Open houses 4/27

Yawn - there isn't much of interest in our price range on the UWS. I might stop by 186 RSD, since the building seems to be one big open house tomorrow from about 11 to 2.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/open_house_planner/search/nyc?criteria=open_house%3A20080427%7Cdescription%3A%22186+riverside%22

West81st, you were missed last week.

This is the first week in a few that the NY Times search is working properly. Within my search parameters ($100k-700k, 1br+, most below 14th minus BPC and FiDi plus Chelsea) it returned 84 properties. Wow. I think that's about 40-50% more than I was getting a few weeks ago. I may be otherwise occupied Sunday. I'm curious to read what others report.

Hi, Tenemental. Thanks for the tip about the Times.

I was out of town last Sunday, and I probably won't have much time for scouting tomorrow either, though I'd make time if something really caught my eye. There's plenty of quantity out there, but the quality in our neck of the woods among new listings looks pretty week. Some interesting properties have been on the market for a while; I've seen them, and now I'm just sitting back and watching the prices fall.

Two of the listings at 186 RSD are for 8A and 9A, which are also being offered as a combination. They were first offered that way last October for $3.3MM. Now it's $2.55MM. If it keeps coming down $750K every six months, it might be in our price range in another year. Not that I have the guts to tackle a duplexing project. Anyone know what that sort of renovation might cost?

Oops - "week" should be "weak". Better cut down on the vino while posting.

How do you interpret the fact that there 're so few open houses on the UWS? I'm going to see one BY OWNER 2-bd. tomorrow.

West81st - a friend just finished combining his small penthouse with the apartment below. Besides the cost, the number of permits, city- and building-related was flabbergasting. The staircase alone took 6 months of paperwork. He went through 3 or 4 contractors. Basically he said that a vertical combination is much much much harder than horizontal. Cost: if I remember correctly, about $340000.

Thank you, Stakan. Pretty amazing. In the real world, for that kind of money, you can build two decent houses. In Manhattan, it buys you hole in the floor and a staircase. I suppose most people who do it go in with their eyes open. Still...

As for the volume of open houses, I think there are over a hundred for 2-3 BR units on the Upper West Side. It just seems that most of them are pretty stale.

West81st - these peoplle age not going to sell, ever. Plus, they almost divorced while waiting for the project to be done. They had to rent a tiny 1-bedroom for the whole period. Did I say that it took almost 2 years? If I had to, I'd just buy 1 for us and the other for some compliant long-distance relative. And not combine.

I'm going to see some places tomorrow above W 100, closer to Central Park. A lot of that area was recently landmarked. Very family-friendly, at least looks like it, and I've never seen so many beautiful trees on the street in Manhattan. Everything looks/feels nicer with that many gorgeous trees. Could be just me.

West81st I will be interested in your take on 186 RSD. I saw 8A and 9A 2 weeks ago and wrote it up on the OH thread as well. Also, would like your opinion on the new 2BR on the 5th floor facing the park. I can't make it out today, but am curious about whether the 2nd BR faces a wall.

West81st, I'm convinced you could start your own blog and charge advertisers for eye balls. Maybe streeteasy or digs would be interested in a neighborhood real estate blog as part of their site? You could cover UWS, tenemental EV, etc. Would be cool stuff.

Hi, gang. I wound up hitting 473 WEA, 110 RSD, 137 RSD, 186 RSD (8A and 9A, not the one on 5 - sorry, drg), 817 WEA and 254 W.82nd. All were quick visits on my way to other appointments, so I didn't take a lot of notes. I'll post a report tonight.

JuiceMan: That's an interesting concept. I did something similar on a completely different subject for about four years. (The hit counts were pretty good, but somebody else got most of the money.) In any case, thanks very mich for the kind words.

OK, here's the first set of reports:

186 Riverside Drive #8A, 9A or both
$1,349,000/$1,200,000/$2,548,000 Co-op 2-4 beds / 2-4 baths
Listed with Nan Shipley at Rand Realty NY
Traffic: Light to moderate.

8A and 9A are essentially identical 4.5 apartments. Each has two bedrooms, two baths, and no place to feed company. 8A has been reconfigured slightly to expand the eating nook in the kitchen. If you’ve seen the listing for 8A, you may have noticed that the living room shade is lowered halfway. That’s because the apartment has one of the ugliest views imaginable: directly onto the massive mechanicals of the adjacent building. Of the two units, 9A is easily the better buy. It’s $149K cheaper, and there’s nothing particularly special about the kitchen & bath renovation that supposedly makes 8A more valuable. Also, the owners of 9A seem to be very motivated, and I won’t be surprised if they are among the first to blink in the current market standoff. So if you’re a 2BR buyer in the $1.1M range, this could be an opportunity.

I dropped by because Rand has touted the pair as a possible duplex since October - initially at $3.3M, now at $2.55M. It didn’t take long to determine that the idea is mostly marketing. There may have been some general discussion with the Board, but no approvals, permits or engineering work; and Rand’s proposed duplex floorplan would knock out all the features that distinguish 8A from raw space. Even if you could buy both apartments for under $2MM, it seems like a lot of work and expense for a decent-sized duplex in which the family floor faces a bunch of heavy machinery.

110 Riverside Drive #11D
$3,795,000 Co-op 2 beds 2 baths 2,300 ft²
Listed with Deanna Kory at Corcoran
Traffic: Moderate (The mortgage guy from Wells Fargo brought breakfast, and nobody had eaten it.)

This is a beautiful apartment, opulently renovated in one of my favorite buildings. The kitchen is dazzling, and so is the south facing living/dining area; the curve of Riverside Drive gives the D line terrific views down the river. So what’s not to like? Well, if you have kids, you might resent the “children not welcome” aura that pervades the place. Sure enough, the owners are childless, and they have converted a classic UWS family home into a monument to their own impeccably adult tastes. It will sell, of course, to a couple or small family that likes to entertain in style. I just wonder about the price. 12D sold a year ago for $3.2MM; so the question becomes whether the beautiful renovation of 11D is worth $600K to a prospective buyer (maybe more, considering the market). Rich people with refined taste often want to realize their own design vision, not inherit someone else’s. If you like the little Tuscan-style den and only need two bedrooms (and have a stack of cash), maybe you buy the place and leave it as-is. But once you start tinkering with the layout - as Corcoran seems to expect a buyer to do - you’re throwing away some very high-end work. Time will tell; for now, I’m thinking 3.4, not 3.8, but Deanna Kory is pretty good at what she does.

137 Riverside Drive #11DE
Sun, Apr 27 (12:00 - 2:00)
$3,895,000 Co-op 4 beds 3.5 baths 2,300 ft²
Listed with Amy Singer at Corcoran
Traffic: light

Here’s an interesting counterpoint to the unit at 110 RSD: same size, same floor, similar price and similar location. Where the other is four-square and perfect, however, this slice of William Randolph Hearst’s Clarendon palace is jaunty, rambling - almost labyrinthine - and romantic. (The fireplace in the master bedroom exudes sex appeal.) If you have money, kids and a weakness for Parisian style, this one is worth exploring, and do mean exploring. It’s the kind of apartment where you turn a corner and find an unexpected room or nook. Truly one of a kind, for better or worse.

Unfortunately, only one room – the living room – looks out on anything worth looking at. The layout makes the most of what’s available, with the kitchen and dining room set up to share the living’s room’s great view of the river. As for the price, I have no idea. The Hearst floors were chopped up and reassembled so haphazardly over the years that it’s hard to analyze comps, and the broker – who is a real New York real estate stereotype – isn’t familiar to me, so I don’t know her pricing strategy or how accurate she usually is. At least the Clarendon roof seems pretty stable these days.

I only had time to try and see one today, 216 East 7th #1. I had mentioned this place recently in a discussion on Stupid Broker Tricks. It's been listed and relisted 13 times since November 07 with two price chops, some text and picture changes and a switch to studio and back to 1br. It's a first floor floor-through with what looks like a recent kitchen and bath. It boasts a 480 sf private decked garden, and at $699k ask (down from $750k) and a supposed 550 sf interior (no floor plan) with a sleep loft between Aves B & C, this place is clearly counting on the outdoor space. When will brokers/sellers learn that just because further-east Alphabet City is no longer a crack-and-heroin-ridden nightmare, it's still a haul from the trains? There were two kids rolling what I think were blunts right out front, and I walked past one of the tattoo-faced squatter punks in the park, so I did get some Old East Village vibe today.

Any way, I say "tried to" and "looks like," because with 20 mins left in the open house, I rang the buzzer three times (twice outer, once inner) and no one answered. I've been to a bunch of open houses in the past two weeks and most have been really quiet. In one case the broker was packed up and ready to go when I showed up with plenty of time left. This place has been on the market for over 5 months; maybe they just went home early.

JuiceMan, I'm also a big fan of West81st's open house reports and analysis (and thank you). It would be key to be able to link such a blog to the StreetEasy comps and listings to give it depth and substance not available in a typical article.

StreetEasy, Urban Digs, I think JuiceMan may be on to something.

Hi, tenemental. Sorry the broker on East 7th stood you up. Here are the rest of my notes from the UWS:

817 West End Avenue #11B
$1,995,000 Condo 3 beds 2 baths
Listed with Susan Mansell at Warburg
Traffic: Very light.

This classic seven is an attempt at an insider flip. The owner purchased the unit for just $968K last October, according to Streeteasy. Now he’s hoping to double his money in a much tougher market environment than the one in which he bought, without putting a dime into the place. Although the pictures look fairly nice, this apartment is a wreck. So is the building. They both seem to have decent bones. The façade is impressive and I especially like the marble lobby, which I had plenty of time to inspect because the passenger elevator was out of service and the call lights in the freight were broken too. (The operator had to keep yelling, “What floor?” to anyone who pushed a button. The agent assured me that the elevators will be replaced soon.)

The layout of the apartment is pretty good, though I’m not sure there’s room for much of a master bath. There’s plenty of space for a really nice kitchen, and let’s just say the new owner will not be constrained by a desire to preserve any of the existing fixtures. Gut renovation will make this a nice apartment. The new owner will still be gambling on the building as a whole turning the corner. The agent told me the place is well over half owner-occupied. That might be true, considering the reasonable insider prices, but it doesn’t guarantee that there’s enough money left in the building to fulfill its potential. Several work permits are posted in the lobby, including one for assorted electrical work. That’s a modest positive sign, I guess.

250 West 82nd Street #72
$3,495,000 Co-op 4 beds 3 baths
Listed with Scott Moore at BHS
Traffic: Light-moderate; I was the last visitor. I think there were about two pages’ worth of names.

This early Emery Roth effort is a cute seven-floor building that looks almost whimsical compared to the structures that defined the Emery Roth brand. The “2” line has a lot going for it - most notably handsome public spaces and lots of bedrooms. The turn-of-the-century detail has been preserved very well. I’m surprised the BHS website doesn’t show off the exposed-beam living room; the corner room shown in the listing is actually the library, which is big and bright enough to be used as the living room. The master bedroom is large and handsome; so is the comfortable eat-in kitchen.

The three smaller bedrooms are laid out along the long corridor that leads from the entrance at the western end of the apartment to the public rooms on the Broadway side. The floorplan is simple and maybe a bit antiquated. Personally, I like it because the wide central galleries and winding wings of later pre-war designs often strike me as an ostentatious waste of space. Others may find the layout a little claustrophobic. The apartment is basically in move-in condition, though a bit of paint and polish might bring out more of the sparkle

#72 is a new listing, and I won’t venture a guess about where it might ultimately trade. #33, with basically a mirror-image layout but less light, has been on the market for six months and has dropped three times, from $3.9M to $2.75M. Scott Moore mentioned that these units seldom become available and I believe him, based on the Streeteasy sales history for the building; so pricing them must be a challenge for the brokers. Maybe 250-254 (a.k.a. 2273 Broadway) is too funky to compete with the big boys around the corner on West End, where space like this might very well fetch $3.5M. I guess the bank on the ground floor IS a little tacky, though all that Broadway retail space helps keep the maintenance reasonable.

473 West End Avenue #7A
$3,095,000 Co-op 3 beds 2.5 baths
Listed with Renee Goff at Elliman

Traffic: light, but I was there quite early.

7A is a straightforward classic seven on the corner of 83rd and West End. The family wing has nice privacy, and the kids’ rooms share a Jack 'n' Jill bathroom. Some buyers might tinker with the layout of the kitchen/maid’s wing, others might leave it alone. The Formica countertops are a bit downscale for a $3MM apartment. That’s easy enough to fix. Generally, the apartment and the building seem to be in good shape.

It looks like Renee Goff is having a tough time. She lives at 473 and has made some nice sales there; but she couldn’t sell 5A (same apartment, not quite as bright) despite eleven months, endless open houses and three price cuts totaling $650K. Unfortunately for Renee, Steven Kopstein of JC DeNiro sold 10A (which was nicely renovated) for $3.6MM last summer. That sale seems to have set owners’ expectations for the A line, and Renee’s listings have been chasing the market down ever since. I think this one gets chopped in the next few days.

West81st - Thanks for your OH report once again. Your reviews help all of us looking on the UWS, and your sense of humor doesn't hurt either. Good luck in your search for the perfect apt. I looked at 305 W. 72 which didn't have much traffic. Also went to 310 W. 72 which was packed with people.

Thanks West81! I really look forward to reading your reports each week. Although I am not looking on the UWS, you report gives me a lot of clues as to what I should be considering in my search. They should pay you for this!

captain -- Interested in what you thought about 310 west 72nd. Is it priced well?
West81 -- There is a rental in that building on a lower floor, not renovated. In this market, would you counsel renting #3D and waiting a year and then buying??

srb162 - I don't know which way the market will move tomorrow, let alone in the next year. For what it's worth, here's what I would do in your shoes: call Larry Zarr, who has both listings, and challenge him to convince you that it makes sense to put $300K+ down, plus closing costs, and saddle yourself with a $900K mortgage and $1758/month in maintenance when you could rent essentially the same space for $4495/month. Hear him out. He may not care that much which one you take, because he gets paid either way, though he'd probably prefer to make the sale. Listen carefully for hints that with the rental option dropping, the sales listing is likely to come down too. Ultimately, it comes down to how much you prefer the brighter, renovated apartment and how much of a poker game you want to play. Clearly, if your gut says the market is about to tumble, renting is a no-brainer. Just ask stevejhx. He's the resident expert on rent-vs-buy math.

One additional note on 250 W.82nd: Apartment 72 is directly under a patch of the roof that is undergoing a lot of work. I think the Board is putting in a roof deck, which should be great. A prospective buyer should probably have a good engineer look at the plans to make sure the design is sound. Any mistakes are going to leak right into that apartment.

tenemental, what are you talking about regarding 267 E 7th #1? I saw that unit - it's listed for 775K, has not been on the market since it was bought in 2005, and doesn't have a sleep loft! If you're going to bad mouth listings, at least get it right.

Confused: Different building. Check the address: 216, not 267.

You're right. Sorry. I had seen the one at 267 and it sounded similar.

hmmm, Juice - interesting thought. Im always open to ideas.

Having a OH reporting section certainy sounds interesting..problem with getting someone to cover one hood, is consistency. Seems better to have an open forum. Email me if you have further ideas. Would love to talk this out with you guys to make a better tool for everyone. Certainly there is potential here.

Discussions about properties may be better on a public board b.c digs is a realtor and they are not supposed to publicly discuss other agent's properties. Manhattan loft guy was shutdown for doing that after an agent complained. Even if 'digs isn't the one writing it, having it on his site might be critized by other agents.

I hit three OHs downtown. West81st sets a high bar with her reports, so mine will suffer in comparison, but at least it's a different part of town.

Pearline Bldg (Tribeca).
3BR/3bth
3,000 sq ft
$4.8mm

Well, I was on my way to the OH next door on Laight and Washington (see below), and I walked right by it, and thought the OH was in the Pearline Bldg. This is a new dev, across from the Sugar Bldg, and has oblique views of the Hudson. It's a one unit per floor bldg where the elev opens directly into the unit. I was the only visitor there, and the sense I got from the broker was that they were quite eager. I think that half the units remain unsold (and the bldg itself is still unfinished). Also, the developer is building a similar bldg around the corner, which is in an earlier construction stage (shell), so perhaps they are looking for buyers. This was well out of my price range, but was interesting in providing one anecdotal datapoint that there was price resistance at $1600 psf.

76 Laight Street (Tribeca)
3BR/2bth
2400 sq ft
$3.45mm

This was the one I intended to go to before mistakenly walking into the Pearline bldg across the street. This too was a single apt per floor bldg, where you step out of the elev into the apt. This apt was absolutely done, with high end appliances and fixtures in the kitchen and two baths. Similarly situated as the Pearline, the apt had south and west exposures, with oblique Hudson views. The cons, for me, were that the two secondary BRs were quite small, and I'm not sure they'd fit in anything much bigger than single beds. Pricewise, the brokers said they told the sellers to price it aggressively in this market, but the price is still over $1400 psf. However, another unit sold last summer for $2.175 mm (listed for $1.99 mm), and needed a gut renovation. This worked out to $848 psf. Not sure that the unit I saw justifies a $1.275 mm ($600 psf) premium in one year for the work having been done.

151-A Charles Street (WV)
2BR/1bth
1200 sq ft
$1.95 mm

This was sort of funky. The draw for me was the outdoor garden and balcony. The unit itself is a triplex with the two BRs and shared bath one floor up from the main level, the LR and kitchen on the main level, and a den/studio down one level. Kitchen/baths were dated. The living space was too small and vertical for me, and the outdoor space too small and unremarkable to overcome the shortcomings of the interior space. It also overlooks a rather undistinguished block off the Westside hwy, and across the street is an empty warehouse of some sort. The broker said it had been sold and would be developed into townhouses and a condo bldg. Also interesting, was that the broker seemed very bullish, saying that prices were holding, and that units were only staying on the mkt longer, and that in NYC prices only went up (Spunky, was that you?). I was a little surprised by her attitude since I was the only visitor logged in, and I came at the end of the OH. I would be surprised if this fetches anywhere close to the $1625 psf they are asking.

Nicely done, KISS. Though West81st is indeed the undisputed open house report champ, and I like to have fun and add some color to mine, I think we'd all agree that all OH anecdotes are welcome, and that no one should hesitate because they only have the time or inclination for a brief post.

I know many open houses have been slow lately, but are there really so few posters on StreetEasy with something to report? Just wanted to throw that out there in case anyone's holding back.

srb162 - Re your question on 310 W. 72 St. - I liked the floorplan and what they did with the kitchen. High floor, dining space, ready to move in, good closet space,very clean, charming building. The location is great, lots of transportation, close to the walking and biking path (they have a big bike room)and Fairway. I looked at another in this line on a much lower floor sometime ago (sold for $1,050,000 per streeteasy), this one is much nicer. I looked at the laundry room, which is one of the nicest I've seen.
As to renting the lower floor unit vs. buying, I can't comment on what is the right thing to do financially, and I agree with other posts that this is advice you should get from someone you trust, parents, lawyer, friends, etc. Personally, I'd rather cut back on vacations, clothes, etc. and have my own home than renting. Call me stupid. Maybe if I was lucky enough to have a rent stabalized 2-3 bedroom apt. for $2,000 a month I'd change my mind.

We only visited Worldwide Plaza (a condo, built 1988) between 49th and 50th and 8th and 9th avenues.
One address is 393 West 49 - seven stories, the other address is 350 West 50, 38 stories.

Apartment 2G, 1000 sq. ft, SW corner 2/2, $999,000, combined tax and maintenance about $1700 a month.
Surprisingly quiet, nice street view (because of lower buildings across the street and the avenue) , good condition, layout we like with kitchen open to living/dining, but the LR/DR together a little tight at 19' long. This apartment is very close to the dors that lead to the outside common area in the center of the complex. Very beautiful, very quiet - a big plus for this busy neighborhood. C/E subway at the 8th Avenue end of the block. 11' ceilings! (Owner paid $563,000 in 2003.)

Apartment 6G, same layout, $1,095,000 nicer view that just about clears the builings across both 49th street and 9th avenue. Floors and walls in less nice condition than 2G - 6G has been rented and is empty now. (Owner paid $1,050,000 in 2006.)

Apartment 6R, same layout at the NW end ofthe building. Views not as nice. $1,125,000.

(These apartments were all built with oak herring bone and marble baths, both of which seem to have held up well.)

Moved over to the tower:

14E - West view - a bit of river, a bit of cruise ship, bigger and nicer but the kitchen is walled off. $1,390,000 and broker owned, but I had to find this out myself. Even in Florida, very much the wild, wild west of real estate, they tell you if it's an agent/owner.) Owner paid about 623,000.

Penthouse 3D - we were late, but the agent very nicley took us up. Just great! A dining room, a half bath, NE views (not as good as west views.) $1,490,000 down form the original $1,750,000. The price lowering seems to be $100,000 a month based on Streeteasy. Onwer paid about $763,000.

Now for the part that should be on the buy vs. rent postings:

We rent a 1 bedroom plus den on the 15th floor on 52nd and 8th. It's just a bit smaller than 2G and one bath short. The lease can renew for one or two years at $3395 - same as last year.

Suppose the owner would take $800,000 for 2G, suppose I put down $200,000, suppose I could get a mortgage at $6 per thousand ($3600), and suppose the maintenance/taxes stay around $1700 a month. It still looks like I don't have my $200,000 to invest and my monthly cost is $5300, about $2000 a month higher than rent.

I always prefer to be an owner, (and do own a total of five properties not in NYC), but NYC is making me lose my real estate nerve.

Thanks Captain and West81st....

I've been looking for investment property (i.e. still having obvious appreciation potential) between West 72 and West 116 (Columbia). The open houses I've been to probably would not warrant detailed layout report for the posters on this board. But I've found out some really interesting places and facts. Such as: 50 West 106 (2-bd, i bath, 800sqf, $760K, for one). The area seem to be chock full with new permits. The Jewish Home and Hospital is about to start building the whole block between W 105 and W 106, the usual combo of commercial and condo building). A few blocks down on Columbus is that giant Extell thing going up that has the Whole Foods signed up. The place itself is very "cool", 3 exposures, extremely light and quiet at the same time. It's in the only 16-floor one on a landmarked block of brownstones and townhouseson Manhattan Avenue. It has a European feel and has appreciated almost threefold in 10 years, and it's still affordable. It was a FSBO open house, and they had a pretty decent turnout.
The combination of affordability and appreciation looks promising. Anyone has any thoughts?

Personal note to drg - I just went back to your write-up of 186 RSD, and I owe you an apology for plagiarism. It wasn't intentional; your description of the half-lowered shade in 8A must have lodged in my subconscious.

Next, time, I'll add footnotes when I steal your stuff.

A leading indicator of changing market? I have received two follow up phone calls and one email from two different brokers after open house visit. Any one else getting follow ups? I never have before.

I got a follow up email soliciting my feedback. I told them it was priced too high given the current mkt. It has had a couple of price chops.

cliff702, did you see my recent "Broker Babble" thread? Though it evolved into a very fun discussion about beer, it began with a particularly interesting follow up email and had some other follow up mentions.

Just read all of Broker Babble - which may come and go with the vagaries of the real estate market - but good Belgian beer can always be counted on.

That's the spirit.

I have also received several follow-up calls from brokers.

btw, the inventory count on urbandigs is now 6,950. As long as inventory continues to soar, I expect more and more broker follow-ups. Fun times indeed.

Definitely a buyers market.

I'm shopping for a place in Hudson Heights / Inwood. The brokers are all making follow-up calls, and it's totally a buyers' market. I am totally timid about actually signing a contract because all the indicators just say wait a bit . . . . but my coop has a fully executed contract, and so I'll have to move . . . ..
What to do, what to do . . . ..

Without splitting too many semantic hairs, I'd call it a very slow market, not necessarily a buyer's market. Sales volume is low, asking prices seem to be gravitating toward year-ago comps, and agents are working to earn their commissions.

Follow-up calls to potential customers are a key part of any salesperson's job, in any industry. If such calls were unnecessary the last few years, it's because we were living in a bubble. When brokers start sending flowers - or better yet, calling to sell Amway products instead of apartments - then we'll know it's a buyer's market.

473 West End Avenue, #5A

Adding a little color to West81st's comments I saw the lower unit referenced in her (his?) post. Went their last year when the place was first listed. Renee Goff was at the showing and the place was a little cluttered. She explained an older couple was currently living their and did not have the opportunity to do the usual top-to-bottom straightening up.

Place showed its age a bit with older fixtures in the kitchen and bathroom and could stand some definite cosmetic improvements. Loved the floorplan with the exception of bathrooms. Did not like the split arrangement on the Jack and Jill bathroom. Both this bathroom and the master bath were pretty small, in character with the original pre-war layout.

Natural light was solid and loved the fact that none of the windows faced and inner courtyard.

Have a tough time coming to terms that $1,400ish psf gets you an apartment that still needs work, but the pricing seems somewhat inline with other pre-war West End comps in the 80's.

realestatejunkie: Thanks for the comments on 5A.

Have you checked this one?
http://www.buchbinderwarren.com/floorplans.php?property_ID=460
I showed up for the Monday open house. Unfortunately, the agent didn't. Granted, it's in the 70s, needs renovation, and the view is probably the side of Schwab House. Still, it's pre-war, high floor, north of 72nd, and the asking price of $1100 per square foot looks like progress over the numbers we've seen the past year. A few other nice apartments have dropped into that range, though the bid-ask spread on most listings still seems pretty big. Hence the slow market.

West81st, no problemo on the shades. I have to say that I was a bit miffed about that lowered shade given the lovely Eastern "view" referenced in the listing and the bait and switch on the picture from the bedroom window.

I have been to tons of open houses over the years (first bought in '98 and have looked on and off over the past few years as we really need to expand eventually). It never ceases to amaze me that agents use these tricks and waste people's time. Like, I wouldn't notice a serious flaw like a picture window full of black-painted mechanicals smack dab in the living room?

My other favorite was an 8th floor apartment at 336 WEA that had a solid brick wall view in the 2nd bedroom (which would be my daughter's room). When I commented on this to the agent, she actually had the audacity to say "well if you get up close to the window and look up, you can see the sky." I laughed in her face. But, someone paid $1.3+ million for it and it needed about $200K in renovation.

Just goes to show what can happen during a bubble....

277 West End Ave

Thanks for sharing this listing W81st. Had not seen it before.

$1,100 psf does seem closer to the appropriate valuation for a three bedroom on West End that needs a gut renovation. Would caution folks about the 2,500 sf sizing offered in the listing. Real, usable square feet these days tends to be signigicantly lower then what brokers are advertising.

Agree with you that 70's are slightly less desirable then 80's.

Would also add that the proposed renovated floor plan has some flaws. The proposed design does not take into account the ever present "Wet Over Dry" rules that coops follow when considering renovations. Under 'Wet Over Dry Rules one can not introduce plumbing elements where none previously resided. Placement of a washer dryer and the expansion of the master bath in the proposed floor plan are in violation of "Wet over Dry".

Dilema with these great Pre-War apartments is that kitchen and bathroom spaces taste in the 20's and 30's were significantly smaller then they are today.

Urbandigs your inventory count is off. Not 6,950. Currently 7,559 according to Streeteasy.

realeastatejunkie: I don't trust anyone's square footage numbers. Judging by the floorplan, though, 2,500 looks reasonably close for that unit at 277 WEA.

Plumbing rules are a minefield. FWIW, these particular changes don't seem especially egregious. If the Board balked, it would be possible to put the washer/dryer elsewhere - say, where the maid's shower seems to be currently. Expanding the master bath is basically binary - either you can or you can't. I've certainly seen more aggressive bathroom expansions than that one. Your general point is a really good one: never assume the Board will allow something - especially where water is involved - no matter how reasonable it may seem to you.