Need your insight: In June I put in an offer on a co-op on the UWS, it was accepted, I signed the contract & along with my deposit, it was sent to the Seller. In the meantime, I was working on my mortgage with a mortgage broker. He issued me a "Commitment" with standard terms & 1% origination fee. The document said "Loan Origination Fee" is due upon closing but at another place in the... [more]
Need your insight:
In June I put in an offer on a co-op on the UWS, it was accepted, I signed the contract & along with my deposit, it was sent to the Seller. In the meantime, I was working on my mortgage with a mortgage broker. He issued me a "Commitment" with standard terms & 1% origination fee. The document said "Loan Origination Fee" is due upon closing but at another place in the document said, it is due within 10 days of the date of the commitment. As a naive first-time homebuyer, I sent in the fee within 10 days; however, shortly afterwards, the Sale fell through because the Sellers wanted a delayed closing & I could not wait that long. Now the mortgage broker is saying that the "origination fee" can not be refunded because he issued me a commitment, even though he did not originate a loan. He is saying that it can be transferred to another mortgage application. However, when I found another property which was more expensive than the first but did not have stellar financials, he started putting too much pressure on me to go with the original property & accept the delayed closing terms, because according to him no bank would finance it. In the meantime, I contacted other brokers, all of whom said it was not an issue & one of my family members also offered to give me a loan at a low rate. So, while I was waiting for the due diligence to be completed & have an executed contract signed, & evaluating all financing options, I discovered that the original mortgage broker had had several complaints & disciplinary actions against him. So I told him I am still evaluating all options & may not be using him. He then went completely crazy, started sending emails in ALL CAPS, contacted my realtor & attorney asking them for a status on my purchase, both said that they did not know any concrete details. He told them they were lying, AND informed them that he had just pulled my credit report (without my consent) & saw a recent inquiry by XYZ Bank on it.
I want to know
a) Whether this conduct is appropriate?
b) Is it legal to charge an origination fee even if a loan has not been originated?
c) What are my remedies?
[less]
Response by NYC10007
over 13 years ago
Posts: 432
Member since: Nov 2009
Yikes!!!! Any RE: lawyers want to chime in here?
a) No way in hell this conduct can be considered "appropriate"
b) Probably, but he has the check so good luck getting it back
c) Lawyer...
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
>Any RE: lawyers want to chime in here?
Why? Unless a lawyer is getting paid, why would there be any interst in dealing with this hysteria. The pattern of hysteria has been increasing lately on SE, although Brooks2/str33teasier is posting less as are mimi/apt23, even if taken over by rlr698 or realestate19. Whatever happened to Julia? - she was my favorite fake poster ever.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
OK HB-Forget the lawyers. what is your opinion about all this? what is your advice?
Is it legal to charge an origination fee for a loan that was never originated? Is it legal to pull my credit report without my authorization?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by alanhart
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Forget about HB -- my opinion is that a mortgage broker has no business advising you on what home you should or shouldn't buy, beyond matters regarding the financing thereof. If a long closing time doesn't suit you, a mortgage broker should keep his opinion to himself. Everything beyond that is so over-the-top it's not even funny.
Why on earth would you use a mortgage broker anyway, rather than go directly to banks and credit unions? It's just another hand in your pocket.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
alanhart-what do i do now?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
Also when I confronted him about pulling my credit without authorization, he said that the first time I authorized him to pull my credit for the original property, it was considered a blanket authorization that allows him to pull my credit anytime he feels like, for any reason. Is that correct? More importantly, is that even legal?
However, most importantly, I never gave him a signed physical authorization even the first time around. He just asked me for my SS# & DOB over the phone. So there is no "signed" authorization. Although he has promised to send it to me first thing in the morning. We shall see what he "produces".
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by alanhart
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
First of all, if this mortgage broker works for/with a mortgage company, or is in any way affiliated with one, find out who he reports to and send an orderly letter explaining the situation and ask for a fast remedy -- the return of your money. Include copies of his inappropriate correspondence/emails. Don't forget to mention the other complaints and disciplinary actions against him.
I thought origination fees were charged by lenders, not mortgage brokers. Did you get far enough that a lender was identified? If so, definitely take it up with the management of that lender.
It's not clear what amount of money you're talking about, but if under $5K small claims court might be an option.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
It is under $5K, but it is a lot for me. I have asked to speak with his Compliance Dept. He says his company's President will not be available until 1pm tomorrow. However, I think it is a corrupt organization, as a whole. There is no way, the President would not know of this guy's shenanigans, if they are so readily available online.
The Bank is Chase. The "Commitment" came from the Mortgage Broker, who claim that the "Origination Fee" is theirs, not Chase's. Is that not correct. I will definitely send Chase a complaint.
God this is such a mess!
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by 7AEEA
over 13 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Aug 2012
The Consumer FInancial Protection Bureau (CFPB) would love to hear your complaint. Visit www.Consumerfinance.gov. Also, tell the broker you are going to take the issue up with the CFPB and the NY State Department of Banking, that may scare him into doing the right thing.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by tcurranmortgage
over 13 years ago
Posts: 52
Member since: Jul 2012
Good morning Sammy300,
First to your question about the Origination Fee: consult the loan commitment. A standard New York State Fixed Rate Commitment must include language regarding the refundability of certain fees, including the Origination Fee. Typically the Loan Commitment will state: "If you sign this commitment and you do not close you may lose some or all of the fees you have paid/will pay."
You should also check your Mortgage Broker Fee Agreeement. Again, standard language as required under NYS Regulations. The Broker's Fee Agreement must indicate a "Pre-Application Disclosure" of certain fees and the refundability of same.
Next to the Mortgage Broker's behavior: UNACCEPTABLE.
You should check his License on the NMLS website: https://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org and also with NYS Dept. of Financial Services.
Trevor Curran
NMLS #40140
Mobile: 516-582-9181
Office: 516-829-2900
Fax: 516-829-2944
PowerHouse Solutions, Inc.
185 Great Neck Rd, Suite 240
Great Neck NY 11021
Licensed Mortgage Banker – NYS Dept. of Financial Services
NMLS#3528
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by tcurranmortgage
over 13 years ago
Posts: 52
Member since: Jul 2012
Just saw some of your other comments and I wish to address them:
1. Credit reports require a SIGNED Credit Authorization under NYS Regulations. The Authorization is valid for ONE credit report pull.
2. A consumer can speak to the owner or President of any mortgage company at any time. Call the main phone number of the company and ask to speak to the President directly. If you are put through to the LO, hang up and call back.
3. Mortgage Brokers cannot issue loan commitments nor can they approve mortgage loans. ONLY Lenders can issue loan commitments/approvals.
4. All communications from a Licensed Mortgage Loan Originator must include the NMLS License number. In New York State, communications must also include complete identifying information for the company including main phone number, address, License designations and NMLS number.
Trevor Curran
NMLS #40140
Mobile: 516-582-9181
Office: 516-829-2900
Fax: 516-829-2944
PowerHouse Solutions, Inc.
185 Great Neck Rd, Suite 240
Great Neck NY 11021
Licensed Mortgage Banker – NYS Dept. of Financial Services
NMLS#3528
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
Thanks Trevor.
I was never provided a Mortgage Broker Fee Agreeement.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
Also - The form that he is referring to that gives him blanket authorization to pull my credit is called, "Borrower's Certification & Authorization". It makes no mention of pulling credit. is this even the appropriate form?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by gcondo
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1111
Member since: Feb 2009
lawyer up! threaten them and if they do not settle, take them to court and ask for damages and legal fees. could be fun.
you might be surprised what a call from a lawyer will do. could save you alot of time and aggravation.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by generalogoun
over 13 years ago
Posts: 329
Member since: Jan 2009
Find a tough lawyer and pay a few hundred dollars to get rid of the broker. My educated guess is that one good phone call will rid you of him. Then, before you completely move on, kindly blow the whistle on this guy to protect others.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by tcurranmortgage
over 13 years ago
Posts: 52
Member since: Jul 2012
Sammy,
The "Borrower's" cert you refer to is not sufficient to run the credit report. The cert you describe is used in the loan application process. But, pulling your credit report is the least egregious of this lowlife's actions.
You need to get your money refunded and then report him to the appropriate Regulatory Agency: NYS Dept. of Financial Services. You can lodge a complaint on his License page on the NMLS website I referred to earlier. You will see the link down at the bottom of the page near where it says, "Authorized to do business?" BTW, I have a feeling this guy might not have his License in order. This License is ridiculously difficult to obtain and those of us with it understand the tremendous responsibility that comes with it. When a consumer like you has a legitimate complaint it's important you contact the Regulatory Agency to let them know; that's how we will continue to clean up our industry.
Contact the President of the company to request your refund of the Origination fee.
Trevor Curran
NMLS #40140
Mobile: 516-582-9181
Office: 516-829-2900
Fax: 516-829-2944
PowerHouse Solutions, Inc.
185 Great Neck Rd, Suite 240
Great Neck NY 11021
Licensed Mortgage Banker – NYS Dept. of Financial Services
NMLS#3528
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
I just found out that the lowlife & his President are BFFs. So probably nothing going to come out of calling him. In fact, he was supposed to call me an hour ago, to discuss & never did.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
Also...he & his President are now, suddenly, "on a last minute vacation"...
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by alanhart
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
The time has long passed for you to have phone conversations anyway with anybody at that company/agency. You need a paper trail.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by NYC10007
over 13 years ago
Posts: 432
Member since: Nov 2009
sammy300, you got swindled, my friend. You're wasting time on this board right now. You're swimming with sharks. If you want your money back, you need to lawyer up. If you don't, unlikely you'll ever see a penny of that again.
This entire situation sounds shady in every possible way...sounds like unless they feel threatened you ain't seeing nada...
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
Working with a lawyer already...
His opinion is that I should get every dime back...
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
Update: Psycho Mortgage Broker's "boss"/"President" finally called me back; asked me to send in a written complaint & he will attempt to give me a "refund". I sent the email @ around 3:30pm; got an email from the Pres at 5:30pm that he had still not received my email (which had never bounced back); re-sent it & will see what happens tomorrow.
Will keep you all updated. Thanks for the advice & support everyone.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by alanhart
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
You copied your attorney on it, right? As a hint to the recipient?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
Alanhart - I copied my attorney. I also forwarded a lot of correspondence between me & my attorney about the legality of the whole mess. In fact, I asked him to provide the contact details of his attorney. At this point, they are one phone call away from a major investigation & the "President" realizes (I think) that the amount of $$ at stake, is not worth the headache/risk...
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
>You copied your attorney on it, right? As a hint to the recipient?
Scary
Copy the FBI Director too, that'll get the money back faster. I think I have his email address from the email about big award that I've won from Nigeria.
Novice
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by alanhart
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Big congrats on the big award from Nigeria!
Seasoned professional
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by yikes
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1016
Member since: Mar 2012
seems you make get some traction--i think you misunderstand alan, tho--his point is that when you email or write team ahole, you should cc to your lawyer each email/letter so team ahole can clearly see you are doing so.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by sammy300
over 13 years ago
Posts: 208
Member since: Mar 2012
Update - After an entire day of threatening Psycho Mortgage Broker & his "President", I received an email from the "President" this morning saying a check for the full amount is being FedExed to me today. I have my fingers crossed until I cash the check...
'/%3e%3c/g%3e%3c/svg%3e)
Yikes!!!! Any RE: lawyers want to chime in here?
a) No way in hell this conduct can be considered "appropriate"
b) Probably, but he has the check so good luck getting it back
c) Lawyer...
>Any RE: lawyers want to chime in here?
Why? Unless a lawyer is getting paid, why would there be any interst in dealing with this hysteria. The pattern of hysteria has been increasing lately on SE, although Brooks2/str33teasier is posting less as are mimi/apt23, even if taken over by rlr698 or realestate19. Whatever happened to Julia? - she was my favorite fake poster ever.
OK HB-Forget the lawyers. what is your opinion about all this? what is your advice?
Is it legal to charge an origination fee for a loan that was never originated? Is it legal to pull my credit report without my authorization?
Forget about HB -- my opinion is that a mortgage broker has no business advising you on what home you should or shouldn't buy, beyond matters regarding the financing thereof. If a long closing time doesn't suit you, a mortgage broker should keep his opinion to himself. Everything beyond that is so over-the-top it's not even funny.
Why on earth would you use a mortgage broker anyway, rather than go directly to banks and credit unions? It's just another hand in your pocket.
alanhart-what do i do now?
Also when I confronted him about pulling my credit without authorization, he said that the first time I authorized him to pull my credit for the original property, it was considered a blanket authorization that allows him to pull my credit anytime he feels like, for any reason. Is that correct? More importantly, is that even legal?
However, most importantly, I never gave him a signed physical authorization even the first time around. He just asked me for my SS# & DOB over the phone. So there is no "signed" authorization. Although he has promised to send it to me first thing in the morning. We shall see what he "produces".
First of all, if this mortgage broker works for/with a mortgage company, or is in any way affiliated with one, find out who he reports to and send an orderly letter explaining the situation and ask for a fast remedy -- the return of your money. Include copies of his inappropriate correspondence/emails. Don't forget to mention the other complaints and disciplinary actions against him.
I thought origination fees were charged by lenders, not mortgage brokers. Did you get far enough that a lender was identified? If so, definitely take it up with the management of that lender.
It's not clear what amount of money you're talking about, but if under $5K small claims court might be an option.
It is under $5K, but it is a lot for me. I have asked to speak with his Compliance Dept. He says his company's President will not be available until 1pm tomorrow. However, I think it is a corrupt organization, as a whole. There is no way, the President would not know of this guy's shenanigans, if they are so readily available online.
The Bank is Chase. The "Commitment" came from the Mortgage Broker, who claim that the "Origination Fee" is theirs, not Chase's. Is that not correct. I will definitely send Chase a complaint.
God this is such a mess!
The Consumer FInancial Protection Bureau (CFPB) would love to hear your complaint. Visit www.Consumerfinance.gov. Also, tell the broker you are going to take the issue up with the CFPB and the NY State Department of Banking, that may scare him into doing the right thing.
Good morning Sammy300,
First to your question about the Origination Fee: consult the loan commitment. A standard New York State Fixed Rate Commitment must include language regarding the refundability of certain fees, including the Origination Fee. Typically the Loan Commitment will state: "If you sign this commitment and you do not close you may lose some or all of the fees you have paid/will pay."
You should also check your Mortgage Broker Fee Agreeement. Again, standard language as required under NYS Regulations. The Broker's Fee Agreement must indicate a "Pre-Application Disclosure" of certain fees and the refundability of same.
Next to the Mortgage Broker's behavior: UNACCEPTABLE.
You should check his License on the NMLS website: https://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org and also with NYS Dept. of Financial Services.
Trevor Curran
NMLS #40140
Mobile: 516-582-9181
Office: 516-829-2900
Fax: 516-829-2944
PowerHouse Solutions, Inc.
185 Great Neck Rd, Suite 240
Great Neck NY 11021
Licensed Mortgage Banker – NYS Dept. of Financial Services
NMLS#3528
Just saw some of your other comments and I wish to address them:
1. Credit reports require a SIGNED Credit Authorization under NYS Regulations. The Authorization is valid for ONE credit report pull.
2. A consumer can speak to the owner or President of any mortgage company at any time. Call the main phone number of the company and ask to speak to the President directly. If you are put through to the LO, hang up and call back.
3. Mortgage Brokers cannot issue loan commitments nor can they approve mortgage loans. ONLY Lenders can issue loan commitments/approvals.
4. All communications from a Licensed Mortgage Loan Originator must include the NMLS License number. In New York State, communications must also include complete identifying information for the company including main phone number, address, License designations and NMLS number.
Trevor Curran
NMLS #40140
Mobile: 516-582-9181
Office: 516-829-2900
Fax: 516-829-2944
PowerHouse Solutions, Inc.
185 Great Neck Rd, Suite 240
Great Neck NY 11021
Licensed Mortgage Banker – NYS Dept. of Financial Services
NMLS#3528
Thanks Trevor.
I was never provided a Mortgage Broker Fee Agreeement.
Also - The form that he is referring to that gives him blanket authorization to pull my credit is called, "Borrower's Certification & Authorization". It makes no mention of pulling credit. is this even the appropriate form?
lawyer up! threaten them and if they do not settle, take them to court and ask for damages and legal fees. could be fun.
you might be surprised what a call from a lawyer will do. could save you alot of time and aggravation.
Find a tough lawyer and pay a few hundred dollars to get rid of the broker. My educated guess is that one good phone call will rid you of him. Then, before you completely move on, kindly blow the whistle on this guy to protect others.
Sammy,
The "Borrower's" cert you refer to is not sufficient to run the credit report. The cert you describe is used in the loan application process. But, pulling your credit report is the least egregious of this lowlife's actions.
You need to get your money refunded and then report him to the appropriate Regulatory Agency: NYS Dept. of Financial Services. You can lodge a complaint on his License page on the NMLS website I referred to earlier. You will see the link down at the bottom of the page near where it says, "Authorized to do business?" BTW, I have a feeling this guy might not have his License in order. This License is ridiculously difficult to obtain and those of us with it understand the tremendous responsibility that comes with it. When a consumer like you has a legitimate complaint it's important you contact the Regulatory Agency to let them know; that's how we will continue to clean up our industry.
Contact the President of the company to request your refund of the Origination fee.
Trevor Curran
NMLS #40140
Mobile: 516-582-9181
Office: 516-829-2900
Fax: 516-829-2944
PowerHouse Solutions, Inc.
185 Great Neck Rd, Suite 240
Great Neck NY 11021
Licensed Mortgage Banker – NYS Dept. of Financial Services
NMLS#3528
I just found out that the lowlife & his President are BFFs. So probably nothing going to come out of calling him. In fact, he was supposed to call me an hour ago, to discuss & never did.
Also...he & his President are now, suddenly, "on a last minute vacation"...
The time has long passed for you to have phone conversations anyway with anybody at that company/agency. You need a paper trail.
sammy300, you got swindled, my friend. You're wasting time on this board right now. You're swimming with sharks. If you want your money back, you need to lawyer up. If you don't, unlikely you'll ever see a penny of that again.
This entire situation sounds shady in every possible way...sounds like unless they feel threatened you ain't seeing nada...
Working with a lawyer already...
His opinion is that I should get every dime back...
Update: Psycho Mortgage Broker's "boss"/"President" finally called me back; asked me to send in a written complaint & he will attempt to give me a "refund". I sent the email @ around 3:30pm; got an email from the Pres at 5:30pm that he had still not received my email (which had never bounced back); re-sent it & will see what happens tomorrow.
Will keep you all updated. Thanks for the advice & support everyone.
You copied your attorney on it, right? As a hint to the recipient?
Alanhart - I copied my attorney. I also forwarded a lot of correspondence between me & my attorney about the legality of the whole mess. In fact, I asked him to provide the contact details of his attorney. At this point, they are one phone call away from a major investigation & the "President" realizes (I think) that the amount of $$ at stake, is not worth the headache/risk...
>You copied your attorney on it, right? As a hint to the recipient?
Scary
Copy the FBI Director too, that'll get the money back faster. I think I have his email address from the email about big award that I've won from Nigeria.
Novice
Big congrats on the big award from Nigeria!
Seasoned professional
seems you make get some traction--i think you misunderstand alan, tho--his point is that when you email or write team ahole, you should cc to your lawyer each email/letter so team ahole can clearly see you are doing so.
Update - After an entire day of threatening Psycho Mortgage Broker & his "President", I received an email from the "President" this morning saying a check for the full amount is being FedExed to me today. I have my fingers crossed until I cash the check...
Will keep you all updated.