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can tenant withhold rent due to rodent problems?

Started by superwoman
about 13 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: Oct 2011
Discussion about
Any help or feedback on this would be appreciated. Can a tenant in a multi family rental refuse to pay rent due to rodent, cockroaches or bed bugs in the apartment citing that he cannot have "peaceful enjoyment" of the apartment or based on sanitary or health concerns? Even though the landlord has provided extermination services on a monthly basis. What do most landlords do under these circumstances and is there a language that most landlords use in the lease agreement to preempt these situations? Thanks.
Response by huntersburg
about 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010

First, ask yourself this question: if you withhold rent and then the landlord commences action against you in housing court, are you prepared for the headache, whether or not the court would ultimate rule in your favor? If 'no', then rethink the question. Also, you might want to narrow down your problem a bit - having all 3? The bedbug problem can be pointed at you. And, are you superwoman, or "he"?

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Response by superwoman
about 13 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: Oct 2011

Thanks Huntersburg, I am asking from the perspective of the landlord.

I did not say all three problems at the same time (ie rodents, roaches, and bedbugs), it can be any one of the these three commonly cited pest problems in NY that the tenant maybe using as an excuse to withhold rent. BTW, it is not too far fetched that all 3 problems may exist simultaneously in certain households.

In any case, that's besides the point. What i would like to know is what are some of the things that a landlord can do to protect herself from situations where tenants refuse to pay rent because of pest problems even though the landlord has sent in the exterminators every month already?

Say if the case ends up in court, what else can the landlord do or could have done in order for the court to rule in her favor?

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Response by jason10006
about 13 years ago
Posts: 5257
Member since: Jan 2009

Not until you call 311 and get an inspector to come out and give you something in writing. Even then it's iffy, but since such 311 reports are listed online LLs are quicker to act. But vermin alone won't do it in housing court, sorry.

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Response by huntersburg
about 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010

Roaches, mice, bedbugs and Jason the angry retard. This is indeed a bad situation.

Landlord should commence action 30 days after first non-payment of rent. Don't play games, don't negotiate, don't even communicate other than to continue to demand the rent. Continue to send the exterminator as usual - certainly if sending more frequently helps, do that and get rid of the underlying Jason. If the tenant is messy, next time your exterminator is there, take photos of the tenant being messy.

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Response by Truth
about 13 years ago
Posts: 5641
Member since: Dec 2009

There is language usually listed in rental leases concerning keeping the premises clean and in good sanitary condition. I don't have my lease with me now, but it also says something to the effect that the building
hallways should be kept clear of personal items and garbage bags.

My landlord also has his apartments inspected by an exterminator in advance of move-ins and video-taped to show the condition of the apartment.

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Response by NYCMatt
about 13 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009

Why would you even bother staying in such a place?

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Response by jason10006
about 13 years ago
Posts: 5257
Member since: Jan 2009

superwoman, I was a tenant in this situation, and consulted two res RE lawyers who rep tenants, and they both said it was iffy in housing court even with the 311 report in writing. If its AWFUL sometimes tenants win, sometimes not. However, your building and exact unit WILL be listed on the city housing website as a building with "vermin" problems if that step is taken.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/home/home.shtml

This is a giant black eye, and will make the unit much harder to rent. People know about this website and check it before renting. Complaints stay there for years. Even for fancy, high-end buildings. You CANNOT get them taken down. So its in your interest to aggressively fix the problem.

But from a legal POV, tenant can't really get out without winning in housing court, which as I said is iffy.

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Response by Truth
about 13 years ago
Posts: 5641
Member since: Dec 2009

Wait-- superwoman hasn't actually purchased an investment property yet.

Aren't you asking the question as part of your trying to get ready for being a landlord, owning a multi-family
property to rent out, superwoman?

I know Superman is faster than a speeding bullet but you haven't purchased anything yet, correct?

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Response by superwoman
about 13 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: Oct 2011

Hello Truth ! it's always good to see you around :) No I haven't purchased yet, am doing more research before I pull the trigger, am preparing myself for some of the worst scenarios.... (this is what I do for fun, find things to worry about haha)

Jason, thanks for the advice, very helpful. Did your landlord do anything to rectify the problem or did he simply ignore the problem entirely? I don't suppose LL would ignore the problem on purpose; it's just not in their best interest to ignore the problem. One of my biggest concerns is that sometimes certain infestations (especially bedbugs) can't really be completely eradicated even if you send in a team of exterminators every month, then it may get very challenging for the LL because it's not like the LL is trying to ignore the problem.

NYCMatt, no, I am not staying in a place infested with bugs, I am asking a hypothetical question from the perspective of the landlord.

Does anyone know if it is legal (according to NYS laws) to include a clause in the lease agreement saying that if the landlord has attempted to eradicate the infestation 3 times and the problem still persists, then either party can terminate the lease agreement with no recourse against each other? This way I don't have to worry about having to fight the tenant in court which could drag on forever.

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Response by Truth
about 13 years ago
Posts: 5641
Member since: Dec 2009

superwoman:
Yes, I know, I get why you were asking.

Best to have an exterminator come in to inspect while you are video-taping.

The apartment will be empty and there isn't any furniture to host the bedbugs.

As far as I know, you can legally include any reasonable clause in the rental lease.
"The problem still persists" is not something you want to include.
(Was it ever a problem, at all?)

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Response by jason10006
about 13 years ago
Posts: 5257
Member since: Jan 2009

My LL let us move out and keep the deposit with zero clean up, becuse in addition to all the bugs and mice, my BR flooded 2 feet deep when it rained. Ground floor apt. So it was unlivable and they did not even try to keep me.

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Response by Truth
about 13 years ago
Posts: 5641
Member since: Dec 2009

superwoman:
Just keep in mind that jason the bullshitter recently posted a comment about how he never saw a roach in either one of the two Manhattan apartments he's lived in.
Maybe he's referring to the "bugs" Bunny he saw.

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