Graceline Court

Still overpriced, given the cramped, utterly inelegant layouts. Some one who lives in the Renaissance across the street informed me that five times a day (beginning in the early morning) speakers from the Nation of Islam mosque next door beckon the faithful to prayer. That, together with the quite loud traffic flowing east-west and north-south does not a recipe of "grace"-ious living make.

are you sure the speakers play everyday? I heard it's only on fridays.

Graceline just went through first closing - $700 per sq. ft. Seems like a very steep price as recent closings at the Kalahari are coming in at less than $600, with nicer amenities, better location (away from the heavy mosque traffic and noise) and more than 80% of the units closed on.
Has the Sponsor started discounting the remaining units? Anybody nervous about Graceline becoming a "Zombie Condo"? I would not be surprised to see people walking away from their deposits on Graceline.

Graceline has only one elevator. That's what killed it for me. I believe they have 16 floors. One elevator to service all of them is unreasonable.

Newbie - yes, the guy in the penthouse will have to leave 15 minutes early in the am just to catch the elevator. LOL Did you wind up buying in Harlem? My son is looking and so far thinks the Kalahari is the way to go.

is the mosque actively using the loudspeakers every day and night?

BTW 16 floors but there's max 3 units on a floor with many having 2 units. and the top floors are one unit.. they're duplexes... so I don't think the elevator will be that much of a pain. It would be nice to have 2.. but then the maintenance would be higher... I think it's a decent trade off.

I went to open house on Sunday, specifically to see the penthouse, but had first to go to an apartment on 8B. I feel sorry for the people who have gone to contract, not only because of the the tacky lobby, the shabby quality of the construction, but the tiny size of the apartments, the utterly inexplicable layouts (such as that strange diagonal contraption that cuts off the minuscule living room from the even more minuscule dining room/kitchen), and yes . . . that embarrassingly tiny elevator.

i just don't get how a building with a part floating above a dilapidated moss could be approved by the city. who's idea was to do that?

don't especially like it -- even worse quality than Soha 118 -- this according to the Broker that is selling both.

My friend was going to close but had some financial reverses and can't afford the payments anymore. He said the Sales Agent was terrible to deal with, the building took forever to complete. They kept promising move in dates that kept slipping. They finally finished in late Dec. and had first closing on Dec. 30 - 2 days before they would have had to offer right of rescission. He told me he plans on filing a claim with the AG's office because of the delays, poor quality, financial condition of the Sponsor. He met another person when he was last at Graceline who was equally disgusted with the place. He said he would not be surprised if a good number walk away from their contracts.

the sales agent is terrible indeed
but consistent with the building

Maraman, just saw your earlier comment. No, I did not buy in Harlem. Was looking at it seriously this summer but decided to wait to see how the debt crisis panned out. Glad I did.

I'm looking almost exclusively below Houston now, focusing on FiDi, Chinatown, and the nasty fringes of Tribeca. Trolling for deals.

I am following both markets myself as I see them with the best upside once the RE markets recover. My son is actually buying in the Kalahari. My daughter is looking in FiDi, hence my interest. Like you, trying to keep my ear to the ground to see what is happening in the market place.

Anyone in contract on a unit at graceline that is actually going to close?

If you're on here let us know... I'm considering buying in this bldg but I'm concerned about only 1 unit being closed so far.

dude, the elevator. there's only one elevator.

Yeah one elevator sucks.. but it's not a dealbreaker IMO. I love that the subway is on the corner... express 2,3. That's a big deal to me.

I'm just wondering if ANYONE is going to close on a unit soon? It would help me make a decision, because all I see above is negative stuff about people walking away from their contracts??

Wow, this bldg is not getting good reviews.

Only 3 units have closed, according to ACRIS. I know the elevator is small, but they should be able to move in more than one person a day. You should look at Kalahari if you like the area, or wait for prices at Graceline to drop into the $300 psf range. Good Luck!

Seems like more units have closed now... I signed up for the insider stuff on this site... it's definitely showing more than 3 closed, but I wonder if it's correct. There isn't any "detail" like the name of the buyer etc other than on 1 unit.

Greghart - 4 units have closed in ACRIS. You can use the Insider Feature in SE to go right to the ACRIS page. There is also 1 more unit listed on SE as sold, plus I believe the PH (listed as not available) was sold as I saw lights on over the weekend when I walked by.
If you are going to go forward, I would hit them hard on a discount of say 25 - 30% because my gut tells me a lot of folks have walked away from their contracts and the building will be < 50% sold. Not sure what size you are looking for, but the Kalahari down the block is discounting their prices - they just closed a sale a couple of weeks ago almost 25% off list.

What happens when the ONE elevator breaksdown? Also, they have one for rent now, also through Corcoran, which makes me think more will follow...

Jason - yes I saw that too - and very overpriced. I think that unit should go for $1,500, if you compare to rentals at the Kalahari. I am wondering if that is the Sponsor renting - they have sold 2 apts of that size, so could be an investor.

Also, what happens when someone moves in or out? With one elevator....?

"even worse quality than Soha 118"

lol, that's pretty bad. to me it's a monstrosity, as ugly as a building as it can get. didn't go inside though.

Jason - their have been only 9 or 10 closings, so probably not an issue right now. LOL
I saw that the lobby has been completed, but did not see a doorman. I think he is only part time anyway, unless the Sponsor has cut out the doorman to save maintenance charges they would otherwise have to pay.

Soha 118 is fine inside, and IMO not ugly at all outside, especially when compared to what Harlem looked like even a decade ago. I guess some people would prefer abondoned buldings and overgrown empty lots.

"Soha 118 is fine inside, and IMO not ugly at all outside, especially when compared to what Harlem looked like even a decade ago. I guess some people would prefer abondoned buldings and overgrown empty lots."

at their current pricing the quality is not acceptable. but if all units were at the lottery price ie: 230k for 2 bedrooms, the quality would be ok for the price.

the monstrosity for me is graceline, not soha118.

this is a mess. looks like 5 or so walked away or couldn't get financing recently, were relisted quickly at a discount, likely because the developer needs to sell ASAP. Check out the sales and listing history. If I was one of the buyers who had already closed on one of those B-line apartments I might be feeling awfully testy right now.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/106-west-116-street-manhattan

Not surprising. They actually had 19 in contract for the longest time, so far only 11 have closed (and I think one of those was only signed in Dec. 2008). So at least 8 or 9 have walked or could not get financing. I don't think the discounts are enough to move the units. You can buy at Kalahari for cheaper and it is a much nicer building, 90% sold out.

Does anyone know what's happened with Graceline that the 8 for sale and 6 in contract (as of yesterday) are suddenly in the sold category, and the website for the building is gone?

I am going to guess forclosed, and the lender will convert to rentals.

Wow - If that's the case, what happens to those in contract? (and those that were already sold?).

A true disaster.

I heard that a few were highly discounted and sold.I think a couple of 2 bedrooms went for something in the 550k range.

The building website is back, with what looks like the same prices and availability as before. But SE still shows all the previously unsold apartments as 'no longer available' (except for the rental). ??!

Actually, I happen to know 1 person who bought, closed and moved in. I understand that no maintenance is being charged. The developer is carrying it fully, and there will be no doorman but a security guard. Apparently the developer has cleared the cost and is doing this with no known expiry date.
Interesting.......
Any explanations?

As security guard!? You're kidding, right? Worse than the lack of a doorman, the need for a security guard seems kind of tacky. What's next, metal detectors?

joedavis - when you say 'cleared the cost' do you mean he's already covered the cost of the building with ~10 apartments already sold?

nyc_obs
I am just repeating what I was told. Don't have details. Let us say the building cost is $300-350 psf and land cost was about $1 million.
How much has he spent given the total sf and what did the apts that sold sell for?
is it possible to figure this out?
still dont understand why he would carry the maintenance indefinitely

Yes, that's very odd. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Is the person you know there happy with their purchase?

Just looked at the website again, and it looks like they've just switched from Corcoran to Halstead. Guess there was something to all the negative coverage their sales agents were getting. Some listings are posted on Halstead's website now. So probably the listings will come back online on SE soon.

There was an article that talked about the cantilever adding 11,900 sq feet to what would have been 38,000 sq ft. So total of 49,900 sq ft. If it's $300 per, that's almost $15,000,000 without any land costs. SE says 10 recorded sales at an average of 776K, which means $7,760,000 in sales to date. But maybe $300 is too high as the cost to build?

yes this does not look like he has cleared the cost. The person I know seems happy with the purchase/views etc, but not so thrilled with the location/area.
$300 is not high for an elevator building with marketing and design costs included - it may be low.
So if they have sold 10000 sf at this point then they have 32000 sq ft to go with about 7000 in public spaces
or put another way if they had sold 40000 sf at 700 psf they would have cleared 28 million with a project cost of 15 million +. This seems consistent with what I would expect. 15 million may actually be a bit on the low side.

So, it does seem that this project has to be in trouble, and paying the maintenance for 10 apts for a year is about 170k which is chump change in the overall game. May be they need to do this to keep the people in there and get some more contracts closed.

The graceline web site has flipped back to corcoran (Vie Wilson) for the sales agent, but only halstead has some properties listed, with a different sales agent (Leo Munoz) and they list open houses today and tomorrow. I wonder what's going on behind the scenes on this one? The for sale listings on Halstead include 3 that were in the previous for sale column, and 1 that was taken off market 5/1 and one that was never listed before (11C) but is marked down 45K from the last listing for same floor plan (10C). Expect it will shake out in the next few days. Doesn't seem like a very stable situation at the moment.

So I thought this website was to be informative not people's personal blogs about buildings. Especially when they don't have their facts straight.

I am an owner in this bldg and would like to offer some answers to your questions as well as get some of the facts straight.

Yes - the sponsor has agreed to waive all maintenance until further notice. We will be given 30 days notice as to when maintenance $ will be due. I personally can deal without having a doorman and pocketing my maintenance. It's paid for my furniture and other things that I was going to hold off on buying for a bit.

The Doorman WILL be in place once the owners take on the maintenance costs... the security guard is there only on weekends because of the open house. The sales office would prefer not having potential buyers waiting outside and talking into an intercom. The guard works only on the weekends during open house hours. We will not be installing metal detectors or anything like that as one nice person thought in a post above, that must be your ignorance about the neighborhood showing through. Good job.

The building is far from sold out. Lowen Development is a large developer, if we were with a smaller company then it could be a cause for concern. We're in a recession... everything is uncertain to an extent.

You can't compare occupancy details of Graceline to a bldg like the Kalahari which is a multi income development. All the units at Graceline are market rate.. the Kalahari has many units that went via a lottery system. So of course those would be occupied right away.

The existence of one elevator is so far not an issue at all. The elevator is fast and works fine. I can see how some people would think it would be a problem once the building is completely occupied but that is something all of us knew when making a purchase. I'm willing to wait a few more minutes rather than paying more maintenance to maintain and insure 2 elevators.

The gym and back garden as well as roof deck are completed and in the process of being furnished. The gym is equipped with a dry steam sauna which is great. As well the gym has large windows that overlook the garden.

My unit is great and I am very pleased with it. It's nice to look out your window and not facing a brick wall or even a building across the street. The noise from the busy intersection is not an issue, and if you really want quiet you can close your windows and the noise is pretty much a non event.

As to the mosque and the call to prayer.. yes the call to prayer does happen but it's only once a week and it's in the middle of the day on fridays when most people are at work and not sitting at home on their computers with the windows open blogging online about buildings they have no idea about on Streeteasy.

As to closings, I can assure you that the number of closings are not right on the SE website.... there are two units owner occupied that don't show up for some reason. The rental unit is an owner who is choosing to try and rent out their purchased unit. It's not a sponsor unit.

As to the sales office.. I'm not completely sure what's going on but there may be a transition to another brokerage (corcoran to Halstead). I don't see why this caused such a stir on this site... it's normal for an owner to switch marketing companies, it's sometimes smart in order to get new agents working on selling units etc.

The neighborhood is fine, the subway proximity is fantastic. I work down on Liberty street in the financial district and I am at work in 25-30 mins door to door.

If you have any other questions please let me know.. I'll check this now and then.

Thanks

I know the neighborhood quite well and had and had been very interested in the Graceline and the Kalahari before the slowdown in the economy. I will most likely be moving to Harlem when I do buy. I use the NYSC club on 5th and 115th regularly and am frequently in the neighborhood both for pleasure and work ... guess you're the one making assumptions -- in case you didn't get it, the dig about detectors was meant to be funny. Maybe you should relax a little.

Nothing wrong with the neighborhood. It's the building. Badly constructed, way overpriced, not thought out, etc, etc. Just a big mistake.

Gracelineowner -- thx very much for the detailed explanation of the situation. You are suggesting that Lowen has deep pockets and will keep paying the maintenance for the 10 or so units. That is nice. However, how do you feel about the almost certain 20-40% depreciation of your investment at this point. The reason that this building is largely unsold is because the asking prices are out of sync with reality.
They could have done better if they had not had a rude realtor representing them to begin with, but at this point with the flood of competing properties coming on the market I don't think they are in a good position. Windows on 124 and Soha North are much better buildings with similar commuting advantages, and the prices are going to match up with Graceline on a psf basis.
I guess Kalahari is a fairer comparison being on apprx the same block, but they are dealing, they are greener and they are more filled up so maintenance can be paid.

I am glad that you are a happy camper since it could be depressing to be in your situation. Wishing you all the best

Actually, I am wondering if there was any truth to what I was told by a broker (not representing the Graceline) -- that two 2-bedroom, 2-bath apts went in the 500Ks. If that's really true, seems like a very good deal to me.

CB123 - SE shows (or showed, before all the listings were taken off yesterday) three 2-bedrooms with asking prices in the 550-560K range but these are the ones near street level with no view and presumably noisy. Still, may be a good deal - if a bit risky in such an undersold building. Looks like a low floor 2-bdrm sold for 595 much earlier in the year, but that one said south exposure, so it would be quieter.

Thanks, nyc. Even with the drawbacks, seems like a pretty good deal. I've seen ONE-bedrooms in East Harlem (not as established) listed in the mid 500s. I may kick myself later, but I am reluctant to pull the trigger at this point -especially in an undersold new development.

Best bet is to wait. Harlem's inventory will continue to grow. Fifth on the Park needs to play out. SoHa 118 still has many unsold apts, Kalahari has many unsold. Windows on 123 is empty. And more and more. Prices are just beginning to slide in Harlem. They've got a long long way down yet.

Yes, that's my feeling too. The 2 bedrooms above had their prices cut by 7-15% on May 1, but I still think there is a ways to go - Only one (the higher floor with the 15% cut) went into contract after that. With all the inventory coming online you can probably soon find something nicer for the same price. And if interest rates do continue to go up, prices will probably go down further regardless. I'd rather be paying more tax- deductible interest and not be underwater on the sales price should I need to move.

We'll see, B-boy. I have seen a small drop in prices since 2007 (been looking for a while and had a contract on a place in EH in the end of 2007. There was an opportunity to pull out with no loss last year, so I took it).

If psychology/confidence continues to pick up around the country with respect to the economy, my concern is that it will lead to "panic buying" in Manhattan (this is not necessarily rational, but rational thinking often doesn't apply w/NYC RE) -and I miss out on the few really good deals. I feel like that happened a little bit just before Memorial Day. That said, I am trying to hold off buying.

I thought SoHa was sold out. I never followed that one b/c too expensive for me. Feels like list prices are still high in Harlem-probably a good idea to start comparing list to actual selling prices to get a more realistic picture and watch what happens with inventory as B-boy says..

CB123 -- there have been so few sales in harlem in the last several months that it is not easy to see what the selling trend is -- other than very few sales

I agree that asking prices are not down

panic buying or selling : not apparent this will happen

You said there were some you lost out on prior to Memorial day -- any details?
v interesting upsurge at that time but I think we are back to few sales now

The pick-up before MD I was referring to was just based on internet searches on apts I'd been watching and based on what brokers I've met said (I think HONEST brokers-- and no, I don't want to buy a bridge). There were a few that went into contract in the Yorkville area (East 90s) at low prices. I was also told that those two 2 -bedrooms in Graceline went really quickly after listed so low. I think there were some others, but can't think of them now...it was just a little bit, but more than I'd expected with all the gloom and doom. Now, I just see the same old inventory (in my very modest price range) so it's disappointing overall.

JD, I was just saying that I fear I WILL miss out if buying picks up rapidly (I have a very limited budget).

CB, I would be very, very surprised if buying picks up rapidly. . .especially in Harlem. As JD said, there has been so little activity in Harlem sales the past couple of quarters, it's tough to gauge what's happening. But just that lack of activity tells you something. There will be no panic buying with circumstances what they are these days.

B-boy, My logical mind agrees. Then I feel that aggravating feeling in my stomach when I look at the stock market for the past couple of months. I realize that we're essentially flat on the year and still down since a year ago, but I missed this recent run-up (and experts did not seem to predict it). I'd feel worse if that happened with my home (It could be the difference between living in a one bed or a studio). Still, I do agree that things probably won't spike up suddenly (RE is harder to move than stocks), but there's always a possibility. That's what makes a market, I guess - people with different viewpoints. I'm still on the sidelines [I think :)...]. I drive myself crazy going back and forth!!!

Do you have any thoughts about East Harlem? This one building, Conrad, seems to have been marked down a little in recent months.

Soha is sold out, but re-sales are already listed.

There are 11 SoHa listings on StreetEasy. All resales? The building just opened a year ago?

jason
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/46726-condo-313-west-119th-street-central-harlem-new-york
isn't this part of soha?
I am not sure that they sold out their high end units
vie wilson still has several listed
I had considered the one I link above and since I have had it saved on SE there have been a couple of price changes but no other action
Suspsect there are others......
Incidentally, when Graceline came up, she told us it was a "quality lower than Soha". Given that the unit we looked at in Soha and another in Brownstone already had floors that were bubbling up and crooked switches etc, and an odd column in the middle of the living room, we did not bother with Graceline

only 45 units appear to have closed. 8M shows no signs of ever closing, and is still listed by the Corcoran sales team.

ok -- the one i linked to is the brownstone lane one. sorry, but
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/contact/7527-vie-wilson-svp
shows quite a few open still and I dont think they are resales

Well I am no expert. The point is the same though, lots of inventory in harlem now and in the future.

True that, Jason

just saw unit 12A - i happen to like the finishes and think the view is beyond terrific. However, that does in no way justify the $883+/sf price tag. Broker seemed to think that $788/sf, $495k, would be accepted as an offer - still terribly high priced for living ON 116th in the midst of little Senegal.

Whats wrong with African immigrants?

Soha is definitely not sold out.

Graceline put prices back up to what they were asking in 2007! There are only 3 listed on SE (6 on the Halstead site) but the 3 bedroom was raised 25% from it's last listed price (back to original asking price in 2007), and the 2 bedroom was raised 13% which takes it ABOVE it's 2007 price!

Anyone have any idea what they are smoking over there? That doesn't seem to make it worth even going to see if they are so out of touch with reality.

New broker.

Yes, but where's the logic in dropping your old broker who wasn't selling enough, presumably in part because they were unrealistic about the prices they were asking, and then having the new broker make them substantially more unrealistic? Is the new broker such an amazing sales person that they'll get 25% over what they couldn't get a few weeks ago?

o

m

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I looked at a few units at Graceline and the 2bdrms look under 1000 sq ft. The master bedroom of 2bdrm and even a 3bdrm could not fit a king size bed in it although the broker insisted they could. The three bedrooms are prety cramped as well and that cantaliever in the living is an eye sore IMO. I live in the Kalahari next door and there is not much inventory as bronxboy suggested. Kalahari is over 90% sold out and the Penthouses are even moving now, someone moved into one of them 2 weeks ago. I wish the neighborhood had a bit more retail but I do like the fishmarket, dunkin donuts, the fine fare and the delicous mexican place on 113th and lennox (lolitas). I am very happy with my purchase and the neighborhood beat my expectations. We do need a pizza place though.

Gracelineowner I do not think Lowen is a HUGE developer. When I think HUGE I think of a publicly traded company like Toll brothers. This, and correct me if I am wrong is Lowen's first full market rate project in NYC. If they completed the project on time I doubt the building would be in such a predicament. The delays in construction (Winter of 2007 and Spring of 2008 was the original timeline) and not the lottery of Kalahari is why they are unoccupied. If they met the original deadline I am sure most owners would move in since people's circumstances and banks lending would not yet be affected by the financial crisis.

How many people live in the building ? I see 2 or 3 lights on at night.

Good luck with the apt I hope the bldg sells out because another full condo can only help the neighborhood.

MrMet - good points about Graceline - Vie Wilson was terrible, which is proab. why she got fired. I saw that apt too with the diagonal beam going through the middle of the living room. Quite a distraction to the aesthetics of the apt.
Graceline Owner - there have been 11 closings on ACRIS, the last being the penthouse on May 1. SE shows 10; for some reason they did not pick up 2B. If Mr Met sees only 2 to 3 lights on, could the others be investors who were hoping to flip for a profit?

Hey... yeah there are definitely 11 closings and I think there are two more coming very soon.. the elevator is padded again for a move in... so it might be happening now.

I have met and can confirm that 9 of the units are owner occupied... one of them is closed and being put for rental by an owner as you can see on SE. The newest closing I haven't met yet.. but prob will shortly.

I ran into the new broker this weekend and he told me that there are 5 signed contracts recently through Halstead... so we'll see if there are any new closings in the next few weeks.

Mrmet.. I wasn't saying that lowen can't fail... but they have done several projects.. one is across from the Kalahari actually... it's the steel grey bldg I believe. So I'm hoping that they're large enough to be ok for a while... as far as I can see right now the bldg looks like we're in good shape.
I think you misunderstood what I meant when I brought up the lottery apts in the Kalahari... I meant that if Graceline had lottery apartments they would most definitely be occupied, lottery apts go fast as far as I know... so comparing the overall occupancy rate of Kalahari to Graceline is not an apples to apples comparison.. that's all. I would compare the # of market rate units in Kalahari to Graceline and see. I have friends who live in Kalahari and it's a great bldg.. completely different offering than what Graceline gives... we're smaller and not even near the scale of what Kalahari offers.

I really do like my bldg... as much as some people have criticized it.. it's a nice place to live... the owners are really nice... we all see each other all the time and know each other more than just a "hello" as you pass in the hallway. Yes the bldg could be more occupied but I'm enjoying the several hundred dollars I am saving in monthly maintenance right now.

The sponsor also just completed landscaping of the back garden so they are still putting money into the bldg and getting it closer to full completion.

We'll see what Halstead can do for the bldg.. I think they will be good.

One elevator, though, is STILL insane.

glad to see Vie Wilson was fired. She was indeed terrible. Are the new realtors better?
I think this place would sell if they lowered prices 20%=30% and became consistent with the market
as it stands UWS prices are comparable and lower psf in many cases

If, as the new agent claims, there are 5 signed contracts recently through Halstead, how come only 3 show up on their website, and what happened to the 6 that were already in contract before Halstead took over? Several of those were 2007 signings that looked like they had walked away. So unless the broker is failing to add the info to their website, and it's not making it to SE, there's something a little fishy here. Also the 3 they show as in contract they don't give apartment numbers for so that they can't be compared to the prior list, but they look very similar to ones that were already in contract.

It seems to me they are trying to play a shell game. Add to that raising prices, then lowering them but not to as low as they were etc., while trying to make it hard to track on SE - it's not clear this broker is much of an improvement, unless you like shell games from your broker.

Yes I know building across the street it was not all market rate though I think all subsidized. I bring it up because it was a successful market rate construction then their "war-chest" might have more reserves. Again good luck Gracelineowner. I just think it is ridiculous to raise the prices on these units after their was a mass exodus. But what do I know there could be people out there that this strategy may appeal too Im a numbers guy not a salesman.

So, has the new broker brought any life to this building? I looked at some apartments in April and went back recently and did not see too much progress (except garden off "gym" area, the completed lobby and the bike room. The prices are still high ($715/sq ft--are they crazy!) and the cc are HIGH! I would think something in the $521/sq ft is more in line with recent sales and the down turn.

Doesn't really look like much going on. There are 3 listed in contract on the website, but I think those are 3 smaller ones that went into contract before the new broker. Seems like they used the broker switch to clear out all the 2007-2008 in contract listings that weren't going to close. They've raised the supposed asking price on the recent in contract ones compared with the last asking that street easy listed, which seems a bit dishonest. But time will tell what they actually close at (assuming they do). Agree prices are still crazy high - may help explain why they haven't had a closing since April 22nd, whereas the Kalahari nearby seems to close more than one a week, with recent closings apparently showing significant price cuts (up to 25%).

I just walked past the Graceline Court a half hour or so ago. At best, I saw lights on in 3 apartments. This building is in deep trouble.

saw the same thing at 111 central park north, but thought that maybe the rest wanted some privacy by not turning their lights on. you could literally see what those other 3 home owners were doing.

Until these Harlem developments considerably lower their prices or accept lowball bids, they will remain unsold. That is the reality today.

This is a question on a related note. Is there a good way to determine how many units are actually in contract rather than just asking the realtor, who won't give you the truth anyways? Is it customary for not all of the units in a building to be listed on SE?

Seriously Cherrywood. You only saw three lights on and you felt the need to come on here and state the the building is in trouble.

Maybe you should pony up the monthly fee to use the insider feature and then you can avoid making dumb assumptions. If you are an insider and you don't trust the info then go to the city website and check the records.

mmarquez.. I think all the units are listed for sale... with 11 that have been fully closed. These 11 are not in contract.. they are not w offers... 11 have closed. I'm not sure on the # of ones in contract. Sorry dude.

I am thinking of renting an apartment in this building, does anyone know if there are other owners who are considering renting out their units, or if the building is planning to rent out any unsold units? I just saw one so far, but it might already be rented. I am looking to move at the end of September. Does anyone have any thoughts on what the rent should be? Also, any idea on when the doorman will be there? I think they did a nice job on the lobby and with some of the finishing touches (love that they have washing machines), although the cut outs around the apartment make me wonder where I would put furniture.

"(love that they have washing machines), although the cut outs around the apartment make me wonder where I would put furniture"

are you serious? why would you want to rent there? try k&r, they rent without brokers fees around that area (mostly rent stabilized).

http://gonofee.com/no-fee-apartments/agentType/View/PropertyID/33.aspx

a 2bd/2bth with balcony, walking closet for $2,350. not too bad!

"Stainless steel appliances, including dishwasher stove, and a microwave. Building has a live in super, common backyard and roof terrace. Apartment also includes laundry, storage and indoor parking also available"

I don't really need a two bedroom, although the extra space would be nice. I'm not really interested in spending an extra $500+ for it though. The Graceline has outdoor space as well (shared, but on the same floor, although the view is not great), and I like that the laundry is actually in the apartment, not just in the building. The workout room is a nice plus as well. I was looking to stay near 116th and Lenox or slightly west because I have friends on the block and like the proximity to the subway (it is right above the 2/3). I guess I would look near the B/C also, but preferably something on 116th between lenox and 8th. Thanks for the tip about k&r, i'll check them out.

Try the Kalahari. They have rentals as well and much better amenities than Graceline. It is half a block away from Graceline.

welcome purple! that one that i showed you is rent stabilized (which might play in your favor in case of higher inflation, as the rent hikes are regulated, this in case you find sth you would like to rent for several years to come).

it goes to show that there are a lot of rent stab available (for middle income) without the need to get into a lottery.

Thanks mrmet, I am going to look at the Kalahari tonight. It seems much more expensive though.

I saw the Kalahari. It is a beautiful building. It is also more expensive though. Anyone have any thoughts about if the rental price difference is justified? Or when the graceline will have a doorman?

I don't think Kalahari is more expensive to rent (or buy) on the price per sq foot basis. Of the 3 they have listed on SE for rent, two are lower prices psf than graceline, with only one higher, but that's a pent house apt. So it seems like it's just that they have bigger and/or better apartments open at the moment. Those also have washer/dryers in apartments and much more extensive other amenities (incl. doorman). When graceline gets a doorman the rent will probably go up, cause at the moments the rents asked are not enough to cover mortgage let alone maintenance on the apartments (which is not being charged yet - see above).

From what I've heard no doorman at graceline until they sell more apartments and they start paying maintenance. At the current rate of closings that could be a long time. Perhaps Gracelineunitowner will come back online with an update on that.

What is the difference in the ammenities other than the doorman? They both have washer/dryer, outdoor space, and a gym. I think the Kalahari had a party room, playroom, and music room, but i don't think i would use any of those anyway.

24/7 concierge (assume that's a little fancier than a doorman), on site parking with on site zip-cars (fabulous if you ever have a use for car in NYC), green building which includes expected lower utilities (31% less energy use predicted), I think more expensive (thus reliable) appliances, less chemicals used in construction (low voc) so healthier, air filtration system, bigger better fitness room, extensive outdoor area, wired for very fast internet, wireless in public spaces. Just all in all a pretty classy building as opposed to cheap construction (which is a claim for graceline above) made to look expensive.

Graceline doorman will only be part-time.

Updates on closings are avail on SE if you pay for the insider feature... or become an expert at searching ACRIS. There have been 2 AUG closings for those who can not see the insider info FYI. Also one unit has closed but is still not showing up on SE as closed.

Graceline = boutique bldg w all market rate sales and small # of units.
Kahalari = large complex, multi zoned for Housing Authority/lottery sales along with market rate sales.

Amenities are and should be always in scale to size of bldg. I think the amenities offered at both bldgs are adequate.

Doorman hours will be set by board as is common in any bldg.
Date of the doorman to start is TBD.