755 West End Avenue #10A Coop, seven rooms; 3 BR, 2 BA + servants’ quarters Asks $2,600,000; Maint. $2,766 Traffic: Light (First OH following Board rejection) Location: North of prime UWS, on the slope to 96th that marks a weak spot on West End. Easy subway access. Building: 755 is a workmanlike Candela coop with limited amenities and just three lines: a northeast-facing corner seven flanked by... [more]
755 West End Avenue #10A
Coop, seven rooms; 3 BR, 2 BA + servants’ quarters
Asks $2,600,000; Maint. $2,766
Traffic: Light (First OH following Board rejection)
Location:
North of prime UWS, on the slope to 96th that marks a weak spot on West End. Easy subway access.
Building:
755 is a workmanlike Candela coop with limited amenities and just three lines: a northeast-facing corner seven flanked by two sixes. You will find no soaring ceilings, white-glove service or grand public spaces here; just solid prewar housing.
Space:
"A" is the feature line, and it's close to 2,000 ft². The side-by-side LR and DR are particularly big, comprising a central entertaining space of well over 600 ft². In the kitchen, the cooking area is tight, but the adjoining pantry/breakfast/storage space provides plenty of extra room. Two bedrooms are ample; the third is rather tight. Closets are reasonable, especially in the MBR. Light is best in the morning, from the east. It's actually pretty good all day, as every window faces out.
Condition:
Bring your architect, designer, contractor and wealthy relatives. #10A needs just about everything, although I think the floors (currently yellowish) and a lot of the stripped woodwork are salvageable.
Potential:
Many apartments in this line have been offered in recent years, so I have played with the floor plan previously. I honestly can't do much with it. In a way, the "A" line's strength - every room facing out - also creates its main weakness: the relationship between the public and private rooms makes it very difficult to create another bedroom that doesn't stick out like a sore thumb. The absence of rear-facing windows may also limit the options for air conditioning.
Widening the kitchen entails sacrificing at least the maid's bathroom, and maybe the whole servant's wing. On the positive side, it's quite easy to create a den/library by dividing the dining room. (For a renovation that implemented these changes - albeit in a taste-specific way - see http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/31990-open-house-report-755-west-end-avenue-6a )
Financial:
Raising the price after a board turn-down seems aggressive, with rates rising and the apartment now empty. Comps suggest that the price was already high. #14A sold last year for $2.495MM. The renovation there showed some age, but mostly needed cosmetic updates. #10A needs a costly overhaul. The reasoning here might be, "We got $2.6MM once; we can get it again." Time will tell.
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West 81st,
Out of curiosity, do you think the buyer for 755 WEA is the same buyer as 240 West 98th? While one is a condo and the other is a coop, they're both sevens around the corner from one another... With that in mind, what's your thinking about the 600K price differential and which do you think is more compelling?
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Response by West81st
over 12 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
rsm321: If you disregard the prices, the buyer pools for the two apartments overlap. At the current ask, however, the most realistic buyer for the Sabrina listing is somebody who absolutely requires a condo. If coops were an option, why would you pay close to $2000/ft² for a condo with that many issues?
As for personal preference, if you offered me my choice of those two listings for the same price, I'd probably take the bigger space, at 755. The $600K differential is partly a function of condition, but it's mostly a condo premium. I get it: lots of people won't touch coops. But in this case, the premium seems awfully large.
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Response by sashae
over 12 years ago
Posts: 8
Member since: Jan 2010
It's apartments like this that totally confound me on the buy-vs-rent calculus. With a 1.8mil mortgage, the carry cost with maintenance is up near $15,000/mo. You can *easily* rent a comparable-or-better apartment for 10k or less in the neighborhood -- I've shopped similar apartments (3/2 classic 7s) in the 7-8k range. How on earth is it logical to carry that apartment at that cost? I'd love to own, but I can't see the finances making sense...
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Response by West81st
over 12 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
sashae: Don't forget the time, expense, risk and hassle of renovating - all in a building you could easily mistake for a nice WEA rental. Although your $7-8K/month number might be a shade low for a well-sized corner seven, the rent-buy math is still totally wacky.
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Response by sashae
over 12 years ago
Posts: 8
Member since: Jan 2010
I'm renting a 2000sqft+ C7 (low floor) for sub 7k on WEA which I agree is abnormal, but I shopped for apartments recently to move to and found a wealth of options in the $7500 range. I may not get /everything/ I want, but it's still half the cost. My wife and I owned our last apartment in Los Angeles pre-bust, and have been holding out on buying here because of the math. It's crazy to look at what your purchase money buys in another crazy expensive market like SF vs what you get here. The rent/buy calculus there is pretty much even +/- 10%, whereas here the math makes zero sense.
Who on earth is buying this stuff? I mean, clearly it's selling but I don't get it.
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Response by bfgross
over 12 years ago
Posts: 247
Member since: Jun 2007
sashae:
Its the greater fool theory, its just that its worked now for about 10 years...
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Response by lovetocook
over 12 years ago
Posts: 171
Member since: Sep 2010
Sas yes maybe looking at it from a financial point of view buying doesn't make sense. But everyone needs a place to live and other factors come into play like a person who needs a C7 for his family and wants to have a place they can call their own and not think about moving every few years because the rent has gone up substantially. The owner can renovate and make the place his own with an upside potential on the value of his apartment. At the end of the day, if someone can afford a C7 apartment, they can afford to decide whether to invest the money in alternative places like the stock market or put it into an apartment that they love. Each to his own.
West 81st,
Out of curiosity, do you think the buyer for 755 WEA is the same buyer as 240 West 98th? While one is a condo and the other is a coop, they're both sevens around the corner from one another... With that in mind, what's your thinking about the 600K price differential and which do you think is more compelling?
rsm321: If you disregard the prices, the buyer pools for the two apartments overlap. At the current ask, however, the most realistic buyer for the Sabrina listing is somebody who absolutely requires a condo. If coops were an option, why would you pay close to $2000/ft² for a condo with that many issues?
As for personal preference, if you offered me my choice of those two listings for the same price, I'd probably take the bigger space, at 755. The $600K differential is partly a function of condition, but it's mostly a condo premium. I get it: lots of people won't touch coops. But in this case, the premium seems awfully large.
It's apartments like this that totally confound me on the buy-vs-rent calculus. With a 1.8mil mortgage, the carry cost with maintenance is up near $15,000/mo. You can *easily* rent a comparable-or-better apartment for 10k or less in the neighborhood -- I've shopped similar apartments (3/2 classic 7s) in the 7-8k range. How on earth is it logical to carry that apartment at that cost? I'd love to own, but I can't see the finances making sense...
sashae: Don't forget the time, expense, risk and hassle of renovating - all in a building you could easily mistake for a nice WEA rental. Although your $7-8K/month number might be a shade low for a well-sized corner seven, the rent-buy math is still totally wacky.
I'm renting a 2000sqft+ C7 (low floor) for sub 7k on WEA which I agree is abnormal, but I shopped for apartments recently to move to and found a wealth of options in the $7500 range. I may not get /everything/ I want, but it's still half the cost. My wife and I owned our last apartment in Los Angeles pre-bust, and have been holding out on buying here because of the math. It's crazy to look at what your purchase money buys in another crazy expensive market like SF vs what you get here. The rent/buy calculus there is pretty much even +/- 10%, whereas here the math makes zero sense.
Who on earth is buying this stuff? I mean, clearly it's selling but I don't get it.
sashae:
Its the greater fool theory, its just that its worked now for about 10 years...
Sas yes maybe looking at it from a financial point of view buying doesn't make sense. But everyone needs a place to live and other factors come into play like a person who needs a C7 for his family and wants to have a place they can call their own and not think about moving every few years because the rent has gone up substantially. The owner can renovate and make the place his own with an upside potential on the value of his apartment. At the end of the day, if someone can afford a C7 apartment, they can afford to decide whether to invest the money in alternative places like the stock market or put it into an apartment that they love. Each to his own.