how much to .....?

Depend with finishes, size and scope. starts from $50K goes up.

Shoot me an email if you have pictures or plans i can give you better idea.

estimator at msn com

Ageller3,

It really depends on so many factors. Everything from what are the walls made out of to what kind of faucet.

I will tell you in general terms:

A complete gut bathroom in Manhattan will cost you anywhere from 25k and up.
A complete kitchen can cost: $30,000 and up

There will be other people here that will say those prices are crazy. I have been a GC for over 15 years and thats what is costs 95% of my clients.

For comparison you can see what I am talking about at www.primerenovationsnyc.com Most of the work is considered to be med-hi-end.

I will affirm what Primer and estimator are saying. Those prices are crazy. But as he said, it is what 95% of the people who use him will pay. I am not exactly sure what that means though.

I would suggest you shop around, ask some friends you know and trust, for references - get several opinions.

I can give you info on a reasonable contractor we have used in the past.

Gcondo,

I will try to explain it to you. When my clients (95%) renovate there bathrooms it usually costs them around $25,000-$30,000.00.

The other 5% varies, some are less and some are a lot more.

I will break it down and please tell me what exactly is too high (this is a project we are currently doing:

Vanity: $833.00
Sink: $425.00
Faucet: $581.00
Showerbody: $1669.00
Zuma tub: $1,037.00
Tub drain: $237.00
Robern Medicine cabinet: $757.14
Wall hung toilet: 394.40
Toilet seat: $187.00
Carrier for toilet: 367.00
Outbend for toilet: $100.00
Flush: 220.00

Total for plumbing fixtures: $6,087.00 that is with my 20-30% discount

Tile:

Marble tile on all walls and floors: $3,500.00

Lighting: $400.00

Shower door enclosures: $1,800.00

Accessories: $500.00

Total purchases: $12,287.00 plus tax and shipping : $13,500.00

Plumber: $5000.00
GC: $11,500.00

Total: $30,000.00

Can you get finishes cheaper? Of course, not everybody needs a wall hung toilet or a Villeroy & Boch vanity and sink but they are very nice.

I can tell you what it cost me to renovate our 5x8 bathroom in Queens. I don't think it should make such a difference from Manhattan.

Vanity - 200 From the cabinet store we also redid our kitchen. Standard 30" 3 drawer vanity
Quartz counter on vanity - 200 From the same store, they sell cabinets and stones
Floor and wall tiles - 500 Classictile in BK. White gloss subway ceramic for walls and mosaic white & black ceramic on floor
Tub - 500 FaucetDirect Kohler K-1510-X Hourglass collection
Toilet - 365 Homeclick TOTO Aquia III
Medicine cabinet - Homeclick NuTone 495 Styline
Faucet - 115 Homeclick Vigo VG01032CH
Showerbody - 415 Homeclick Aquadis S12C-9552-3CH
Light - 80 Homeclick Transglobe 2910-PC
Towel bar/ring - Homeclick Kohler Coralais
Glass Shelves - 103 Creative Specialties/Moen Icon Chrome

Total: $2659
GC: Charged $3000 for the labor and included any material needed, ie pipes, walls, grout, silicone

Angray,

Just a couple of questions

1. Was this GC licensed?
2. Did he have insurance?
3. Did he use a licensed plumber?
4. What were your bathroom walls made out of? sheetrock?
5. What is your vanity made out of
6. Did the plumber/ contractor use copper or pvc?
7. Custom glass shower enclosure? or shower curtain?
8. Do you have any pictures you can share?
9. What kind of building do you live in? are there certain hours of work and building rules?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No
4. Not sure
5. Wood. Dark Walnut
6. Copper
7. Curtain
8. I have pictures on my phone, not sure how I can share
9. Condo. 8:30 - 5:00

Angray,

Would you share your contractor with the people here? How did he get away with not using a licensed plumber? Would you consider your renovation to be low end? Medium? Or high end?

The finishes are what I picked and wanted, shopping for better prices doesn't make it low end. It is what it is.

where is the cost of removing/demolishing the old bathroom factored in? Is, for example, removing the old tile included in the price of installing the new tile?

Nintzk,

The price is included GC price. The gc price includes all setting materials as well as protection and cleaning. Your project would be considerable less as you are renovating for a different use.

ageller3,

Pricing is so varied dependent largely on the materials you choose and if you are relocating plumbing fixtures/walls.

I would like to speak with via phone/e-mail to help understand your kitchen and bathroom needs.

516.487.6097 stephen@capitalcraftsmen.com

www.capitalcraftsmen.com

Re: Plumber: $5000.00

My friend the suburban plumber finds this number hysterical.

West 34,

It is a different animal. You should ask him if he would like to work in Manhattan. Most of the trades who work in the suburbs come in to the city to do a job and it is usually there last. I have guys in Queens who are reluctant to come into the city.

the GC charge of $3K is low, my licensed guy told me $5K (unlicensed was $3K). the rest is what i would expect angray paid. the glass enclosures that my friends have been getting are always around $1K.

if you tell a plumber from the burbs that he can make $5K at least once a month on this kind of job, they would up their insurance and deal with it. the job takes only 1 day for a plumber and an assistant.

How can it possibly take a day?

1. Plumber comes day of demo to make sure no leaks
2. Has to come to install shutoffs when the building shuts down the line
3. Has to come back after we finish tiling to install the fixtures, if it is a drop in tub it might require an additional visit
4. Has to be there for the 1st inspection and the last.
5. Are you including a permit?

How can that be done in one day?

What GC wants a plumber just to come in on one project? I need a plumber that will work for me every week at least.

When you say the GC charge is $5,000.00 what does that include? Does it include the gc going to the suppliers and ordering everything for you? and giving you their discount? Does it include all labor besides the plumber?

First, work in a coop in Manhattan means no cutting corners on licensed tradesmen who must also be insured. Things like demo debris removal in Manh coops is also more of a hassle--you can't just toss it out the window; therefore it is more expensive than demo removal in a single family home in Ridgewood, Queens. Second, one poster above says: "The finishes are what I picked and wanted, shopping for better prices doesn't make it low end. It is what it is." That, plainly said, is ridiculous. You can shop all you want, but a nickel plated Waterworks thermostatic valve shower set up is highend and a fortune while most (if not all) Home Depot options are decidedly low-to-mid end in quality. Similarly, Calcatta marble set in a custom pattern in a bathroom with a custom designed walk-in shower with tempered glass frameless shower walls is high end while the 12"x12" squares of whatever you buy at Home Depot and the shower rod are low-to-mid end. A $1000 Duravit pedestal sink is nicer than the $100 "bargain" from Lowe's. The shower baskets you find for $25 each are not the same as the eye-poppingly expensive and infinitely nicer nickel plated Samuel Heath baskets you order through Simon's Hardware. It isn't a matter of taste or debate. One may be happy with budget fixtures and finishes, but that doesn't make them high end. And the best stuff simply cannot be found below a certain price point. The labor is also mmore expensive for high end work very often because it is more difficult and time consuming to work with the materials and create the designs; for example, cutting small pieces of marble to fit into a complex pattern is $$$. Slapping on a bunch of square tiles from the close out bin is relatively cheaper.

People can grouse all they like. But high end Manhattan work cost a lost and there aren't really many ways around that. It shows in the level of finish quality. Granted, some people cannot tell the difference or don't care--that's the same reason why some people are very happy with Wrangler jeans and others are willing to spend $250 for a pair of Diesel jeans. It isn't just the label, although both are indeed just pants. One is pretty perfunctory in function and appearance. The other is cut better, feels better, looks better, and to those who notice and appreciate it, it matters.

Primer is pretty dead-on with his pricing estimates imo. Granted much of his work is high end and some money can be saved, even with him, by using less expensive materials in less labor-intensive ways. But most people just aren't aware of why Manhattan costs more, what makes something "high end," and the true cost of getting "high end." If you've no idea what the difference is between a shower curtain, a framed glass partition, and a frameless tempered clear-glass partition, then you've no business commenting on the accuracy of estimates for high end work.

Kyle,

Once again I will ask. Would you like to come work with us?

lol, Primer.
Most contractors in the burbs won't even take jobs in Manhattan.

Before any work may begin, you'll need to get the plans approved by your building's board/management company and then the Department of Buildings. Often, home buyers underestimate the time and cost associated with maneuvering these steps. You'll encounter an architect, an expediter, an asbestos report, and a filing fee to get started.

There are many ways to assemble a budget for the finishes. As for the cost of materials, you 100% get what you pay for in terms of quality. There are some items that make sense to purchase direct and then others should be sourced by your contractor. A $200 Kohler faucet available at Lowe's is not the same as a $500 Kohler faucet purchased through a reputable plumbing supply company. I strongly advise against purchasing stones online, for it's nearly impossible to see the differences in quality that allow for the reduced pricing. In most of my projects, I specify the recessed and task lights for the contractor to purchase and install. I then assist the client in selecting the decorative fixtures (chandeliers, pendants, sconces, etc.). This provides an opportunity for the homeowner to recoup some value in purchasing lighting online at discounted pricing.

I agree with Primer05's overall bathroom breakdown. A kitchen project would likely start around $50k when you're done with the demo/prep work, flooring, cabinets, counters, backsplash, appliances, gas/electric, and the cost of labor/materials. This number quickly rises if the cabinet boxes are plywood and not particle board or MDF.

If you have any questions about the process or would like input on a the potential of a specific purchase, please feel free to email me at info@hirshsondesign.com

kylewest - My point was everything is relative when speaking of high-end low-end materials. You can find sinks more expensive than your $1000 Duravit, does that make it low-end?

Also, nobody wears Diesel jeans anymore. If you do, then you need to get with it.

angray, I just disagree with you, mostly. Everything is relative to a point, but there are limits. We're talking here about the world of Manhattan RE. Not Manhattan and Monrovia and Amman and Fairbanks. Just Manhattan. Here, there is a starting point for high end and it won't be found in Home Depot's plumbing aisles. Now, you can have a nice sculpted top end Duravit toilet in a high end bathroom, or one of those electronic crappers that washes your tushy and blows it dry and opens and closes itself for $5000. They are both high end; one is just higher. But the existence of gold-plated faucets doesn't make Waterworks mid-range. It's just gradations of high. Just like in economic terms, there is upper-upper, middle-upper, and lower-upper class...but all three are upper class. A galley kitchen in Manhattan that is "high end" is simply going to cost about $45,000+++. That's because high end means custom millwork, expensive countertops, fancy appliances, nice hardware, etc. You simply cannot do it for $20,000 when the millwork alone will cost you that much if you get a really, really great deal.

Primer's pricing is consistent with what I've seen over 25 years of being up close and personal with Manhattan renovations. Take the gut reno of a one bedroom/one bath. Forget finishes. Let's just talk conservative fixed start up costs. Architect for design, bid assistance and review, construction oversight: $20,000. Expeditor: $6,000. Building engineer's review: $1000. Building alteration application fee: $500. Permits: $500. Asbestos test: $500. I'm tired of writing, but without swinging a hammer, you are up to at least $28,000, easily. So those costs per sq. ft. estimates include all this stuff and that is why they always seem high. You simply don't pay these fees or as much for these items in the burbs. In NYC it is the going rate.

>Take the gut reno of a one bedroom/one bath. Forget finishes. Let's just talk conservative fixed start up costs. Architect for design, bid assistance and review, construction oversight: $20,000. Expeditor: $6,000. Building engineer's review: $1000. Building alteration application fee: $500. Permits: $500. Asbestos test: $500. I'm tired of writing, but without swinging a hammer, you are up to at least $28,000, easily

Is that included in the $500 psf?

Yes

Kylewest's accounting of the process is dead on!

Simply put, it's much harder to get work completed in Manhattan than in other locations. No one accounts for the little things such as where the plumber parks the van, or a building super who makes a carpenter wait 30 minutes to ride down to obtain materials. Projects take longer and at a greater expense.

Homeowners can control cost by shopping select items online and by opting for more economically priced fixtures (Danze/Moen versus Grohe/Kohler), however, there's a noticeable difference in the quality and long-term performance.