I don't know if this will post to SE, but I've tried posting before and 80% of my posts remain unposted. I am trying to find out if it standard to get a separate cost for labour and materials on a renovation proposal from a contractor. I recently got one that had them lumped together, and when I asked for them to be separate, I never heard back. What's the standard? I am assuming it wouldn't... [more]
I don't know if this will post to SE, but I've tried posting before and 80% of my posts remain unposted.
I am trying to find out if it standard to get a separate cost for labour and materials on a renovation proposal from a contractor. I recently got one that had them lumped together, and when I asked for them to be separate, I never heard back. What's the standard? I am assuming it wouldn't change the labour cost if I am using Ikea cabinets or something more high end.
I also wanted to know if I could have the different contractors come in to see the place at the same time. This would be a lot easier for me than having them come one by one and having to explain what I want. Is this standard? It's my first purchase and reno... I am traveling this summer so want to streamline the process.
Fingers crossed that this will post.
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Response by roseslg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: Aug 2011
Just bumping this up in the hopes that I will get a response.
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Response by CAPITALcraft
over 13 years ago
Posts: 98
Member since: Mar 2010
The standard is labor and material combined over the different sections; demo, carpentry, tile etc. Labor only proposals are also done. Ask yourself, are you really covering all the materials though? Their is far more material to a kitchen than just cabinets. Labor costs will vary depending on the material you are working with. Ie; a slab back splash versus mosaic tiles is not the same labor/sq.ft. If you want to get all the GC's together at once, it's OK but not ideal.
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Response by roseslg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: Aug 2011
He had separated it out based on the different sections you described. I just wasn't sure what type of materials he used to come up with the total cost. I briefly explained to him what I wanted in terms of a backsplash. I just thought there would be some details when citing a combined cost. Just something that would say that the figure quoted was based on using this amount of product A as the material.
Maybe I'll just schedule them back to back.
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Response by ArxConstruction
over 13 years ago
Posts: 45
Member since: Apr 2012
roseslg,
It is all up to you if you want a contractor to give you a lump sum or all broken down by material and labor cost, or can also provide material and ask for labor price only.
Regarding the labor of kitchen cabinets, the labor price is very different between the assembled cabinets and Ikea cabinets that come in boxes needed to be assembled. last Ikea kitchen we did came in 160+ boxes, it took a while to get it assembled. (labor time=$)
Having more than one contractor at the same time is not a good idea for couple of reasons,
1.you want to hear different opinions and different approaches to the job, this will help you out get a better picture of the contractor's expertise,
2. Contractors will feel uncomfortable being in the same room with the other contractors and sharing their opinion.
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Response by roseslg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: Aug 2011
Thanks Arx! It's my first renovation, so all of this is quite new to me. After the experience, it may be my last! Is what's quote below reasonable? I had mentioned using Ikea Cabinets.
Remove and dispose of existing partition, flooring, kitchen
cabinets and ceiling material $1,900.00
Frame and sheetrock all surfaces to prepare for new cabinets
and ceiling $3,100.00
Lic. Electricain to run power and set up for 10 new points $2,400.00
Lic. Plumber to set up new dish washer and washer dryer hook up $5,000.00
Labor and materials to install new ceramic floor tile $2,250.00
Labor only to install owner supplied kitchen cabinets $3,190.00
Labor and materials to tape and polish walls and ceiling ready to
prime $1,850.00
Labor and materials to prime and paint walls and ceiling $1,275.00
Labor and materials to install backsplash ceramic wall tiles $1,580.00
The general conditions of the maintence of the job site $1,720.00
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Response by Nintzk
over 13 years ago
Posts: 96
Member since: Nov 2011
I'm not a contractor, but I am currently doing some renovation work and have been dealing with a lot of contractors and workers. I havea few questions and comments
What type of building is this?
What size is your kitchen?
What exactly do you mean by washer dryer hook up? Is there a water line for the washer and a vent for the dryer already or is that being istalled?
Also, the "labor and materials to tape and polish walls and ceiling ready to prime" at $1850 seems like complete nonsense. Taping drywall is just part of putting sheetrock up. A 5 year old could do it. And you don't polish sheetrock. Do you know what he means by polish? If he means just putting a thin layer of joint compound over it, again, I think this is just part of putting up sheetrock. And again, it is incredibly easy.
Lastly, I've gotten three estimates and none of them included a "general conditions of the maintenance of the job site" clause. Maybe some contractors on this board can say whether this is common or not. As far as I see it, the prices you listed are "contractor" prices and should already include any maintenance / supervision / acting responsibly.
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Response by ArxConstruction
over 13 years ago
Posts: 45
Member since: Apr 2012
I was also wondering about the "general conditions of the maintence of the job site", that is a common sense, whatever job the contractor does he is responsible for protecting the property and keeping it clean. Regarding the "polish", I guess he meant skim coat.
Well, some prices are ok and some are a little high, I would say the total cost should be 20%-30% less.
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Response by Primer05
over 13 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Rosig,
Sorry you are having a tough time on your first renovation. I think they are taking advantage of you just looking at the plumbing price. That seems very high. The electric is fair if it really is ten points, i wonder what he is considering a point. His price seems a little high. Demo seems fair, Flooring seems high, how big is your kitchen? Backsplash is very high unless you are doing something difficult, does it include the tiles? Overall prices seem high to me
Nintzk,
A 5 year old could not do it. It seems easy but it is not, we started a project in the Hamptons today and since someone did not tape correctly we need to cut it all out and start over, when he was finished I am sure it looked good. General conditions is normal. It includes such items as insurances and protection
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Response by roseslg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: Aug 2011
I also thought that the cost was a bit high for what I plan to do. I am making what was once an eat in kitchen and then was split into a tiny kitchen and a second bedroom back into an eat in kitchen. The two rooms are showing on the plan as about 11 * 6 each, but where the kitchen is now is definitely not 11*6. The washer/dryer will go on the same line as the bathroom. I told him I'd be using subway tiles for the back-splash, ceramic tiles on the floor (I already know which tiles I want). I was surprised by the cost. Since I wasn't having anything too fancy done. The only cost he didn't include was the cabinets and appliances.
I am hoping to have a couple more contractors in once I close. Hopefully they are better and more responsive. I emailed him weeks ago and no response. I am definitely not using this guy.
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Response by Primer05
over 13 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Roseig,
If you want me to look at your project i would be happy too. We install Ikea all the time. Here are some of them we just completed
You can call me at 646-436-3942 or email primerenovations@mac.com
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Response by Nintzk
over 13 years ago
Posts: 96
Member since: Nov 2011
it was hyperbole...but, i would love to know how someone taped incorrectly.
Also, from what I've been told, dryers need to be independently vented
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Response by Primer05
over 13 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
nintzk,
In the case of the project we just started the tape at all the corners were "popping" at the corners. Every corner was cracking which we could not paper over. The most common problem is when done incorrectly you see the sheetrock seams
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Response by roseslg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: Aug 2011
Primer, I'll send you a message. I am traveling now, but will be back in the U.S. next week.
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Response by nycgal123
over 13 years ago
Posts: 3
Member since: Jul 2012
Roseslg, i used Minch Construction for a similar project to yours. The owner was very professional and hands on, and like you this was my first renovation too so I was really apprehensive as to choosing a reliable contractor. I still have the owner's cell # etc so message me for the details but they have a great team and you wont be disappointed!
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Response by alanhart
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Never trust anyone named Alan.
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Response by roseslg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: Aug 2011
nycgal123, how do you message someone on this thing?
Just bumping this up in the hopes that I will get a response.
The standard is labor and material combined over the different sections; demo, carpentry, tile etc. Labor only proposals are also done. Ask yourself, are you really covering all the materials though? Their is far more material to a kitchen than just cabinets. Labor costs will vary depending on the material you are working with. Ie; a slab back splash versus mosaic tiles is not the same labor/sq.ft. If you want to get all the GC's together at once, it's OK but not ideal.
He had separated it out based on the different sections you described. I just wasn't sure what type of materials he used to come up with the total cost. I briefly explained to him what I wanted in terms of a backsplash. I just thought there would be some details when citing a combined cost. Just something that would say that the figure quoted was based on using this amount of product A as the material.
Maybe I'll just schedule them back to back.
roseslg,
It is all up to you if you want a contractor to give you a lump sum or all broken down by material and labor cost, or can also provide material and ask for labor price only.
Regarding the labor of kitchen cabinets, the labor price is very different between the assembled cabinets and Ikea cabinets that come in boxes needed to be assembled. last Ikea kitchen we did came in 160+ boxes, it took a while to get it assembled. (labor time=$)
Having more than one contractor at the same time is not a good idea for couple of reasons,
1.you want to hear different opinions and different approaches to the job, this will help you out get a better picture of the contractor's expertise,
2. Contractors will feel uncomfortable being in the same room with the other contractors and sharing their opinion.
Thanks Arx! It's my first renovation, so all of this is quite new to me. After the experience, it may be my last! Is what's quote below reasonable? I had mentioned using Ikea Cabinets.
Remove and dispose of existing partition, flooring, kitchen
cabinets and ceiling material $1,900.00
Frame and sheetrock all surfaces to prepare for new cabinets
and ceiling $3,100.00
Lic. Electricain to run power and set up for 10 new points $2,400.00
Lic. Plumber to set up new dish washer and washer dryer hook up $5,000.00
Labor and materials to install new ceramic floor tile $2,250.00
Labor only to install owner supplied kitchen cabinets $3,190.00
Labor and materials to tape and polish walls and ceiling ready to
prime $1,850.00
Labor and materials to prime and paint walls and ceiling $1,275.00
Labor and materials to install backsplash ceramic wall tiles $1,580.00
The general conditions of the maintence of the job site $1,720.00
I'm not a contractor, but I am currently doing some renovation work and have been dealing with a lot of contractors and workers. I havea few questions and comments
What type of building is this?
What size is your kitchen?
What exactly do you mean by washer dryer hook up? Is there a water line for the washer and a vent for the dryer already or is that being istalled?
Also, the "labor and materials to tape and polish walls and ceiling ready to prime" at $1850 seems like complete nonsense. Taping drywall is just part of putting sheetrock up. A 5 year old could do it. And you don't polish sheetrock. Do you know what he means by polish? If he means just putting a thin layer of joint compound over it, again, I think this is just part of putting up sheetrock. And again, it is incredibly easy.
Lastly, I've gotten three estimates and none of them included a "general conditions of the maintenance of the job site" clause. Maybe some contractors on this board can say whether this is common or not. As far as I see it, the prices you listed are "contractor" prices and should already include any maintenance / supervision / acting responsibly.
I was also wondering about the "general conditions of the maintence of the job site", that is a common sense, whatever job the contractor does he is responsible for protecting the property and keeping it clean. Regarding the "polish", I guess he meant skim coat.
Well, some prices are ok and some are a little high, I would say the total cost should be 20%-30% less.
Rosig,
Sorry you are having a tough time on your first renovation. I think they are taking advantage of you just looking at the plumbing price. That seems very high. The electric is fair if it really is ten points, i wonder what he is considering a point. His price seems a little high. Demo seems fair, Flooring seems high, how big is your kitchen? Backsplash is very high unless you are doing something difficult, does it include the tiles? Overall prices seem high to me
Nintzk,
A 5 year old could not do it. It seems easy but it is not, we started a project in the Hamptons today and since someone did not tape correctly we need to cut it all out and start over, when he was finished I am sure it looked good. General conditions is normal. It includes such items as insurances and protection
I also thought that the cost was a bit high for what I plan to do. I am making what was once an eat in kitchen and then was split into a tiny kitchen and a second bedroom back into an eat in kitchen. The two rooms are showing on the plan as about 11 * 6 each, but where the kitchen is now is definitely not 11*6. The washer/dryer will go on the same line as the bathroom. I told him I'd be using subway tiles for the back-splash, ceramic tiles on the floor (I already know which tiles I want). I was surprised by the cost. Since I wasn't having anything too fancy done. The only cost he didn't include was the cabinets and appliances.
I am hoping to have a couple more contractors in once I close. Hopefully they are better and more responsive. I emailed him weeks ago and no response. I am definitely not using this guy.
Roseig,
If you want me to look at your project i would be happy too. We install Ikea all the time. Here are some of them we just completed
http://www.primerenovationsnyc.com/2011/12/ikea-is-not-just-a-four-letter-word-anymore/
You can call me at 646-436-3942 or email primerenovations@mac.com
it was hyperbole...but, i would love to know how someone taped incorrectly.
Also, from what I've been told, dryers need to be independently vented
nintzk,
In the case of the project we just started the tape at all the corners were "popping" at the corners. Every corner was cracking which we could not paper over. The most common problem is when done incorrectly you see the sheetrock seams
Primer, I'll send you a message. I am traveling now, but will be back in the U.S. next week.
Roseslg, i used Minch Construction for a similar project to yours. The owner was very professional and hands on, and like you this was my first renovation too so I was really apprehensive as to choosing a reliable contractor. I still have the owner's cell # etc so message me for the details but they have a great team and you wont be disappointed!
Never trust anyone named Alan.
nycgal123, how do you message someone on this thing?
You can't.
http://www.minchconstruction.com/
Roselg....get me here clairemcmen@aol.com
Roseslg, the owner's name is William (917) 589-6962. his email address is minch@minchconstruction.com
Goodluck!