Garden vs Rooftop

I had a garden space for 25 years (ground floor brownstone, I maintained it), and I like it nowhere near as much as my much smaller balcony (6x10' with some planters, self maintained) plus the roof of my building (no plants, but with some tables and chairs; building maintains it). It was all about the upkeep

Bugs, vermin, upstairs neighbors trash (cigarettes, etc)

What neighborhood is this in? What type of building?

Thank you. I guess it truly is about the upkeep. Did you have any issue with bugs, mice being on the ground level?

If it's the roof above your apartment (as opposed to adjacent to your apartment) and especially if you have to climb up/down a narrow spiral staircase then i would vote for the garden. Also, you are much less likely to have to deal with repairs from leaks.

Typical benefit of the garden is that it may provide pleasant space between your apartment and the other building rather than the other building just being 20 feet away. If you are talking about a townhouse facing the back of another townhouse, you may have 70-100 ft of open space between you and your neighbor's window. If it is garden jammed in between two high rises, not too much value relative to a private easily accessible rooftop,

I've had both. Rooftop better in every way except the heat. Full southern exposure makes it intolerable on warm days unless you're under an umbrella. Hibiscus love it though...

I've had a garden and roof in a Brownstone I lived in years ago. Roof was great for gardening and nothing like being up high in NYC especially entertaining at night. The backyard was also very enjoyable, though dark as it faced North and we were on the North side of the street. I think if I had the choice I would opt for a backyard, nice to just walk out your door and be in a green space.Even with the lack of sun we still managed to find plants that thrived, including a peach tree that my daughter still is getting peaches from! That said if you can find a outdoor space that is essentially a set-back with a nice parapet around it, pretty hard to beat that. In our case the roof was accessed via a ladder through a sort of porthole, could be tricky to navigate.

We had no issue with bugs, mice or rats other than the inevitable fact they outnumber us in NYC! Good seals, traps and cleanliness kept 'things' at bay.

Keith Burkhardt
The Burkhardt Group

Bugs and vermin weren't a problem -- I mean, bugs are bugs, and a yard is their natural habitat, but it didn't result in any more being inside. The squirrels would sometimes dig things up, and I never had mouse/rat problems. It was nice having the ground floor outdoor space, but I just didn't use it that much relative to the upkeep. There wasn't that much breeze on hot days (though the shade was nice), and there weren't any views. It was more interesting to hang out on the front stoop of the building. I now use my balcony much more (15th floor), and having the building's roof deck is nice when I have a group over and we want to eat/drink while admiring the view.

Agree w/ Keith - outdoor setback with parapet is best. No stairs- no problem carrying food/drinks to the terrace.
Also, not all buildings allow drinking on the common terrace - my building does not.

Hi Seasy I had the same questions before i bought 5 years ago. I spent 2 years and looked at over 100 apartments as qualifying space (backyard, setback terrace, roof terrace....not plain balcony) reduces available inventory by 90%.
I came close to opting for just getting a bigger apartment a few times but would lowball too much. Im sure I was subconsciously sabotaging the purchases as in my heart I wanted outdoor space.

I too eventually sabotaged backyard options as I was concerned with vermin and bugs. This is pretty much a fact in manhattan. A few friends with backyards have all encountered these issues as well as yes fieldchester....upstairs neighbors trash (cigarettes). Keep in mind backyards allow annoying sounds to travel to your neighbors who may toss things onto your yard, certainly their guests and their cigarette butts. Chelsea, upper east side, tribeca....its available to all neighborhoods.
And as 300mercer points out, I couldnt stand every yard i saw that had so many rows of neighbor windows all overlooking you like your in a zoo.

The one positive is it is legal to propane grill in your yard and for the most part, and even 10 feet from a wall your still not allowed to grill on a roof deck.

But with a roof deck let me add, if your in a building with 100 year old bricks, with a lot of plants on your roof deck...
a) you CAN have bugs. I've negated most of that problem by spreading diatomaceous earth around the brick walls and doorways. It did take me 3 years to figure out what works best. In addition, field mice do run across the 4 to 8 story building rooftops. I did catch 2 mice in my apartment over my 5 years. I think Ive patched up every crevice but as I said, its a 100 year old building.
So the point is your not immune to these problems by being elevated, but they occur less frequent than ground floor.

b) It is also impossible to stay up there midday for 2 reasons.
Flarf is correct with the heat. I bought many loungers with the intent of doing lots of sunning. Forget it! It is southfacing and with no ocean breeze its brutal.
Secondly, if you have flowering plants, the bees will keep dive bombing you until you leave.

Still after 5 pm, its is the greatest, especially with views, something a backyard cant really give you.
Stairs are a little annoying as 30yrsRE points out. They are not spiral but still annoying. A setback terrace off your living room is best, but you'll get more roof deck square footage for your dollar.

Next season I intend to get an architect and redo the entire deck. Most importantly I want to build housing for appliances to limit up and down traffic as much as possible.

A question for rooftop fans. What would you think about a townhouse without a garden at the back but rooftop? For example this one assuming there is an elevator added.

http://streeteasy.com/building/272-west-91-street-manhattan/house

It's not just cooking equipment carried up - it's food, plates, glasses, barware, etc. etc. So a roof terrace has to be fitted out with EVERYTHING needed for entertaining outdoors (storage for all that stuff, dishwasher, fridge, etc. etc.)

Good point ph41. Think garden is lot more convenient from that point of view in a townhouse. I am not much of an outdoor dining person as I like air-conditioning without bugs but drinks / appetizers outdoors are nice.

Ironic that ph41 prefers the garden to the penthouse roof deck.
300_ - too much information.

>fieldschester - no, I prefer SETBACK terrace with parapets to rooftop terrace!

I had a roofdeck for 4 years and never used it!

>blue sky - why didn't you use it? Stairs? No shade?

Depending on the height of your building relative to others, wind can be a big issue on roof decks, too. I had a roof deck five stories up in West Chelsea (between 8th and 9th avenue), but my building was about 6' taller than all others in the area. There were a freak few spring / summer wind storms that sent all of my deck furniture (including expensive Design Within Reach loungers) flying and caused damage. Even the expensive, super-heavy umbrella that could supposedly withstand 60 mph winds got blown over a couple of times. I learned to weigh or tie down everything when not using it because we had nothing shielding our deck in three out of four directions. (Up-side was great views!)

Leaks may be an issue and require taking apart the deck to solve. If you have less than the full roof, you also have to be really careful about Time Warner, neighbors' contractors, etc. damaging the roof. E.g., neighbors' a/c contractor leaving nails all over the roof; Time Warner leaving trash that blocked the roof drain, etc. Your deck may also get blamed for every leak in the building, even if the leak is nowhere close to your deck. ;)

My roof deck was up a spiral staircase (and a duplex at that, so two levels up from the kitchen). We had a sink / wet bar on the roof, space for a mini-fridge, and kept some cheap dishware up there. We did grill. My understanding (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong) that charcoal grilling with an electric starter is allowable. (In any case, we did it for several years and never had any problems.)

I never had a problem with insects. In fact, I had problems with lack of insects. I grew vegetables on the roof and had to artificially inseminate my tomato plants for the first couple of years because we didn't get any bees.

All in all, I'd still take a roof deck over a garden, as long as the roof deck is internally connected to the airport, but I agree with others that a setback terrace is even better.

oops, internally connected to the *apartment, not airport.