2 br in midtown east under 1 mil?

what about this one http://streeteasy.com/building/530-east-72-street-new_york/21b

if you dont mind tudor city, there should be inventory in your criteria.

@sipplemc we saw that place, great space and layout, but it's SO far east. tough to rationalize.

@truthskr10- we like Tudor City somewhat, but everything there feels really cramped. we specifically liked 333 east 43rd, but apts 1021 and 821 are both combined studios with odd layouts.

where were you a couple of years ago when I had a 2/2 at 50 SPS? SPS is a block too far east for you, but there should be convert 2s with 1.5 baths (25 and 50 SPS have them in their respective D-lines) over there that you might like.

The boards are picky but the ability to go 50% down is a first step.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Have you looked at this one? http://streeteasy.com/building/319-east-50-street-new_york/7kl
I know it is listed for over a million, but if you are willing to go up to a million, you should (and likely probably are already, so just ignore all of this you already know) look at things priced slightly above that because you never know how much room there is for negotiation in any asking price. I don't know anything about the building (319 E50th) - when we were looking I did not look at anything west of 1st. I did not do exhaustive search just now by any means, but I will keep my eyes open when I get a moment here and there.

so we've seen a few more recently, but no winners. :(

NYC Novice - that looks amazing. we'd be willing and will check that one out! Thank you so much. Please share if you see anymore. It's crazy how things show up one moment and then are gone the next.

@QR - You can make a good case based on data as to why the target unit should be much closer to 1.0 than 1.1. If this is not apparent, then this is where a buyer's broker could be worth their weight in gold. A good broker will be able to see the case on both sides (and there is a case to be made as to why target is perfectly priced as is). All of that aside, at the end of the day, every sale comes down to what seller is willing to accept vs what buyer is willing to pay, all the data in the universe nothwithstanding, so luck and timing are also integral to the process. At the end of the day, you will know it when yoy see it, and please keep us posted. Everyone who read these threads is a real estate junkie and enjoys going through the process with current market participants.

interesting. i appreciate your thoughts a lot. we love our broker but were a little disappointed that his response was "10% reduction is highly unlikely in this market." that said, agree re: it's all about the seller's demands. this weekend will be another series of open houses / viewing appts. i may post what we see and what we think just to keep track and get thoughts from fellow hunters. hope thats ok! any and all feedback helps.

> in this market

The market has changed. You didn't notice it yet because it started yesterday. Mark my statement on the calendar.

Can you share more about what you mean by that Fieldchester?

As for updates: we have seen around 20 apts in the past few days or so and I've contemplated adding thoughts on each in this thread for 'shop with me' sharing.

this one we saw yesterday really stood out as a decent contender: http://streeteasy.com/building/340-east-74-street-new_york/2g -- B/B+ condition with recently renovated kitchen / bath. (my husband and I have been rating that way) and we'd be able to move in with minimal effort. The 2nd bed would make a solid size nursery compared to SO many junior 4s and we like that it already has a door frame on it. Being on the 2nd floor isnt ideal but after spending some time in the building / on the block seeing 2 apts there, it's still SO MUCH quieter than our Gramercy police precinct block / courtyard exposure to smaller buildings patios where hipsters party / play loud music nonstop.

Speaking from personal experience, I can say that a second floor apt on a small street is MUCH quieter than an apt 10 floors higher on an avenue or major busy street. I'd be more concerned about the size of the second BR. Technically its too small to be called a bedroom. And If you guys are using it as a nursery, a child can easily outgrow the space. With a real second bedroom, you'd have more flexibility down the line...

Agree with whitedesert re size of that second bedroom and a child's outgrowing it quickly, but it does look like it gets nice light for being on 2nd floor, and being able to move in without having to renovate is obviously a real plus.

Don't forget that 74th between 1st and 2nd is quite a schlepp to the train at 77th (or 68th) and Lexington. Not to mention that the quality of life on the 6 train during rush hour has been outlawed by the Geneva convention.

The station at 72nd and 2nd is supposed to open in another 18 months.

It's got a fair amount of closet/storage space, which I think matters even more than a couple of extra feet width in the second bedroom. If you close off the second entrance to the kitchen you could put up a wall of shelves for toys/books. Storage in the built ins, with a changing pad and supplies in some sort of storage system above the built ins. Three colorfully painted narrow cubed bookshelf units to put labelled bins in for clothes and other stuff. You may need to share the dining space with a bigger toy or two during the toddler/preschool years, but then toys get smaller, or at least can go in storage bins in a closet. School gets mixed reviews, but is better than most (and I think they may have done something about the overcrowding in the past few years. It's close to John Jay, which has a swimming pool, and not that far from Carl Schurz and Asphalt Green. Not my favorite neighborhood, but the dining options have been improving, and it's a solid choice for families. A small two bedroom for under $1m will likely have its own set of issues.

Agree with whitedesert that the "2nd bedroom" doesn't appear to be of sufficient size to be so labeled, and therefore the board may not approve closing off the entry to the kitchen area as Bburg suggests. As configured, this is a 1BR with an eat-in kitchen.

Bburg, which is your favorite neighborhood?

Why wouldn't the board agree? An office doesn't need an entry to the kitchen. I've never heard of such a requirement.

Many of the co-ops of this ilk are not as strict as some of the others, although I have no personal experience with this building. Many Jr4s are configured similarly, as the OP noted the room is often even smaller, and that room is frequently closed off to make a "bedroom."

Bburg, what ilk co-op suits your preferences?

Just closed today as the listing agent on a property at 73rd and 1st. As a west-sider, I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised by the neighborhood -- yes, it's a schlep to the 6 (and the 6 isn't that great a train once you get there) but the crosstown bus at 72nd is pretty good, and the retail and restaurant options are markedly better than in my neighborhood (West 90s). Also, as NWT pointed out, the Second Avenue subway is coming.

ali r.
{(usually) downtown broker}

I think reason coop may not allow wall between converted BR and kitchen is because it would cut off ventilation from the kitchen. I've seen people get around that by "opening the kitchen" to the living room, which would require significant renovation and likely not worth the effort....

@whitedesert: A broker on their board told us that we could do the wall -- that they're done ALL the time. so I'm not sure about that ventilation concern. There are lots of enclosed kitchens that only have 1 side open anyway.

@Bburg - appreciate the thoughts on how to set it up. when we finally find a place, i hope you'll weigh in with thoughts - you clearly have an eye for it. :)

General update:

Overall, after thinking through it extensively and seeing lots of others, we've decided we think the 340 e 74th st is overpriced. It was sold for 775k just last year. The current seller moved in just in september and did no work except paint, and then listed it for 900k, dropping it to 875 when she realized how unrealistic that was. It's still way overpriced though and we've realized the bathroom needs to be redone and that the molding is inconsistent in the bedroom. Small things but enough to realize that we maybe can do better for our 1M budget. So we're going to try to find a 'truer' 2 bedroom; ideally with a 2nd half bath or washer dryer. Something we can either put some effort and $ into to really update and add value to or something thats beautifully re-done and move in ready but more competitively priced.

currently really excited to see:

http://streeteasy.com/building/360-east-72-street-new_york/b606

http://streeteasy.com/building/310-east-70-street-new_york/3d

http://streeteasy.com/building/137-east-66-street-new_york/8c - weirdest looking apt ever; total gut reno, may still be overpriced. i'm not sure.

also...also, we were really upset to find out that these 2 which we loved and thought maybe we could bid low on or extend our budget are both off the market but not updated as such:

http://streeteasy.com/building/325-east-57-street-new_york/15d

http://streeteasy.com/building/20-sutton-place-south-new_york

wonder why that happens?

@QR - Re unavailable listings not updated as such, our experience was that some sellers did not continue to show their units when a contract was pending (i.e., a contract had been sent out but not yet signed by both parties pending due diligence). Others with far more experience can speak to what the average period of due diligence is, but let's say for discussion sake that the norm is 7 days. If that is what is going on with listings that are unavailable but not updated as such, I would watch them to see if they go into contract shortly after your inquiry. If they do not go into contract shortly after your inquiry, the listing agent might then call your broker back to say that unit is available again.
To your comments re what is overpriced, hearing your thoughts on what is "overpriced" is part of what makes watching your hunt so interesting. After looking long enough, we gave up all on all notions of what others would be willing to pay and just went with what it was worth to us to live in a very specific location. I am guessing that very few market participants would pay what we ultimately have for our apartment, but it is worth every penny to us. We do not plan on selling our unit anytime soon, if ever. Had we not been fully committed to keeping the same residence in New York for the indefinite future, we would have continued renting. If you think you are going to move again in a few years such that you are really focused on resale value, you might want to consider renting until you are ready to commit to one unit on an indefinite basis. That is just my two cents, but there are others on here with far more experience who may also chime in, and I defer to them. My hope is that Bburg will dust off her skills and assist you with your search because she has an eye for more than interior design; she can really analyze comps and if she puts her mind to it, if there is a good investment to be had in your segment, she is a poster who would be able to find it for you. Thank you for sharing and I hope you continue to keep us posted.

I totally second NYC Novice's assessment. First, the idea of rethinking your plan to buy with a short-time line for resale. The market is exceedingly hot right now so you will be paying top dollar. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, I bought in 2008 before the crash, but if you do have a short time line for retaining the property it is very possible that the market will turn around and you will end up having to sell for less than you paid for the apartment (especially on a net basis after transaction costs). Is your plan to stay in the city when your child goes to school? If not than you will probably want to move after six years or so, regardless of the state of the real estate market. What happens if you have a second child. I don't necessarily buy in to the current "every kid must have their own bedroom" philosophy but some New York bedrooms really are too small for two kids, especially when one needs to be in a crib. (When they get older bunk beds can always be squeezed in.) When you rent you can always move (at least when your lease is up). Ownership is not that flexible, especially if optimizing return on investment is important to you.

My second point of concurrence with NYC Novice regards the guidance of Bburg. When it comes to real estate, values, potential of a property, and yes, interior design, she is as much a natural as LeBron James is to basketball. Unfortunately for the industry she has chosen to maintain amateur status but take any advice you can get from her trustworthy and extremely well informed. There will be a lot of disagreement on this but people also hate the Yankees because they are always (this season and those immediately past excluded) winners.

Finally, NWT, with all due respect and I do respect you immensely, do you really believe the Second Avenue Subway will be open in 18 months. Maybe 2018, but even that would be suspect. I am standing by my initial thoughts that, having started hearing from AARP just a few years ago, I will never ride the SAS without the benefit of a reduced rate
Senior Metro Card. Only hearing about this project my whole life, hell my mother said she heard about it her whole life and she was born during WWI, makes me a little skeptical about its coming to fruition, regardless of how many pictures of tunnels I see.

I wouldn't say I "believe" it will open by December 2016 as the MTA says. I'll stick with "supposed to" open.

We aren't interested in renting. As I've said we chose to pass on 340 e 74 apt 2g knowing it wouldn't last us that long. That said I'm not sure why there's this extreme obsession with investment property. I bought post crash in 2008 and probably still won't make much on my 1 br but it's been 8 years and I've built credit, shielded my income from taxes to some extent, and all for far lower monthly maintenance and mortgage cost than renting would have been. While moving is a costly inconvenience, I'm not sure why everything needs to be a forever apt. Especially when every five years or so our needs and financial situation seems to level up. That said, I'd love a place that could be great for the foreseeable future so we are thinking we will stretch to the top edge of our budget and stay patient until an opportunity shows itself.

Congratulations on building credit.

i assume you're mocking me @fieldschester but given that I was just out of college when I bought, so building credit wasn't insignificant. I'm still not sure how much my current place will go for, but I got it 12% below ask so the bar is pretty low. i'll at least break even if not make some profit. units of the same size in the building to be hovering around 500-600k so I should do fine.

"I bought post crash in 2008 and probably still won't make much money..." You're not looking post-crash now. With a short or shortish-term time frame timing is everything and is often just a matter of luck. Bad or good.

I agree with Bburg, as they always say in real estate: Timing, Timing, Timing.

stick w/ 1BR's next to a studio , excellent way to purchase at fair value and expand at a low $/sf

updates...

1. we've upped our budget. Are now open to 1.15 or even 1.2. We sort of internalized the tough feedback here (which was sort of uniquely SE cliche but also overlapped unmistakeably with that of our parents and friends re: stretching to buy a longer term place and we can make that work.

2. We fell for http://streeteasy.com/building/360-east-72-street-new_york/b606 in a big way only to find out it had been scooped by an all cash buyer before we could even get a bid mobilized. We were a little surprised they weren't going to urge us to bid up higher, but all good. The lobby had a sort of retirement home quality (not an ageist, but 4 wheelchairs always in the lobby + water feature and woodland murals + random oil portraits = full on sort of hilarious eccentric weirdness. On some level I think they're self aware because the brokers (whom we found out are in fact a semi stealth married couple!!) repeated 3x that it was going to be updated in upcoming assessments. So that $1300 holy grail maintenance may be jumping up at least 100$ / month indefinitely.... Also the mega building plans to add a gym for its 400+ units. Smart, but likely to be highly trafficked and therefore a costly waterfall of assessments plus possible access fee? Oh well. Also, SE helped us unearth that the 'recent reno' was actually back in 2005, so there was some odd time / price increases happening. Over it. Also, my husband was really troubled by the 'baby balcony' -- that is that the would be 2nd bedroom had doors on every wall and that the only way to access the balcony was via the baby's room. Inevitable jokes about a baby w/ a wicked nightlife rappelling off the 6th floor.

3. We made it to about 11 open houses. Some interesting stuff but nothing really that felt plausible. I can share thoughts here if anyone is interested.

Hey found this listing. You may like. Good sized 2 beds with beautiful living room. It may be Far East but for the price not bad... http://streeteasy.com/building/439-east-51-street-new_york/5c

saw that one, UWSboy. It's really odd in person. Bedrooms are all dark enclosed views -- walls like 5 feet away from windows. and the kitchen is super narrow and claustrophobic. Layout has potential but hard to justify zero views / minimal light and being suuuuper far east. the same unit on 6 is also for sale. and another in the same building i think we saw all of them at once. there is the potential to put a W/D in which was neat, but it would need to go in the kitchen where there is already limited cabinet space. overall, not interested in the building i think. thank you for looking with me though!

http://streeteasy.com/building/sutton-east/10c saw this one before it got listed and it's not anything close to a true 2 bedroom. Really didn't think that the price made much sense.

QR: Same building and more like what you're looking for. Unfortunately above your price range. In this market a million dollars doesn't buy a true 2 bedroom in a doorman building in most areas of Manhattan below 96th Street, unless you look at landlease buildings. Best of luck in your search and let us know how it ultimately turns out.

http://streeteasy.com/building/sutton-east/8f

thanks, RealEstateNY - that apt is pretty much exactly what we're looking for. As I mentioned above, we recently upped our budget realizing we may not be able to find what we wanted within it. I'll definitely check this out. The washer dryer + second bathroom make this very interesting. I wish it was closer to 1.1 or 1.2 or had a lower maintenance, but it's absolutely worth checking out.

QR: Let us know what you think of the apartment and building. Good luck.

I feel much better about your prospects with the increased budget! I am loving watching your search because you are going through all the phases that we went through. At one point, we decided to look at "true 2BR" units and found that at that time (two years ago), the going price for an unrenovated true 2BR in buildings we liked was around $1,250,000. We realized that to customize any unit we saw to our taste we were looking at total outlay of $1,500,000. We actually bid up one listed renovated unit to that price point, but ultimately lost the unit in bidding war. Again, so fun to watch your search.

Super interested in this among a group of 6 very mediocre apts with various issues and strengths. Needs a lot of TLC (150k+ gut reno) but has huge potential. http://streeteasy.com/nyc/Sale/1179980

super cute.

So both initial budget and originally contemplated neighborhood have gone out the window. I love it, and your search has become that much more interesting. If UWS is feasible workwise, you might want to start a new thread dedicated with current parameters because some of the most knowledgeable posters (if not all of them) appear to live on UWS (front_porch, NWT, alanhart, w81, nyc10023).

And that space in that neighborhood at that price would seem well worth the renovation commitment. I am excited for you. I love midtown east, but prefer UWS.

Wait, YOU like the UWS? I thought that was New2me.

@fieldschester - Glad you are back from your vacation; it was awfully quiet here while you were away. I am sure you already know this, but unlike New2me, we replaced every last inch of our prewar bathroom; ripped out tub and put in walk-in shower with custom frameless tempered glass door; replaced every last fixture with new Grohe; subway tile ripped out and replaced with floor to ceiling 27X16" Ferroker. Not even close to New2me: http://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/39379-prewar-bathroom-tile-restoration.

hi all, it's me QR with a new account so i can reset all searches and hidden buildings now that my search parameters have shifted a bit.

Hi taxibutton/QR - I am taking my habitual streeteasy-talk-water-cooler break and thought I would check in re your search. This linked thread is years old, but gives an idea of how helpful nyc10023 can be. I am still hoping she and a few other posters will come out of retirement to assist you with your search. http://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/9859-best-deal-for-2br-on-uws (thread even mentions a unit in 176 West 87th that was on the market a few years back). Either way, continued good luck in your search, and even if you get tired of posting updates, I hope you will let us know what you end up with when all is over and you are settled in whatever unit you choose.

thanks for checking in, NYC Novice! the UWS apt turned out to be a little bit of a dream that didnt come true-- complicated but will be interested to see how far above ask it goes for. In summary, it's too small and too much work for the value we'd be able to create. I'm relieved to not have to tackle a massive gut reno and switching kitchen and bath etc.

I feel like we're seeming unfocused, but in reality we're just trying to stay open and align budgets and neighborhood parameters to whats realistic. Short form: we're considering bidding on an apt but I have mixed feelings. Everyone else (husband, broker, family) is all go so I'm the hold up. Would appreciate thoughts...

http://streeteasy.com/building/160-east-65-street-new_york/23e

I'm thinking I'll start a new thread because this one has become unruly and I think we've changed our focus a little.

Pros: 1) Decent amount of space for a 1BR.
2) Windowed kitchen.
3) Pretty good views, though if you separate the dining area, you lose the best of it.
4) Building tower's setback from street (as well as neighboring buildings') open up and improve views up/down avenue and side streets.
Cons: 1) Kitchen and finishes are dated and will need replacing.
2) If you're dying for a 2BR, the alcove dining area would not make a good bedroom -- too narrow, and proportionally too much wall devoted to windows (though it does have it's own air handler).
3) Based on the floorplan shown, the half bath looks and feels like it's part of the kitchen, not a hallway. I'd prefer some separation. (compare with the 26F floorplan, which, to me, is a better layout.
4) Door to the full bath would make more sense opening onto the BR, not the front hallway. Of course, if you want to convert the alcove to a BR for anybody other than an infant or an intimate friend, it has to be off the hall.