Layout Question

1. Adding a bedroom at expense of a bathroom when there are still 3 baths could be a reasonable tradeoff. Without seeing a floor plan it is hard to say. Generally a bedroom is more valuable than a bathroom.
2. Again, without a layout it is hard to say. Most people would keep all bedrooms together and the public rooms together. Separating just the master from the others is also desirable to many people. But two and two is sort of weird.
3. Many past threads on here is you search around about lots of strong feelings on open kitchens. While very popular now, that can change. Consensus is do what you like for now, but if opening it up, do it in a way that a future purchaser could change it back without too much trouble to a separate kitchen/dining room.

Kylewest's comments are right on target. Just to add one thought on question #2: buyers of post-war apartments seem more amenable to split bedrooms. I'm not sure why that would be the case; it might be a combination of pre-war buyers' traditionalism (reflected in their preference for older buildings) and the prevalence of funky combination apartments in the post-war market.

So, if you're combining two pre-war apartments, you might do well to create a distinct BR wing if possible. I would lean that way in a post-war combo too, but I think it matters less.

So much depends on how you intend to use the space -- a 2/2 split works well if you Intend MBR/home office on one side, kids' bedrooms on another - not so well if you have multiple children and a live-in nanny.

If you want to post alternate floorplans somewhere and provide a link, perhaps everyone in the SE cafe can provide more specific comments.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Full disclosure, i'm single and don't have kids.

But it seems to me that splitting the bedrooms works in all situations. Parents want privacy, so they keep the 1 bed near the master as a den or guest bedroom, and move the kids to the other side of the apt. Alternatively, parents have a new baby and want to be close by for getting up in the middle of the night, so they keep the nursery next door to the master. However, keeping ALL FOUR bedrooms together seems like a disaster. Maybe parents don't want to share a wall with the nanny (likely). Or a number of kids together might keep each other up (if one kid refuses to go to sleep and is throwing a tantrum, but the other is ready for bed).

Again, i'm not a parent, but the split makes the most sense to me.

You must not be a parent. I don't know of any mothers of young children who don't like to be that far away from the kids at night.

As far as privacy, there are a million times and places to fccuk, believe it or not. It doesn't have to be in the bedroom at night.

The ONE time where splitting the bedrooms makes sense is with a guest room.

Here's my idea of a nearly optimal four-bedroom layout:
http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/19/4001719.gif

The four bedrooms are all in the south wing, but the master suite is a distinct sub-wing with some privacy. In a perfect world, I guess the room in the northwest corner would have better bathroom access for occasional use as a guest room.

Keep in mind that if you convert a bathroom into a den you create a potential wet over dry issue for yourself--if there are plumbing leaks or your upstairs neighbor's toilet overflows your den will get hit. It's just something to keep in mind (unless, of course, you're on the top floor :-)

Re: splitting up bedrooms--I personally prefer there to be a bedroom 'wing' that is separate from the public spaces, rather than having the living areas flanked by bedrooms. But a lot also depends on the layout. For example, I would not want a situation where kids would have to tromp through the living areas to get to the bathroom, which is often the case in apartments with split bedrooms.

Re: open kitchen vs closed EIK, I'd probably choose the EIK. We have an open kitchen and it works well for us and in our space but I have always really preferred the more traditional closed kitchen. So if you have a choice you may want to buck the trends and keep things more classic.

That's a nice layout.

The 10x15 bedroom is PERFECT for a guest room -- nice separation from the adjoining bedroom via a bathroom. And VERY good bathroom separation for the master bedroom. This way, wild sex can be going on in both rooms and the kids wouldn't hear a thing!

Open kitchens are fine for people who never cook and never entertain, and like to be able to sit in their living rooms and admire their spotless and gleaming never-used professional-grade appliances.

West81st: nice layout! I want that.

Not to be a nay-sayer West 81st and I generally like your ideal, and I'm not saying that I would say no to that apartment if someone gave it to me, but it seems to me that it lacks one essential--a powder room. I suppose guests use the hall bath but assuming that's a kids bathroom its a little awkward. Plus if there are kids supposed to be sleeping during an adult party, people going back and forth past their bedroom all right could be a nuisance (especially if the doors need to be kept open to let the cat/dog in, keep the boogie man out etc.) I know I am being picky but for the multi-millions this no doubt costs I, pickiness is somewhat appropriate.

Native: Agreed. The maid's bath might be an option, but a powder room would be better. Sadly, they are pretty rare in 1913 buildings.

Hypothetically, you could split the laundry room in half and make a powder room closer to the LR. It shouldn't be too difficult given there's a black water line on the adjoining wall.

I absolutely would not skimp on the laundry room. It needs to be bigger, if anything. No one uses maids' rooms for MAIDS anymore, so turn that whole thing into a really nice guest "lounge" with bath.

Weird how these prewar buildings don't have powder rooms for visitors. Did people in 1913 just hold it in?

No, they used the hall bath or one of the en-suite baths. Back then a single family bath wasn't at all unusual, and one for the master BR and another for all the other BRs was luxurious.

Part of that's to do with evolving ventilation requirements. Before 1929, a room with a toilet had to have either an outside window, or a window onto a large airshaft, or a large dedicated vent to the roof. Any of those would take up lots of rentable floor space or hallway space and outside wall exposure.

In 1929, code changed so that you could have inside baths with compact mechanical ventilation to roof, as long as at least one other toilet had a window.

Later on, that kind of ventilation was permitted for any bath, so postwar buildings mostly have baths in the core of the building and rarely facing out.

A different code applied to no-kitchen apartment hotels. Mechanical ventilation for those was permitted in the 1920s. That was one of the reasons for their popularity with builders then, along with greater lot coverage.

Thanks NWT. That explains a lot.

FWIW, the laundry room in that floor plan basically occupies the footprint of the original butler's pantry. I don't know whether you could put a toilet there. jsw363 is right that there's a waste line right behind the dryer, in the adjacent en-suite bath; on the other hand, the Board might say "close, but no cigar".