First Time Renter- Broker fees?

Can't wait to hear from C0lumbiaC0unty/Jim Hores on this subject.

If you didnt sign anything with the broker just apply through the Mngt company. Without something signed like a registration card or fee agreement it would be very difficult for them to win in court. Judges go by what's in black and white. Not he said she said.

Don't sign anything with the broker. If you do, you will be bound to it and any (possibly astronomical) fees. If you are already good with the management, you are free to go through them directly. The broker may try to scare you every this way and that, but if you are smart, don't sign anything from them.

Chels,

"I found out about a great apartment through a broker I contacted..."
Then you should pay the broker a fee, only right since he/she found you the apt.

"This broker has not mentioned anything about charging us a fee, and I have not signed anything."
Broker should have given you a form to sign, so it's broker's fault for not doing so.

So what now?
Do what your heart tells you, it's usually right.

Good luck

Poor broker (correctly called agent) is new and/or too trusting.

Since the broker showed you the apt, he is entitled to collect a fee. Tell him 1 month is what you are willing to pay an no more than that...

He did do his job by finding you the apartment you like remember this...

Put yourself in his shoes he trusted you and didn't have you sign a fee form, whats fair is fair, would you like to not get paid for working?

OP, you may still be liable for a fee, even w/o having signed something. the law stipulates the agent only need be the procuring cause in a transaction. not only that, but if the management company has a good relationship with the brokerage community, they often will not allow a deal to move ahead w/o you being represented by the same agent you went to the building with.

are you really trying to convince us that you are so naive as to not have asked about commissions prior?

I disagree. If the facts are correct as he stated he called about apartment "A" and the broker told him about apartment "B". He never said anything about a fee, which given that Chels has never rented before is a big disclosure that the broker should be making so that he understands all the facts. I know people who use a broker to look for certain apartments and will then contact no fee listings on their own. Without ever renting and understanding the facts and not being provided any details, he is under zero obligation to pay someone for an agreement he never entered. Furthermore said broker would probably do more for him/herself by giving all facts to the renter even if it means losing a fee as they would then get referrals. I know this is the way I have given broker referrals.

Any broker that then pressures for money is the reason that they are given a bad name. It would be as if I went out and gave advice to someone one their taxes and it appeared I was just given a free consultation and then send them a $5,000 invoice and telling them you should have known it was not for free. Why is it that brokers feel that they should be held to a different standard then any other professional?

I am not attempting to bash as I truly believe that if the broker was up front and a renter signed a piece of paper stating they understood that under certain conditions where the landlord was not paying their fee that the renter would be responsible, I am on the brokers side 100%. The facts as given do not appear to follow this line though.

If is no fee, then it is no fee. The landlord can pay the broker

No fee for the renter. Landlord can pay if it wants

I believe we all understand no fee apartment means that if you go directly you pay no fee. The question raised is whether a person who is not informed that this apartment they were showing would cause a fee to be paid directly by the renter to the broker is obligated to pay. I have met plenty of people who do not understand how the whole rental market works here and when you have to pay and when you do not.

Why is it Jim that you do not want to discuss what your obligation as a broker is. Why is it always a "buyer beware" attitude. How about we start living in a land where a broker does not feel they are owed and spends the time consulting with a person. It happens in every other profession and plenty of times you lose many hours trying to land a client. For some reason a broker feels that if they spend 5 minutes with someone and show them a no fee apartment without telling them, that now they are due $5000. I wish my life was that easy. And before you start telling me about all the time you spend with a potential renter or buyer that does not pan out, that is part of the job.

Legally, yes, you probably don't need to pay the broker. Ethically and morally, you are kind of a jack ass for even thinking of not paying them. You are definitely taking advantage of the broker.

I never singed anything with the CPA who does my taxes. So since I have no contract, can I just not pay him this year? I never signed anything saying that I would tip the waiters who wait on me, or the cab drivers who take me places, or the barber who cuts my hair. Why should I tip them?

...And as anyone on these boards knows, I am not a broker fan!

ikev
about 2 hours ago
Posts: 418
Member since: Jun 2010
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I believe we all understand no fee apartment means that if you go directly you pay no fee. The question raised is whether a person who is not informed that this apartment they were showing would cause a fee to be paid directly by the renter to the broker is obligated to pay. I have met plenty of people who do not understand how the whole rental market works here and when you have to pay and when you do not.

Why is it Jim that you do not want to discuss what your obligation as a broker is. Why is it always a "buyer beware" attitude. How about we start living in a land where a broker does not feel they are owed and spends the time consulting with a person. It happens in every other profession and plenty of times you lose many hours trying to land a client. For some reason a broker feels that if they spend 5 minutes with someone and show them a no fee apartment without telling them, that now they are due $5000. I wish my life was that easy. And before you start telling me about all the time you spend with a potential renter or buyer that does not pan out, that is part of the job.

Fuckface, my obligation as a broker is to rent the apartments for my client (the owner) or to help a client (renter) find one.

It is Ok for the broker to get paid but not from the renter. It is no fee so the landlord should do the right thing and pay.

Jason to answer your question, everything I do is signed prior to me doing the work. You are actually under zero obligation to tip anyone, it is your choice. So I really do not see how it relates to a broker. But if you want to bring it to this level then when someone wants their taxes done they understand there is a cost and it is discussed.

So here it is once again, if I am a first time renter in New York and do not understand all the various issues with renting here, meaning fee or no fee, fee to the broker regardless,etc, should it not be explained to me so I understand? Why is it seem that everyone seems to think it is okay to take advantage of someone and tell them they have to pay something that they should not?

And Jim for some reason I feel you are not the best broker for me or many others.

I'd preemptively report the agent, knowing that he will do something illegal by the time you're done. That's because he's a real estate agent, and so can't help it, but that's not your problem, and the prisons need filling before they can build some more.

Never pay a rental fee, directly or indirectly.

Mikev
about 1 hour ago
Posts: 419
Member since: Jun 2010
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Jason to answer your question, everything I do is signed prior to me doing the work. You are actually under zero obligation to tip anyone, it is your choice. So I really do not see how it relates to a broker. But if you want to bring it to this level then when someone wants their taxes done they understand there is a cost and it is discussed.

So here it is once again, if I am a first time renter in New York and do not understand all the various issues with renting here, meaning fee or no fee, fee to the broker regardless,etc, should it not be explained to me so I understand? Why is it seem that everyone seems to think it is okay to take advantage of someone and tell them they have to pay something that they should not?

And Jim for some reason I feel you are not the best broker for me or many others

well, we don't know each other. i think you'd find me highly professional and competent.

alanhart
15 minutes ago
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Member since: Feb 2007
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I'd preemptively report the agent, knowing that he will do something illegal by the time you're done. That's because he's a real estate agent, and so can't help it, but that's not your problem, and the prisons need filling before they can build some more.

Never pay a rental fee, directly or indirectly.

are you saying all real estate agents are dishonest?

>So here it is once again, if I am a first time renter in New York and do not understand all the various issues with renting here, meaning fee or no fee, fee to the broker regardless,etc, should it not be explained to me so I understand?

Agree

taking advantage of a broker, that's a good one.

let's consider what the broker did... someone called them about an apartment and the broker suggested another "no fee" apartment. This "broker" is "entitled" to a 15% fee, or one month, or whatever for the um what 2 minutes of work? If I was the broker (yuk), I would be happy with referrals from the goodwill.

Sorry, but I would not feel bad about not paying that "Fee", and the whole "morally right" thing... if we were talking about anything other than brokers and real estate fees, I might be on board with that.

"let's consider what the broker did... someone called them about an apartment and the broker suggested another "no fee" apartment. This "broker" is "entitled" to a 15% fee, or one month, or whatever for the um what 2 minutes of work?"

You are reading things in TOP that are not actually written. its unclear weather or not the broker merely "suggested" TOP contact a no-fee building on his own, or in fact took TOP to said building and showed him the place as part of the general tour of available apartments.

booger frank seems to have the right idea, let the landlord pay. Why isn't the broker trying to squeeze the landlord?

Chels,
Most importantly, don't listen to a thing jimmyboy says. Mikev and bgrfrank are spot on.

I think what to do now, is ask your question from a legal standpoint, or moral standpoint (keep in mind, many agents don't deal with "morals").

Jim, the OP came to this board for advice. They stated " This would be my first time renting in New York (and in general), so there is a lot I am learning."

So why get snippy & cussy? How else can they become less "naive"but to ask questions and gain experience?

Sonya_D
14 minutes ago
Posts: 103
Member since: Jan 2013
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Chels,
Most importantly, don't listen to a thing jimmyboy says. Mikev and bgrfrank are spot on.

I think what to do now, is ask your question from a legal standpoint, or moral standpoint (keep in mind, many agents don't deal with "morals").

Have you ever been apart of litigation about a commission? Read the below cunt, and tell me how it is sound advice to ignore any of what i wrote:
OP, you may still be liable for a fee, even w/o having signed something. the law stipulates the agent only need be the procuring cause in a transaction. not only that, but if the management company has a good relationship with the brokerage community, they often will not allow a deal to move ahead w/o you being represented by the same agent you went to the building with.

Oh, trust me, Jimmyboy, I, like all others here, know your words are about as good as Madoff's investments (some of us just know this a little bit better than others.

If you want to test your theory, show me some no fee apartments, have me not sign anything, then take me to court. LOL!

Other than that, your foul language indicates that you are upset. Don't be -- I'm sure your Bushwick studio will rent soon. (yeah, right).

>OP, you may still be liable for a fee, even w/o having signed something. the law stipulates the agent only need be the procuring cause in a transaction

So you are saying that the law states that someone can unknowingly become liable to pay a fee based on the actions of a third party?

Where is this magic law?

Sonya_D
8 minutes ago
Posts: 104
Member since: Jan 2013
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Oh, trust me, Jimmyboy, I, like all others here, know your words are about as good as Madoff's investments (some of us just know this a little bit better than others.

If you want to test your theory, show me some no fee apartments, have me not sign anything, then take me to court. LOL!

Other than that, your foul language indicates that you are upset. Don't be -- I'm sure your Bushwick studio will rent soon. (yeah, right).

what is it you do for money twat? other than turn tricks?

Lol, you are the height of maturity, jimmyboy! Stay classy!

Oh no! Jim Hores just accused Sonya of being his wife.

Ha!

In most real estate markets it is customary for landlords to pay any broker fee. While that is not the case in NYC, a broker who shows an apartment to a first-time, out-of-town renter has a responsibility to both inform the renter of his expected fee and have that renter sign a contract laying out the terms under which they are due a fee.

If the broker failed in these responsibilities, they won't and shouldn't get paid. The rental has no moral, much less legal obligation to the broker.

But Goldie, there is a magic law that applies.