The Harrison

patient got it right...all about price which made no sense a year ago...now, crazy.

I cannot comment on noise on Amsterdam - hopefully my mid-76th street will not be much of a problem - the upcoming construction at 76th and Broadway is not gonna last forever. But as I said before, any objective comments should be helpful to potential buyers.

Regarding real estate prices. I've been an owner for 6 years, the last couple of years I've been "reluctantly long", i.e. I'd gladly have shorted my apartment if I had been able to. Prices were out-of-touch with respect to income/affordability, demand and supply. They still may be too high, given that Wall Street has been and will still be trimmed, exorbitant compensation schemes are much more rare and economy as a whole is still in trouble. Incomes are scrutinized more and financing is harder to obtain. However, there are a few things making NYC somewhat special (yep, I know I'm sounding like a much-hated RE agent) - financing has never been as crucial as in more speculative areas - therefore there are much fewer foreclosures which are a huge drag elsewhere. Mortgage rates are at record lows, changing affordability a lot. And we are on an island with a lot of dispersed ownership, making is harder to build in much-coveted areas. That was one of the reasons I went for a Harrison apartment recently - there is no comparable construction in that great area. I wouldn't want to live in the 58-70 X WEA-Riverside area for any money. That doen't make me a buyer of Harrison at any price but considering alternatives - everything I checked (and anticipate) made me believe that given all the circumstances and my expectations (which are very far from bullish) - it was a potentially reasonable opportunity. I wouldn't bet my life or savings on it, but if you can afford it, this may be the best choice for lots of people. All the renters may keep lauging at us-buyers and give all sorts of (sometimes not unreasonable) analyses - they may eventually be right - prices may collapse and are unlikely to rise from where we are. But there is also a chance of being left out if some of your assumptions don't work out - you may spend years living where you don't want to live not enjoying the lifestyle you desire and can afford. So I would never encourage anybody to invest in NYC RE - but there are some tangible and intangible benefits of owning what you want. Of course, no reason to get carried away in the process.

I am also concerned about how the appraisal process will go. They did make lots of 10% 10% depositors captive - so it will be hard to walk away. I guess we'll find out soon.

not sure i understand what you mean by "58-70 X WEA-Riverside.

i would interpret as 58th-70th st on west end ave or riverside.

didn't think there was a riverside below 63rd.

so, tina's 10 room apartment at 300 WEA would be OK for this guy at $3.4 million?

58-70 X WEA-Riverside is the area from The Element to the highrises overlooking the West Side Highway- great modern buildings with all amenities, but a depressing neighborhood. The Ariel is too far uptown. The new construction at 72nd and Broadway is noisy and polluted. The Harrison is a welcome addition - wish there was more choice.

Not sure I got the question about 300 WEA.

I think Trader wants new construction.

what's the difference between new construction and rehabbing pre-war? getting what you want in a great location at a reasonable price? check out 300 WEA. head and shoulders above new construction anywhere.

I did a renovation in my relatively new (1986) building apartment so I know what you can and cannot change. The NYC has lots of folks who would put a premium on big windows, modern central heating/AC, Equinox, playroom and entertainment room in the building etc. Call it irrational snobism - but as long as there are people who can afford it - you will see this premium.

Too late for me to look at 300 WEA but thanks for the lead.

in all fairness, don't think you can equate a 1986 building with big old prewars with hallways, real sized rooms, etc. with the right budget (and for what you're paying at the harrison, money would not be a problem for you) you can create kitchens that will blow away any and all new construction -- not to mention the fact that it would all be done exactly to your specifications. water cooled central air would also comfortably fit into your budget. the ten room apartment that i cited at 300 WEA for $3.4 million has enough space that you wouldn't need a central playroom and entertainment room.

equinox is a problem and, by the way, so is parking but the walk is good for you (although i will confess that i took a cab to equinox for years, always feeling like a jerk.)

Renovation is not for everyone, I speak from experience. I love it - I like choosing everything, but there is something to be said for all new quality construction.

The Harrison (prices aside) is very attractive for a number of reasons - new, quality construction; playroom; gym downstairs.

forgive me but price aside?

It's expensive! So hence the "price aside" - I am not getting into a debate about whether it's overpriced. But I can understand why someone would opt for the Harrison over 300WE.

Why is the equinox a plus in the Harrison? The top Condos typically build and staff a private club for the exclusive use of its residents. This is no different than living across the street from NY Health & Racket.

Because a lot of people (like me) don't use the gym other than for exercise classes. Having an in-building gym is of zero benefit to me unless it's a full service gym that has classes and childcare.

i guess i'm hung up on that 10 rm place with two fireplaces which including a big scale renovation will still be less than a significantly smaller space at the harrison. and won't come with all the financial ambiguity swirling around these new developments.

To each their own. 300WE is more my bag, but my partner would 100% go for the Harrison and pay more.

Even without classes, an Equinox cannot be compared to a simple building gym - you just don't get the same kind of choice, plus the childcare. Yes, these are all luxuries but this does make a difference. And having a sportsclub across the street or nearby falls into the same category - not the same thing, sorry. Being able to just take the elevator there isn't snobism - it does make your life much easier and enjoyable. And what do I need 10 rooms for?

However, if I was living in 300 WEA (by choice or due to circumstances), I am sure I'd find lots of advantages. So enjoy it if you end up living there - that will be nothing to complain about!

But this isn't really a building amenity then, Living across the street grants you the same access. What representation is made that Equinox will always be in business and at this location? The condo association is not in control of the commercial space.

Columbia, 300 WE is a co-op: why would anyone want to put up with a crusty co-op board when you don't have too? I'm assuming 300 WE's board is as annoying as a Park Av board?

that is a valid point; the answer (which is not very satisfying) is that you're buying the apartment, not the board and that the experience is another one of those new york nonsense situations (of which there are many) that we all put up with that make other people think we're nuts.

Riversider, there is no representations, like there is no representation that the UWS won't get attached to Hoboken. But it's there and is likely to be there.

And "across the street" on a cold winter day isn't the same as just taking the elevator down in you sports clothes. May not sound like a big convenience but it's like having to go to the restaurant to get you food delivery instead of having it brought to you. True, costs are of different scales but it illustrates my point.

All I am saying is that the fortunate folks who can afford convenience and comfort will always put a premium on these things. My communist grandparents would probably turn in their graves if they heard me... But seriously, I care very little about prestige, but value quality and convenience (to a reasonable degree I hope :)

sorry....perhaps its your grandparents channeling through me. but, really, have we come to a place where its really too much trouble to go across the street? that really isn't what we want to teach our kids, is it? full disclosure---my daughter once ( at least I hope once) ordered take out for toast. we're competing against other countries that can make their own toast and cross the street.

ManhattanRE- let me know if you're interested in an H line.

Trader: how much is the inconvenience worth of an empty lot across the street getting two years of construction. 7am they can begin and noise and dust for a few years plus the loss of light when the building goes up?

I happen to agree though that a gym in the building and one across the street are totally different. Adding a coat in winter and needing to go to the locker room, etc getting wet sneakers...columbiacounty may disagree but it is a really nice amenity.

Also, don't the common charges include free membership? I'm not saying it makes a huge difference but 2 memberships/month is at least $300/month savings.

Typical arrangement is first year membership free and a discount going forward. I guess you could argue the neighborhood is subsidizing your workout, but the discounts aren't normally that generous. I visited the sale center last year, I believe this is accurate, but please correct me. What's not mentioned is when you move to a new building the gym can serve as a place of meeting your neighbors and socializing. Having the gym as a storefront and sharing it with the community detracts from that experience a bit.

Riversider, the contract gives us 5 years of free membership. And I never went to gym for socializing. Unfortunately, there is no pool but as I'll have to take my kid to JCC classes, I intend to use their pool.

OldWest, an empty lot doesn't bother me in the least. True, I am going to lose my spectacular midtown 31st floor views - my wife and I decided to give them up as we think all the other things are ideal for us. Construction will be bothersome but the demolition is over and some foundation work may be done by the time we move in - then it may be just a year or so of construction. The loss of light (and view) is not ideal but this isn't our priority.

oh no...so you will have to cross the street at some point.

He's in the s. tower, and if it's the 4+ bedroom, I think that is the part of the s. tower furthest away from construction.

Enjoy, Trader!

trader - good article here. http://beta.therealdeal.com/articles/paying-homage-to-fit-in

looking forward to moving in.

I just came back from the JCC pool, from which you get a great view of the Harrison. I'd have to say that I hate the brick panels. Couldn't they have used individual bricks? Has to much of a prefab feel. Also, at this price point, couldn't they have thrown in a little limestone or something? That, and I wish every floor were 9 feet.

Other than that, it'll be interesting to observe the units as they slowly get occupied.

I stopped by The Harrison on the weekend and the doorman (in the South Tower) told me they are going to start closings in a week and people are about to start moving in. They are starting with lower floors. Has anybody been informed of scheduled closings?

I was trying to get an appraisor in before I have to deposit another 10% (just for my peace of mind) but the unit wasn't ready yet - looks like I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed and go for it. Btw, I am about to sell my midtown 2-bedroom, comparing prices per sqft, it doesn't feel like I overpaid for the Harrison (although this may still feel very different a year from now). Manhattan real estate remains a puzzle to me (why my apartmant is trading >60% over its 2003 price).

P.S. The building looks great - and what a great area - spent the weekend with my kid in the Riverside Park - looking forward to closing :)

do you have a way I can get in touch with you? or email me at 306simba@hushmail.com and I can get in touch with you from there, and was at the Harrison over the weekend too....

btw, trader, we also bought in s tower...

How did you end up reconciling yourself with the lower ceiling hts (for most of the S. tower) and the construction across the street? Curious. IMO, S. tower will be better in the long run because of horrendous noise from fire station on N side.

nyc10023,

Very simple - I'm short and half-deaf...

Seriously, I don't care about the construction site - this will go away. The ceilings are also a low priority. My objective was to have 4 bedrooms, no balconies, not to be on Amsterdam but 76'th - the 4-bedrooms of the South Tower looked great from all these points and I liked the floorplan.

What's your plan? Are you in or are you thinking about bottom-fishing once most of the units close and they start being more flexible?

I was seriously thinking about selling current place and buying in the Harrison summer of '07. Basically trading current place in for same-sized place at (hopefully) same price, but newer construction and better amenities. Couldn't get over the 8-foot ceilings. I'm short too, but once you get used to 9ft+, it's hard to go back.
The asking prices on the higher-ceilinged apts were a little insane. We get a great view of the South apts from the JCC pool :)

In the last 2 years, the public school situation has changed in the UWS. If you already have one kid going to a zoned school, you don't really want to move out of zone. You could end up with your younger kid not getting into their new zoned school and not getting into older sib's school (now out of catchment).

I was actually joking about "short and half-deaf".

My son is only 2 months old but I guess I should already sign him up for a school. After all the money spent on this apartment, I think a public school will be left as the only option.

But seriously, if I want him to go to a good multilingual school, anything you'd recommend? Gotta start doing such research, I guess.

You guys would know better than I, but aren't the ceilings in the lower floors of the ST supposed to be 9 ft, not 8 ft?

Trader: I am/was very interested in multilingual schools. UNIS has a good program. As does the Lycee & Scuola. But the commute from the UWS - not easy. Forget about going out of district to public bilingual programs. Since you're zoned for PS87, you can put in an app. for their dual-language Spanish program. Other bilingual programs are PS75/166 (forget which one, Sp) and PS84 (very new Fr. program).

If your kid starts at PS87 and doesn't get into or you don't want Spanish, think about working with the other parents to start foreign-language instruction as an afterschool program. This saves you the hassle of a commute and also means your kid is learning the language with his buddies.

MnahttanRE: no. You can tell from the street (and of course, the JCC pool).

Fr. preschool on UWS - Jardin something or the other. Sp - Escuelita (sp?)

Many private schools tout their "foreign language" instruction but I know some of the people running the programs - and you can get the same instructors, same program for your afterschool at PS87 if you organize.

Wow, I can turn ANY thread into a school discussion. Okay, time to feed the kids.

the ceiling height doesn't sound right--can anybody who bought in the ST confirm?

We are actually interested in both Spanish and French - thanks for the info.

On a more relevant subject - Related relisted a lot of apartments on SteetEasy - what does that mean? Are we finally coming to the ultimate collapse of Manhattan real estate? I still have a week to walk away :)

ManhattanRE: the NYCcondoblog forum blogs seem to think that it's 9ft in ST and 10ft in NT. All I remember from the sales appt is that the ceiling heights on the floors of ST that I was looking at was the "lower" ht. When I look at floors 3-6(?), before the setback on the ST, it looks to be 8ft, and then higher on the higher flrs. Maybe it's an optical illusion.

Trader: woah, I thought you were supremely confident in the Harrison.

South tower is 9 feet, N tower 10 feet. May be 10 feet in the S tower higher floors, but definitely not 8 anywhere.

Did some research while visiting a friend on 77th, btw amsterdam and bway. They claim there is no noise from the fire station (they even have their baby room facing the street). Apparently the trucks never turn on their sirens until after they have turned the corner on Broadway. From experience I can say that sometimes it's worse living a block away from the actual station. Sounds insane, but it's true.

I don't care where the noise comes from - either fire station or on Bway. We stayed at On the Ave facing the fire station for a few nights 2 years ago and I was woken up by fire trucks in the middle of the night. I am a VERY heavy sleeper.

We also bought 4 bedroom in the South Tower. Great building in a great location with the right amenities. After looking at aout 30 units in the UWS, felt this was the right spot.

Mediaexec, 123: curious why you didn't pull back once the market started tanking. Trader, I recall you bought later and were able to armtwist a little.

Are you buying a used Pontac or a place to live...

your point?

closings in a week? Not to doubt the word of the doorman...

But usually closing go floor by floor. We would see the TCO for the floor but also buyers would be sent their 15 day notices. Sure, it's possible all the buyers who got the notice didn't tell anyone or post that notices went out but usually first closings seem to make boards.

Anyone get a 15 day notice?

Has there been a single closing yet for the Harrison? What's their outside date?

Nothing has closed. And iirc, outside date is January 1, 2010. The building looks about ready. Closings should be soon. I would just be very surprised if closing notices went out and no one mentioned it.

I talked to Related - the StreetEasy "relisting" was a computer glitch - will be corrected. I have good reasons to believe it.

nyc10023, my confidence in The Harrison is proportional to my investment there. Right now I'm just 10% in - have to post another 10% in a week (I didn't mean I was closing in 1 week). Just imagine what a fan I will be once I'm 100% in!!!

Related said closings will start in 3 weeks.

Looking forward to moving in.

Maybe the construction site won't get financing for a new building and they will just plant trees there. I'm gonna fantasize about this possibility :) We'll have the best views in the South Tower!!!

i would think its gotta be a tough decision; it was a different world when you put in the first 10%. now you have to go in with a full appreciation of the risks to your capital.

Back in the early '90s, On the Avenue was called Benjamin Franklin Hotel, and it was an SRO! I stayed there when I get to the US. I think they had to buy out quite a few long-term people in there.
Even though I was really, really new and didn't know why some parts of the city are east and some are west side, that area felt good. And the West Side market was there, as well as Big Nick's and some diners.
Time flies.

It was only a few months ago for the first 10%. As I said before, everybody has their reasons and circumstances - I'm rather positive that we are OK to pay what we agreed for a place that will hopefully be our place for many, many years to come.

In any case, I'm gonna make this decision with the image of a beautiful park at the construction site. Will let you know how it goes.

never forget le caridad....known fondly at our home as the dad. pepper steak with onions, extra steak, black beans and a couple of orders of fried chicken wings.

cc, Big Nick's was my parents.
What used to be my room (12th floor) is now a suite. I lived there for over a year.
I stayed there for fun a year ago, and felt nostalgic...

It's a nice dream, Trader, but construction at 2150 Broadway appears to be in full swing. Excavation is going nicely.

According to the filings, it will be 18 stories high with below ground parking, two stories of retail, and will unfortunately, kill your southern view.

And closings in a few weeks makes sense. It would mean that closing notices go out this week or next week. I would bet someone posts when they go out.

rental or condo at this point?

cc, are you talking to me?

looks like they've corrected the listings on StreetEasy

Looks like another potential construction site next door to the Harrison:
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/jewish-service-agency-pays-45m-for-uws-garage

"mental health and social service agency" - this can be a useful amenity one day - I'll see it as a plus

recent 2 year lease means the Hertz wont be going anywhere right away. But yeah, busy area...

Are you 20% in now, Trader? I just looked at my stash of flrplans from the Harrison. The ceilings are indeed 9ft & 10 ft, not 8ft and 9ft. I like your floorplan... At one point they were offering potential combos of that 4br & the rear 1br for high 4s-low5s (6 brs with large utility room).

Sorry, Trader, those'll be just the offices for JBFCS. No services.

They have facilities all over the city and in Westchester, but few (if any) in the neighborhood.

nyc10023, re the JCC pool, just had dinner with an old-but-sprightly couple who also use it. Sounds great.

Ah, the oldies who use the pool. They do a great job keeping the pool area clean. Never feels crowded, probably because pool membership isn't cheap. The little pool is great for toddlers & babies. Family changing area is the best I've seen on the UWS - only quibble is that they probably could expand it a little.

nyc10023, yes, I'm in - just sold my midtown apartment, so there is no way back. Looking forward to moving in - trips with a stroller to both parks are getting a little too onerous.

Btw, thanks for the info on pre-schools and schools - glad there is plenty of good choices.

Ah, choice. Depends on your kid, their temperament, etc. We applied to 8 preschools for my oldest child and only received 1 acceptance, many WLs. Congratulations on selling your place.

Just got my closing notification - second half of July.

Just had our walk-thru, the building looks great, most amenities finished already and all I have heard about the related staff is true. Really a great experience from start to finish. The finishes in the apartment are perfect, we measured the ceiling height and they are 10' 7"... Definitely not just another new construction building. Looking forward to moving in.

Forgot to mention. It's quiet! Spent about one hour there on a weekday after 3, no noise.

vomit.

Humla--Congrats.

Which tower/floor are you?

We're facing the court yard in the north tower.

heard that a few owners have already moved into the South Tower so closings are underway

closing either this/next week and moving into the north tower. the place is beautiful. flat screens in the children's playroom were a nice touch. :)

plan on making full use of the bbq pits on the roof of the north tower once i move in.

you cannot be for real with these comments. please, please tell me you're being sarcastic.

Congrats fishbeancake, we're right behind you. Hopefully closing end of this week. I agree, the place looks phenomenal. Well above my expectations.

Sorry, columbiacounty, we are not going to waste time and emotions on being sarcastic and will just enjoy this exciting life event - moving to a great brand-new place. What's the point in second thoughts if we are already done (and with 20% down we are done)? We'll let you figure out the "market value".

Congrats to the new owners - will be nice to meet you. We are moving in in August.

Welcome to the nabe, Trader. We just spent a very pleasant evening eating on the patio at Citrus (very close to your new pad). Not the best food, but something for everyone. I had sushi, partner had quesadillas, kids split pasta.

wow...a flat screen in the kids playroom? a bbq pit on the roof? good luck with that.

this is who we are?

I started this discussion 14 months ago and said that this building was overpriced. 14 months later it is massively overpriced. I am sure the building is nice inside, but be real. Anyone who bought in this building got fleeced. Plain and simple. Fleeced.

you are a major downer. what about the flatscreen in the kid's room? what about the bbq pit? come on, give us all a break....what about the courtyard view ---sorry, that is hilarious. the new broker name for brick wall view is courtyard view.

thought the finishing turned out really well and surprised how much natural light enters into the entire apartment. definitely a quality product. also, am looking forward to frequenting the shake shack down the street every weekend with the kids. absolutely loving it.

See you in the building, fellow owners! Until then, this forum on the Harrison is good.
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10026

Congrats to those who have moved forward with purchases at the Harrison. The south face of the building has grown on me. I'm still not a big fan of the Amsterdam side, but they didn't build it for pikers like me.

On another front, #402 in the South Wing may offer a clue regarding market movement since the heady pre-construction days. Then again, it's just one unit, and it may not mean anything.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/268351-condo-205-west-76th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

It does make a good street wall with the Opera, at least as viewed from Fairway. I like the windows of that SW-corner line, especially the 11th(?) floor with the balconets.

West81st, looks like that one is a mistake from the sales office staff... I have the offering plan and all the amendments, and that unit has always had the lower price listed.

Building looks great and best of luck to those who have purchased.

What's going on with the contruction across the street? Is the Hertz on 77 moving?

Hertz on 77 is there for another 2 years, I think.

anybody would hazard a guess on percentage of 100 or so listings in contract that will close?

JBFCS can't afford to build now on 77th St. Hertz'll be there for at least two years.

The 76th & Broadway developer has construction financing, and is apparently going ahead.

west81 - 402 is the unit for the resident manager (humla, you'll notice that the manager's fee isn't charged for that unit in the amendment). i would hope they wouldn't raise the price for that unit, as we'd all be paying a higher price for the building manager's home.