Visited two more this evening.
110 West 86th Street, #11A
↓ $1,950,000; CC $1278 RET $573
Condo, 3 beds 2 baths; No sq.ft. stated
URL: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/252607-condo-110-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-manhattan
Traffic: I was the third visitor, near the end. Another couple followed me in.
I'm not sure whether this apartment was always a 3BR. The longest bedroom may have originally been an entertaining space; if that's the case, most of the "A" line seems to have been similarly converted to 3BRs, leaving a decent-sized (but windowless) dining area with a built-in hutch, between the small entry hall and the open kitchen.
The living room is long and rather narrow; built-ins along one wall make it even narrower. On the plus side, the bedrooms are pretty generous, though closet space is tight.
Most of the windows face 86th Street, so light is good despite looking north. Overall, the apartment is in very good, move-in condition, and there's nothing to particularly like or dislike about it. It's funny that the listing starts, "This extraordinary three bedroom pre-war condo..." Extraordinary it isn't. Functional and comfortable it is.
The owners bought in early 2006 for $1.61MM. Here's some red meat for the rent vs. buy mathematicians. You can buy this snug 3BR for $1.95MM, or you can rent a virtually identical apartment (not sure of the floor) for $7500/month:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/377863-condo-110-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-manhattan.
To my eye, the rental looks a bit nicer. Anyway, the rental has been cut three times in six weeks, from $10K, and it's still available. At $7500, the "rule of 15" says $1.35MM. To quote a great Sicilian thinker, soon we shall find out who is right, and who is dead.
************
240 West 102nd Street, #33
↓ $1,795,000; mt. $1447
3 beds 2 baths; No sq.ft. stated (#63 is stated as 1800 by Elliman)
Traffic: Unknown. I arrived late (the OH times were wrong on the Corcoran site and Streeteasy); the doorman let me in.
I must say I was pleasantly surprised here. My sister used to live across the street, as did my cousin, so I have walked down this street often. I never gave 240 a second look. The whole block - especially the south side - is pretty shabby, even after years of gentrification. But the listing for #63 - and its various price cuts - had caught my eye. Things got more interesting when #33 went on the market a couple of weeks ago, prompting a further $200K reduction on #63, matching #33 at $1.795MM.
So I figured, with a price war brewing, #33 was worth a look, and sure enough it was. The broker had already left, but the doorman let me in and we walked through together. The third floor hallway is much nicer than the lobby, and the apartment is nicer still, with lots of attractive original woodwork and faithful, high-quality renovations.
I think the original layout would be called a Victorian 7. If there was once a maid's room, it is now part of the kitchen. As you would expect, the bedrooms adjoin a long gallery that leads to the public spaces at the front (Broadway) end of the apartment. That means the two rear bedrooms are quiet, but it also means they face a narrow airshaft, so they are dark and require closed shades for privacy. The smallish master has an en suite bath. There is also a hall bath. The eat-in kitchen is stylish and functional. No view, but otherwise excellent.
The public spaces are handsome and, considering that the LR sits on the corner of 102nd and Broadway, surprisingly quiet (due, I think, to good windows and some blank noise from the air conditioners). The big third BR must have been a parlor or DR at some point, because it adjoins the living room though a passage that features both french and pocket doors (odd, but not conspicuous and sort of cute); that BR also communicates with the entry gallery through a standard door.
The doorman seemed like a very nice guy. He's been in the building for 18 years, so he's seen a lot of changes. Even with the recent ascent of the neighborhood, however, this block is a bit of a laggard; so this one might have to come down a bit to sell in a slow market. For a buyer who doesn't mind a bit of grit, though, these dueling units seem like much better value than the similar stuff Corcoran is selling at 314 West 100th.
[less]
Yikes, the black arrow in the first review is a mistake too. Another original price. Serves me right for using yesterday's reviews as a template.
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Response by Jerkstore
over 17 years ago
Posts: 474
Member since: Feb 2007
Oh, there'll be Little Black Arrows soon enough.... Thanks again, W81st.
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Response by West81st
over 17 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Jerkstore: Freudian typo, maybe.
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Response by West81st
over 17 years ago
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Couple of additional notes on 110 West 86th Street:
#10A closed in April for $1.875MM. It was only on the market for nine days in January before a buyer hit the asking price. See http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/165233-condo-110-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-manhattan So from a comp perspective, $1.95MM is a perfectly reasonable asking price for #11A. I think, though, that #11A might be destined for the "If you can demonstrate market movement with comps" thread, if the rental listing it's competing with is any indication of the market.
Also, there's some material here for the square footage mavens. #10A was listed as 1400 sq.ft., which doesn't seem to have deterred the buyers. The listing for #11A says 1500. The rental is listed as 1600. To my eye, the footprint of all three is the same, and it's a shade over 1300. 1400 is probably a fair number, given the measurement conventions of the market. The higher numbers are a mystery to me.
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Response by joepa
over 17 years ago
Posts: 278
Member since: Mar 2008
West - you should really think about doing some sort of Zagat-like real estate column/periodical analyzing the current properties on the market. Your descriptions and insight are both entertaining and eloquent. You could make a bundle and I think there is niche out there. I know if I was in the market I would buy it every week (not to mention all the brokerage firms, developers that would want to advertise in it). Buyers could pick up your weekly magazine see featured listings and it would help them decide (from an objective viewpoint rather than the broker's viewpoint) whether the property is worth seeing and what the general perception of that property is. You can even use Zagat like ratings for Location/Layout/Condition/Value, etc. Of course, you'll need others to help you research all the properties and do write ups - ahem ahem - I could be interested.
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Response by Jerkstore
over 17 years ago
Posts: 474
Member since: Feb 2007
Agree! Talk to Streeteasy and create a branded e-newsletter, with you as the mystery/Phyllis Richman-esque reviewer. The differentiator is the impartial, evocative writing.
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Response by West81st
over 17 years ago
Posts: 5564
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I'd be up for it if Steeteasy wanted to host it. Thanks!
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Response by walterh7
over 17 years ago
Posts: 383
Member since: Dec 2006
Given W81st's critical eye, I doubt any broker would let them near a listing. Why subject yourself to open criticism? What is to be gained? Right now brokers are looking for that one buyer. It only takes one.
Heck, I'd subscribe 'cause it sure would save me time, but I believe the industry would be obstructionists.
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Response by joepa
over 17 years ago
Posts: 278
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And what broker would know who West is? It's not like West is going to open houses saying, "hi, I'm West, can I critique this property" Also - most open houses people just walk in, it's not like there's a bouncer at the door. Nonetheless, I actually think most brokers would be okay with it.
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Response by KISS
over 17 years ago
Posts: 303
Member since: Mar 2008
We need a West81 for downtown hoods. West81, maybe we can convince you to look in WV, Tribeca, etc? I hear they have very good schools.
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Response by bela
over 17 years ago
Posts: 183
Member since: Jul 2008
i would love it and i hope west81st would stay on west side
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Response by bugelrex
over 17 years ago
Posts: 499
Member since: Apr 2007
West81, you should start a side business. I think there is good demand to bring along someone who has a good eye and no bias to an open house. Finding a broker to give u an honest opinion is hard to come by given their commission.
However, given the amount of time you would end up spending.. its probably not worth your time as I'm sure you are very well employed
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Response by dmf13
over 17 years ago
Posts: 150
Member since: Feb 2008
West 81st, At the very least, a blog with your insights--For example, I've gleaned from your comments a hierarchy of desireable buildings on UWS. For example 230 cpw over 225 cpw (211 over thenm both) And that you like 110 RSD, but not 140. WOuld you considet posting a list of buildings with their pros and cons?-That alone would be invaluable.
THanks,
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Response by NYRENewbie
over 17 years ago
Posts: 591
Member since: Mar 2008
Streeteasy, give West81st his own report. He already has a loyal fan base!
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Response by drdrd
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1905
Member since: Apr 2007
He? Funny, I think she's a she. Hmmm...........
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Response by West81st
over 17 years ago
Posts: 5564
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Hi, all. Sorry I haven't been in touch - I'm on the road until tomorrow night, so no Sunday open houses for me. :0(
Lots of food for thought here. I'll approach our hosts to see what fits in with Streeteasy's business model. Thanks for the advice and encouragement!
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Response by callidus
over 17 years ago
Posts: 18
Member since: May 2008
I second (or third) the set of compliments on West81st's commentaries. They are insightful, informative and thankfully free of the emotion that seems to plague most posts. Keep it up!
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Response by Rhino86
over 17 years ago
Posts: 4925
Member since: Sep 2006
I am not sure that the rule of 15 ever really applied in Manhattan did it? It's also a function of prevailing interest rates. You'd need double digit interest rates to drive Manhattan purchase prices down to 15x rentals. I looked at condo studios in the late 90s that were $150k or so, $1350 rentals...much higher interest rates then.
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Response by Rhino86
over 17 years ago
Posts: 4925
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PS: The market is softer than it was in January... And yes its funny when people contradict square feet quoted in earlier sales of the same footprint..its not as though the earlier sellers undercut their size.
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Response by EddieWilson
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1112
Member since: Feb 2008
> Traffic: I was the third visitor, near the end. Another couple followed me in.
Sorry, that downward arrow on #33 is a typo. It's a recent listing, and that's the original price. Here's the link:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/319848-coop-240-west-102nd-street-manhattan-valley-manhattan
And here's the competition:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/155661-coop-240-west-102nd-street-manhattan-valley-manhattan
Yikes, the black arrow in the first review is a mistake too. Another original price. Serves me right for using yesterday's reviews as a template.
Oh, there'll be Little Black Arrows soon enough.... Thanks again, W81st.
Jerkstore: Freudian typo, maybe.
Couple of additional notes on 110 West 86th Street:
#10A closed in April for $1.875MM. It was only on the market for nine days in January before a buyer hit the asking price. See http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/165233-condo-110-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-manhattan So from a comp perspective, $1.95MM is a perfectly reasonable asking price for #11A. I think, though, that #11A might be destined for the "If you can demonstrate market movement with comps" thread, if the rental listing it's competing with is any indication of the market.
Also, there's some material here for the square footage mavens. #10A was listed as 1400 sq.ft., which doesn't seem to have deterred the buyers. The listing for #11A says 1500. The rental is listed as 1600. To my eye, the footprint of all three is the same, and it's a shade over 1300. 1400 is probably a fair number, given the measurement conventions of the market. The higher numbers are a mystery to me.
West - you should really think about doing some sort of Zagat-like real estate column/periodical analyzing the current properties on the market. Your descriptions and insight are both entertaining and eloquent. You could make a bundle and I think there is niche out there. I know if I was in the market I would buy it every week (not to mention all the brokerage firms, developers that would want to advertise in it). Buyers could pick up your weekly magazine see featured listings and it would help them decide (from an objective viewpoint rather than the broker's viewpoint) whether the property is worth seeing and what the general perception of that property is. You can even use Zagat like ratings for Location/Layout/Condition/Value, etc. Of course, you'll need others to help you research all the properties and do write ups - ahem ahem - I could be interested.
Agree! Talk to Streeteasy and create a branded e-newsletter, with you as the mystery/Phyllis Richman-esque reviewer. The differentiator is the impartial, evocative writing.
I'd be up for it if Steeteasy wanted to host it. Thanks!
Given W81st's critical eye, I doubt any broker would let them near a listing. Why subject yourself to open criticism? What is to be gained? Right now brokers are looking for that one buyer. It only takes one.
Heck, I'd subscribe 'cause it sure would save me time, but I believe the industry would be obstructionists.
And what broker would know who West is? It's not like West is going to open houses saying, "hi, I'm West, can I critique this property" Also - most open houses people just walk in, it's not like there's a bouncer at the door. Nonetheless, I actually think most brokers would be okay with it.
We need a West81 for downtown hoods. West81, maybe we can convince you to look in WV, Tribeca, etc? I hear they have very good schools.
i would love it and i hope west81st would stay on west side
West81, you should start a side business. I think there is good demand to bring along someone who has a good eye and no bias to an open house. Finding a broker to give u an honest opinion is hard to come by given their commission.
However, given the amount of time you would end up spending.. its probably not worth your time as I'm sure you are very well employed
West 81st, At the very least, a blog with your insights--For example, I've gleaned from your comments a hierarchy of desireable buildings on UWS. For example 230 cpw over 225 cpw (211 over thenm both) And that you like 110 RSD, but not 140. WOuld you considet posting a list of buildings with their pros and cons?-That alone would be invaluable.
THanks,
Streeteasy, give West81st his own report. He already has a loyal fan base!
He? Funny, I think she's a she. Hmmm...........
Hi, all. Sorry I haven't been in touch - I'm on the road until tomorrow night, so no Sunday open houses for me. :0(
Lots of food for thought here. I'll approach our hosts to see what fits in with Streeteasy's business model. Thanks for the advice and encouragement!
I second (or third) the set of compliments on West81st's commentaries. They are insightful, informative and thankfully free of the emotion that seems to plague most posts. Keep it up!
I am not sure that the rule of 15 ever really applied in Manhattan did it? It's also a function of prevailing interest rates. You'd need double digit interest rates to drive Manhattan purchase prices down to 15x rentals. I looked at condo studios in the late 90s that were $150k or so, $1350 rentals...much higher interest rates then.
PS: The market is softer than it was in January... And yes its funny when people contradict square feet quoted in earlier sales of the same footprint..its not as though the earlier sellers undercut their size.
> Traffic: I was the third visitor, near the end. Another couple followed me in.
Seems like its a week for crickets...