Where are you planning on retiring?

Accidental single unit landlordship reflects foolish personal planning.

agree, where are you planning on retiring? how long from now?

3rd option: I'm hoping to be there until I die, but will sell when it's no longer safe for me to live there (i.e., need a level of heatlh care beyond what can be provided by home care staff).

Time frame: 30+ years, though I'm aware of the adage "Man proposes, God disposes".

I hope to retire in NYC, if my generation will be able to retire at all. I just hope that the United States is still a functioning nation by then.

About 20 years (although he will be able to work part time very easily, and anywhere). Where I have no clue, but it's not likely to be NYC. And it will likely be more than one location. I, of course, have already "retired," years ago, being a SAHM and all that that entails.

> I hope to retire in NYC, if my generation will be able to retire at all. I just hope that the United States is still a functioning nation by then.

this sounds very pessimistic, how old are you?

> About 20 years

really? somehow i would have thought much sooner than that.

> but it's not likely to be NYC.

what is that?

This is a no brainer. I'm saving all my money to retire in Washington Heights. The easiest commute to all of Manhattan, great restaurants and totally gentrified. Now I can only hope NYCMatt will be my neighbor. *Crosses fingers*

Triple_Zero
about 4 hours ago
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I hope to retire in NYC, if my generation will be able to retire at all. I just hope that the United States is still a functioning nation by then.

Yes we will be.

moxieland
11 minutes ago
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This is a no brainer. I'm saving all my money to retire in Washington Heights. The easiest commute to all of Manhattan, great restaurants and totally gentrified. Now I can only hope NYCMatt will be my neighbor. *Crosses fingers*

Oh you are so elite.

buenos aires

> This is a no brainer. I'm saving all my money to retire in Washington Heights. The easiest commute to all of Manhattan, great restaurants and totally gentrified. Now I can only hope NYCMatt will be my neighbor. *Crosses fingers*

isnt' that Reggaeton Central?

Why much sooner? My husband loves his job, isn't much over 50, and his firm has no mandatory retirement age. I'm assuming he'll work less, but even with his current atrocious hours we can travel eight weeks a year. We save a substantial amount, but I see no reason for extreme austerity for early retirement given his job situation.

What is that? I don't know yet. Likely Seattle one half of the year, and travel the other half, but the devil is in the details.

>We save a substantial amount, but I see no reason for extreme austerity for early retirement given his job situation.

Plus you got the money from the lawsuit.

> Why much sooner? My husband loves his job, isn't much over 50, and his firm has no mandatory retirement age.

i only know people working longer by "choice" (usually not really though) in academia. didn't know that it's common for lawyers to work after 70.

Costa Rica, Atenas or maybe by the beach; then Playa Hermosa (Jaco)

No, until about 70. And I have no intention of running short of cash in old age, barring a major disaster. One of my husband's specialties is international arbitration. We're good just about anywhere. And it will very much be by choice. Most attorneys are at least moderately miserable, my husband loves his career. Go figure.

Many of the better law firms strongly encourage the over-65s out. Now that clients hate to pay for youth, the elders may be encouraged to stick around. A lot of clients don't really feel comfortable with younger partners in charge, they actually like the older ones in charge.

I'm going to retire to Broome Street between Bowery and Chrystie Street. Well not exactly retire but more like a second career. Going to get me a wheel chair, ratty cloths and just hang on the block panhandling from cars and passing pedestrians. I like the idea of a continuous income stream, being out doors and meeting new people but only briefly.

>Most attorneys are at least moderately miserable, my husband loves his career. Go figure.

Well, what is his alternative?

Plenty. What do you do,? When are you going to retire? When are you going to add anything of substance to a thread, fuckwad?

Good point, aboutready. Fuck you and your sanctimonious self.

aboutready
27 minutes ago
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Good point, aboutready. Fuck you and your sanctimonious self.

You are talking to yourself?

You can't figure it out? Nitwit dipshit.

What do you do? Do you volunteer? How do you give back? Where do you live, do you rent or own, what's your housing story?
Until you answer these simple questions you have no credibility here. None. You're just a troll who offers virtually nothing but feels free to comment about the lives of others.

Either Riverdale or Chinatown. Riverdale because it's beautiful, green and has fresh air that New Yorkers are deprived of. Chinatown because food is great and cost of living, including services (massages anyone?" is relatively low compared to most neighborhoods. "Luckily" I have a looooong time to decide...

>Until you answer these simple questions you have no credibility here.

Taking the money from the the tenants of PCV isn't enough, now you set the rules for everyone else?

Answer the question, don't just repeat the same lies over and over again.

AR: you do realize that you are just as much a troll in this scenario. Kindly give it a rest.

>AR: you do realize that you are just as much a troll in this scenario. Kindly give it a rest.

She is the exclusive troll. Very early in this thread in response to the OP, I thoughtfully warned any reader about the foolishness of becoming an accidental single unit landlord. I did that without interjecting any of my own personal irrelevant detail.
Aboutready in her typical style comes here to brag about her life of leisure and her good pick of a well earning hard working husband who serves her long term needs now for even an extra 5 years. What relevance is that to someone else contemplating how to handle their own retirement unless that other person is in the same unique circumstances? None, but it makes her feel superior.

Ottawa, answer this. Who actually responded to the OP, with real info? Who gratuitously brings up my situation randomly and incessantly in non-related threads, and ones where I'm not remotely involved? Seriously, you don't know, clearly, the history. And hb loves to judge. And always asks people to defend their life choices but won't reveal anything. This is a board for sharing info, whether you are just scraping by and trying to figure out your options or you are looking to spend millions. Hb is hsf, and I think you came after that.

Without interjecting any of my own personal irrelavent detail.

Lovely. Except the thread specifically asks for personal detail. Idiot.

Maybe you should stick to responding to riversider. Wait....

Apparently you took your Yale education that others paid for and in the process of taking it for granted, forgot how to read. Go read the original post and if you aren't too tired come back and respond.

beating a dead horse.

Where are you planning on retiring? How long from now? post number three, you chose to not answer. I've already said many times I'm giving the apartment to my kid.

Where are YOU planning on retiring? Where do YOU live? Do YOU rent or own, or live in your mommies' basement? Tool.

which kid are you giving the apartment to? Remember that you told us you had two because you legally adopted a new kid, as you said he'd otherwise be in the prison system (you savior!) so try to stick with that story please: which kid gets the place in Williamsburg while you retire in Seattle half the time using the money your husband earned and the windfall you received from the lawsuit.

> Costa Rica, Atenas or maybe by the beach; then Playa Hermosa (Jaco)

that beach looks gorgeous! what's special about Costa Rica, Atenas?

> No, until about 70. And I have no intention of running short of cash in old age, barring a major disaster. One of my husband's specialties is international arbitration. We're good just about anywhere. And it will very much be by choice. Most attorneys are at least moderately miserable, my husband loves his career. Go figure.

LOL this is a great situation to be in! congrats to both of you

> Many of the better law firms strongly encourage the over-65s out. Now that clients hate to pay for youth, the elders may be encouraged to stick around. A lot of clients don't really feel comfortable with younger partners in charge, they actually like the older ones in charge.

wow, partners aren't that young to begin with. guess many of the clients tend to be old themselves?

> I like the idea of a continuous income stream, being out doors and meeting new people but only briefly.

hilarious!

It's in the SUBJECT LINE!!! A solicitation for the personal information of the repliers. Inclusion of rationale strongly implied.

Me: Idle hands are the Devil's playthings, so I'll just keep toiling away and stay put, forever.

"You're just a troll who offers virtually nothing"

... ALMOST correct. Just a troll who offers nothing, virtually.

Hi alanhart, what was your original plan after you retired?

>> Many of the better law firms strongly encourage the over-65s out. Now that clients hate to pay for youth, the elders may be encouraged to stick around. A lot of clients don't really feel comfortable with younger partners in charge, they actually like the older ones in charge.

>wow, partners aren't that young to begin with. guess many of the clients tend to be old themselves?

Keep in mind that this information is from someone who doesn't work in a law firm, or in a corporation or other client. Although she did receive money from a lawsuit.

What about you?

I've only worked in five law firms, and my husband has worked for at least seven, and for two in management. Idiot.

Not admin, you are so correct. The partnership track has been extended greatly over the last decade or so. Prime earning years for attorneys have been significantly reduced at many firms. And while the partnership model without shareholders is more secure than most professions, it's becoming less so.

And again, troll, quit talking about me and answer the op's question, what about you? You offer nothing.

No, the clients aren't necessarily older. If they're paying those rates they are now demanding a higher level of expertise and knowledge.

>I've only worked in five law firms,

As a lawyer?
When was the last time you worked in a law firm?

What about you? Where have you worked?

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113941/big-law-firms-trouble-when-money-dries?src=longreads

look--a pasty!

Aboutready?

What have you done? Do you rent? An rs apartment maybe? Stfu, you have no credibility.

>What have you done? Do you rent? An rs apartment maybe? Stfu, you have no credibility.

I'm confused, a rent stabilized apartment would give me the required credibility?

Back to the topic:

We are planning to retire 1/2 time in Brooklyn, 1/2 time in Atlanta until travelling becomes difficult. Once we are poorly mobile, then 100% in Brooklyn.

However cost of maintaining 2 homes may be challenging. After a recent visit to Portland, OR we do have a Plan B: Rent out Brooklyn, live in Portland! Rents/real estate prices are more stable in NYC during busts. So rental income will be more reliable from our Brooklyn home. Portland, OR was amazing, kind of like a quiet, homogenous, low cost Brooklyn. I prefer Brooklyn with better taxi and delivery service. But if cost of living becomes an issue renting the apartment out and living in a lower cost area seems a good alternative.

AR:
I prefer Portland, OR over Seattle, but it's been 15 years since I have been to Seattle. Have you visited Portland?

I'm the opposite, I prefer Seattle, but it's been about 15 years since I visited Portland. I was in Seattle last summer, loved it.

Seattle's Belltown area is oddly similar to Williamsburg.

Can you get Fresh Direct delivery of bananas in Belltown?

I'll definitely have to revisit Seattle. (But then there's the rainy season.)

There's no way I can live there year-round. But summer is stunning.

The area is funny, they have Bellevue but that's not a hospital or place to get Legionaires disease, and Leavenworth but that is not a prison.

Anyone of retirement age who owns their residence in NYC can simply stay put and enjoy NYC in retirement. If you need to downsize, just cash out your massive 100% equity you've built up over 30 years.

Roll a small part of it into a cozy $500k 1BR, and pay your $900 monthly maintenance.

Renters? They will need to leave and go to some low income retirement trailer park community in the South.

>Renters? They will need to leave and go to some low income retirement trailer park community in the South.

Is C0lumbia C0unty also an alternative?

\I would study the long term trends there before investing in Atlanta. There are aspects of the city that I think are seriously not good. If you're just renting, no worries, but to buy there.......I would be very careful.

Ugh, I just couldn't imagine living on Peachtree.

"Anyone of retirement age who owns their residence in NYC can simply stay put and enjoy NYC in retirement. If you need to downsize, just cash out your massive 100% equity you've built up over 30 years.

Roll a small part of it into a cozy $500k 1BR, and pay your $900 monthly maintenance.

Renters? They will need to leave and go to some low income retirement trailer park community in the South."

****************

BINGO!!!

I've been saying this for years.

HOME OWNERSHIP is the only true path to being able to retire in New York City.

And don't let these financial academics who pooh-pooh real estate as an "investment"; perhaps it won't outpace stocks or other investment vehicles. But it's not SUPPOSED to; at the end of the day, once you reach retirement age, it's not about whether a stock portfolio would be more valuable than your paid-off apartment. it doesn't matter that the apartment may not be worth as much as a stock portfolio. Retirement isn't like a game of Monopoly where at the end of the game everyone cashes everything in; in retirement, you'll be LIVING IN that real estate investment. You cannot do the same thing with a stock portfolio.

Put another way, let's say Patrice makes $100K/year. Her budget is $2500/month for housing. Her take-home pay is $4500 a month. After her bills and incidentals are paid, she has $500/month to invest in her retirement.

She has the choice of buying a modest $300,000 one-bedroom non-doorman walkup in a not-so-"prime" part of the city that will cost her $2500/month ($1700/fixed-rate mortgage and $800/month in maintenance). Or she can just pay $2500/month for a chic little studio in the East Village.

Option A: Buying. Over the course of 30 years Patrice enjoys the stability of never having to worry about rent hikes or being forced to move when landlords change. Her mortgage payment never changes, but of course, over the course of 30 years, her maintenance will have gone up incrementally. Given that it's a walk-up, there will be no outsized maintenance increases or assessments on elevator repairs or replacement. There's no doorman or other building staff except a super, so labor charges are pretty much fixed. For buildings like that, maintenance increases are quite modest ... sometimes less than one percent one year, maybe as much as seven percent in another (to buy a new roof and windows, for instance). In the end, over 30 years, let's say her maintenance increases average 4% each year. By the year 2042, she'll be paying $1700/month in mortgage, and most likely close to $1700 in maintenance. Hopefully, of course, her career has grown over this time, or at the very least, she's been getting cost-of-living raises to afford that $3400/month.

But now she's nearing retirement and won't be able to pay $3400/month. No fears! Guess what? Next year she pays off the mortgage, and her monthly housing nut will drop to $1700/month -- well within her retirement income range.

(We won't even go into the obvious enormous tax savings she's been enjoying over the past 30 years, or her ability to have put that extra $500/month towards paying off her mortgage early.)

Now let's look at Option B: Renting. By 2015, Patrice's cute little $2500/month East Village studio is already unaffordable; the rent has shot up to $2800. No worries, she can stay ... she'll just use $300 of her $500 in "investing" money to cover the difference. But that only works until 2017, when the rent shoots up to $3200. Now she must move. Let's hope she's been saving, because she now has to come up with first month/last month/security deposit PLUS a couple grand for the movers. That's close to $10,000. THIS year. She moves to Greenpoint in another $2500 unit. THAT lasts for only a few years until it becomes unaffordable. Now she moves again. For another $10,000. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. For the next 20 years.

Even if she's managed to bounce around from apartment to apartment, finding something new in her price range each time, she's living like a gypsy and paying tens of thousands of dollars every few years for movers and real estate agents.

Now it's 2042, and market rent for a decent one-bedroom in the city has skyrocketed to $6000/month. Of course, it's 30 years later and everyone's incomes have also gone up with inflation, so she's now making $200,000/year (which sounds like a lot, but is really the same $100,000 in today's dollars, just like $100,000 today is like what $50,000 was like back in the '80s). She's still paying close to half of her income in rent.

Unfortunately, in 2043, her housing expenses will not drop to $1700. Not in this universe -- not in a million years. She has nothing to show for those hundreds of thousands of dollars she's been pumping into landlords' pockets over the past decades, except a shoebox full of rent receipts. She's ready to retire, but no way can she continue to pay $6000/month in rent. She has no choice but to leave New York City and move in with her sister in Cleveland, in an attic bedroom.

Oh, but Patrice has been "investing" in her retirement all along! Well good for her! Unfortunately, that $500/month is really just a drop in the bucket. Even if she's been upwardly adjusting that amount to coincide with her annual pay increases, it's still the equivalent of only about half a week's net pay.

But here's the dirty little secret the Wall Street financial planners won't tell you: For a middle-class earner (and Patrice is actually UPPER middle class), it's mathematically impossible to "save" and "invest" enough to adequately replace the income you will be retiring from.

Option A allows Patrice to live in New York City on only $1700/month. If she wanted to remain in New York City and RENT instead, Patrice's investments would have to be able to pay her back -- until the end of her life -- $4300/month -- in order to cover her $6000/month rent. Unfortunately, she'd need a nest egg of more than $2 million (in today's dollars mind you -- by 2043 the required nest egg would be more like $4 million). That figure is mathematically impossible for someone in her income bracket to achieve.

So what's Patrice the Owner's apartment actually WORTH in 2043? WHO THE HELL CARES? She's not selling it! She's LIVING in it!

What's Patrice the Renter's nest egg look like? Not nearly enough to enable her to retire in New York City (or frighteningly enough, most other major cities at this point).

THAT is truly the secret to being able to retire comfortably: owning your home free and clear so you're not paying market rents in your retirement!

So when you retire, you can sell your apartment in Fort George and buy one in New York instead? Another walkup, presumably, but much much smaller. Stairs for exercisse, and, um, an efficient layout so you don't have to do too much walking in your apartment. The Golden Years.

Alan, re-read my passage about NOT SELLING YOUR APARTMENT IN YOUR RETIREMENT.

So then how will you retire in New York? Re-mortgage the Fort George walk-up?

Is Fort George part of Brooklyn?

>let's say Patrice makes $100K/year. Her

I always thought Patrice was a man. This makes me want to re-examine a few things.

His previously unemployed couch surfers will return when he descends into his dotage, but this time they'll pay for the privilege, thereby providing Matt with just enough money for maintenance. Until he needs depends. That's a game changer.

>His previously unemployed couch surfers

Oh aboutready, NYCMatt hasn't mentioned his unemployed couch surfers for what, a couple years now, and yet there you are, harping on the past and things people said long ago.

"So then how will you retire in New York? Re-mortgage the Fort George walk-up?"

Why would I need to do that, Alan?

And enough of this Fort George nonsense. Learn your geography. It's Hudson Heights.

>THAT is truly the secret to being able to retire comfortably: owning your home free and clear so you're not paying market rents in your retirement!

Matt, that is also the secret to LIVING comfortably! If you work hard and save, you can pay off your mortgage within a few years. Then, you can just live for $700/mo for the balance of your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s...AND retirement. With such low overhead for most of your working life, you can pursue the sort of work and leisure that suits you. Or just work part-time for most of your life. The possibilities are limitless when your rest is $700/mo.

Paris is an incredible city

NYCMatt:

I'm with you! Your reasoning is exactly why we bought in Brooklyn. Our first thought in buying was that we wanted to retire in NYC. Investment was a secondary consideration as an alternative asset class to add diversity to our stock heavy portfolio. By doing so, our retirement costs are now much more predictable.

Kharby2:

We currently live and own in Atlanta. We see Atlanta as our "country home". I certainly don't recommend buying in Atlanta for investment OR retirement. The weather here is mild but the city in general is not senior friendly being VERY car oriented. We are simply settled and comfortable enough in Atlanta to make it the counterpoint to NYC's hustle and bustle which we do love! But once we are very old and poorly mobile, NYC makes a lot more sense for retirement.

>. Then, you can just live for $700/mo for the balance of your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s...AND retirement. With such low overhead for most of your working life, you can pursue the sort of work and leisure that suits you. Or just work part-time for most of your life. The possibilities are limitless when your rest is $700/mo.

$700 per month? Is this in NYC or C0lumbia C0unty?

Or Tac0ma?

> $700 per month? Is this in NYC or C0lumbia C0unty?

Lots of co-op studios and 1BR's with a monthly maintenance of $700.

> HOME OWNERSHIP is the only true path to being able to retire in New York City.

why is that desirable? wouldn't the retirees be stuck with bad weather, among workaholics and having to pay for bloated public pensions? what's the upside to retiring in NYC?

> Until he needs depends. That's a game changer.

Could Matt keep on living on his walk-up once he's on depends? Imho Manhattan ain't elderly friendly, even if realtors insist it is.

"wouldn't the retirees be stuck with bad weather"

"Bad weather" is really only an issue if you have to go out in it. If you're not working, this is not an issue. Besides, I think the weather is plenty bad in Florida pretty much all the time.

***

"among workaholics"

There's nothing cooler than being around people who have to work their asses off, knowing that you don't have to.

***

"having to pay for bloated public pensions?"

"Bloated" public pensions are everywhere. Deal.

> "Bad weather" is really only an issue if you have to go out in it.

this is imho no way to enjoy leisure time, being stuck in a small home with ugly weather outside. but i do understand it if there are no alternatives. imho that's why FL has always been the natural place to retire from NYC for those with some ability to afford the move.

> "Bloated" public pensions are everywhere. Deal.

read Whitney's book, i didn't need to because I got it before it was published. but it'll enlighten you. there's even more advantages to play geographical arbitrage during retirement going against NY-NJ-CT and CA thanks to pensions and aging populations.

> "among workaholics"
> There's nothing cooler than being around people who have to work their asses off, knowing that you don't have to.

not really. unless you are a loner and like to be around stressed out people.

notadmin:

NYC has got everything we want to do when we are retired from museums/plays/symphony/dining to parks/neighborhoods/stores to hang out in. We are usually in NYC for relaxation and we love it.

Then when we are super-elderly there is delivery/taxi/car service when we are apartment bound. And with a building where maintenance is taken care of, with doormen/handymen/live in superintendent/elevators, it's like assisted-living.

We love hiking the Rockies and Cascades, hanging out in the Florida panhandle, and visiting the Maine coast every year. But for us,when it comes to day-to-day living nothing beats NYC.

interesting! are you an old boomer?

i meant, early boomer, those already retired or really closed to retirement?

Trying to grow an apple orchard. Farming. It's the new RE retirement plan.

Go Team Fruit!

We are planning to retire in 10-15 years. We'll be mortgage free by then with kids out of college.

> Trying to grow an apple orchard. Farming. It's the new RE retirement plan.

there are a ton of hobby farmers out there. it pays with the property tax cut alone. all you need is more than 4 acres.

half year Charleston SC, half year NY. Living this arrangement now and love it.

> half year Charleston SC, half year NY. Living this arrangement now and love it.

nice! this is the only way i imagine NYC doable. why get stuck here during the winters when you don't need to?

half year Long Island City, half year Hamilton Heights.

> half year Long Island City, half year Hamilton Heights.

lmao! flyover is better than both of those areas