with any profession, some are good at it, some are great at it, and some are simply horrendous at it. It may be relatively simple to get a RE liscense,(although they are making it harder now) but to be an excellent broker requires skills that many do not possess.