The Edge

I'm not in contract but looking in there and elsewhere.

I agree kiz10014. I am not part of any group and I'm not suing or anything. That will just increase legal fees and cost me more money. It was my fault that signed a contract in 2008 before prices plummeted, and I'm just trying not to make it worse.

bereasonable - I'm in the same boat. If I could get them down 15% total, I'd stay and deal with the 5-10% that I might be underwater. They don't seem to be willing to go that low. Northside Piers really cut the legs out from under them. All the comps from NSP in the last 24 months just kill the edge price PSF. I'd fight them for that deposit. Don't give it up without a battle.

If as is suggested above, you view your 10% down (liquid!) as a sunk cost, could you really do better by going down the block and starting a new negotiation? when you leave taht money on the table it is gone forever,
incidentally, what is your target ppsf?

NYCrealist - we'll see what happens. I'm willing to negotiate, but tying up more cash (because this project is not 90-100% financeable) and immediately losing it is silly. There are a ton of apts that they have to sell, and price is the limiting factor. It's certaintly not marketing - every potential buyer knows about the EDGE. NSP2 is looking like a much better deal.

kiz10014 - because the difference in pricing is so great (much more than 10%) between what they were asking and current pricing the 10% down payment is already gone. To close at higher prices than market levels is throwing away more money after bad. Since you're not in contract, do not sign one until you are comfortable with the supply of other apts in inventory which will impact pricing. That is the mistake I made.

kiz10014 - Who's talking about going down the street? For most people it would be walking away from buying in total. Staying where they are, which is probably renting for a lot of people.
The Edge is getting it's butt handed to it by Northside Piers, and will be until they start negotiating in earnest. The Edge is the better development, but not at a $60-75 PSF premium. The Edge needs to be at $650/sf on their lower level, no view units. Then work their way up from there. Which means they are $100/sf above their 2008 asking prices.

Is the premium at Edge over NSP 65psf..or more?

If you guys say you are walking, what do you think the market price is at tHe Edge....i mean, how much below the 2008 prices.

thanks

what are the people in the buyers group doing.....anyone know?

I'm not in contract there nor likely to get there soon at the current pricing. Their pricing on the no-view units interior is probably already around $650/SQFT - which isn't so bad. What do people think is a fair premium for views and higher floors? And if not at Edge - where else to go? 80 Met isn't bad but the common charges are very high and the quality at NSP is at least one level below.

buyerbuyer - The Edge is about 100/sf high right now. Or their 2008 asking prices are at least. NSP is undercutting the Edge by close to 100/sf on some units. Heck, NSP was selling some units in tower 1 for $575/sf.

TGIRentstabilized - From the Edge's website, their lower level poor view/courtyard view apartments are ranging from $710-$790/sf depending on unit size. They should be starting at $650/sf asking price for those units. They are too high. The comps in the area are coming in much lower, and I understand The Edge thinks they can charge a premium, but not $100/sf over other developments.

As far as higher floors, I'd say $5000-7000/floor. So the same unit 10 floors higher is worth $50,000-70,000 more.

How many buyers had a drop dead contract date of Sept?.....was that all the early ones?

Again...is it being claimed here that the banks were told by the edge office that sales were only 30% as of two weeks ago? Is that for sure? Seems strange since banks might well be expected to tell buyers who would then wonder why the office told them something different. Do you have hard info that this is what banks were told two weeks ago?

NYCrealist: you have a lot of good points, thanks for your thoughts.
kiz10014: you sound too much like someone i know at the edge sales office-- prove me wrong.

if the edge is not willing to realistically reduce their pricing, how will they survive?
they still have quite a few years to go before they sell out, and since the world is so small,
a bad reputation goes a long way these days.

nope, not a broker at the edge or anywhere else, been posting here for a couple of years, if you desire to be proved wrong, just read my past posts. i was in a simialr situation so just trying to share my advice on what i learned which is that an organized group leveling threats against the developer likely won't get you to where you want to be.

lifeontheedge: "a bad reputation goes a long way these days"? Just so you are aware they are under no obligation what so ever to provide any sort of price reduction for those in contract, myself included. Did Douglaston and Levine cause the economic downfall over the past 2 years?

Why does everyone feel like they are "owed" something here? If the economy was still booming and an apartment was worth 100k more today then in 2008 would you be expected to pay an additional 100k at closing???? It astounds me that there are actually people thinking they are getting screwed by the Edge. My fiance and I went into contract in April of 2008 knowing fully well that this is not only an investment but will be our home, for a long time. We were not expecting any sort of renegotiation and were still reasonably comfortable with what our price was. Of course lower is better but we weren't expecting it. I think they fact that they are openly willing to sit down on a case by case basis and renegotiate is a testament to them building a great sense of goodwill among those of us that went into contract early and trying to make it as fair as possible.

mikolinski - They have to negotiate with the buyers. When the appraisals come in and they are 15% below what people signed their contracts for, people will not be able to get mortgages. And The Edge has reduced much of their pricing on their website already. When they are "negotiating" with the buyers in contract all they are really doing is offering them the new asking price. So, no, you are correct, they are under no obligation to negotiate. They could try and force you to close your unit with your 2008 pricing. But they know that you won't get a mortgage at that price, and you will be more likely to walk away and loose your 10% deposit than service a debt for a unit that is 15% over current market value.
Do you really want to pay interest on a unit that is priced well over market value? It will take several years for the market to reach what you paid for your unit and you'll be paying a lot of interest on it until then.

Both realist and miko are making legitimate points. They have no legal obligation, but as a practical matter, to avoid walk-aways they need to offer something.

Isn't the real issue in this building what discount it will eventually take to sell out the building (assuming the developer does not just go rental or decide to sell over three or more additional years) -- because the discount could turn oout to be much greater than what they are currently offering, in which case the depositors will be more underwater than would appear from the modest discounts currently being offered.

the developers play a game of chicken, some may walk but many will close at an inflated price. look at 80 met they still have all those outstanding contracts-- many of those are people that did not get the discount they wanted and are not closing- but many others did close, developer just trying to maximize profit. nsp is different that edge and 80 met bec toll is a large co.

Has 80 met ever made it clear that unclosed contracts are no expired, and is it clear how many walked?

kiz10014: thanks for your advice. what kind of situation were you in previously? did you lose your deposit on a place?

mikolinski: i am very glad that you and your fiance are happy with your purchase. everyone has different views and expectations, and it is great that you and a few other buyers are content with your unit and price. unfortunately, i have not had the same positive experience as you have had with the edge. don't get me wrong-- i definitely love the building and it is certifiably superior in every way, shape and form to northside piers or any building in the area-- but a happy customer i am not.

i wound up closing. i was able to get the unit at the current going rate on a psf basis, which was about 15% off original ask price. i'm sure if i was coming in off the street i would have gotten a better deal but considering they had my 6 figure deposit i feel the result was the best i could get given the options available to me

kiz10014: thanks so much for the info. can you please let me know how you were able to get them down to a much more agreeable price? hard negotiations? good cop bad cop? flies with honey?

Can anybody who says the market is down far more than 10% vs. '08 show comps, please? Here is an actual unit that just sold 11% down vs '07 at 794/sf (and I think the Edge is way nicer than 55 Berry):

http://www.trulia.com/homes/New_York/Brooklyn/sold/23599785-55-Berry-St-6F-Brooklyn-NY-11211

the 794/sf includes a 1215 ft private terrace and 2 storage bins. It is also on the top floor with 13 ft ceilings. take any unit at the edge with 10 ft+ ceilings and add a cabana and 2 storage bins to the cost and recalculate price/sf--definitely more than 794/sf. Also, the owner might have paid separately for the storage bins so the true 2007 purchase price of 6F+ would have to include the cost of those bins as the sale in 2010 does.

here is the streeteasy listing
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/495117-condo-55-berry-street-williamsburg-brooklyn

The main point was not to compare Edge vs 55 Berry psf price but price change over time. Even including the storage bins, the 07 vs. 10 drop will not be much over 10%.

sure, let's say 12% drop if 10k/storage bin. Let's also assume that the drop for a particular unit you are interested is 12% over 3 year time period. 12% of >$1mm is a lot of money and means it would have better for you to rent (although hindsight is 20/20). Also, when sales began the Edge was overpriced relative to market, hence the poor initial sales. The value of any apartment at the Edge is at least 12-15% less than its 2008 list price.

polisson - Prices were down 20% in Manhattan from 2007/2008 peaks, why would Billyburg be any different?

The real question is not arguing over one single comp vs a whole building....but what is the price at which similar units are selling now. What price level did it take to sell at nsp is the issue ?

Absolutely, That is the right question. NSP sold units in tower 1 for as low as $575 psf, and a couple in the past 45 days. Those sort of numbers are out there forever now.

asdfasf1234, I agree with you. About 15%. And that's the discount they are now giving.
And absolutely, renting would have been better. But I do not claim to know the future.

NYCrealist, I just don't see the comps for the 30% that some trolls have thrown out. The trend is that Williamsburg is an appreciating neighborhood, so if you combine a 20% general market drop with the rapid increase in desirability of this neighborhood (even if not everybody will agree), you might end up with a -15% change overall.

And I agree, nsp is cheaper on a psf basis. But most people would agree that the Edge is nicer. Also, if you compare actual unit prices, 1BR vs. 1BR, 2BR vs 2BR, the Edge is NOT more expensive than NSP. So, in my view, it comes down what you value higher, slightly higher nominal square footae at NSP or the better quality that the Edge has to offer.

polisson - I agree with your numbers. A 15% drop is about right. And NSP sold a lot of units when they cut their prices by that amount.

The Edge is better. Absolutely. No contest. But how much better. They are priced quite a bit higher than NSP. If you ONLY look at NSP 2 versus the Edge maybe, they get a little closer. But NSP 1 really brought the average down.

I thought the Edge was having closing in 2-3 wks. Kiz did you close at 80met or Edge?

kiz..wasn't clear where you said you closed and got the post-deposit contract....were you talking about the Edge or 80 met?

sorry,,,,meant to say post-deposit/contract.discount.....

Can anybody elaborate on the construction/material quality?
I'm asking because everybody is saying that but nobody lists the actual items. Why is the contruction better?
From the surface, their finishes are not super high end compared to many in 11211 zip codes.
- Not all Miele but a mix of GE and Bosch
- Oak floor (cheaper and softer) rather than Brazilian walnut
- Not super high end faucets
- No range hood
- Shakey cabinets in the kitchen

Am I missing something? Why does everybody say that the Edge has good quality? Don't tell me it's because "union built". I can care less about unions. Unions don't make oak floors walnut.

I'm considering NSP2 slightly infereior to the Edge, but not too much. To say the Edge has good quality, to me, seems to be far-fetched. Please chime in if you don't agree. Thank you.

caffeine - to answer some of your questions.
- The Edge appliances are mainly Miele. They went with a Sharp microwave, because Miele does not make the pull out drawer type of microwave. The Washer/Dryer are Bosch, Miele does not make a compact stackable washer /dryer. The Edge had to go with Energy Star rated appliances to obtain their LEED certification. Sub-zero fridges are not Energy Star rated, and the Miele fridge is one of the most efficient fridges (it's a $6000 fridge BTW).

-Brazilian Walnut, though beautiful, is not a sustainable wood. The Edge went with a wood flooring that will help them obtain their LEED rating.

-Bathroom faucets, and toilets are low flow in the Edge. Frankly I don't see how the NSP fixtures are any higher quality.

-The Kitchen cabinets in the Edge are frosted glass. They are white lacquer in NSP. Can't really say that there's much of a quality difference there either.

The main quality difference you will notice is in the public/common spaces. The hallways in NSP have cheap carpet, wall paper, and vinyl base. There common spaces are very small in NSP, and the finishes are average at best. The Edge feels and looks like a much better building when you walk through the common areas.

Personally I think the Edge is worth about $30 more per square foot when comparing similar units. NSP tower 1 is 98% sold, according to their sales people, so you are looking at NSP 2 units only right now. I think you'll find that NSP is not negotiating like they were a few months ago.

Was not impressed by the Edge at all, insane SF inflation, build quality was nothing special. Curious lack of a rangehood. View of the water will be lost in many of the units once the last tower goes up. All in all a ridiculous waste of time.

"All in all a ridiculous waste of time."
That seems a wee bit harsh.
OK, so what development is not a waste of time?

It's the price they are asking vs. what they are offering. They make it seem much nicer in the photos, floorplan. It felt like a bait and switch when a 1200 SF apartment is more like 800 and they don't tell you you are losing the view unless you ask (fine, "salesmanship", buyer beware, etc.) but at the end of the day it still felt like a collossal waste of time for a million+ asking price in Brooklyn. For a mil, I expect to be impressed in Brooklyn, or else I would just stick with Manhattan, no view, high maintenance and small living space can be done there. Bring your tape measure, those floorplans are OFF.

NYCrealist

"All in all a ridiculous waste of time."
That seems a wee bit harsh.
OK, so what development is not a waste of time?

Sorry PPlayer, but you are way off. 1200sf = 800sf? No way. I've been in the building, measured the unit we were looking at, did the calcs and found their SF to be accurate. You have to understand that they include exterior walls, interior walls, and half the hallway in front of your unit. That's standard operating procedure for ALL new condos. NSP, 80 Met, etc. all use the same procedure.

My wife and I visited probably a dozen or so developments around the same price range as the Edge. I can't think of any of those that exceeded the Edge as far as quality. Many were on par, or close, but nothing was really above the Edge.

AS far as the views, Phase 2 will not block that many units. The majority of units on the South tower will not have an obstructed view from Phase 2. If you look at the site plan, you can see that Phase 2 will be built in front of the two phase 1 towers, but largely in the gap between the Phase 1 South and North towers. Generally, anything that is going to have an obstructed view has been discounted. Much like North Side Piers. I'm assuming you think that development is a waste of time as well since their tower 3 will block some of tower 2's views?

You still haven't answered my question, what do you think is a good development?
And, a million bucks? Both the Edge and NSP have A LOT of units for under a million, daddy warbucks.

I'm interested in the Manhattan condo where you can get new construction, high quality fixtures, a pool, gyms, sauna, steam room, screening room, kids room and party room for $700-800 psf, within easy walking distance of a train. Please share. Difficulty: not in Harlem.

I found some roughly comparably priced coops on a psf basis, but they offered nothing outside of the apartment and are not an option for many buyers due to their onerous financial restrictions.

NYCrealist, thanks for the reply. Good to know about the common area.
Just a few facts I know (not sure if you just repeated what the realtor said, but some are incorrect):
1. Sub zero has many models energy star rated.
2. There are compact Miele washer/dryers
3. Oak is not more sustainable than walnut, assuming both are raised/produced in a sustainable way. In fact, Oak is much cheaper than walnut and many developers changed their original design from walnut to oak post Lehman. I thought that the Edge was the same. (I don't blame them.But I want straight facts.)
4. The lack of range hood thing is a killer for any who will cook.You design a open kitchens without range hood? How gross is that?
How are the walls? I'm curious to see if they did a good job insulating sound. we'll find out after buyers move in:)

Thanks.

Caffeine, you agree, though, that NSP is not LEED, but Edge is, right?
I don't understand what you have against the Miele fridge in the Edge. I'd take that over subzero any day.
Also, don't understand what you have against Bosch. That's high end, too.
Oak is sustainable while "Brazilian walnut" is not. I'd say it is a matter of preference which one you consider more beautiful.
Cabinets in Edge are all non slam. Top quality.
Bathroom tiles and fixtures are beautiful. Pull out faucet in kitchen sink is high end.
Edge is specifically designed for excellent sound insulation; they have five layers of insulation between walls.
Only NSP1 is union labor. NSP2 is not. And union labor is not about supporting the union cause (or turning oak into walnut) it is about having qualified people on the site.
I agree that the lack of range hoods may be considered a drawback, but I currently have a range hood and almost never use it (and I cook a lot), so for me this is not an issue.

But you said it yourself: everybody says that Edge is top quality.

No doubt the Edge's amenities are the best I've seen in all of Brooklyn. An avid basketball fan like myself would be a regular on the court; I'd never need a local gym membership again. But the stark reality is I'll probably be negotiating with NSP because the units are much more appealing than the units at the Edge in the 550k price range. Unless the Edge has some major price cuts, I can't justify purchasing any of the north facing units in South Edge since Phase 2 will obstruct the view considerably. Whereas in NSP2, anything facing south will similarly be obstructed by NSP3 however if you're above the 11th floor and you'll still be able to see the Williamsburg bridge. Of course 10 years from now that bridge view is blocked by the Domino towers! But still, I presume a major factor in buying waterfront units is for the view. If there is no view in 5 years, I can't justify paying $850+ per sq ft. So for those of us unable to pay more than 600k and looking for some semblance of a permanent view, the Edge is just not the best option in my opinion:(

When NSP1 lowered their prices in April of this year, we checked out the 3BR/2BA G line. The line is a corner unit with northeast exposures and the highest floor available just cleared the rentals so you get very nice partial views of the water and midtown (Chrysler, UN, Citicorp bldgs. etc are all visible). Even with Edge phase 2 coming up (and unless they build on the water), those views will never go away.

The price for that unit was $599/ft. We tried making an offer just a few days later but it was already in contract.

ingenieur -- the g line (at least the one beds but the 2 bed in g lines must be quite close) will be blocked patially for sure by the new building whenever it is built. The blocking will be of the whole cool part of the view, that is, the sweepin view from upper 30s to 60s...the citicorp view, etc. Also, 600psf at edge sounds very low for anything with a view. Are you sure the views werent worse than you rememmber

I've resigned myself to the fact that unless you are in a direct west facing unit in the South Edge, you have no view. If you are coiunting on angles and/or seeing slices of the river, it's not much of a view to speak of. My bid for an apt and desire to live at Edge are based more on having that direct access to the waterfront, the neighborhood, and the amenities of the building. I only wish that Edge had deeded parking.

Question to everyone:

When you guys are talking about % discount, are you including or not including closing costs? For example, let's say you are buying a $700,000 unit for $650,000. Additionally, you are getting "closing costs" paid for by the sponsor (bascially, the sponser paying $20,000 of the transfer taxes, etc). Would you count yourself as getting the unite for $630,000? That would a difference between a 7% discount and a 10% discount.

Thanks!

Hi buyerbuyer, I was talking about NSP1 not the EDGE.

The view is right in between NSP2 and the south tower of the EDGE. They would have to build in front of the pool at the EDGE (which they can't because it's part of the esplanade) for the views to be blocked.

ingenieur-are you talking about 7G? I was too late as well--the person that bought that one got a sweet deal.

asdfasf1234, yep it was 7G. Do you remember the views? It wasn't a full view but it was a good view. And like I said earlier, it looked like it would stay even with EDGE phase 2 coming up.

ingenieur-good partial view, agree with your comments.

I viewed the Edge NSP2 and 80 Met due to their 25 year tax abatements. In the lower price range, the favored view apartments were at NSP2, while 80 Met gets the nod for charm and industrial esthetic. The Edge may cut it in higher priced units which I didn't tour.

Kiz....just wondering...Since you posted several posts on the 80 met thread as recently as three months ago talking about considering buying there, and then on this thread now post as of 9 days ago that you were a long-time back contract person, who was able sort of to renegotiate, I was wondering. Were you able to go into contract just a few months ago and then argue that the market changed after that and get a discount? Seems really hard.

kiz10014
9 days ago
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i wound up closing. i was able to get the unit at the current going rate on a psf basis, which was about 15% off original ask price. i'm sure if i was coming in off the street i would have gotten a better deal but considering they had my 6 figure deposit i feel the result was the best i could get given the options available to me

Any thoughts on the R line in the south building? Will it become a good resale?

Does anybody know when closing will take place?

I'm considering this building, but am concerned about the commute via L train. Can anyone comment on how the train is during the morning rush?

It can be crowded sometimes, but it runs very frequent and its not as bad as the #4,5 and 6 train.

Does anyone know whatsup with Edge sales office on N6 and Kent? Passed by it yesterday and it said space available for lease? Did they close?

Probably relocating to the actual building now that closings have started.

thestreet, you should go to Williamsburg on a weekday morning, and then commute to work to see what it's like for yourself.

I tried this, and I got onto the first rush hour train, but some people were left behind on the platform because the train wasn't big enough to hold everyone who wanted to get onto it.

Does anyone know what the cost of construction, land and financing at this building is? I'm trying to figure out the replacement cost if someone built a new building like this now.

bob_d: "people were left behind on the platform because the train wasn't big enough to hold everyone who wanted to get onto it."

Good news, everyone:

"City mulls Williamsburg ferry service"

"The city issued a request for proposals Monday for a Williamsburg ferry landing as an alternative to the overcrowded L train. The ferry would also make stops at Northside and Greenpoint. "

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100818/REAL_ESTATE/100819826

Now watch the PSF prices rise...

pulaski, I can only assume that post was tongue-in-cheek, but for anyone who might think that - don't. There's still a LOT of work to be done to make the ferry a) actually run, and b) become a viable alternative, with fares subsidized enough to draw L train riders. It won't hurt property values, but any bump would be minimal at best.

Hallelujah, Ive been barking about increasing water taxi usage for some time. It's a win win.
Now if anyone there had half a brain and got Atlantic City involved, now your really cookin.

for some reason, i've never had a problem on the L. never in 4 years. way way back, i remember the 6 being a massive headache, i'd watch 2 trains pass to get barely squeezed on. i think the 4,5,6 line is the worst. i also, now, in WB, walk to the jmz all the time because i work downtown. nice walk, easy commute. i also use the B62 for getting around the hood. it's very reliable.

The jmz is pretty far walk from the Edge. I've never taken the L during rush hour, but will have to test it out one of these mornings. The ferry is a plus..the more transportation alternatives the better, but will people actually take the ferry and then have to hike across town to catch a train and pay another fare?

I've taken the L on weekday mornings. before 815-830, I didn't have a problem getting on, though the train was crowded. after 815, the situation was exactly as bob_d described, every day. the jmz is a 25 minute walk from the edge, so not really a viable option. Ferry service would be nice, especially if you could use a metro card or get a free transfer. Don't they have something like this in London?

Random question--are the Edge/NSP as well as Tempo on 14th St offering some sort of incentive to brokers on top of the normal 3%? Some lady keeps on spamming discussions to advertise these buildings.

i posted this on 80 met about the edge:

what is the story on that central unit at the edge ALWAYS blowing air in? It just seems weird you can't just cut it off. I mean, if you're regulating your ac/heat presumably you can turn that up/down or off....so what is it that you can NEVER turn off altogether. And is that something running IN your apartment, meaning a fan making noise that you can never turn off. Seems odd......

Checked out the AC units at the Edge at the open house and there is nothing wrong with them. Central air unit has the usual controls: fan low / high, etc., and is very quiet. 80 Met, however, has window unit type AC.

Hi. Does anybody know if people have moved in? Last week the lobby was open and the doorman was there, but otherwise it still looked like everything is under construction. Also is anybody worried about the summer concerts right next to the building? Even if the windows are sound proof, there will still be a lot of vibration, I imagine.

PS. Really like the building and seriously thinking about making an offer, but several things are not quite right. First: the prices like you all are saying. Not sure if they will be willing to negotiate on the actual price or just the CC, apartment improvement, closing costs, etc, things that will not look like they are actually dropping the price. Which brings another point: how come there is absolutely no record on any offers/contracts in the Edge? There is nothing! In NSP you can see what they have sold but not at the Edge. Is anybody bothered by that? Also at NSP, they have basically sold the NSP1 and the NSP2 apartments are REALLY expensive. The broker there gave an impression that they are not negotiating anymore. Any of your thoughts much appreciated. Thanks.

Hi -- also like the building but think prices quite high, higher than nsp2.

The concerts are an issue but they don't have them that often (20 spread over the summer months i think), and if you're on a higher floor in south edge I doubt if they will be such a nuisance. If you are close by in the north building then I think it would be an issue.

I don't know why there is no record of contracts. I assume they have no legal obligation to post them.

@shg I believe closing at the EDGE just began, and official record hasn't been pulled to Street Easy yet.

Edge is willing to negotiate the price, and price reduction various on floorplans.

NSP2 is not that expensive compare to NSP1, and in fact they are cheaper. Most units in NSP2 has direct views of Manhattan and the river. half of the NSP1 building does not have views. You need to compare apple to apple.

Price per sqft wise, NSP2 is cheaper.

streeteasy relies on voluntary information from the seller in regard to listings in contract. some sellers will post those, others won't. according to the Edge sales office, 30% of the units in the development are in contract (or have closed, but closings just started recently).

Anyone buying a studio at The Edge? Looking at a studio at either NSP2 or at the Edge and I'm torn. Both buildings have some decent studio layouts. Would you say the buildings are inclined to discount list prices for these smaller units, figuring they're at the low end as it is? Thx.

studios at the edge are tiny!

+ they are overpriced. i would only consider them at 600psf at most, the ones with decent views, not the ones facing the inside bubble.

It seems like the first closing has occurred.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/1708090

Is my math correct, but does the final price translate to $806 PSF?

LIC_Queens: I would choose the EDGE over NSP2. Prices are pretty much the same (NSP1 is cheaper than NSP2) and they don't really negotiate prices at NSP2 anymore. Plus, the finishings are much better at the EDGE. Try to put a dining plate in the kitchen cabinet at NSP2, it does not fit. Look at the appliances, they are less good than at the EDGE, look at the amenities, the EDGE offers more and better, etc.

Edge is better I think overall BUT there are some really nice layouts at NSP2 that are nicer than at the Edge, so, I think you have to see which layouts seems better for you, and also compare price. I think the Edge is still more expensive by say 10% BUT this also differs by unit and line.

All good advice, thanks.

I'm just finding that most of the available studios at the Edge seem to face east or Williamsburg, on low floors, with no view at all. I mean, what you see is what you get with them, you probably won't lose those particular views anytime in the future, but with NSP2, you will probably have some view at least for awhile.

The Edge does have a lot of amenities, but most I won't use. I have a sauna in my current building and went in it 2x in 13 years. And I know I'd never use a basketball court since I stink at basketball. Ha!

Hey LIC_Queens, the basketball court can also be used as a tennis court, any better at that?

was that a serious comment polisson?...(how could wood floor of basketball court be used for tennis?)...or was that a joke?

As far as I know, the basketball court is a multi purpose sports room and can also be used as an indoors tennis court.

But I agree with you, buyerbuyer, that the floor probably would be too fast for tennis. It can definitely be used for volleyball, though. You like that sport any better, LIC_Queens?

a follow up on my train post - i live in north williamsburg, and i think even though it's a 15 minute walk at least to the JM (is the z gone?), if you work downtown, not having to change trains, saves some time, and i consider the walk part of my daily exercise routine. as an alternative, you can take the B62 to broadway and then take the JM. BUT, of course, many will take the L. it is short ride to manhattan, and the trains seem to come fairly quickly. i really seriously have never not gotten on the L train in the morning. evening is less crowded probably because not everyone comes home at the same time, and seems to run very frequently, like within in 3 minutes of each other. i have to take stuff home a lot, so i take a car service home, and even at rush hour, it's fast - the bridge is never that crowded (altho it is on the left side which connects to the BQE). i'm home by car in less than 15 minutes.

@polisson, I actually have tennis courts in my current building and I also stink at that. But volleyball I'm good at. Lol

Interesting, I didn't know it was a multi-purpose room.

What does everyone think of the two closings that just hit public record?

Did they close at pre-Lehman/pre-Bear Stearns prices? Or are those closing prices accurate for today's market?

People have signed contracts on EDGE more than 2 years ago. They likely have not had their prices adjusted to today's levels because they are under contract and risked losing their deposits. These prices likely reflect that. Every other property in today's market is much lower.

After the appraisal, the bank most likely is not going to appraise the property price as the same as buyers agreed to pay in 2008. So, do you think the sponsor is willing to lower the price for those who signed contracts in 2008?

Does anyone know how to find the sales on acris ?( i can find these particular ones listed on se but not find ALL the sales as of yet for the building...not clear to me how to search the BLOCK for sales, and not just specific blcok/lot)

buyerbuyer: my guess is that these are the only 2 actual closings so far, and therefore the only 2 to hit public record...

siulobow: some people in contract since 2008 already mentioned they were able to get a reasonable discount here I believe.

buyerbuyer: go here...
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/Coverpage.dll/index
click on party name, search for the business: EDGE 11211 LLC , select document class deeds and other conveyances, and search...
I like to go through old data too; you can get a good excel file of sales though they're about a month lagged: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/property/property_val_sales.shtml

Jabra: sometimes takes a couple of weeks for closing to show up in ACRIS... If you look at the dates of closing, they were signed on 8/13 and 8/17 so it took 2 weeks to show up.

I'm surprised there isn't a huge flood of closings recorded, especially for those trying to obtain the tax credit. Anyone know the specifics unit 9T? (sq ft, balcony, which direction it faces). South Edge has never listed anything on the T line. 7B was 688 sq ft I presume and facing south west- not sure if it had a balcony though.

As for the bball court, it could realistically double as a vball court. I think the tennis players will just take the walk a few blocks to the park and play. Plus it'd be weird if two or four people max to take up the whole court during peak hours so if they play tennis it'd have to be during odd hours.

Well anyway, does anyone know how many units the sales team touts as closed? or has anyone in contract on this board close yet?

thanks...I don't think there is a balcony on 7th floor b line. I don't know where T is.

re_guru: those people already in contract since 2008, how could they negotiate with the sponsor to lower the price?

Legally, they are not able to negotiate with the sponsor but the sponsor seems to be willing to throw them a minor bone, small reductions mainly as an offset to some of the closing costs. This minor offset is can usually be written off on the sponsors taxes anyway. The all-in prices however are still at 2008 levels.

bereasonable: how should i start to talk to them?

If you are under contract they seem to want you correspond via your lawyer. I have tried through my broker and lawyer.

If I remember correctly, the T line is a 599 sqft 1 bedroom with balcony, facing WEST and the Manhattan skyline.

The Edge has created a big problem by having "over 120 layouts" and by not sharing all of the floorplans. For example (and as noted above), how can one see the T line? Or the S line? You have to meet with a broker and then hope he or she narrows down the over 120 layouts to the ones that matter to you. Not all buyers want to be led by a broker, some prefer a DIY approach.

Northside Piers has been open with all of their floor plans... Very easy to view on their website. The Edge website is PATHETIC. We don't need a selection of Edge "availabilities" -- let us see all the units.

Critically, the numerous layouts makes pricing *very difficult*. Buyers want to avoid remorse and unique plans make estimating very challenging. Thus, on balance, buyers will be reluctant to purchase in quirky units.

I think this is one of the big reasons between the relative success of Northside Piers and the obvious challenges of The Edge. Here's a test: If you could be a broker, would you rather be at The Edge or Northside Piers? I'd go for NP and the fewer floorplans that make for easier comps and more confident sales.