Buy Country home vs. Manhattan Apt First?

I would highly suggest the Berkshires right now. Tremendous inventory and I can only believe lots of negotiating room

Can you get to the Berkshires via public transit?

yea I think the 5 train stops there

Here is a link for public transportation to the Berkshires :
http://www.mta.info/mnr/html/raillink/berkshires.htm
The only caveat is that getting from town to town really demands a car. You will want to drive to Tanglewood, Jacob's Pillow, Berkshire Theatre Festival, the ski slopes in the winter etc etc....

Just be patient Stevejhx say prices are dropping and EddiwWilson says they are a crashing. You just have to believe in what they say and hope for the best.

The Berkshires are very limited in terms of public transportation. Hudson, NY is far from the main Berkshire areas. I love the area, but the compromise is it is further than the Hamptons and Catskills but the roads are faster so it almost evens out--but not quite. It's still further.

The Catskills have some great values. Downside: only busses go there--again, you really have to drive, like the Berkshires. Also, you aren't going to find a whole lot of places selling the arugala you may be used to from Whole Foods. The place is pretty basic as a county. Some nice towns, but still, pretty limited and basic. That suits many people just fine--many prefer it. But go into it with eyes open.

While the Hamptons are utterly unaffordable for most just getting into the RE market there, a big plus is the LIRR and Hampton Jitney provide easy public transportation for guests and flexible travel when you need it. And while traffic can suck if you don't pay attention and time it right, for the most part East Hampton can be reached within 2.5 hours--the same or a tad shorter than the Catskills and definitely shorter than the Berkshires. Then again, it's the Hamptons and you have to want that.

RECOMMENDATION: Never buy a second home somewhere until you rent there for at least one year. It will help you know if the community is for you or even if you like the whole area. In this market there is no rush, so check out rentals in the fall. And while renting, work an open house or two into your weekend schedules in the area so you can become versed in the market niche that interests you.

The only place I would suggest is Fire Island. Just tell them "the Weasel" sent you!

I agree with kylewest about renting first. We rented in Great Barrington for the winter season to see how often we would actually go up for the weekend and looked at homes for sale in the last month of our rental. The trip to the Berkshires, though, is completely without traffic, there and back again on Sunday -- completely different than the Hamptons. In addition, the price of meals, the range of cultural and recreational activities and the heterogeneity of the people you meet make it a truly wonderful destination. I can assure you, arugula is available (just visit Guidos market in Great Barrington or Lenox), as is a nice iceburg lettuce.

thanks for the feedback...I was thinking the Dutchess/Columbia/Litchfield County area...rentals I've seen aren't as nice as those for sale...but yeah, it's maybe something worth exploring this fall and taking time to discover the area and which properties are available and what the market's like. I've only been to these areas as guests in friends' homes so don't know how it would be like to have a bigger commitment...

But I did want to get everyone's opinion about the principle of the matter -- buying a weekend/country home before getting a primary apt...Is that a bad idea generally or is it a worthwhile option while waiting for either incomes to go up or prices in Manhattan to calm just a little. Will I be in a bad position for later on?

Your question, jimbo, is one for a financial advisor who understands your broad picture. There just isn't a general answer that is worth anything. It may make sense for you, or it may be blowing a hole in your finances that will set you back a decade or more. With respect to a second home if you don't own a first one, you aren't missing any "cardinal" rules. Some such rules exist, but not here.

It all depends on the nature of each place you plan to buy. A fair price on a beach front property is likely to leave you in a better position with greater long term appreciation than an average or even below market price on a place which is located in a less desirable sales area where there are usually more sellers than buyers even in good times. The default rate on second homes is so much higher than on principal residences that the mortgage rates usually reflect the lender's added risk. Yet another reason to be careful in an overbuilt secondary home community.

I'll add this: what most first-time home buyers underestimate is the cost of maintaining a home. Yes, RE taxes--that's obvious. Also the predictable cable and electric. Home heating? Here many grossly underestimate how much this costs. And you can't set a thermostat in a plumbed home at 34 degrees when you leave and think the pipes won't freeze. Then there is the "it's always something" expenses. Roof, furnace, deck needs re-sealing every 1-2 years, yard/garden expenses like deer fense and irrigation system or lawn guy, house cleaner unless you want to spend your two days a week there cleaning, chimney maintenance, gutters, the leak in the basement that always appears in heavy rain, the thermopane window that needs replacing because the seal broke,.... The list goes on. The time and money commitment this all involves leaves some new home buyers shocked. Renting an apartment and owning a home over a hundred miles away are two very different animals. Looking for return on investment is also very tricky. Buy a fixer-upper in an established area with strong sales, maybe smart. Buying an okay property in Columbia county and hoping the tide rises and your value goes up with it? Riskier. Glut of homes in many Berkshire areas and Catskills, lower demand than in years past in many areas, too. If a second home is for investment purposes, and it is part of a well-diversified investment portfolio, it could work. But is it is essentially tying up all savings and you aren't diversified, sounds like an odd way to bankroll your retirement. That's why an investment advisor should be consulted.

I'm no expert, but common sense tells me that if you are in a rent controlled apt or a stabilized one with a clear window before it breaks through to market rates, let's say 6-7 years, the country house is a valid angle. You could carry a mortgage, get a tax right off, build equity etc and probably get a better deal as prices are coming down faster outside the city than in Manhattan. Being at the whim of Manhattan landlords and their rent increases will always put you in a vulnerable situation, particularly if you don't get rich as quickly as expected.

Buying your "second home first" is really common, especially given the high prices in the city. There's usually one or two stories a year in the real estate press, here's a link to one from the Daily News:

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2007/03/19/2007-03-19_buying_a_second_home_first.html

However, the expenses and projects really do just keep coming, which requires money and time. Guess how fun it is to tell your boss, "I need a day off, there's a leak at the country house."

Having done an $11K driveway, a $6500 roof (two years after the inspector told me it would be fine for another ten years) and a $20K post-flood basement gut, I'd say it's not for the faint of heart.

Plus, if you are lucky enough to catch an area on the upswing (like I did) the local governments figure it out, and your property taxes rise A LOT.

In the past seven years, I think my taxes in the city have been roughly flat, while at the beach they've jumped from $5400 a year to $9000.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

can anyone suggest areas that are on the water, (not the hamptons, as that is unaffordable), that are not too far from the city, and where prices have come down.
thanks

Consider looking in Bucks County, Pa. About one and a half hours outside of Manhattan - beautiful area. My advice regarding a country house is to think small - I purchaed 12 acres and 9000 sq. ft. and regret it . It is a whole lot of upkeep that distracts you from the whole purpose of a country house - which is to relax. Even if you hire people to do it all, you still have to manage them and usually these types are very unreliable. I can relate totally to front_porch - the projects do just keep coming and all of them require cash. Try to find a small property with some privacy in an area you really like - forget about the place that will "wow" your friends.

Any thoughts on Jersey Shore?

If you live in Manhattan, Jersey shore is tough to take. Just a different mind set and mentality. Many parts are also VERY commecial and I find it hard to relax there. Having said that I hear that there are some bargains to be had in that area right now.

"Just tell them "the Weasel" sent you!"

Ah, weasel, long time no hear! You still owe us all that apology for claiming that the Case-Shiller Index had oodles to say about "prime Manhattan real estate."

And let's not forget your Idiot's Thread: DOW 11,000!

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/2651-where-are-all-the-idiots-who-made-the-2007-doomsday-predictions

"where are all the idiots who made the 2007 doomsday predictions?!?"

malraux
about 6 months ago
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Remember?

Dow below 11,000 by the end of 2007!!

Housing market down 20%! - no - 30%! - no - 40%! - no - MORE! - by the end of 2007!!!

The subprime/Alt-A debacle would tank the Manhattan real estate market FOR SURE in 2007!!

A bad bonus season would tank the Manhattan real estate market FOR SURE in 2007!!

High inventory would tank the Manhattan real estate market FOR SURE in 2007!!

Manhattan real estate sellinmg for fifty cents on the dollar by 1 January 2008!

It was ALL GONNA CRASH by the end of 2007!!!

"I purchaed 12 acres and 9000 sq. ft"

Holy shit stealth1, that's a lot of house. Have you seen all the rooms yet? It stresses me out just thinking about furnishing never mind mowing the lawn.