Rejected by Co-op board

Co-op board president here.

My advice: MOVE ON.

They're not going to change their minds. Period. And they're not going to tell you why they turned you down -- so don't even bother asking. Trying to "overturn" their decision will only waste your time and the seller's.

Right. You're not rich enough for that co-op. Go back in ten years, after you've stashed away more money.

It's not always about being "rich" enough. I cannot speak for this board, since I haven't seen the board package, but there are many, many reasons for why this applicant could have been turned down.

Rich enough ?? It was a all cash deal !

Did the board tell you why they turned you down? How long have you had your job? Were you clean and presentable in the interview? Did you come in reeking of cigarettes? Do you have any criminal convictions they might have found? Do you play an instrument?

You could have been turned down because you are Latino,Black,Polish,Jew,Chinese or a Ghandi

It sounds like wdooley didn't even get to the interview stage.

And all-cash doesn't necessarily mean a clinched deal. Far from it, actually.

The co-op most likely requires a multiple of the purchase price. Just enough money to pay for it, and enough income to carry it, weren't enough.

The kid was probably attracted by the relatively-low price, and wasn't told about the reasons.

Did you get a good price because you offered all cash? Maybe the co-op board was protecting their resale values? Is there a way to make it look like you are purchasing for more $$? Decorating credit?

The kid was attracted by the value of the apartment and its close proximity to the office. This was not a cheap apartment btw.

I never made it the interview stage.

@ Wdooley. You did nothing wrong. COOPS LOVE TO FUCK WITH PEOPLE

What "kid"?

I'm curious now ...

How does a 23-year-old amass enough cash for a "not cheap" apartment in Manhattan?

did the kid have liquid assets in excess of the all-cash purchase amt?

many coops want to see excess liquid assets subject to a formula. many require excess assets equal to 48 times monthly maintenance + mortgage pmt (in your case zero).

There're lots of ways to have money, and lots of ways to be misinformed about what a given amount of money can get you.

Fortunately there're lots of condos, rentals and other co-ops that'd be within his means.

>>We are now in the process of trying to get a new contract in place where i will set up an escrow account that will contain 2 years of maintenance.<<

You're spinning your wheels. The board would have already asked for this if this were the issue. For whatever reason they just didn't like your application. Don't waste your time trying to push back. Won't work.

What makes you think 2 yrs of maintenance in escrow will make a difference? A suggestion from the listing agent? If the listing agent submitted something that didn't even get to interview, better evaluate if he has a clue.

try and purchase from Sponsor - No Board approval needed.

Red flag here ... 23 year old with cash for the apartment.

Guywithcat
about 1 hour ago
Posts: 126
Member since: Apr 2011
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Did the board tell you why they turned you down? How long have you had your job? Were you clean and presentable in the interview? Did you come in reeking of cigarettes? Do you have any criminal convictions they might have found? Do you play an instrument?

Catguy, why are you projecting?

The kid should probably buy a condo, or a restaurant

bramstar is right on the money here: an escrow will work if, and only if, the board has asked for it

wdooley:

1. you made the mistake of not dyeing your hair solid grey before your board interview
2. and going to your board interview without carrying a colonoscopy bag
3. which you hadn't emptied for at least 10 days

WDooley - who thought of/what is basis for this idea?

Do you know any residents? Sometimes 1 broker dominates a co-op in terms of volume and so knows the in's/out's of the board... Maybe the idea was from him/her?

If thought of by an outsider, concur with Matt and others to move on.

If you really want the apartment, it can't hurt to try and find out what, if anything, could be done to assuage their fears. There's no downside, and you'll never know unless you ask.

Absolutely.

There's certainly no harm in asking.

Just don't expect a response.

@ MATT ... You arrogant motherfuckers like to this to people, RIGHT ?

MIBNYC ...

Actually we don't.

Believe it or not, it's extremely time-consuming for board members to slog through an inches-thick application and try to coordinate our schedules just to sit down and discuss the applicant. And more often than not, there's missing or incomplete information in the package, further delaying the process as the message is relayed through managing agent to RE agent to applicant, then back to us.

It's in everyone's best interest for a broker to bring to us a truly qualified applicant who we can quickly approve and let all parties get on with their lives.

But alas, that is not always the case.

Come on Matt...did you really just say the following?

"How does a 23-year-old amass enough cash for a "not cheap" apartment in Manhattan?"

- Inheritance,
- Parents,
- Maybe he received a large signing bonus because he was drafted in the NFL.
- Gift/Lawsuit/Payout of LI Policy etc.,

and my favorite possibility....

- Walter White Jr.

This is Manhattan where some kids have the money to do these things. There are rich people in the world, these rich people have kids and their parents don't want to see the kids anymore so these kids need housing. Circle of life.

"Inheritance, Parents, Maybe he received a large signing bonus because he was drafted in the NFL, Gift/Lawsuit/Payout of LI Policy etc."

"This is Manhattan where some kids have the money to do these things. There are rich people in the world, these rich people have kids and their parents don't want to see the kids anymore so these kids need housing."

*****

If this is in fact the case (money he didn't actually earn himself), I can see why the applicant may have been rejected.

Most co-ops aren't interested in shareholders who have no track record of paying rent on their own or even living on their own.

MATT -- you refer to board packages missing items. Maybe if boards spent less time trying to work out their emotional problems and control issues in what they ask of applicants, you would have less nonsense to wade through. By and large most condos do just fine. So what you think you really gain over a condo reminds me of the TSA asking my (odd) friend to take the shoes off her dog because "all shoes must be removed!"

I have lived in coops for 18 years and each board is more sick and in need of SSRIs then the last one. Asking for letters from my friends and coworkers? As if those carry any weight at all?

You all would be better off in therapy instead of wasting everyone's time with your "board package." Douchebags.

Check out some condo package requirements, at ellimanpm.com, etc. Not much difference.

Coincidentally, the City Council is meeting about this right now: http://www.habitatmag.com/Publication-Content/2013/2013-April/Featured-Articles/Op-ed-Co-op-Admissions-Regulations#.UX_4_7XqlpU

Agree w most posters here - move on! Besides, why would you want to live in a building that makes it so hard for you to buy? imagine what would happen if you try to sell....

And adding to what Matt said - some buildings don't want younger people if much of their cash is inherited. There's a percpetion that people like this are 'trust fund babies" who make bad neighbors because they are irresponsible and disrespectful of the other residents, i.e. have lound parties, play music at all hours of the night. Even though you coud have a good job w long hours... one bad experience can spoil the bunch.

"Check out some condo package requirements, at ellimanpm.com, etc. Not much difference."

Legally, all that condo "boards" can ask of an applicant is his or her full name, current address, and telephone number.

That's it.

difference is, a condo's only option is exercise its right of first refusal and purchase the apartment

"By and large most condos do just fine."

No they don't.

The foreclosure rate for NYC condos hit 11.4% last year. Co-ops? 1.2%.

A condo board can ask an applicant anything they want and it's not limited to full name, current address and telephone number. The condo board doesn't have the right to approve or reject an applicant- only the right of first refusal.

i call b.s. on the foreclosure rate - please illuminate - you're saying that 11.4% of all condo owners in NYC were foreclosed upon last year?

"A condo board can ask an applicant anything they want and it's not limited to full name, current address and telephone number."

They can *ask*, certainly, but they cannot REQUIRE.

Either in foreclosure or some state of default.

Anything to back that up?

They can indeed require if provided for in the Offering Plan, and the NY AG approves the Offering Plans, so its not as if what is being asked is being done on the sly.

The foreclosure number being quoted by NYCMATT sounds nuts. Foreclosure rates in Florida are something like 9% and this guy is claiming they are over 11% in NYC? And then he backtracks "or some state of default".... it's like when GWB kept saying Al Qaeda "and other extremists". Morons both. I seriously doubt that Manhattan condo foreclosure rate is 11%. And if condos were all suffering from these alleged defaults, we would see much, much higher maintenances -- which we don't really see. In other words, NYCMATT must be a broker because no one else could create such a high volume of BS in such a short time.

>The foreclosure number being quoted by NYCMATT sounds nuts. Foreclosure rates in Florida are something like 9% and this guy is claiming they are over 11% in NYC? And then he backtracks "or some state of default".... it's like when GWB kept saying Al Qaeda "and other extremists". Morons both. I seriously doubt that Manhattan condo foreclosure rate is 11%. And if condos were all suffering from these alleged defaults, we would see much, much higher maintenances -- which we don't really see. In other words, NYCMATT must be a broker because no one else could create such a high volume of BS in such a short time.

Yes of course. NYCMatt is George W Bush and foreclosures are Al Qaeda.

@Guywithpussy ... LOL

.......and while I understand the benefits of a co-op using the application process to make sure a potential owner has the financial wherewithal to meet his/her ownership obligations, its the other "factors" that really are bothersome - the lack of transparency is appalling and the process is sometimes used by board members to further their biases secretly, without getting in trouble. Its racisim/elitism/and all the other "isms" rolled into one.

Most of what Matt says is incorrect. It would be very Matt-like to say that 90% of what Matt says is incorrect, so we'll leave it at "most".

ha...11% is absurd. you have no idea what you are talking about.

Matthew is a teevee journalist, so he's completely qualified to make up facts and true stories.

You'd think that a database of who's been approved and who's been rejected would be right up StreetEasy's alley. Ever see the company review/interview info on Glassdoor? Like that. People would post their financial situations and any other details that might be relevant, and add whether the board accepted or rejected them. It would take years, but over time the board's secret requirements would become clear and potential buyers who are afraid that a board might not accept them would know not to waste any time even looking at the listing.

@ jnnj.. you are on POINT !

@ jnnj .. you forgot Bullshitism !

Op you are 23. They did you a huge favor by turning you down as you would have had to live in Midtown East. I guess you are in your frat years so understand why it seems like a good idea, but tahnk your lucky stars. Moreover, why would you try and appease a board that turned you out. Kind of pathetic no? If you try really hard to date a chick and she firmly rejects you, would you keep trying to ask her out. Move on. Buy a condo. Pick a better location.

Richard Nixon was turned down by a Park Ave. board. He moved on to buy a townhouse and made a fortune.

Don't take this board turn down personally. If anything they're intimidated by a young smart guy.

I've lived in coops. Don't like them. Wasn't able to take a refi for a lower rate, therefore sold,bought a condo, haven't looked back.

Right now the condo market is poised to do much better than coops. Foreigners can't do coops.

wdooley,

It is very tough to overturn a board rejection -- it certainly has been done, but doesn't happen very often.

I'm wondering about your employment history; simply because of your age, you might not have been at your current job for more than two years, and that lack of stability might have been a touch point with the board.

I agree that offering escrow without being asked is a good strategy for your next purchase. I'd also make sure that your recommendation letters are stunning, and reflect your long-time interest in your current career, whatever it is, starting with your focus on whatever academic subject ties back to it.

I.e., you are not a newly minted grad working in finance, you are someone who was president of your Investment Club in high school who is thrilled to be working in a field that you have been interested in for more than seven years, and has a stellar recommendation from one of your college Econ professors (or however this example personalizes to your current situation).

GL!

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Triple_Zero, the proposed law would do just that. The NYC Commission on Human Rights would maintain a database of every co-op's requirements.

Those same requirements would have to be provided to any applicant, "applicant" meaning anyone with a contract.

Lots of other let's-legislate-this-to-death provisions, enough to keep almost everybody happy and/or busy.

"I.e., you are not a newly minted grad working in finance, you are someone who was president of your Investment Club in high school who is thrilled to be working in a field that you have been interested in for more than seven years, and has a stellar recommendation from one of your college Econ professors (or however this example personalizes to your current situation)."

OMG.

Yeah, that'll work.

>Those same requirements would have to be provided to any applicant, "applicant" meaning anyone with a contract.

And yet I don't see this as solving the intended problem, but as you say, seemingly keep almost everybody happy.

See the worst thing that ever happened to our freedom on highways is the 50 mph speed limit. The standard is so ridiculous it gave power back to the police to pull over anybody they want.

So boards will have phonebooks of requirements,a prospective buyer bound to have something "missing" or improperly filled out as grounds for the right to rejection, and will actually probably make it more obscure to acertain a true inappropriate bias situation.

I forsee large prospective buyer review fees by co-ops who will need to have much more time and know how to review packages, as well as lawyers reviewing.

How pissed are buyers going to be after seller passes on the now "$500" application fee for the board to review the prospective buyer and be rejected.

Hey Coop Board, you wanna hurt me? Go right ahead if it makes you feel any better. I'm an easy target. Yeah, you're right, I talk too much. I also listen too much. I could be a cold-hearted cynic like you... but I don't like to hurt people's feelings. Well, you think what you want about me; I'm not changing. I like... I like me. My wife likes me. My customers like me. 'Cause I'm the real article. What you see is what you get.

@NWT - I just read your article about the proposed bill, and while I like the idea of making things more transparent, I fear that adding more bureaucracy and getting the city involved might not be as good as a non-governmental, "crowd-sourced", Wiki-like database.

This database wouldn't just include requirements for buyers, but also other info that could make them not want to purchase. I visited an apartment last fall that seemed to be perfect, only to discover from the broker that the board (infmally) didn't want any subletting/renting at all, and that if you planned to move in and then wanted to rent it out for a few years while you were posted abroad, or whatever, the board would want you to sell. Now I was just visiting an open house, and nobody's time was wasted, but it should be possible to potential buyers to screen board-related negatives out while they're still at the clicking-on-apartments-in-SE stage.

TZero, something like that makes far more sense

It's still in committee, so no telling whether or when it'll go through, or in what form. The state and city realty groups have been pushing it for years.

There'll be unintended consequences, but that's always the way.

E.g., Local Law 11 or 12 or whatever it is. One person gets hit by a piece of falling masonry, and now every third building has a sidewalk bridge, industries have grown up around surveillance, and we're all paying for it. It's difficult to hit the happy medium with these things.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/realestate/co-op-board-presidents-tell-all.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&hpw=&adxnnlx=1367332641-SQXpIxZQy1StDZbWHwTxTQ

@Consigliere - Nice work pulling out a Planes, Trains and Automobiles reference.

Still waiting for the liar to explain his 11% default claim. Won't happen. FYI to those on ignore, you are being ignored.

What did Catguy just say? I have him on ignore.

Hb, you are fantastically prolific. But mostly inanely so.

I have Catboy on ignore . . . what did he just say?

Did it sound a little like
meow meow meow meow
meow meow meow meow
meow meow meow meow
meow meow meow meow

?

Wasn't as elegant as that.

We were rejected and then accepted. No one ever told us, but we suspected it was the price so submitted again at a higher contract price and were called in for an interview and then approved. All brokers with whom I discussed it said it must have been our financials. We did not change a thing about our submission other than the price. They're shareholders, and buyers look at comps. If the price is below market, this is a real possibility. If it's not below, then I defer to the other posters.

If I was living in a nice coop (which I don't) and some 23 year old guy with a lot of cash wanted to live in my building, I'd be all kinds of skeptical and I'd fear a party central type situation.

For the record when I was that age I rented a condo directly from an owner in a boutique brownstone in Boston's Back Bay, which is kind of like Boston's answer to Lenox Hill / UES. Stuck up people beyond belief. It was oil and water from the start and we were subjected to all manner of crazy rules. They prevented us from using alarm clocks. Couldn't have an answering machine. Weren't allowed to have friends visit. I eventually blew up at our neighbor, who was a Euro lawyer who had a long, oiled, black pony tail and wore leather jackets. His wife was an "actress" (maybe 40 years prior) and they made our lives miserable. We hadn't held a single party. Never had friends visit. We were both health / exercise freaks into marathon training and so forth, living the clean life and working real hard.

Before we eventually moved out (a decision everyone believed was appropriate, including us), we threw a party to end all parties. We were sick of being discriminated against for being young, so we lashed out and gave them what they feared most - 100s of extremely drunk and horny young entitled rich kids going out of their minds all night. My roommate at the time came from serious $$$. I mean serious, old-school, Forbes 50 type family. We invited about 300 people and blew it out. I remember standing on the terrace overlooking the Charles River as a guest was urinating into the potted plants the neighbors used to decorate their terrace. My neighbor was standing there watching this happen.

To be clear, we did not damage the apartment, this was more of a noise violation situation, and was multiple decades ago. Our ex-landlord remains a friend and the neighbors eventually had to sell as they couldn't afford the place any more.

Long story short, just move on dude. Oil and water. I wouldn't fight it.

Multiple decades ago the Back Bay was quite exceptionally slummy and filled with Undesirable Types. Or do you mean pre-WWII? Or do you mean Beacon Hill, which wasn't any great shakes at the time either, when you get right down to it?

Tomnevers: Great comment and I think I know which Building you lived in, back in the day.
No alarm clocks, no answering machine because "it could be heard by/disturb the neighbors and also out in the hall."

Was there a sign-in policy,or prior visitor to the apartment advance notice situation?
Was the Building Manager a guy named,(if I can remember) John/Jack/Jim ?

Just move on, wdooley. There are nice condos for sale.

Tomnevers: trollalanhart wasn't living in nor visiting the Back Bay neighborhood "multiple decades ago".
"When you get right down to it": trollalanhart lived the same lonely life decades ago, as he now lives in NYC today.

Only difference is that there was no internet, no streeteasy site for him to troll.

@ WOODY ... plz go get a condo. A coop board once asked Mariah Carey if Biggie would be visiting her if she lived in their building, her response was " that would be dificult since he's benn DEAD for a couple of years" ..AND THAT after these COOP idiots had her COOP packgage for 7 FUCKIN MONTHS !! ( EXPLAIN THAT MATT)

She probably was unresponsive to board requests to clarify and complete her package ...

@ MATT ... well of course it had to be MARIAH'S FAULT and her utterly stupid, incompetent broker DOLLY LENZ.

it's possible that the pre-foreclosure rate in nyc is 11% because the obama regime banned foreclosures,

and even if those crooks didn't ban foreclosures, it takes at least 10 years for the corrupted nyc courts to stack all pre-foreclosures to the foreclosure pipe, it means forever

deadbeats enjoy their best era

"deadbeats enjoy their best era"

An era brought about by the banks ...

@wdooley, what was the source of the cash for this deal?

@9d8b7988 ... source of cash ??? SELLING YO MOM BEFORE THE HOLLAND TUNNEL !

Why would anyone subject themselves to the loser sociopaths on pitiful power trips on coop boards. Only in NYC . Yes, condos are more expensive but they are worth the differnce .

Best description of NYCMatt I've seen yet!!!! So proud of his "Presidency," but the loser sociopath you describe, yet he's too insipid to realize it. Ah, my beloved San Francisco......................

The lesson here is that if its difficult for you to buy the place, it may also be difficult for you to sell the place.

Rejecting because a bid is too low is stupid -- basically what the board is saying by doing that is 'no one is selling until the market improves to our liking, if that ever happens, and everyone who wants to is stuck'
Just because a sale doesn't (or does) happen doesn't change the market value of a property.

Hi Crazycardo65!

How long does it take for the seller to return the deposit? The official rejection notice went out on 4/26.

Not that long. How long does it take to write a check?

The committee hearing is at http://on.nyc.gov/19bcIO4 with the testimony starting at 50 minutes in.

When this happened to me, I had to ask my attorney to get on to them to ask for the check. You probably need to push a little.

They probably rejected you because they figured you borrowed the money from mommy and daddy and are on the hook to pay them back. They are not stupid. They know 23 year olds don't have money to buy apts. for cash.

you are quite madcap. midtown east, 23? where not were. next coop rejection tale.

Easy there Socialist. There could be a trust, or assets left in a will.

As someone that has served on my coop Board for 8 years, the last 2 as President, as well as knowing many other people that serve on their coop and condo boards, I have a suggestion. Stop bashing and categorizing the people that volunteer countless hours to budgeting, staff issues, capital improvements, insurance etc. etc.
Every Board uses a template/guidelines to assess Applications. The goal is to do it fairly across all applicants. The decision is based on many factors and combinations. Its like a puzzle, in the end...does the applicant have the 'financial maturity' (not age) to be able to meet their financial obligations in the event of a change in circumstances. Job loss or job loss of spouse/partner, loss of source of gift monies, bad debt to income ratios, etc. If the purchase is going to significantly increase their housing expenses and they are spending all their income currently..where will the additional money come from?
A Board does not consider 401K/retirement money liquid unless the applicant is old enough to withdraw with significant penalties.

Our Board is made up of 7 very different people, each confident to express their opinions and guided to make the best decisions for the Shareholders of the building.
You describe the Board members like sick, evil control freaks.
In reality they are just volunteers from and reflect the people that own the coop.
If You think it should be different then do something about it by getting involved in a constructive way.
If you reviewed some of the nearly 'fairy tale 'applications submitted you would be just as cautious. It is so easy to verify information on the internet that submitting anything less than honest or accurate is foolhardy.
An application approval is really only good if it's good for the building and good for the buyer.

Boards simply do not like young people. Period. Move on. I have several cases like this. Try to find out from the listing agents before even care to going through with those stuck-up boards.

I really don't care for NYC Matt's tone in this thread, but as someone else who has much experience with coop boards, the fact this was a 23 year old kid with cash to make the purchase is precisely why he was turned down. I'll agree with Matt on this point (much further above) that this would be a major red flag. It's not rocket science people. Jeez. There are an array of factors that probably were considered and it's hard without seeing the application myself (origination of the funds), but there are few, if any coops, that would "approve" a 23 year old kid paying in cash regardless of where the money is coming from. It just doesn't happen people. This is day one real estate stuff. Shame on the brokers and the seller for not being wise enough. Then again, common sense is a valuable commodity these days.

>I really don't care for NYC Matt's tone in this thread

This is an internet message board - you need thicker skin.

But since we are at it, I didn't like your unnecessary use of the word "people" twice while lecturing us from your perch of being a day two expert in real estate. Also, "Jeez" is disrespectful. Finally, you didn't indicate if you have enough money to be able to buy some common sense.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/council-bill-aims-speed-limit-20-mph-article-1.1530483

City Council bill aims to lower speed limit in much of city to 25 mph

Council members that support the bill say that the measure — which would lower the 30 mph speed limit in most of the city — could save lives, while a taxi industry representative testified against it. City Council Speaker Christine Quinn says the goal is to pass the bill by the end of the year.

fieldsy--what does this have to do with co-op board rejections??

Once again NYCMatt shows his ignorance, beginning with "how can a 23 year old amass cash." I guess this idiot hasn't heard that some people come from rich families and have things called trust funds. Lots of 23-year olds have lots of cash, and it doesn't mean they are drug dealers.