Bathrooms and resale

I think the majority of buyers would like both in their master suite. There is nothing like taking a long soak in your own master bathroom tub. But that's not everyone as your husband proves, but in my opinion as a broker most clients would not be happy with just a large shower.

Keith Burkhardt
TBG

I think the value of a separate tub is not so that it can be used at the same time as a shower, but that it can be much less enclosed, allowing for a comforting soak with broader horizons, rather than the claustrophobia of a tub/shower combo. Of course, some separate tubs have you facing the wall anyway, so there goes that.

Thank you, Keith.

When we were looking, an item at the top of our "must-have" list was a big walk-in shower. As people who never take soaks (long or otherwise), a tub just seemed like a huge waste of space. Our 2nd bathroom has a tub, but it's only been used for.....guess what?....taking a shower.

To each his/her own, your mileage may vary.

kids dont take showers. they need tubs.

Good point, Alanhart. I like the idea, myself. Honestly as it is a loft and not the conventional master-bath situation but rather the larger of 2 or 2.5 potential bathrooms, I'm trying to figure out how valuable it is to cater to that idea of luxury. What about one bathroom where the tub is a nice, full, non-shower tub and one where the shower is a nice, big shower? Given that neither is exactly en suite (here's where turning commercial space into living space really pays off;) is it still a negative?

That's a good idea, familyguy.
A tub for bath takers (and as J.Button points out, it's important for resale to have a tub) and a nice big shower for showerers. (like Lucy. Me too.)

Since your husband prefers showering, would he mind walking over to the other bathroom from the bedroom to shower? Then you can have the tub in the bedroom area bathroom.

A "master bath" (as Keith points out) gets its degree by having both a shower and tub in it.

Caution: watching too much Million Dollar Listing can be dangerous to your wealth.

In my first condo that I purchased pre-construction I had option of a nice massive shower or soaker tub and shower combo. I have not taken a bath since I was 6, so immediately went with shower, which is way nicer to look at. People said I was an idiot after, due to resale and fact that a lot of people, mostly women apparently, enjoy taking baths. Who knew? But I love the big shower and don't miss the tub.

The one I don't get is the need for two sinks in a master.

Ottawanyc: That's the age I stopped taking baths. But toddlers and pre-school kids need a bathtub.

I think 2 sinks in a master is for the male shaves while the female does her make-up at the other sink.
I don't like anybody in the bathroom with me while I'm doing anything in there. Not even with an extra sink.

"The one I don't get is the need for two sinks in a master." This need arises from the need to remain happily married.

Hear hear! Two sinks might make some sense if they were entirely separate, in different parts of the bathroom. But within splashing distance, and with crap-encroachment (many girls are addicted collectors of the 87 face-painting samples they give out with each tin of powder) it's a formula for disaster, plain and simple. If you need two sinks, you need separate his-and-hers bathrooms.

I agree about the disused soaker tub thing, but it eventually comes in handy when you throw your back out, unless you have a supersize hot-tub on your xystus.

Check out penthouses A and E at 180E79, as originally constructed: http://www.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/dlo?obj=ldpd_YR_0501_MH_001_001&size=large

Each main bedroom has two baths, so no scheduling issues, knocks on the door, other people's junk, etc.

"Solarium" ... yesterday's euphemism for "doghouse"!

I forgot the building, but I like the floorplan that has connected his & hers bedrooms. With mistress access. I assume each had its own full bathroom, but I don't remember.

I get the two sink thing, because I end up carting my stuff over to the kids bathroom while my husband reinvents the art of shaving.

Is it better to have 2.5 baths or 2 baths with one being a shower & tub (presuming none are "en suite"). I feel like for practical purposes 2.5 is clearly better, but I sense it's not perceived as such...

familyguy is a family lady?

They're probably one of those new families, with 8 or 10 legal parents. I knew it would come to this.

Did you indicate how many bedrooms and how much space? If there's space for more than two kids you want two tubs. If there's space for two kids I think you could do OK with a larger bathroom near the master with a larger tub, and I don't think the shower needs to be separate, just the tub should be a good size, and a three-quarter bath with a shower. and as none are en-suite, unless you are talking about enough space for three or more kids the two bathrooms should be plenty.

Three bedroom apartment. Can be four, but then two of the bedrooms are small. I don't think I can squeeze in 3 baths. Could do 2.5, though.

As for the familyguy handle, it's a shared account.

If you have the ability to be a four bedroom, even if you are not building out that way now, you need at least 1 full, 1 3/4, and and half bath. If you have any plans to sell within the next ten years, or think you might have to, I'd strongly encourage two full and one half (or ideally three-quarters).

Thank you, aboutready. I will mull that over. My fear is that if I try to cram in too many baths, they will all feel cramped. I'm sort of the two-clean-pirouettes over three-sloppy-pirouettes mindset, but I get your point about the market.

another thing you can do, if it works, to have fewer baths is have bathroom that has separation between a toilet and the rest (a throne room if you will). it involves an extra door, but is a lot easier than some of the other options in terms of space.

That's an idea.

Coming from someone who never uses bathtub, it is an absolute must have for resale as every woman dreams of having a bath with bathsalts, flowers and aromatherapy candles. Whether they actually do that is a different story.

You are such a macho man.

I never had that dream,300_mercer.
It's an image planted by Calgon Bath commercials.

Most important question is "what do you (and husband) want?". If you don't need a master bath plus master shower, feel free to maximize space for yourselves. I have no data, but doubt (contra Keith) that "most" buyers want both in master, as a great many buyers don't care about a master tub at all. "Most" buyers do want a tub somewhere, however, so if your 2nd bath has one you can check off that box.

But a lot of buyers who do not have small children do not care about tubs. Depends on your overall layout: a 2,000SF loft that is very sophisticated might be set up with one true bedroom (and maybe a guest sleeping area). A full 2nd bath w/o tub can fit in fine for that buyer group.

Having both in the master is a luxury that might take budgetary room from something else you want. I would suggest you spend your dollars where they give you the most smiles, and let the resale market take care of itself down the road, even if that resulted in a no-tub layout. You cannot predict what aesthetic or design choices will shrink some future buyer pool, except that some of your choices *will*. Again, trade your dollars for your smiles, and the longer you are there before testing the market the longer you will have the benefit of some of those smiles.

And if you go for a really large shower and no master tub, you can deal with the resale issues down the line (if they arise) by offering a credit to replace the huge shower with a shower+tub. You may still shrink the buyer pool with that set-up, but you win back some of those buyers with a cash concession. You can't please everybody ....

"Coming from someone who never uses bathtub, it is an absolute must have for resale as every woman dreams of having a bath with bathsalts, flowers and aromatherapy candles."

Woman here, and I've never dreamt of having a bath with bathsalts, flowers, yadda yadda. Every time I get such an item as a "hostess gift", it sits around collecting dust, till I finally throw it out.

I concur with SMattingly above, on all points.

The op's question is "what do people want?" I assume they know what they want.

A+ for KeithB!

SMattingly, loft guy is that you? If so, i'm a fan of your blog. I take your point. I have kids so I need to have at least one tub, but maybe don't need to cram a second one into the "master." It is tough to predict a future market since it's oddly bedroom-friendly for a loft (families) but not in a particularly family friendly nabe.

But hoping I still have your attention, if this is loft guy, do you know anyone who restores steel windows?

I myself personally would try to have a bedroom wing that closes off from main space. And then a half bath so your cocktail party guests don't wake the sleepers. Or 3/4 bath if you ever expect living room overnighters and can fit it in. But you don't want your cocktail party guests stealing your Quaaludes; 99.99.99% of all guests will look in your medicine cabinet ... it's an established fact.

Don't worry, familylady.
Your Quaaludes, if you have any, are stale. They stopped making them decades ago.

If only I had any quaaludes or party guests to steal them...most of my guests are too short to reach the medicine cabinet and, I suspect, already well-supplied with ritalin.

lol,familylady!

Ritalin's a good thing too! It's those fancy new learning aids that are a terrible bore, and leave our nation's children disappointed. Pilfer a few from each child as a chicken fingers fee. It's only fair and just.

you need better-quality guests, ones supplied with adderall.

Small one bedroom. Considering doing a bathroom renovation. Keep the tub or put in a shower stall?

on topic, though, i'd think the best solution is one that makes you happy now and also doesn't alienate large groups of potential buyers. it's strange, but the tub issue is a real one when it comes to resale.

SBK2011, definitely keep the tub. Gussy it up with whatever makes it work for you -- a shiny glass entry or a curved hotel-like curtain rod. Body jets. Shampoo niche.

Even if you don't bathe, the tub has lots of uses. Washing cats. Illegal washing machine drainage. Cleaning all sorts of things. Trying to relieve back aches. Tie-dying your floor-to-ceiling drapery. Like that.

Thanks Alanhart. I was considering a stall since the demographic for a one bedroom doesn't include buyers with kids.

In NY 2012, you'd be surprised.

SBK, the demographic includes women. And for every one woman who says she has no interest in having a tub, you'll find five who disagree. Even though the vast majority rarely uses it. Go figure.

AR, I think it's like the imaginary entertaining people have in mind when they buy apts or the never-used Viking stove. Lately, I see NYC kitchens with Agas, which we had in UK when I was little but mostly bc it was a boon in a cold, damp climate when you had lacked good (or any) central heat.

You're going to laugh. I just put in a Viking, but I use it. I never would have bought an apartment based on shiny appliances, though, and a lot of people seem to.

The Aga is a beautiful piece of equipment, but it does seem to be overkill in NYC apartments. Although many would say the same about my Viking.

In our upstate house we have a separate shower and soaking tub. Frankly, it's nice, but it wouldn't influence my purchase decision in the slightest, but the real estate agent thinks it's sheer magic. people are strange.

If I were having a loft renovated, I wouldn't dream of cooking my builder some jellied eels, a good cullen skink, a nice Melton Mowbray pork pie or even Builder's fish & chips without an Aga. And a lude.

http://youtu.be/MWTy9fE48og

Agas generate a lot of heat, if memory serves. It's an oven that's always on. Great in Scotland but maybe not in NYC.

Alanhart, you're starting to sound like something from Lewis Carroll;)

He sounds like this:

Speak harshly to your little boy
And beat him if he sneezes.
He only does it to annoy
And because he knows it teases.

...so I'm flattered by your compliment.

I misquoted ...

Speak roughly to your little boy
and beat him when he sneezes
he only does it to annoy
because he knows it teases.

i've had chronic back pain and often take baths to treat it.

When I was looking to buy i was surprised at how many bathrooms didn't have tubs. For me it was an automatic deal breaker.

Yup, "Guy", that's me. But I don't know of a steel window restorer. Will ask around and post a "to Family Guy" note here if I find one, but you will probably get a good response yourself asking in a new SE thread.

THX for reading the blog. If you'd care to share some of your renovation story, email me at the address on the blog. Regardless, good luck!

Thank you! I'll be sure to send pictures. It's going to be quite a process.

"My husband finds this absurd bc it's hard to imagine a situation in which one person wants to take a bath while another is showering."

That's not the reason why you'd want to have both.

Quite often, when you're in between bathroom cleanings, you really really really NEED to take a nice long hot soak after a brutal day at work, but you really don't feel like pulling out the cleaning supplies to scrub the tub back to its pristine shine before taking your dip.

Also, many soaks involve oils and bath salts that require you to rinse off *after* the bath. Being able to step right into a shower from the bathtub saves the 10 minutes of standing there, dripping, waiting for the bathwater to drain before you rinse off in the shower.

Any issue with lending when a tub it added to a bathroom without DOB permits?