To those that laughed at DOW going to 11,000

amazing what joy people are taking in the downfall of the economy. people on here are absolutely gleeful about the stock market, people getting fired, the real estate market. odd.

I know, it doesn't make sense, why would you be happy that you were right that our economy is going into the crapper?

Because himwhoknows, zizizi and others who predicted this have either:

1. averted loss of assets by overweighting to cash

2. profited by taking a reasonable short position

and, of course, silencing all the nay-sayers who thought otherwise and as a result, who put themselves in risky positions to lose their assets by not believing our warnings.

MMAfia- As many people know I'm very worried about the economy(bear on housing and economy). Mainly because despite everyone trying to compare it to other historical downturns you can't. This is unusual and uncharted waters. Never in the history of markets can anyone find a similar problem to compare it with, that's what makes me worried.

I have passed the point about debating Manhattan real estate (although I still believe in steep declines) and I'm greatly concerned about the economy and unemployment. These factors of-course will drive RE prices down, however it's the long term out look that troubles me and should also worry others.

I take no joy in the declines and wish everyone the best of luck weathering this financial storm. Losing your job just sinks and is nothing to laugh about.

But there is a chance STILL... to those nay-sayers who insist that Manhattan will continue to appreciate.

Don't be foolish and put yourselves in risky positions to lose your assets. Plan accordingly, reduce risk, and perhaps, even profit from the decline.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED MANY TIMES BEFORE. IF YOU DON'T LISTEN, YOU HAVE ONLY YOURSELF TO BLAME.

It's not that most of us are happy. Very contrary. I think many of us are angry. Myself, at least. I've been saying since 2004 that this expansion was not sustainable, and I've been laughed at regularly. Now, I'm not really happy that the economy is going down the shitter, but there is something within me that has major cognitive dissonance issues. Major. I'm very liberal, my husband is very well paid (not in banking or related area) and many of our close friends ARE in banking or related areas, and not so young so they are losing their retirement money. It's just a major cluster....

aboutready- I hope your friends planned for a rainy day. Not to sound like a jerk but I assume that if they were in banking they planned to survive a downturn.( they made alot of money over the years ). I know that many have not taken their own recommendations and this is hitting them hard. I wish your friends the best of luck and a quick recovery.

"Because himwhoknows, zizizi and others who predicted this have either:

1. averted loss of assets by overweighting to cash

2. profited by taking a reasonable short position

and, of course, silencing all the nay-sayers who thought otherwise and as a result, who put themselves in risky positions to lose their assets by not believing our warnings."

This is a truly stunning post. First of all he/she confirms that he's happy about this. Second, he informs us that at least some of his happiness is due to other people, people he presumably doesn't even know, made money off the situation (presumably all the while ignoring how bad it is for so many, including probably himself and many friends and relatives). Third, he actually has no shame and admits, that he takes joy and thus apparently is perfectly willing for the US to collapse so that he basically can say I told you so, or maybe they told you so.

This is what we are dealing with here.

ccdevi, you just described Jamie Dimon's takeover of Bear Stearns.

Bravo!

well, um, no, wrong/lie per usual.

ccdevil,

not that stunning. this is super old news. we've warned people here MANY MANY months ago, pleaded, told them to strategize accordingly, did what we could to educate.

key is, it's STILL NOT TOO LATE. people shouldn't listen to ccedevil, petrfitz and the other perma-bulls. if they do, they put themselves at risk.

in fact, ccdevil, petrfitz and the like- you should be guilty for MISLEADING and encouraging people to go the wrong direction!

I am not sure what this proves, since many (steve) had been touting equities as a better asset class than real estate, and were sure they could still get 10% real returns going forward just because that is the retrun over a certain time period in the past.

Stagflation is upon us. There is no escape from it.

Long Energy and Commodities, short Financials

http://www.vitaltrends.info/economy/how-to-survive-stagflation.html

"had been touting equities as a better asset class than real estate, and were sure they could still get 10% real returns going forward just because that is the retrun over a certain time period in the past."

evillager, you are confusing investment real estate and owner-occupied real estate. To the best of my knowledge there is no dividend paid on owner-occupied real estate, and the price cannot increase faster than incomes and leverage will allow it to. The only benefit you gain from owning the place you live is not renting a place to live. Therefore, in economic terms that is its output value, and what it should cost.

But you work for a hedge fund, so perhaps you know better than I.

"not that stunning. this is super old news. we've warned people here MANY MANY months ago"

So what? If you warned someone not to go into central park at night, and they did and were raped and killed, would you be happy about it? indifferent? Now thats an absurd, extreme example but in some respects what you're doing here is even sillier. The implosion of the economy is/would likely be quite a bad thing for you or persons you count as friends or loved ones.

"people shouldn't listen to ccedevil, petrfitz and the other perma-bulls. if they do, they put themselves at risk. in fact, ccdevil, petrfitz and the like- you should be guilty for MISLEADING and encouraging people to go the wrong direction"

more lies. please link one thread where I've encouraged someone to buy. I've said many times I likely wouldn't buy in this market.

steve, stop trying to confuse the issue and backpedal. in another discussion, you said you would get 10% real returns from stocks (and even said you were up 60% because of your investment in "brazil"). my point is that stocks - just like real estate - can be a risky asset class, and that the market was flat from 1968-1982, and we could certainly see a market like that again in the future. oh, and right now real returns on treasuries - a risk-free asset - is zero.

this doesn't mean that real estate is automatically a good investment. I just think you should be more realistic about your investment alternatives when making the statements you make, such as the infamous "real estate is always a bad investment".

sorry about the multiple posts. I think I'm done for today anyway :)

No evillager, I'm not trying to confuse the issue, nor am I confusing it. Over time, investment real estate and stocks, having similar risks though different volatility, will have the same returns. But owner-occupied real estate does not. It is simply a capitalized expense.

I did actually make 60% last year and I have, in varying asset classes (including real estate), made better than hedge fund performance over the past 15 or so years. Do I make it every year? No. Do I expect a smooth ride? No. Will I make it this year? Unlikely, unless things change drastically. But owner-occupied real estate is NOT an investment, and it shouldn't be looked at as such. It is merely a capitalized expense.

When Shiller did his research on property prices in the US, there were only 3 times that prices went up dramatically, and only twice in real terms: after WWII, when they went up in real terms after having been depressed since 1929, during the 70's when the increase was due to inflation, and since 2000, which was due to infinite leverage, negative real interest rates, and no credit-writing standards. In other words, the increase was fake, and it's now being taken back.

Investment real estate is a different matter entirely. Someone pays you to live there, so you do have a return. Just right now might not be the time to dip your toe in that water.

evillager, the website is doing the multiple posts, not you.

ccdevi are you going to blame this on Obama's tax plan? Face it this horrible economy was created by the failed policies of the Republicans over the last 7 years.

I find it hilarious that pople like you are trying to say that Obama will ruin the economy when you guys have already crushed it.

evillager - i agree with you Steve is back pedaling. His point was that Brazilian crap equities is a better investment than owning real estate.

Brazil has been doing good this year though. Check out the ETF fund EWZ.
Their economy is in much better shape than ours.

"His point was that Brazilian crap equities is a better investment than owning real estate."

Nope. My point was that equities outperform owner-occupied real estate, which doesn't perform. Investment real estate is a different matter, but like all investments it depends on the price you pay.

But you don't "own" your real estate holdings, no matter how much you think they're worth, until you pay off your mortgage. I contend that most people confuse owning with owing.

As for the Wall Streeters, they used to say "never hold a mortgage". At least they said that back in the early 90's when the RE market was bad and job security was low.

80s, that's pretty silly. Does KKR "own" a company when it does an LBO? Of course it does.

i think that this stock market crash is Clinton's fault. Either him or the gays. possibly the illegals.

evillager: the rules for property are different than the rules for corporations. Your mortgaged property is encumbered and cannot be sold or transfered until you satisfy the mortgage. Why do people compare real estate to stocks? They are different asset classes with different markets, risks, rules, etc...

what in the world are you claiming? it sounds like you are saying that you have to pay your mortgage off completely before selling your place, when of course you can use your proceeds from the sale to settle the mortgage. the fact that you can often leave debt in place at a corporation when you transfer ownership is irrelevant.

let's put it a different way: did harry macklowe own the gm building?

you can also withdraw cash from your home's equity even when the mortgage is not paid off.

I think that 80sman just wants to make a ridiculous statement and try to look smart. With his logic you could say that cash isnt worth anything because it is no longer backed by gold.

"So what? If you warned someone not to go into central park at night, and they did and were raped and killed, would you be happy about it? indifferent?"

ccdevil, you're a sick person to even type that here.

BOTTOM LINE: we tried to educate people here, tell them to prepare and we were ridiculed. BUT, it's not too late. As we know, real estate is illiquid unlike the stock market, and thus those who have and/or thinking about owning real estate should prepare accordingly and stop arguing with us.

Unless your time horizon is decades+ long, you should act appropriately to reduce risk. For example, if you are a first time buyer thinking about taking a plunge, you should seriously reconsider renting for a year or two. Or if you are a seller who needs the cash and needs to move, you should price AGGRESSIVELY and unload your property as quickly as possible.

wow MMAfia you must be brilliant to understand that the country is in for tough economic times. I dont think that anyone else besides you and Steve understood that at all.

We all benefit from the constant posts from you and Steve telling us that there is possible way that anyone could make any money in the current real estate market. You are such a genius you have convinced us all that there are no opportunities in RE and shouldnt even bother trying.

Your constant naysaying is totally not obvious to anyone and is so useful to us. We owe you our lives.

petrfitz, you always say it's possible in this market to make money, but don't tell us how. Can you humor us please and let us know?

Owning property is not the same as owning a share of a public company. And holding a mortgage is not the same as holding property free and clear. We tell people they own their home when they have title although there are substantial outstanding risks and obligations. For instance, miss some mortgage payments and you can be foreclosed upon. Basic financial sense is that you don't own anything you haven't fully paid for. What you have is a 'leveraged asset' which is, of course, financial mumbo-jumbo for 'we hope it goes up so we can sell it'.

RE as an investment asset class has already been exploited and profits were made (in U.S and Europe). Go try and find the next bubble.

Crude made new highs today. $140.
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B73B58469%2D0BF8%2D4212%2DA5DA%2DC832D5696932%7D&siteid=mktw

well - here's just a few examples off the top of my head -

1 - there are several major rezoning in initiatives going on through out the city, the rezoning will double the buildable FAR of several properties overnight. Buying one of these properties before rezoning essentially doubles your money overnight.

2 - find a property on foreclosure or tax sale.

3 - buy a multiple unit property and rent it out.

4 - personal mortgages - we have several of these going on great deal no defaults because you can be selective.

5 - the soft market means that a buyer could come in buy multiple properties at softer prices, rent them, sit on them for a few years and sell when the market recovers. Owning investment property opens up all sort of tax deductions, rebates, etc.

6 - look at properties where you could make an argument to the city on lowering property taxes. Push the reductions through and your property value increases. (i have done this in the past and flipped property at a profit)

7 - buy a whole building that contains several rent controlled units. Often these buildings are sold at lower than market rates. Notify tenants that you plan to move into the building as your primary residence. Move tenants out, live in for a bit, then return to market rates. Capture the $500K tax free exemption when you sell.

Steve there is opportunity in every market. There is greater opportunity in times of change or turmoil.

perfitz, U.S. cash isn't worth anything. It's fiat currency. It only has value because the government says so. It seems like homeowners are trying to implement a fiat system of home prices. I'm interested in seeing how it works out.

perfitz, withdrawing from your home's equity is another fiat system of value. Your bank says your house is worth 'x'. And just because they say so, it is. The effectiveness of this method is evidenced in the huge write-downs going on at all of the lenders.

petrfitz, we know tall of that. Show us a specific example of where to make money, not just the theory behind it.

Because:

1) Everybody already knows about the rezonings, and lots of them are in areas poorly served by mass transit. Unless you can show me a good one.

2) Not a lot of those on the market in Manhattan.

3) Show me one, because at today's prices the rent roll will not meet your costs.

4) not interested.

5) show me one, because in my opinion property will be worth less in 5 years than it is now.

6) Unlikely given the falling tax basis that NYC is going to reduce anybody's taxes anytime soon. I think they're going up.

7) You have a multi-year lawsuit on your hands, and there is a criminal penalty for not living in the place for (I think it's 5) consecutive years after you do it.

petrfitz, you're joking on some of these, right? Rezoning will double your money overnight? Buy a multi-unit residence and rent it out? Evict rent-controlled tenants and sell the building? What about Mega Millions? Buy 235347825 tickets and you're golden, right?

petrfitz: That's a pretty good list. Obviously, it's possible to poke holes in each item, but they all can work in the right circumstances. I would note, with regard to #1, that if a rezoning doubles supply, it is likely to exert some downward pressure on the "P" part of the P*Q valuation formula.

petrfitz you really are a jackass, are you going to post about Obama in every thread notwithstanding that people are talking about something else. And then there's Mafia who's so dumb he writes like you and I are on the same team. And of course he won't address my point, he just keeps saying the same thing over and over. Yes you warned people (as if, I'm warning people about global warming), so apparently then it makes sense to root for a depression. Some really stupid people on this board.

Petrfitz,
1 - You do realize that most of that land isn't vacant, right? Or are you just talking about selling air rights?
2 - Good suggestion, not for beginners though, and not a lot of pickings unless you want to invest in shit areas
3- Best suggestion yet
4-What?
5- Could do this but you wouldn't make bank unless rents went up a lot during that time period. Investment property is tied directly to the income it produces.
6 - I can't imagine how you could make any money on this, but more power to you I guess.
7 - I guess you don't read the news much. Someone is trying to do this in the EV/LES and there is massive resistance despite the fact that they have shown all sorts of plans etc to how they would use it as a single family residence. You want to try it, be my guest. I hope you have your lawyer team on speed dial.

So yeah, you can do OK if you buy a multifamily building provided you don't overpay for it, but that seems to be about the only "tip" that is borderline useful.

Pete, I had to laugh at your #5. After months of shouting yourself hoarse on Curbed about how prices in the city are up versus last year, I like how you nonchalantly lead off with "the soft market..." Gotta be more consistent if you want to be a cyber demagogue.

Steve you are an ass. All you do is naysay. Where does that get you? No where. You asked for examples and they are all valid examples. If making money was easy or certain then everyone would be rich.

To point 1 - if you werent naysaying you could have bought one of these properties. Who cares if properties are far from mass transit? The current value of the properties doubles. i.e. a property has 5000 sq ft of buildable at a discounted market rate of $150 per, rezoning makes it 10000 sq ft of buildable at $150 per. Location to mass transit has no effect.

3 - you think that all landlords are taking a loss? I have 4 buildings some of them purchased recently. Every unit rented and rented for well above my costs.

5 - its your opinion and you could be wrong. Very wrong.

6 - i have done it. recently.

7 - precident was set. court ruling in place. http://curbed.com/archives/2008/06/04/lengthy_east_village_mansion_battle_ends_almost.php someone else dealt with the lawsuit - the rest of us can ride on this precent.

Just because it is something that you have no interest in or want to do doesnt mean its not a way to make money.

West 81st - in regard to your comments about more units pushing prices downward, it is actually the opposite. Mos tof these rezonings are happening because neighborhoods are being subject to over building. For example the CB3 197a rezoming is a contextual downward zoning for most of the neighborhood - lessening buildable in most areas. There are however several blocks that are being upzoned. The net is significantly less buildable over the neighborhood. I believe this makes the extra buldable in those few blocks even more valuable.

East Cider - you are confused. The market as a whole has been up in Manhattan over the past year. I meant that there is a small minority of sellers that are underpressure to sell. These are the opportunities I referred to. I did not mean the entire market is soft - more that there are needles in the haystack that you can find at softer prices.

Here is an example of a great property where you could move out RC tenants by making it your primary then returning to market rates after 5 years.

http://www.brownharrisstevens.com/detail.aspx?id=769571

Too much picking around for needles in a haystack can leave you with a bloody hand, Pete. But good luck.

oh ok so you wanted me to give you ideas that could make money in today's real estate market that 1 - you want to do, 2 - that won't take any work or risk, and 3 - that Steve approves.

I guess it would be much easier not trying or doing anything difficult and just stay here on this board and naysay every possible opportunity. Since you are not going to try might as well try to convince everyone else not to try.

to CCDEVI- my bad, I had you confused with Malraux.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/2651-where-are-all-the-idiots-who-made-the-2007-doomsday-predictions

We are not idiots.

yes you are MMAfia. Do you really think that you are a contrarian genius by saying that times are going to be tough? Do you really think that no one else knows that our economy is in the tank?

Its easy to sit there and state the obvious. The smart ones are the guys who are figuring out how to make money in this market when the chicken littles like yourself are sitting with the hands up their asses.

MMAfia YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED MANY TIMES BEFORE. IF YOU DON'T LISTEN, YOU HAVE ONLY YOURSELF TO BLAME.

MMafia thats not nice to threaten people. Your people should know after you were prosecuted by Rudy Giliani for the illegal mob activities in the 1990s.

petrfitz, there's a difference between naysaying and poking the more obvious holes in your plans here. Investing $3.75m in that UWS townhouse, going through all those evictions (and you won't be "riding" any precedent - those tenants will not let you go that easily), waiting 5 years and living in a place you probably won't really enjoy (unless you renovate to truly make it a one-family home, which costs you even more, especially if you plan on re-converting it to multi-unit when you sell down the road) is quite costly, not to mention exceedingly risky. More to the point, I don't see this as an opportunity particular to this "soft market" as you call it, which is what the list you put together was ostensibly meant to identify. How is this a different opportunity, unique to this market? The rezoning idea makes more sense, but I think you grossly underestimate what having nearby trains does for property value.

bjw you are not poking holes. you are saying that you dont want to do the work and invest the time to do the evictions. It can be done and is being done. I agree its not easy.

you oculd move into that place and pretty much immediately combine all the market rate units creating a Phat place to live in while you are in the process of moving out the non market units. Exactly what the guy in the Est Village is doing.

Also its your problem that you dont "see" any opportunity in this market. Myself and alot of others do see opportunity in this market and some will make fortunes.

notice how quite Steve is when a thread is not talking all doom and gloom. He has nothing positive to say or cant add anything to an "opportunities" conversation.

I be that instead of trying to think of opportunities he is racking his brain and googling trying to find flaws in my opportunities.

petrfitz, don't patronize. I never claimed to see "no" opportunities in the current market - there almost always are, in any market, and I think even Steve would admit to that. My point was/is that your list of "opportunities" is quick and dirty, and in most cases, those are investments that would be made by already wealthy individuals as they could afford to lose that kind of money. The renting out a multi-unit property can be a great investment, but it's so trite and simple that it's no better advice than telling someone to buy a lotto ticket.

bjw says "The renting out a multi-unit property can be a great investment, but it's so trite and simple that it's no better advice than telling someone to buy a lotto ticket."

Have you ever put any effort into looking at financing and the economics of purchasing a multi-family unit? It is not as difficult to do it. It is risky but is definitely achievable for most people willing to put a little time into finding a property and figuring out how to finance it.

Just because you dont know how to do it doesnt mean that it is "trite" or unachievable. People who are rich do it all the time.

Would you rather me have supplied you with a list of easy to do and none risky opportunities?

LOL! I gotta hand it to petrfitz. This quote is probably one of the most sense he made: "If making money was easy or certain then everyone would be rich." Certainly, his methods border on ruthlessness, but you can't fault the guy for being so driven that he'll get down and dirty.

What I'd like to know is how you plan to make profit out of the property you are trying to unload right now, petrfitz?

petrfitz,

"yes you are MMAfia. Do you really think that you are a contrarian genius by saying that times are going to be tough? Do you really think that no one else knows that our economy is in the tank?"

Oh of course NOW petrfitz, it's SOOOO obvious right?

That was not the case last year, BEFORE you showed up here. Nor was that the case the year before last year when we started telling people to prepare and restructure their assets.

In fact, even THIS YEAR we were being ridiculed as per this thread:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/2651-where-are-all-the-idiots-who-made-the-2007-doomsday-predictions

Take your Monday Football Quarterbacking back to the gutter along with you vulgar language. We are just trying to help people here and educate them so that they can make prudent decisions going forward.

Meanwhile, you insist on trying to find "needles in a haystack" opportunities which can be very risky given what (is now SOOO obvious).

You, petrfitz, should STOP pointing people in the wrong direction. I was wrong to include ccdevi with you, and I owned up to that mistake.

The properties I am currently selling I have owned for 5 years and have more than doubled in value.

I think that your question should be "how do you make a profit on the properties that you are buying now?"

For me that is a simple answer that doesnt apply to everyone. Because I have been investing over time I have a lot of equity built up. When I sell a property in most cases I am rolling that money into a new property. I can use the cash equity of my sold properties as a lever to get a better deal on the new property. i.e. I have cash and can close immediately but the guy who is outbidding me by $50 or $100K has to go through financing and will take a while to close. A lot of sellers in this market would settle for a few less bucks to go with a quick and certain close.

petrfitz, you're quite a number! I never said I don't know anything about it. My parents made quite a bit of money this way, and I spent a LONG time looking at Brooklyn brownstones to do that with, but it's not as easy as just pronouncing the words. Most properties I looked at were not worth it, though that doesn't mean it's not a good idea. The most accurate thing you noted was the "putting the time into finding a property and figuring out how to finance it." Your answers were "off the top of your head," true, but I don't think you really answered stevejhx's question to the point, yet you all but put a QED after your post.

so MMAfia you say you are "helping" people by instructing them that there are no possible opportunities in RE and to not even bother to try? Wow what great help. You are a saint.

You also state that no one knew that real estate was in trouble last year? You mean to say that after a 5 year run of the greatest increase in home value, record appreciations, and millions of people becoming RE millionaires that YOU and Steve were the only ones saying "hold a second I think that there may be a real estate bubble forming?"

And you claim that you can give advice to people to make prudent decisions and that you shouldnt have to take any risk or hard work to make RE money? Who is the fool there. Any opportunity requires risk and hard work.

You also call me a "Monday Football Quarterback" but I am the one who 1 - currently owns real estate, and is currently buying real estate. I am in the game and playing hard. How about you? What do you own and are you buying? If you are not then you are the eptiome of the "Monday Football Quarterback"

MMAfia and BJW2103 you both got SERVED, you lazy punk asses.

Well, I guess the real question is will you be able to unload "these properties" in this economy? It's not a single property, they're actually multiple properties, right? Just making sure this is not an exaggeration again. And how long have they been in the market? I'm just trying to gauge how you're gonna proceed with all the grand plans if you'll have problems unloading them.

two properties already in contract.

Thank-you Petrfitz, People like Steve and Mafia need to in someway show the rest of us how they are right and anyone who has attained some kind of wealth through buy and hold real estate are fools. Jealousy and low self esteem come to mind. How could anyone want to be right that badly and be happy when the market falls 300 points, only to tout their philosopy on a proven investment that has made many people a great deal of money.The sky is not falling we have some tough times ahead but that is why investments such as stocks and real estate are cyclical. I have recently identified a property that is 15% below market and I am in contract to buy it, am I nervous? yes but I do feel you can find the right deal today and be rewarded by HOLDING 5-7 down the road. Could I be wrong, absolutly but I have never sold a property for a loss yet, maybe my time has come, but I doubt it.

I gotta admit as long as petrfitz stop making outrageous personal claims, stop condescending people, stop acting pompous and superior, he could actually make sensible comments.

petrjizz,

I just posted a link showing how people on this board THIS YEAR in JAN thought we were fools:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/2651-where-are-all-the-idiots-who-made-the-2007-doomsday-predictions

So CLEARLY, there were many people who EVEN THIS YEAR did not believe what is coming.

"You also call me a "Monday Football Quarterback" but I am the one who 1 - currently owns real estate, and is currently buying real estate. I am in the game and playing hard."

and you will be the one who will get burned by not accepting reality and making risky investment decisions.

But it's ok, your actress/model wife has the phat trust fund so you should be fine.

If you had listened to me and put your money in Gold last year instead of real estate, you would have made money without taking in as much risk. With the kind of risk you're taking by attempting to play in a market place that is currently influx and showing signs of retracement, you might as well go to the casino if your risk appetite is that large.

Prediction: Things will start to turn around next week with the June unemployment report and Housing bill. We're going to be on a roller coaster ride for the next 18 months, though.

I actually think one of the major upticks will be after President Obama is inaugurated. We'll have a few months of hope and good feeling. Things will take a slide again but then we'll get into more serious recovery mode in 2010. Manhattan RE may be a little flat in the meantime, but the new boom will happen around the time the WTC gets finished in 2011 or so.

Do I have a crystal ball? Well, maybe....

Tony- You just said a whole lot of nothing. Good luck.

dco - please provide 1 example where you have added value in a post? Have you ever posted with an idea on how to actually make money in RE? or is all you do is naysay and criticize those who actually are making money?

here's where steve also said he makes 60% per year and outperforms hedge funds for the past 15 years.

Oh Danny-Boy, you do obsess about me!

Here's how I can make all my lost money back: the FXI is currently around 27. If it goes up to 60, where it was in January, then I'll have recovered all my losses.

And it will.

The degree to which people who made these predictions were chided when they made them is reason enough to now gloat. There was an entire thread entitled" where all the idiots who predicted dow 11,000?". Are you serious that you think these people are happy about where we are? They made a major market prediction and it came to fruition. This is sheer brilliance that should be rewarded with fortunes. The fact that you did not participate is RIDICULOUS. You should be ashamed of yourselves for not heading the warning and recklessly destroying your own net worths. Next will come the real estate crash in NYC, and you will do nothing. Again. Pathetic. Heed the call, sell and rent. Avoid the disaster. Get ahead of the market. Don't be foolish. You are in control of your own destiny.

I for one am glad that clown petrfitz is gone

Ignoring comment by petrfitz.

wonder what happened to that newbie techjunkie. All that blathering about how hedge funds would be fine and how great an investment his recent condo/coop purchase was.

He hasn't posted in 10 days

bump